Anti-NA Venom II
Evolving Addict
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Anti-NA Venom II
I'm finding it really strange how, as my mom would say, "People throw a rock and then hide their hands." She'd also say, "If you let a person talk long enough, they'll tell on themselves every time." Ahhh...the wisdom of elders.
I mean, there are those here at SR who will whine about the use of certain signatures and claim that said signatures are anti-AA, but turn around and throw darts at NA in almost every post they make. They also claim to not be an "elitist" but consistently offer up comparisons of how their program (AA) is better than NA.
I, for one, do not have to mention AA (or any other fellowship) at all in order to make a point about NA. Comparisons and AA put-downs aren't needed for me to be pro-NA. As an NA member who has found recovery in the program and fellowship of NA, I find this sort of subtle (and sometimes, overt) NA-bashing very distasteful and unneccessary.
Here are a few points I'd like to address in this forum because I didn't want to respond to them in the forum in which they were asserted:
[1] In the NA 12 Traditions, where it says, "The Twelve Traditions of NA are not negotiable," the words "not negotiable" are not written in bold OR capitalized letters. It is my understanding that this phrase means that the 12 Traditions of NA shouldn't be ignored or avoided. I also interpret the phrase to mean that the traditions say what they mean and mean what they say. They should not be passed over or not considered. They were created for a reason (to assist the fellowship in avoiding problems). And just like other fellowships, NA's Traditions do not eliminate the need to "face difficulties as they arise."
[2] NA does not "demand" anything of anyone...not even the use of what is called "NA Language." The "Clarity Statement" that is often read in groups throughout the NA fellowship is a suggestion, not a demand or command. Many of the critics apparently overlook the ending that says, "This statement is offered in the spirit of NA unity and not meant to rule, censor or dictate your behavior." I guess it's easy to miss the part in Tradition One that says, "No one can revoke our membership or make us do anything that we do not choose to do," eh?
[3] Recovery in NA is not about staying "sick and suffering." Just because we, in NA, don't go around referring to ourselves as "recovered" doesn't mean we live in fear or are constantly looking over our backs anticipating a relapse. It has been my experience to observe that, regardless of which program one claims, no one is exempt. If being "recovered" (or claiming it) meant lifelong protection against relapse, none of those who claimed it would have...but many did. That isn't anti-AA,NA,CA etc.. gibberish, it's a fact. Relapse is a reality - it can and does happen, NO MATTER HOW LONG a person has been abstinent. To assert that referring to oneself as "recovering" is equivalent to perpetual sickness and suffering is not only anti-NA, it's illustrative of minimal understanding of the NA program. Nowhere in NA literature does it state that our disease is anywhere doing push-ups, yet NA does say that we are never cured and we do recover.
I don't have to be anti-AA to be pro-NA, but I guess some folks have to be anti-NA to demonstrate how "pro" they are of their own respective programs. What I see is difference, not inferiority or superiority.
TFLMS,
GarryW
I mean, there are those here at SR who will whine about the use of certain signatures and claim that said signatures are anti-AA, but turn around and throw darts at NA in almost every post they make. They also claim to not be an "elitist" but consistently offer up comparisons of how their program (AA) is better than NA.
I, for one, do not have to mention AA (or any other fellowship) at all in order to make a point about NA. Comparisons and AA put-downs aren't needed for me to be pro-NA. As an NA member who has found recovery in the program and fellowship of NA, I find this sort of subtle (and sometimes, overt) NA-bashing very distasteful and unneccessary.
Here are a few points I'd like to address in this forum because I didn't want to respond to them in the forum in which they were asserted:
[1] In the NA 12 Traditions, where it says, "The Twelve Traditions of NA are not negotiable," the words "not negotiable" are not written in bold OR capitalized letters. It is my understanding that this phrase means that the 12 Traditions of NA shouldn't be ignored or avoided. I also interpret the phrase to mean that the traditions say what they mean and mean what they say. They should not be passed over or not considered. They were created for a reason (to assist the fellowship in avoiding problems). And just like other fellowships, NA's Traditions do not eliminate the need to "face difficulties as they arise."
[2] NA does not "demand" anything of anyone...not even the use of what is called "NA Language." The "Clarity Statement" that is often read in groups throughout the NA fellowship is a suggestion, not a demand or command. Many of the critics apparently overlook the ending that says, "This statement is offered in the spirit of NA unity and not meant to rule, censor or dictate your behavior." I guess it's easy to miss the part in Tradition One that says, "No one can revoke our membership or make us do anything that we do not choose to do," eh?
[3] Recovery in NA is not about staying "sick and suffering." Just because we, in NA, don't go around referring to ourselves as "recovered" doesn't mean we live in fear or are constantly looking over our backs anticipating a relapse. It has been my experience to observe that, regardless of which program one claims, no one is exempt. If being "recovered" (or claiming it) meant lifelong protection against relapse, none of those who claimed it would have...but many did. That isn't anti-AA,NA,CA etc.. gibberish, it's a fact. Relapse is a reality - it can and does happen, NO MATTER HOW LONG a person has been abstinent. To assert that referring to oneself as "recovering" is equivalent to perpetual sickness and suffering is not only anti-NA, it's illustrative of minimal understanding of the NA program. Nowhere in NA literature does it state that our disease is anywhere doing push-ups, yet NA does say that we are never cured and we do recover.
I don't have to be anti-AA to be pro-NA, but I guess some folks have to be anti-NA to demonstrate how "pro" they are of their own respective programs. What I see is difference, not inferiority or superiority.
TFLMS,
GarryW
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Feel better now? :ghug2
I understand. It frustrates the hell outta me sometimes. But the "anti" comments aren't really a reflection on NA. They're a reflection of the person making them.
I understand. It frustrates the hell outta me sometimes. But the "anti" comments aren't really a reflection on NA. They're a reflection of the person making them.
Don't get undies in a bunch
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Shore MA
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AA has been around for years. NA has been around for a few years as well.
People have talked ill will about them both for years before any of us ever knew about either group.
AA and NA did ok without us trying to defend them. As long as we keep our own side of the street clean... anyone who wants to speak ill of another or a group will see the truth one day by our example. I personally see no need to defend either group past telling another what the group has done for me.
My E S & H is the only defense that is needed. As I share my story, people will accept it or reject it. My job is done.
People have talked ill will about them both for years before any of us ever knew about either group.
AA and NA did ok without us trying to defend them. As long as we keep our own side of the street clean... anyone who wants to speak ill of another or a group will see the truth one day by our example. I personally see no need to defend either group past telling another what the group has done for me.
My E S & H is the only defense that is needed. As I share my story, people will accept it or reject it. My job is done.
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Well, for what it’s worth from this AA’er, to me the term recovered relates to recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body today, or more precisely, right now. I don’t view recovered and relapse as being mutually exclusive. One who is recovered can still relapse if they let up on their spiritual program of recovery because what we really have is a daily reprieve…
I’m not certain who you feel is attacking NA, but I haven’t seen anyone that I believe is attacking NA. I do believe that some AA members are upset about the treatment center mentality that espouses that the diseases and programs are the same when they clearly are not. These members (me included) believe these are two different but similar fellowships and programs. They are sister fellowships so to speak. I think we work in conjunction with each other.
For example, I can help a heroin addict temporarily even though I have never been addicted to heroin. I can help him to understand the nature of the 12 Steps, perhaps help him through a rough spot until I can get him in touch with NA, but I would not want to sponsor a heroin addict that was not alcoholic. Not because I think any less of him, but because I don’t know the ins and outs of heroin addiction. So, I feel I would be doing him a disservice.
That’s just my POV. Don’t know why I posted this really. Just up, reading, don’t feel there need be any animosity between AA & NA, and wanted to share my thoughts I guess.
I’m not certain who you feel is attacking NA, but I haven’t seen anyone that I believe is attacking NA. I do believe that some AA members are upset about the treatment center mentality that espouses that the diseases and programs are the same when they clearly are not. These members (me included) believe these are two different but similar fellowships and programs. They are sister fellowships so to speak. I think we work in conjunction with each other.
For example, I can help a heroin addict temporarily even though I have never been addicted to heroin. I can help him to understand the nature of the 12 Steps, perhaps help him through a rough spot until I can get him in touch with NA, but I would not want to sponsor a heroin addict that was not alcoholic. Not because I think any less of him, but because I don’t know the ins and outs of heroin addiction. So, I feel I would be doing him a disservice.
That’s just my POV. Don’t know why I posted this really. Just up, reading, don’t feel there need be any animosity between AA & NA, and wanted to share my thoughts I guess.
Evolving Addict
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Best & Barto,
I've been coming here for over a year now, and I've learned a lot from you guys. I respect your views and appreciate your ES&H. I agree that our fellowships have been around long before us and they need no defense. I'm sure I probably came off like I'm defending, but that really wasn't my intention. I just wanted to address some stuff that I recently read in another forum. I mean, if someone else can put forth their point of view, so can I. In NA literature it says, "NA can survive without us, but we cant survive without NA," or something like that. What I found important was that no one in that forum spoke up and challenged what was said. My ES&H includes what I've learned, and my experience doesn't match what was asserted.
Barto, although you may not see the things I addressed as attacks, but I do. To misrepresent NA in such a negative light can't be taken as anything else, IMO. What about the newcomer that may read that garbage? And if someone is upset with the way the treatment industry is miseducating potential members and new members, they should point the finger in that direction instead of saying NA is this way or that way. And once or twice before, we've shared with one another about terminology and semantics in recovery - AA and NA are different, but very similar. The key is understanding instead of trying to be understood (for me).
I've been coming here for over a year now, and I've learned a lot from you guys. I respect your views and appreciate your ES&H. I agree that our fellowships have been around long before us and they need no defense. I'm sure I probably came off like I'm defending, but that really wasn't my intention. I just wanted to address some stuff that I recently read in another forum. I mean, if someone else can put forth their point of view, so can I. In NA literature it says, "NA can survive without us, but we cant survive without NA," or something like that. What I found important was that no one in that forum spoke up and challenged what was said. My ES&H includes what I've learned, and my experience doesn't match what was asserted.
Barto, although you may not see the things I addressed as attacks, but I do. To misrepresent NA in such a negative light can't be taken as anything else, IMO. What about the newcomer that may read that garbage? And if someone is upset with the way the treatment industry is miseducating potential members and new members, they should point the finger in that direction instead of saying NA is this way or that way. And once or twice before, we've shared with one another about terminology and semantics in recovery - AA and NA are different, but very similar. The key is understanding instead of trying to be understood (for me).
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Join Date: Apr 2008
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I respect NA, AA, CA, GA, CODA, afkdl;A, RationalRecovery, Moderation Management, Dialectal Behavioral Therapy, Cognitive Behavior Therapy, Treatment Centers, Religion, Psychiatry and medical attention. All of these programs have worked for someone somewhere. I am in no place to rank or rate any of these programs, it is up to the individual seeking help to find what works for them.
As a member of NA, I get frustrated by programs and people that denounce 12-Step programs. There seems to be this large group of people, only on the internet, that have somehow been wronged by a Fellowship and now they have to tell the world what a scam it is and why it will hurt them. I hear these other programs have an opinion about our Fellowship, and I take solace in the fact that we have no opinion on them. We neither endorse or oppose any outside organization. We are not in competition, and it seems that we are sometimes drawn into a fight. 12-Step recovery fellowships have been growing, with more and more people finding recovery in our rooms. That doesn't work for everyone, and that is ok too.
Look, whatever someone needs to do to help them grow, so be it. If someone needs to talk **** about a Fellowship that has saved lives, well, I hope they find what it is they are looking for.
The NA World Service Conference is being held this week in California, with delegates from all over the world in attendance. One of the issues discussed was how to get H&I into nursing homes. Our members are growing old.
As a member of NA, I get frustrated by programs and people that denounce 12-Step programs. There seems to be this large group of people, only on the internet, that have somehow been wronged by a Fellowship and now they have to tell the world what a scam it is and why it will hurt them. I hear these other programs have an opinion about our Fellowship, and I take solace in the fact that we have no opinion on them. We neither endorse or oppose any outside organization. We are not in competition, and it seems that we are sometimes drawn into a fight. 12-Step recovery fellowships have been growing, with more and more people finding recovery in our rooms. That doesn't work for everyone, and that is ok too.
Look, whatever someone needs to do to help them grow, so be it. If someone needs to talk **** about a Fellowship that has saved lives, well, I hope they find what it is they are looking for.
The NA World Service Conference is being held this week in California, with delegates from all over the world in attendance. One of the issues discussed was how to get H&I into nursing homes. Our members are growing old.
Evolving Addict
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The NA World Service Conference is being held this week in California, with delegates from all over the world in attendance. One of the issues discussed was how to get H&I into nursing homes. Our members are growing old.
I guess we do recover in NA, eh?
same planet...different world
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We are not in competition, and it seems that we are sometimes drawn into a fight.
embroider it -frame it - and stick it to the fridge!
Well said indeed, Bryant !
Garry -
I am also not aware of the exact thread you're talking about but what you have written here really resonated with me as well.
Thanks for this thread.
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CODA, give me an F’n break man. Nah, just kidding! 
I have nothing against treatment centers either except that, as a rule, I have learned they know little about AA, yet they send newly detoxed people out to AA even though these people may not be alcoholic – and they tell them that we deal with drug addiction in addition to alcoholism which is false.
Alcoholics Anonymous is for alcoholics, hence the name. It is okay that an alcoholic be dually addicted (like I was), but the person must have a drinking problem to become a member of AA. (How else can one have a desire to stop drinking if one has no problem?)
This is the way AA has chosen to go since first confronted with the drug addiction issue in the 1950’s. We advocate singleness of purpose. We believe no one can help another alcoholic like an alcoholic can, just as no one can help a heroin addict better than another heroin addict. I know NA deals with addiction to drugs across the board, and that’s cool; but it is not the way AA has chosen to go. This is why, long ago, AA freely gave to other groups the right to use its copy-righted 12 Steps.
I know you already know this Gary, but I’m just putting it out there for those who may not so that they understand it has nothing to do with alcoholics feeling better than addicts or alcoholics not liking addicts.
I can’t speak for anyone else, so I won’t. Why don’t you PM this person? If it is the man I am thinking about, he is a good man, and I’m sure he doesn’t have any animosity toward NA.
I have nothing against treatment centers either except that, as a rule, I have learned they know little about AA, yet they send newly detoxed people out to AA even though these people may not be alcoholic – and they tell them that we deal with drug addiction in addition to alcoholism which is false. Alcoholics Anonymous is for alcoholics, hence the name. It is okay that an alcoholic be dually addicted (like I was), but the person must have a drinking problem to become a member of AA. (How else can one have a desire to stop drinking if one has no problem?)
This is the way AA has chosen to go since first confronted with the drug addiction issue in the 1950’s. We advocate singleness of purpose. We believe no one can help another alcoholic like an alcoholic can, just as no one can help a heroin addict better than another heroin addict. I know NA deals with addiction to drugs across the board, and that’s cool; but it is not the way AA has chosen to go. This is why, long ago, AA freely gave to other groups the right to use its copy-righted 12 Steps.
I know you already know this Gary, but I’m just putting it out there for those who may not so that they understand it has nothing to do with alcoholics feeling better than addicts or alcoholics not liking addicts.
I can’t speak for anyone else, so I won’t. Why don’t you PM this person? If it is the man I am thinking about, he is a good man, and I’m sure he doesn’t have any animosity toward NA.
*Grateful*
Join Date: Oct 2007
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what'd I miss??? :-)
"just as no one can help a heroin addict better than another heroin addict"
We are not interested in what or how much you used. page 9 what is the NA program
I know that the first time I tried the program of NA I thought I needed to find ppl who were just like me (what drug they used, the method used etc.) But as soon as I just let that go and accepted that it isn't about that, and that addicts have many things in common besides our drug of choice, I started being able to receive things from everyone! It has been really enlightening for me!
That is what a I love about the program of NA.
"just as no one can help a heroin addict better than another heroin addict"
We are not interested in what or how much you used. page 9 what is the NA program
I know that the first time I tried the program of NA I thought I needed to find ppl who were just like me (what drug they used, the method used etc.) But as soon as I just let that go and accepted that it isn't about that, and that addicts have many things in common besides our drug of choice, I started being able to receive things from everyone! It has been really enlightening for me!
That is what a I love about the program of NA.
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From the sound of it, some have not personally witnessed what Garry was talking about. Perhaps in some regions this doesn't occur so frequently. But I for one, can attest that it happens where *I* live and it happens OFTEN. I attended both fellowships in TN for 12 years before moving to KY, where I have been for the past 6 years. I have personally witnessed both treatment counselors AND AA members bash NA, make fun of NA, say there's no recovery at NA, that AA is better, that NA doesn't work steps, ad infinitum. I can hardly even mention on a recovery board about a problem I'm having at my NA group before some AA'er quickly suggests I change fellowships. Granted, the majority of people do not behave this way, but it does happen. It does vast amounts of harm, "warning" newcomers so that they never even consider NA for their recovery ("contempt prior to investigation"). Treatment graduates often go to AA and call themselves addicts, only to be rebuked and never go back, before they've even heard about NA. Many scenarios exist. It should never happen. NA and AA are both wonderful programs that should peacefully co-exist. The very results of these programs are enough to attest to their effectiveness without individual people trying to put down one fellowship to make their own look better.
Last edited by daydream; 05-02-2008 at 11:35 AM. Reason: spelling
Evolving Addict
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Originally Posted by Bryant633 
As a member of NA, I get frustrated by programs and people that denounce 12-Step programs. There seems to be this large group of people, only on the internet, that have somehow been wronged by a Fellowship and now they have to tell the world what a scam it is and why it will hurt them. I hear these other programs have an opinion about our Fellowship, and I take solace in the fact that we have no opinion on them. We neither endorse or oppose any outside organization. We are not in competition, and it seems that we are sometimes drawn into a fight. 12-Step recovery fellowships have been growing, with more and more people finding recovery in our rooms. That doesn't work for everyone, and that is ok too.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...esentment.html
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Recovery, Recovering, & Recovered...
I, for one, have been to in-patient alcohol treatment two times...once in 1974 and once in 1988. As the years went by the treatment centers did change to a more realistic idea of what recovery is...I feel that a treatment center is a drying out place after we detox and we learn different parts of our alcoholism and how it affected our life and also tools to help us keep sober.
My tools were the Twelve Steps of AA and they helped keep me sober as long as I incorporated them right into my daily life. We can get sober easier than we can stay sober.
For me that is where AA and the members of AA helped me. I had to do the work, walk the walk and talk the talk...in order to stay sober for ME. It has been almost 20 years and I am still sober and still in Alcohol Recovery. No matter how many years of sobriety I have...I am still one drink away from the end of my recovery and probably life.
I was always searching for ways to help me and for me to help others and didn't have enough time to argue which program is which and which is better. There are many ways a person can get sober and stay sober...what works for them is their choice. If a person has a dual dx then when at AA I would suggest talking about the problems with alcohol use...then when at NA I would suggest talking about the problems with drug use.
There is the specific saying a drug is a drug....true but some of us old timers didn't use drugs and speaking for myself, I don't understand the addiction of drugs other than it is just as hard to kick as alcohol is. Maybe even harder.
My brother is an addict and I just found this out this past month...he is 66 years old and I will be 68...he is detoxing off meth now but still drinking some for the withdrawals...it has been a horrible awakening for me to see what he has been through and what he still is going through. For some there is an easier softer way but is it any different than what someone else goes through? Some of us are sicker than others.
It takes what it takes and we are all different. We may work our programs in a simular way but what works for one person may not work for another. We are individuals and we have to find what works for us.
The very first step for me was wanting to be sober for MYSELF more than anything else in my life....it took me a lot of years to get there and figure that out.
We are all unique onto ourselves...we are a community of people that help people....
kelsh
My tools were the Twelve Steps of AA and they helped keep me sober as long as I incorporated them right into my daily life. We can get sober easier than we can stay sober.
For me that is where AA and the members of AA helped me. I had to do the work, walk the walk and talk the talk...in order to stay sober for ME. It has been almost 20 years and I am still sober and still in Alcohol Recovery. No matter how many years of sobriety I have...I am still one drink away from the end of my recovery and probably life.
I was always searching for ways to help me and for me to help others and didn't have enough time to argue which program is which and which is better. There are many ways a person can get sober and stay sober...what works for them is their choice. If a person has a dual dx then when at AA I would suggest talking about the problems with alcohol use...then when at NA I would suggest talking about the problems with drug use.
There is the specific saying a drug is a drug....true but some of us old timers didn't use drugs and speaking for myself, I don't understand the addiction of drugs other than it is just as hard to kick as alcohol is. Maybe even harder.
My brother is an addict and I just found this out this past month...he is 66 years old and I will be 68...he is detoxing off meth now but still drinking some for the withdrawals...it has been a horrible awakening for me to see what he has been through and what he still is going through. For some there is an easier softer way but is it any different than what someone else goes through? Some of us are sicker than others.
It takes what it takes and we are all different. We may work our programs in a simular way but what works for one person may not work for another. We are individuals and we have to find what works for us.
The very first step for me was wanting to be sober for MYSELF more than anything else in my life....it took me a lot of years to get there and figure that out.
We are all unique onto ourselves...we are a community of people that help people....
kelsh
Evolving Addict
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I introduce myself, in meetings, as a "grateful recovering addict" because I understand that I have a disease that has no cure and that my recovery is an ongoing process. I refer to that process as recovery.
But, if I were to talk about the things that are no longer a problem for me (like using drugs, hopelessness, desperation, malnutrition, mental anguish, etc...), I could easily say that I have "recovered" in these areas. Like Anvilhead, I consider myself a "former crackhead" and any of the things I once did or experienced that I no longer do or experience, I can speak of them in past-tense. No problem, no biggie.
One thing about NA is that we do not focus on a specifc substance. We have a disease called addiction that can manifest itself is many, many ways that have nothing to do with drugs. Since drugs are just a symptom of our disease, it would be inapproppriate for me to say that once that symptom is arrested I am recovered from the disease. My disease is 3-fold, and obsession, compulsion and self-centeredness is revealed to me on a regular basis - regardless of the fact that I haven't used a drug in almost 10 years!! I mean, when I have a cold and I experience the symptoms of a runny nose, watery eyes, sneezing, a fever and body ache...just because my nose stopped running doesn't mean I'm well.
For me, recovery in NA is about more than simple abstinence and I don't live in fear of using. Most days, the thought of using never crosses my mind. I've learned not to worry about tomorrow, because all I really have is today.
But, if I were to talk about the things that are no longer a problem for me (like using drugs, hopelessness, desperation, malnutrition, mental anguish, etc...), I could easily say that I have "recovered" in these areas. Like Anvilhead, I consider myself a "former crackhead" and any of the things I once did or experienced that I no longer do or experience, I can speak of them in past-tense. No problem, no biggie.
One thing about NA is that we do not focus on a specifc substance. We have a disease called addiction that can manifest itself is many, many ways that have nothing to do with drugs. Since drugs are just a symptom of our disease, it would be inapproppriate for me to say that once that symptom is arrested I am recovered from the disease. My disease is 3-fold, and obsession, compulsion and self-centeredness is revealed to me on a regular basis - regardless of the fact that I haven't used a drug in almost 10 years!! I mean, when I have a cold and I experience the symptoms of a runny nose, watery eyes, sneezing, a fever and body ache...just because my nose stopped running doesn't mean I'm well.
For me, recovery in NA is about more than simple abstinence and I don't live in fear of using. Most days, the thought of using never crosses my mind. I've learned not to worry about tomorrow, because all I really have is today.
*Grateful*
Join Date: Oct 2007
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"One thing about NA is that we do not focus on a specifc substance. We have a disease called addiction that can manifest itself is many, many ways that have nothing to do with drugs. Since drugs are just a symptom of our disease, it would be inapproppriate for me to say that once that symptom is arrested I am recovered from the disease. My disease is 3-fold, and obsession, compulsion and self-centeredness is revealed to me on a regular basis"
This is HUGELY important for everyone who is addict to know. I have been an addict for over 20 yrs and it is only in the past couple months I learned this truth. I honestly thought if I was clean from my DOC I was fine. NOT! I am an addict thru and thru and it pops up and rears its ugly head in all sorts of ways.....
This is HUGELY important for everyone who is addict to know. I have been an addict for over 20 yrs and it is only in the past couple months I learned this truth. I honestly thought if I was clean from my DOC I was fine. NOT! I am an addict thru and thru and it pops up and rears its ugly head in all sorts of ways.....
Evolving Addict
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Originally Posted by Sheila77
This is HUGELY important for everyone who is addict to know. I have been an addict for over 20 yrs and it is only in the past couple months I learned this truth. I honestly thought if I was clean from my DOC I was fine. NOT! I am an addict thru and thru and it pops up and rears its ugly head in all sorts of ways.....
Member
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Yes, this is so very important to understand and remember: addictive behaviors can show up in our lives in some many ways other than drugs. Obsessive-compulsive thinking and behavior is still with me today, even after many years of being clean. It is just part of who I am. The key for me is to get obsessive-compulsive about things that don't harm me or other people. No one ever died over 65 pairs of sneakers!
Evolving Addict
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Posts: 3,067
I agree, Rez. I once read a book called Positive Addictions, and it talked about how we addicts substitute pretty easily. The main thing I got from it was that we can channel our obsessive and compulsive ways towards things that aren't nearly as harmful as drugs.
What often drives me nuts is when someone outside of NA hears members referring to themselves as "sick and suffering" they immediately jump to the conclusion that they mean they haven't recovered from the so-called "seemingly hopeless state of mind and body" - when in reality, all they're saying is that they recognize an area (or two) in their life in which they are being obsessive, compulsive or self-centered.
I'd rather have too many sneakers that one bag of dope. I'm not cured, but I'm better than I ever was.
What often drives me nuts is when someone outside of NA hears members referring to themselves as "sick and suffering" they immediately jump to the conclusion that they mean they haven't recovered from the so-called "seemingly hopeless state of mind and body" - when in reality, all they're saying is that they recognize an area (or two) in their life in which they are being obsessive, compulsive or self-centered.
I'd rather have too many sneakers that one bag of dope. I'm not cured, but I'm better than I ever was.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12
I once heard in a meeting... "I'm sick, and in no danger of getting well anytime soon, and thank God".
From an outside perspective, I can see how this statement seems. "Didn't we come to NA to not be sick anymore?"
What the person who was sharing this was saying, based on their explanation, was that recovery is a process, and there really is no 'recovered'.
I have known many who have become recovered and then disappear. Some have died, but most simply disappear and who knows what has happened to them. I understand that recovery, specifically in NA, is a process. It's about becoming a better person, right? At some point do people say, "well, I'm a good enough person, no need to work on anything anymore." That was what I thought, months before I had a relapse that took me to the yet another bottom. I believe that there may actually be people who can come into our Program and find tools that suit their problem well enough that they don't need to be a part of a Fellowship or attend meetings to get the results they want. I pray that these people know, that if they need us, we are still here and welcome them back anytime, even if it is to tell us they made it without us.
Garry pointed me to a another thread from awhile back that got into the discussion of Program and Fellowship. Very simply, Program is the 12 Steps and specifically the spiritual principles behind them. Fellowship is the group of people we surround ourselves with to help us practice these principles. Anything that happens in NA beyond the 12 Steps and the spiritual principles behind them is the Fellowship. Our Program is completely safe; the Fellowship may not be.
I am in the United States, so everything must come with a warning of some kind, so here it is...
WARNING! People may let you down, use you, ridicule you, lie to you, cheat you, and beat you up. Become a part of a group of people at your own risk.
Now, if you're new, and that warning scares you, tell me about the group you were a part of while using. I know what you may be thinking, that NA is supposed to be a loving, caring place where we will take all your problems away. The thing is, we are all learning how to live. But we're doing it together.
From an outside perspective, I can see how this statement seems. "Didn't we come to NA to not be sick anymore?"
What the person who was sharing this was saying, based on their explanation, was that recovery is a process, and there really is no 'recovered'.
I have known many who have become recovered and then disappear. Some have died, but most simply disappear and who knows what has happened to them. I understand that recovery, specifically in NA, is a process. It's about becoming a better person, right? At some point do people say, "well, I'm a good enough person, no need to work on anything anymore." That was what I thought, months before I had a relapse that took me to the yet another bottom. I believe that there may actually be people who can come into our Program and find tools that suit their problem well enough that they don't need to be a part of a Fellowship or attend meetings to get the results they want. I pray that these people know, that if they need us, we are still here and welcome them back anytime, even if it is to tell us they made it without us.
Garry pointed me to a another thread from awhile back that got into the discussion of Program and Fellowship. Very simply, Program is the 12 Steps and specifically the spiritual principles behind them. Fellowship is the group of people we surround ourselves with to help us practice these principles. Anything that happens in NA beyond the 12 Steps and the spiritual principles behind them is the Fellowship. Our Program is completely safe; the Fellowship may not be.
I am in the United States, so everything must come with a warning of some kind, so here it is...
WARNING! People may let you down, use you, ridicule you, lie to you, cheat you, and beat you up. Become a part of a group of people at your own risk.
Now, if you're new, and that warning scares you, tell me about the group you were a part of while using. I know what you may be thinking, that NA is supposed to be a loving, caring place where we will take all your problems away. The thing is, we are all learning how to live. But we're doing it together.
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