Validating yourself through others
Meg
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 22
Validating yourself through others
I have learned from several posts, books, websites, etc. that co-dependents often validate themselves through others although I don't necessarily find that true of myself. I am wondering though if that is true of most alcoholics and how to respond to that.
For instance, my mom asked for my support today. In a VERY calm manner (which is very hard for me-lol) I asked her what support looks like, what that means and if she could describe it for me. She couldn't put into words what she meant at all- partly because she is still drunk today but her one response (over and over) was "you think I am nothing" or "you think I am a piece of sh*t."
I told her over and over after those responses that I don't feel that way but on top of that I am done accepting her guilt trips. Is this a common trait of alcoholics and how do you deal with this?
For instance, my mom asked for my support today. In a VERY calm manner (which is very hard for me-lol) I asked her what support looks like, what that means and if she could describe it for me. She couldn't put into words what she meant at all- partly because she is still drunk today but her one response (over and over) was "you think I am nothing" or "you think I am a piece of sh*t."
I told her over and over after those responses that I don't feel that way but on top of that I am done accepting her guilt trips. Is this a common trait of alcoholics and how do you deal with this?
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Keepin' my side of the litterbox clean
Posts: 2,136
A common trait of alcoholics, in my opinion, is they aren't particularly rational. This is evident in your attempts to have a rational discussion with your mother while she was drunk.
The more important question, in your circumstance, is why are you trying to make her listen to you when she's under the influence? I'm more interested in why you keep repeating yourself to someone who doesn't get it. In fact, although it's a common trait of A's to be unreasonable while they are drinking, it is also a common trait of the codies (codependents) who are around them to keep trying to knock some sense into the addict's head. She kept telling you over and over that you think she is nothing and a piece of ****. YOU kept telling her over and over that you don't feel that way about her. So what was the point of that discussion? Did anyone come away from that with any sense they had been heard?
Sadly, you can't deal with them when they're actively addicted (for the most part). I learned this the hard way, having been married to two A's.
The more important question, in your circumstance, is why are you trying to make her listen to you when she's under the influence? I'm more interested in why you keep repeating yourself to someone who doesn't get it. In fact, although it's a common trait of A's to be unreasonable while they are drinking, it is also a common trait of the codies (codependents) who are around them to keep trying to knock some sense into the addict's head. She kept telling you over and over that you think she is nothing and a piece of ****. YOU kept telling her over and over that you don't feel that way about her. So what was the point of that discussion? Did anyone come away from that with any sense they had been heard?
Sadly, you can't deal with them when they're actively addicted (for the most part). I learned this the hard way, having been married to two A's.
Meg
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by prodigal 
A common trait of alcoholics, in my opinion, is they aren't particularly rational. This is evident in your attempts to have a rational discussion with your mother while she was drunk.
The more important question, in your circumstance, is why are you trying to make her listen to you when she's under the influence? I'm more interested in why you keep repeating yourself to someone who doesn't get it. In fact, although it's a common trait of A's to be unreasonable while they are drinking, it is also a common trait of the codies (codependents) who are around them to keep trying to knock some sense into the addict's head. She kept telling you over and over that you think she is nothing and a piece of ****. YOU kept telling her over and over that you don't feel that way about her. So what was the point of that discussion? Did anyone come away from that with any sense they had been heard?
Sadly, you can't deal with them when they're actively addicted (for the most part). I learned this the hard way, having been married to two A's.
The more important question, in your circumstance, is why are you trying to make her listen to you when she's under the influence? I'm more interested in why you keep repeating yourself to someone who doesn't get it. In fact, although it's a common trait of A's to be unreasonable while they are drinking, it is also a common trait of the codies (codependents) who are around them to keep trying to knock some sense into the addict's head. She kept telling you over and over that you think she is nothing and a piece of ****. YOU kept telling her over and over that you don't feel that way about her. So what was the point of that discussion? Did anyone come away from that with any sense they had been heard?
Sadly, you can't deal with them when they're actively addicted (for the most part). I learned this the hard way, having been married to two A's.
I guess I just always thought A's didn't particularly care what others thought of them but perhaps that is an untrue stereotype I have. I am not sure generalizations can be made for alcoholics as every one is different but then I think there are usually SOME similar characteristics. I am just trying to make some sense of her now defeated self-esteem, etc.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 477
She called while I was at work and stated she felt like drinking but didn't want to and was hoping I could call her to support her.
Is your mother attending AA, mc? I can understand why she would call you if she was trying to stop herself from drinking but if she was attending AA and had a sponsor she would contact the sponsor or other A contacts made at AA.
XABF tried to tell me when I broke things off and went no contact that he NEEDED me to help get him through his DUI court case and that I was abandoning him. Well, he has a lawyer and why should I have to "be there" for him when it was his choice to drink and drive that got him there? Oh....and while he was in jail after being arrested he told me he had been in rehab! Ummmm....there's a limit to my compassion.
I believe that when As try to get support from friends and family, the friends and family have to detach so as not to put themselves in the firing line of blame IF the A decides to drink again. Detaching means establishing boundaries for you. My boundary with XABF was no contact with him until he has worked a programme for at least a year.
ARL
Is your mother attending AA, mc? I can understand why she would call you if she was trying to stop herself from drinking but if she was attending AA and had a sponsor she would contact the sponsor or other A contacts made at AA.
XABF tried to tell me when I broke things off and went no contact that he NEEDED me to help get him through his DUI court case and that I was abandoning him. Well, he has a lawyer and why should I have to "be there" for him when it was his choice to drink and drive that got him there? Oh....and while he was in jail after being arrested he told me he had been in rehab! Ummmm....there's a limit to my compassion.
I believe that when As try to get support from friends and family, the friends and family have to detach so as not to put themselves in the firing line of blame IF the A decides to drink again. Detaching means establishing boundaries for you. My boundary with XABF was no contact with him until he has worked a programme for at least a year.
ARL
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Originally Posted by mcerra16
...I am just trying to make some sense of her now defeated self-esteem, etc...
I am an alkie as well as a codie, so I can tell you my experience from the "other side of the fence". Your mom does _not_ have defeated self-esteem. Not at all. Not even the smallest bit.Your mom is _drunk_.
Until she gets some kind of program of recovery, and been free of mood altering chemicals long enough for the brain to come out of the pickle jar any word that comes out of her mouth is just _drunk_.
Your mom is _drunk_.
It's really that simple. As long as you think _anything_ else about her she will continue to manipulate you and con you into ignoring the only issue that matters.
She's _drunk_.
Yeah, I know. I'm getting obnoxious repeating it over and over. I don't mean to be obnoxious. I'm just telling it the way I see it as an alkie. She's playing you, and you're letting her.
Hand your mom the phone number to the AA central office in your town. She wants "support", that's the number to call. She wants _anything_ at all, that's the number to call. You give her anything other than that number, and you're just extending the time it will take for her to sober up. That's the game I played with _my_ enablers, and it worked for years.
I was lucky. I got sober before the drinking killed me. A couple more enablers and I might not have.
I'm praying for your mom today and every day. And I'm praying that you have the strength to give her that number and stop letting her play you.
Mike
Meg
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 22
Thanks for the comments everyone! She is attending AA but does not have a sponsor at this point. After her last great binge she started going to AA every day. This week it has been hit and miss and I could see it all coming from a mile away.
Her depression inidcates to me she does have some self esteem issues but I do see your point- I promise! lol
I guess my next question is how do I now tell her she can't call me when that is all I have been asking her to do for the last year? She was continually lying and not looking for support so I said "you can call me for support." Don't know why I thought that would help since I have absolutely no clue how to "help" or "support" an alcoholic but that is what I did. I know I CAN say I no longer think I can help or support her and perhaps that is my way of telling her not to call me with it anymore (although this is only the 2nd time she has actually called me so I don't think she will miss that offer)? I do think she will react VERY negatively to it to the point that she will say I don't love her, don't care, etc. I know if she were sober she would know that isn't true but it is still hard to hear.
Ok I am done rambling!
Her depression inidcates to me she does have some self esteem issues but I do see your point- I promise! lol
I guess my next question is how do I now tell her she can't call me when that is all I have been asking her to do for the last year? She was continually lying and not looking for support so I said "you can call me for support." Don't know why I thought that would help since I have absolutely no clue how to "help" or "support" an alcoholic but that is what I did. I know I CAN say I no longer think I can help or support her and perhaps that is my way of telling her not to call me with it anymore (although this is only the 2nd time she has actually called me so I don't think she will miss that offer)? I do think she will react VERY negatively to it to the point that she will say I don't love her, don't care, etc. I know if she were sober she would know that isn't true but it is still hard to hear.
Ok I am done rambling!
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 477
I do think she will react VERY negatively to it to the point that she will say I don't love her, don't care, etc. I know if she were sober she would know that isn't true but it is still hard to hear.
That is why it was so difficult for me to go no contact with XABF. I had to "get up my nerve" in order to tell him. I didn't want to come across as cold or heartless, I didn't want to hear the things I knew he would say (learned from an earlier experience with him and from reading so many posts on here) but the more I thought about the alternative of not telling him and the more I read Co-dep No More, I knew that I had to save ME because I was the only one I could control. And yes, he did react with angry accusations and threats but I knew that was his disease talking.
I'm about up to 17 days now since I last had any contact with him. Each day gets easier and I grow stronger but the desire to call him to say "hi" and chit-chat is always there. He might have accused me of not loving him but nothing could be further from the truth.
Take care!
ARL
That is why it was so difficult for me to go no contact with XABF. I had to "get up my nerve" in order to tell him. I didn't want to come across as cold or heartless, I didn't want to hear the things I knew he would say (learned from an earlier experience with him and from reading so many posts on here) but the more I thought about the alternative of not telling him and the more I read Co-dep No More, I knew that I had to save ME because I was the only one I could control. And yes, he did react with angry accusations and threats but I knew that was his disease talking.
I'm about up to 17 days now since I last had any contact with him. Each day gets easier and I grow stronger but the desire to call him to say "hi" and chit-chat is always there. He might have accused me of not loving him but nothing could be further from the truth.
Take care!
ARL
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