Chrysalis123

I am confused about something. My soon to be X-AH has asked me to tell him how to be. In the past, when I was the sickest with codependency and enabling I would “tell him how to be”. He would occasionally behave like I wanted, but more than likely he would not, or the change would be short lived. I would then be heart broken, cry and get depressed and pull out my old codie tricks like pouting and withdrawal. Rinse and repeat….Then when he would do something rotten, like leave me alone to recover from surgery while he had an affair he would say, “Well, you never told me not to do ……”. In essence his behaviors were somehow my fault and I was always waiting for the next shoe to drop.

Now that I am inching toward a healthier way of being I question whether I should suggest to him how to be when he asks. The last time he asked (because I filed for divorce) I said I didn’t feel comfortable with that, and I wouldn’t consider telling a new person I just met how to be. I would spend time with them and if we seem to value and respect each other the relationship would continue. If not, the relationship would fade away. So, I said, “I can’t tell you how to be because that is your decision.” He then accused me of not trying hard enough and said that his friends all disapproved of me not telling him because in their eyes healthy people express their needs and desires.

Well, we are not healthy people. I have treated my self worse than I have ever treated anyone else. I have allowed myself to be conned and manipulated hundreds of times. I have had more promises broken than I can remember. I feel that if I did “tell” him how to be I would be taking away his responsibility for the relationship. Not to mention that I have been "telling" him what I need for the past 18 years, but he refused to listen. Now, I think he should figure it out for himself. But my guilt button has been activated….

Thoughts??

nowinsituation

Chrysilis- Mind if I piggy back on this issue with you. My (also soon-to-be-X) AH claims I should not be upset with him because "I've done everything you've asked me to". Maybe technically he has -- although I asked him to stop drinking and he did not -- but for arguments sake, even if he had "done everything I asked him to" -- for me that was still not enough. I have lived up to my end of the bargain by telling him how I feel and what I expect. However, I cannot tell him how to act in every situation. He needs to be what he is; and I need to decide if what he is is "enough" or "right" for me. If he is merely my puppet, doing exactly what I tell him to do; that will not make either one of us happy. But, I also still feel the guilt ??????

Barbara52

As I see it, it is not place to tell another adult what they should do, how they should act, etc.

It can be my place to tell them what my needs are in a relationship. For instance I can say "I need you to be honest and open in all things with me so that I can try to begin rebuilding trust in you." Or "I need you to stop drinking because your alcoholism is a problem for me in X ways."

Things like "don't have an affair" or "don't treat me with disrespect" for me are rather obvious requirementrs for a relationship and I would not feel the need to tell someone that is what they need to do.

ANGELINA243

Both him and his friends sound like an "active group of drunks" to me. I do say that with all sincerity/love because I am an alcoholic (in recovery). My best advice--don't tell him "how to be". You have told him before--with no success so far. It sounds like another way for him to keep you around for a little longer. It's strange really--the mind of an alcoholic--we don't want anyone telling us what to do/how to act (especially those closest to us). No one seems to understand us with the exception of our "so-called" friends (aka drinking buddies). He needs to focus on getting help for himself--which from the way it sounds--he doesn't want to stop just yet. You need to take care of you now--you have babysat him long enough. He is a grown man. If he really means business --great. I really hope everything works out, but it sounds like he is still trying to "control" the game to me.

laurie6781

My answer, and yes I have used it more than once:

"I don't know, I am not your mommy, you are a big boy now, figure it out for yourself."

And I walk away.

I have enough to do, just working on me, I cannot tell someone else what they should or should not do, lol

J M H O

Love and hugs,

P.S. Sounds like "Manipulation" on his part so being a good alkie then he can stay in denial and say its 'all your fault.'

Miss Pink

tell him to be how God wants him to be....that will confuse the stuffing outta him.

Let him figure it out on his own. Your days of puppet mastering are over!

Pajarito

Same problem here. I spent years trying to make my AH fit into my idea of what I had hoped he was- based on our years dating and first 2 or so years of marriage. Fast forward 12 years, adding alcohol into the mix and things have changed drastically. I kept trying to "find" the man I married. I've just now started to realize that it's not my job. My job is to take care of myself and to express my needs- but not "make" him into what I think he should be. He is who he is right now- whether I like it or not. I can't live with him the way he is- and looking back should not have continued to live with him years ago- but I wasn't ready to make such a huge move. I'm also trying to get stronger every day. Part of that means realizing when my buttons are being pushed- and boy do I have a lot. IMHO- he needs to figure out who he is. He's a grown man. All you can do is take charge of yourself and let him take care of his business.

LaTeeDa

One of the biggest AHA's I ever had was when my husband said to me "No matter what I do, it will never make you happy!" And I realized he was right. All those years I had been trying to find just the right mixture of other people and external circumstances that would finally make me happy. Once I figured out the only person who can make me happy is me, everything got a lot clearer.

L

Pajarito

I've heard this a lot too. It makes me wonder if he's right? I used to be happy with him. Maybe that's the difference- the word "make." I'm feeling confused today.

Barbara52

Happieness has to come from within oneself as I see it. You can enjoy being with another person, you can enjoy doing something, you can enjoy eating something. But nothing external can make me happy. Its my reaction to those people or things that makes me happy, not the people or things themselves.

Chrysalis123

Thank you so much for the responses and all the pearls of wisdom!

My relationship with XAH is twisted and I appreciate the reality check. He is a grown man and can make his own decisions. I cannot live with him anymore because his choices harm me and our kids. He doesn't have the basic relationship skills that most people take for granted in a relationship (such as call if you’re late, don’t have an affair, lying is always wrong even if the lie is an omission ) and those kinds of things drove me CRAZY, literally. When I would state a boundary he would say, “What the hell, do you think you are my mother?” So, basic respect is not present. I have enough to work on in myself and now that I realize that, I am having an easier time accepting what is and not going “unconscious” with denial. I am starting to feel peaceful about the decision to divorce and I do need to stay aware to my buttons being pushed because I can easily slip right back into denial or rage. I am beginning to detach from AH, but I still don't feel compassion for him and I'm hoping in time that will come.

The only person that can make me happy is me. I like that. But I feel like I am fighting so hard to crawl out of this hole I have found myself in. I'm trying to take it one day at a time and find some joy too, and I so appreciate this site and all the support!

nowinsituation

Paj - I'm with you and I am struggling with this ALOT! I get that my AH does not MAKE me happy or unhappy. I get that I am unhappy with him -- and those feelings are mine. I get that I have told him I am unhappy, and to the best of my understanding why I am unhappy. What I am not getting, is if I need to fix myself (and I don't disagree that I have alot of work to do); then once I get there it shouldn't matter what he does/doesn't do -- I should be able to be happy. So, maybe I should stay and work on myself and not put my kids, etc., through this divorce. But unless he also does major work changing, I know I would never be happy with him. I can't make him change (I get that). I don't think he will ever change. I cannot even think about going back without getting a big knot in my stomach. Somehow I am not connecting all the dots here???

Chrysalis123

Anvil,
Yes, he is my soon to X-AH. I filed for divorce a few months ago. My question revolved around the idea that, according to AH, I have not tried hard enough to work on the relationship and also my feelings of guilt in filing for divorce. He pleaded with me to tell him what to do, how to act in order to save the marriage. He then manipulated me by saying the comment about his friends disapproving and that I am not trying hard enough. He knows me so well and knows the people pleasing sickness I have and he once again pushed that button to get what he wants.

So, I had a bit of confusion between sharing my needs and wants versus being the puppet-master as someone put it. You are right, he goes right back to his old tricks. I am realizing for the first time that I have to take care of me, feelings are not facts, and nothing changes if nothing changes.

I am changing! 8

LaTeeDa

Another big AHA for me. Accepting someone as they are does not automatically mean I have to share my life with them. Seems so obvious now, but boy did it take me a long time to figure out!

Being confused is not a bad thing. For me it usually means I am on the verge of a breakthrough.

L

*edit* to add: It matters not whether HE thinks you have tried hard enough or whether HIS FRIENDS think you have tried hard enough. When you are done, you are done.

Chrysalis123

What I am not getting, is if I need to fix myself (and I don't disagree that I have alot of work to do); then once I get there it shouldn't matter what he does/doesn't do -- I should be able to be happy. So, maybe I should stay and work on myself and not put my kids, etc., through this divorce. But unless he also does major work changing, I know I would never be happy with him. I can't make him change (I get that). I don't think he will ever change. I cannot even think about going back without getting a big knot in my stomach. Somehow I am not connecting all the dots here???

I am struggling with this too. I am relying on my HP. I know that I am doing what needs to be done for a lot of reasons. I also know that if my AH decides to seek recovery and has obvious behavioral/emotional changes I am open to building a new relationship. (This is where I feel confused...should I tell him yet again he needs to seek help? Yet, who am I to even suggest that to another adult?) I am not waiting on AH though, as I have already waited 18 years. I will proceed with my life and my recovery. But, this is the hardest and most painful thing I have gone through in my life.

nowinsituation

LTD -- I was just thinking that -- that I am either on the verge of a breakthrough or a breakdown!!! I've had enough breakdowns lately, and I really think I am beginning to GET IT!!!

Chrysalis -- My AH pushes the same buttons. I still have to see him everyday when picking up my daughter, mail, etc., at the house. I moved out 2+ months ago and he has not tried one single time to talk to me about things since I left. He acts like everything is normal except that I don't live there anymore????? Last night he asked if I wanted to stay for dinner -- uh, no thanks. I am meeting with my attorney and plan to move forward with the divorce next week. He will be absolutely shocked (he is in huge denial) and I am expecting him to push all of those buttons that are being pushed for you -- accusing me of not trying hard enough. That, in the past, always pushed my guilt button. I am trying to prepare myself now so I don't fall apart and cave in.

Thank you everybody -- and please send more advice on this. It is helping me so much!

Pajarito

I hope we aren't hijacking this thread- I am realizing that accepting him for who he is doesn't mean I can live with him. I am so tired of trying so hard to change him- and I realize now how insane it was to think I could. I am letting him be who he is- that means not telling him what I think he needs to do- like work a program. He needs to come to his own realizations without my help or they end up meaning nothing. I gave him an ultimatum- go to treatment or leave. That was over a year ago- and he went to treatment- but boy did I find out later how angry he was that I "made" him go. It's so much easier to focus on what I am doing. I say easier- even though this time in my life is incredibly painful. I am seeing the positive results of addressing my issues, though, so it's worth it.

I also have gotten the line about not trying hard enough- which is crazy-making. I have been trying for years to make something work that just wasn't working- Why? Because it was so one-sided. There are 2 people in this relationship- one cannot make it work. Why was I trying so hard? I'm not altogether sure- that's what I am trying to figure out.

kj21

very good thread! I totally relate to the line about not feeling compassion for him. I am stuggling with this too. My ex calls me when he is down, tells me he has no friends to talk to, I am his best friend, it is so hard for him to do this alone. He claimes to be sober for 8 weeks, starts back to work in 2 weeks. I am struggling becouse i do not feel any sympathy for him, I think he is manipulating me every time he calls. I do not want to be that cold hearted b*tch. Is it possible to remain friends without giving them hope that you'll take them back?

denny57

I have compassion for the disease.

Chrysalis

From my perspective (8mths in Al Anon) I was always confused about the taking care of me regardless of whether the addict is using or not. That I should find happiness within etc. The one factor that never gets discussed at my meeeting is the "do I still love him?" factor. The point I want to make is that somewhere along the road to recovery I need to ask myself this question. Knowing the answer may not change whether I stay or go but I believe it is necessary, for me at least. I find it very hard to continue living in a compassionate way if there is no love left.

Question: If the addict needs to abstain from the substance in order to maintain sobriety. What or who do we need to stay away from in order to maintain our mental health?

Thanks,
CoDee