my tale/ making sense of it
hippy
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 492
my tale/ making sense of it
I am trying just now to work out how and why I feel like I do about my past and how it links to the present. Guilt is a major emotion I struggle with.
I had a lovely childhood in lots of ways believe it or not. When my parents weren’t drinking, they were fantastic. My dad was an artist, really creative, loving and funny. He however had mood swings and was treated for anxiety depression. I have spoken to my doc about him and she agrees that possibly he was misdiagnosed (and medicated) as I think his behaviour was very indicative of bi polar. We are/were very similar.
He was seriously the most wonderful dad you could wish for, until he went on a drinking binge. When drinking he was verbally abusive to my mum and brother (never really me) and at times physically abusive to my mum. I can remember some scary times.
My mum was the most wonderful mum you could wish for too. Loving, tender, always on my side, she did things with us, seriously, she was fantastic. She did however always join him in his binges. Then she was horrible! She would scream and curse and swear, threaten to leave, get us up in the middle of the night, take us to some other drinking friends houses (where sometimes I was exposed to some dodgy characters, who did...or try to do things to me, but to be fair, she didn't know this) tell us how terrible my dad was, tell me things that as a child I never should have known.
The thing is, my parents were very well respected in the neighbourhood. They had an air of a real classy couple. People treated them differently, with more respect than others. They commanded that kind of respect. We were living in a very poor neighbourhood but my parents and others thought they were square pegs in a round hole. Teachers thought they were fantastic (and as I have said, they were most of the time) but it made it difficult to say to someone “I am struggling with home life” as it would have brought shame on the family, but my brother always looked after me when they were drinking.
Then he died. I was left on my own with them. The drinking got worse, tenfold. I got the verbal abuse that my brother used to get. My mum said horrific horrific things to me, but she was drunk and grieving. In sobriety, she was my wonderful mother again. I lost my dad emotionally during this time. I blamed him for how crap I felt life was (my mum had always blamed him, so now I did too) and I spent several years hating him. Hate is such a destructive emotion and I hope not to hate anyone again.
Then after a few years, my dad came off all his meds, cold turkey. It was a horrific time but when off them, he was a different man! He still drank but not as often. He found ways to deal with his mood swings through his art and his garden. Life became a bit better and I began to get a bit closer to him again.
Then he got ill. Over the next five years I got closer to him than I had been since my childhood. I accompanied him to all his appointments. He stopped drinking, so did my mum. For those five years, and this sounds selfish, I had my parents back. But it wasn’t very fair, cos now that my dad was a happier person in many ways, he was dying. Except, we didn’t say he was dying, we said he was ‘living’ and he did, live. Enjoyed his art, his job, his garden, my first daughter and his new found relationship with me.
My mum and dad always loved me fiercely. My dad was ill and to a degree, I think so was my mum. I forgive them for the past but it still hurts at times. The images come back, there is still a bitterness at not being believed (even though I know why she did that) the not being protected. I then feel guilty for feeling the negative emotions towards two people whom I love/loved very much.
Sorry to go on I just kind of wanted to explain why I feel like I do about my mother and it just kept on pouring out.
My mother is now a best friend, a beautiful mother and grandmother. She knows a bit about how I feel about the past, but I don’t see the point in hurting her anymore by going over it with her. She has her own demons to live with.
She is supportive of me, my girls adore her and I have every faith in her looking after my girls at any time. She has them overnight and I do not worry at all. She does not drink when she has them, she told me and I believe her. Today, she is taking them both to the theatre.
I think I am trying to ask, does anyone feel that they want to share their childhood demons but feel so guilty cos they love their parents and it feels somehow disloyal to say anything negative about them? I want to offload some of the stuff but I am struggling to get over the hurdle of feeling disloyal. I would like to know if anyone can relate to the loving parents fiercely but feeling bad about stuff that has happened?
Hippy
I had a lovely childhood in lots of ways believe it or not. When my parents weren’t drinking, they were fantastic. My dad was an artist, really creative, loving and funny. He however had mood swings and was treated for anxiety depression. I have spoken to my doc about him and she agrees that possibly he was misdiagnosed (and medicated) as I think his behaviour was very indicative of bi polar. We are/were very similar.
He was seriously the most wonderful dad you could wish for, until he went on a drinking binge. When drinking he was verbally abusive to my mum and brother (never really me) and at times physically abusive to my mum. I can remember some scary times.
My mum was the most wonderful mum you could wish for too. Loving, tender, always on my side, she did things with us, seriously, she was fantastic. She did however always join him in his binges. Then she was horrible! She would scream and curse and swear, threaten to leave, get us up in the middle of the night, take us to some other drinking friends houses (where sometimes I was exposed to some dodgy characters, who did...or try to do things to me, but to be fair, she didn't know this) tell us how terrible my dad was, tell me things that as a child I never should have known.
The thing is, my parents were very well respected in the neighbourhood. They had an air of a real classy couple. People treated them differently, with more respect than others. They commanded that kind of respect. We were living in a very poor neighbourhood but my parents and others thought they were square pegs in a round hole. Teachers thought they were fantastic (and as I have said, they were most of the time) but it made it difficult to say to someone “I am struggling with home life” as it would have brought shame on the family, but my brother always looked after me when they were drinking.
Then he died. I was left on my own with them. The drinking got worse, tenfold. I got the verbal abuse that my brother used to get. My mum said horrific horrific things to me, but she was drunk and grieving. In sobriety, she was my wonderful mother again. I lost my dad emotionally during this time. I blamed him for how crap I felt life was (my mum had always blamed him, so now I did too) and I spent several years hating him. Hate is such a destructive emotion and I hope not to hate anyone again.
Then after a few years, my dad came off all his meds, cold turkey. It was a horrific time but when off them, he was a different man! He still drank but not as often. He found ways to deal with his mood swings through his art and his garden. Life became a bit better and I began to get a bit closer to him again.
Then he got ill. Over the next five years I got closer to him than I had been since my childhood. I accompanied him to all his appointments. He stopped drinking, so did my mum. For those five years, and this sounds selfish, I had my parents back. But it wasn’t very fair, cos now that my dad was a happier person in many ways, he was dying. Except, we didn’t say he was dying, we said he was ‘living’ and he did, live. Enjoyed his art, his job, his garden, my first daughter and his new found relationship with me.
My mum and dad always loved me fiercely. My dad was ill and to a degree, I think so was my mum. I forgive them for the past but it still hurts at times. The images come back, there is still a bitterness at not being believed (even though I know why she did that) the not being protected. I then feel guilty for feeling the negative emotions towards two people whom I love/loved very much.
Sorry to go on I just kind of wanted to explain why I feel like I do about my mother and it just kept on pouring out.
My mother is now a best friend, a beautiful mother and grandmother. She knows a bit about how I feel about the past, but I don’t see the point in hurting her anymore by going over it with her. She has her own demons to live with.
She is supportive of me, my girls adore her and I have every faith in her looking after my girls at any time. She has them overnight and I do not worry at all. She does not drink when she has them, she told me and I believe her. Today, she is taking them both to the theatre.
I think I am trying to ask, does anyone feel that they want to share their childhood demons but feel so guilty cos they love their parents and it feels somehow disloyal to say anything negative about them? I want to offload some of the stuff but I am struggling to get over the hurdle of feeling disloyal. I would like to know if anyone can relate to the loving parents fiercely but feeling bad about stuff that has happened?
Hippy
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 1,086
I could write a book here, but time is limited, so I would offer this to you:
By stating facts, you are not being disloyal. You are simply saying what was or what is. It is the inverse to being disloyal, it is being loyal to yourself and your experiences, rather than keeping them bottled up or pretending it didn't happen. You must first be loyal (and forgiving) to yourself before you can be that way to others.
You were in a bad spot, you really had 4 parents - two who were very good, and two who were alcohol demons. It is much more common than you might think.
I loved my father fiercely, and I felt bad about things that happened. Both of those emotions can exist side by side. You can accept that they co-exist and sit with that. The feelings won't go away, although you may develop a better understanding of them, and eventually learn to accept your parents for what they were when they were drinking - this will help immensely with the feelings of guilt.
You didn't cause it, you couldn't control it, you couldn't cure it. It was what it was.
Practice those lines when you start feeling guilty. It may help or may not.
Unfortunately, I have to get going to work now. I hope you have a peaceful day.
By stating facts, you are not being disloyal. You are simply saying what was or what is. It is the inverse to being disloyal, it is being loyal to yourself and your experiences, rather than keeping them bottled up or pretending it didn't happen. You must first be loyal (and forgiving) to yourself before you can be that way to others.
You were in a bad spot, you really had 4 parents - two who were very good, and two who were alcohol demons. It is much more common than you might think.
I loved my father fiercely, and I felt bad about things that happened. Both of those emotions can exist side by side. You can accept that they co-exist and sit with that. The feelings won't go away, although you may develop a better understanding of them, and eventually learn to accept your parents for what they were when they were drinking - this will help immensely with the feelings of guilt.
You didn't cause it, you couldn't control it, you couldn't cure it. It was what it was.
Practice those lines when you start feeling guilty. It may help or may not.
Unfortunately, I have to get going to work now. I hope you have a peaceful day.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
Hippy,
I agree with Ginger. Stating that some WAS....that is just stating a fact. Being able to bring it out into the open, shine a bright non-judgemental light on it all, it's like bringing out all the sheets and blankets and pillows and rugs and clothes into the light and fresh air. You can see its flaws better....spots and fades and funny stains and all.....but it's out in the good, natural air and the sunlight and the timeless breeze washing it all clean. It is simply what happened to you, and though you may wish that much of it had never happened, it did, and you have survived to become a thoughtful, articulate, and still loving person.
You are not evil for wanting to bring out these demons and force them to stand in the light, in order to move to a better place mentally and spiritually.
Are you hoping to sit down with your mother and berate her for not doing This or That better/differently when you were small? (it doesn't sound like it but...)
What is your intention in clearing the air with her? What outcome are you hoping for?
If it's just to feel the relief of saying these historical facts (and how they shaped who you are) out loud to someone, have you considered talking to a counselor first, preferably one who deals with ACoAs? I found that INCREDIBLY helpful, more than I could ever explain. It gave me a forum to talk it through -- ALL the feelings, anger, guilt, love, everything -- and sort it out for myself. It didn't take long. I came to realize that it was the dam that was holding it all back -- MY INABILITY TO TALK ABOUT IT -- that was doing most of the damage, rather than the events themselves. Once the dam was broken, then life could flow.
Eventually, I did talk to my stepmother and tell her how things had been for me when I was younger. I did it in broad daylight, under kind circumstances, without accusation, blame, or anger. She responded with true and heartfelt regret, and then we were able to just go on with life. Is this what you too are hoping for? It can be done. But I never could've done it without having another sounding board first face-to-face, like a counselor.
Wishing you peace,
GiveLove
I agree with Ginger. Stating that some WAS....that is just stating a fact. Being able to bring it out into the open, shine a bright non-judgemental light on it all, it's like bringing out all the sheets and blankets and pillows and rugs and clothes into the light and fresh air. You can see its flaws better....spots and fades and funny stains and all.....but it's out in the good, natural air and the sunlight and the timeless breeze washing it all clean. It is simply what happened to you, and though you may wish that much of it had never happened, it did, and you have survived to become a thoughtful, articulate, and still loving person.
You are not evil for wanting to bring out these demons and force them to stand in the light, in order to move to a better place mentally and spiritually.
Are you hoping to sit down with your mother and berate her for not doing This or That better/differently when you were small? (it doesn't sound like it but...)
What is your intention in clearing the air with her? What outcome are you hoping for?
If it's just to feel the relief of saying these historical facts (and how they shaped who you are) out loud to someone, have you considered talking to a counselor first, preferably one who deals with ACoAs? I found that INCREDIBLY helpful, more than I could ever explain. It gave me a forum to talk it through -- ALL the feelings, anger, guilt, love, everything -- and sort it out for myself. It didn't take long. I came to realize that it was the dam that was holding it all back -- MY INABILITY TO TALK ABOUT IT -- that was doing most of the damage, rather than the events themselves. Once the dam was broken, then life could flow.
Eventually, I did talk to my stepmother and tell her how things had been for me when I was younger. I did it in broad daylight, under kind circumstances, without accusation, blame, or anger. She responded with true and heartfelt regret, and then we were able to just go on with life. Is this what you too are hoping for? It can be done. But I never could've done it without having another sounding board first face-to-face, like a counselor.
Wishing you peace,
GiveLove
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 1,086
Are you hoping to sit down with your mother and berate her for not doing This or That better/differently when you were small? (it doesn't sound like it but...)
What is your intention in clearing the air with her? What outcome are you hoping for?
What is your intention in clearing the air with her? What outcome are you hoping for?
I didn't really want an apology. What I wanted was some sign or indication that my parents loved me. I saw an apology as proof that they did love me, but that was not true - they could apologize all they wanted, and I would still have wondered.
Eventually, as I came to understand them better (they are not only alcoholics but also ACoAs themselves), I realized that to the extent that they could, in what manner they knew how, they did and still do love me. It displays in warped weird fashions, but it is all they know.
I wouldn't say that I absolved them of their treatment of me, but I would say that I have come to a place where I can accept that they did the best they could with the tools they had.
As for me, I'm working very hard (and have been for years now) on owning more tools. My old tools weren't doing what I needed them to.
hippy
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 492
thank you
thank you for replies.
I don't really want anything from my mother that I don't get already. She knows it was hard for me. Sometimes I get so angry at her skirting over it though. She will say things like "I know things were occassionally bad when your dad and I were drinking" but it wasn't occassionally and it wasn't bad, it was dreadful! Sometimes she paints a Mary Poppins type image of my childhood but it wasn't like that when I feared she would die by my dad killing her, or her setting the house on fire or choking on her vomit etc etc. She sometimes makes me feel guilty for finding motherhood difficult at times and in these times I want to blame her, say it is her fault. It is not, I am master of my own self.
I have spoken about it in counselling, but the counselling got cut short by her leaving. I now go to group therapy but don't want to talk about it as there is a man there who lost his family due to his alcohol addiction and I feel me going on about how awful it was for me, would be like putting salt in his wounds.
I have an assessment coming up for more counselling but there are so many issues I wish to explore, I don't know where to start.
Hippy
I don't really want anything from my mother that I don't get already. She knows it was hard for me. Sometimes I get so angry at her skirting over it though. She will say things like "I know things were occassionally bad when your dad and I were drinking" but it wasn't occassionally and it wasn't bad, it was dreadful! Sometimes she paints a Mary Poppins type image of my childhood but it wasn't like that when I feared she would die by my dad killing her, or her setting the house on fire or choking on her vomit etc etc. She sometimes makes me feel guilty for finding motherhood difficult at times and in these times I want to blame her, say it is her fault. It is not, I am master of my own self.
I have spoken about it in counselling, but the counselling got cut short by her leaving. I now go to group therapy but don't want to talk about it as there is a man there who lost his family due to his alcohol addiction and I feel me going on about how awful it was for me, would be like putting salt in his wounds.
I have an assessment coming up for more counselling but there are so many issues I wish to explore, I don't know where to start.
Hippy
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Leaving Sparta
Posts: 2,912
The first time I opened up about my family I felt ashamed. Guilty. I felt I had betrayed one of our family most sacred rule, the rule of silence.
However, being able to put a voice to things that have remained in darkness for so many years has allowed me to better understand myself and my parents and allowed me to feel an even deeper love for them.
My past was affecting my everyday life in more ways than I actually realized and it was only by being able to identify certain "learned behavior" that I could go about changing them.
A counselor may be able to guide you in unfolding some of those painful events. The work can be difficult, but if you go slowly you may find it is one of the kindest most loving things you can do for yourself.
However, being able to put a voice to things that have remained in darkness for so many years has allowed me to better understand myself and my parents and allowed me to feel an even deeper love for them.
My past was affecting my everyday life in more ways than I actually realized and it was only by being able to identify certain "learned behavior" that I could go about changing them.
A counselor may be able to guide you in unfolding some of those painful events. The work can be difficult, but if you go slowly you may find it is one of the kindest most loving things you can do for yourself.
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