explain higher power please!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: home
Posts: 291
explain higher power please!
ok so i just started AA- i have been reading, and listening and trying to get informed but i am really struggling with the concept of "higher power" and the concept of powerlessness. (hopefully this does not mean i am doomed to fail at 12 steps and sobriety)
i do not feel powerless.- ok well after i get a drink of two in me then yes i am powerless against the higer power of the wine, but before i pick that drink up I am still in charge. and just for the record i do believe in God, and that she (wink) is a higher power - I just don't feel that HP is in control of me picking up that first drink.
can you tell i am a bit of a control freak? ok so i brought this up in AA and of course i got the - "higher power as you know it" (i am thinking thats me) and the "alcohol is your hp and later you will have more clarity" - i feel pretty clear.
anyway does anyone have more experience with this and more thoughts? is this a normal way to feel in the beginning?
i do not feel powerless.- ok well after i get a drink of two in me then yes i am powerless against the higer power of the wine, but before i pick that drink up I am still in charge. and just for the record i do believe in God, and that she (wink) is a higher power - I just don't feel that HP is in control of me picking up that first drink.
can you tell i am a bit of a control freak? ok so i brought this up in AA and of course i got the - "higher power as you know it" (i am thinking thats me) and the "alcohol is your hp and later you will have more clarity" - i feel pretty clear.
anyway does anyone have more experience with this and more thoughts? is this a normal way to feel in the beginning?
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: road to recovery
Posts: 1,689
hi! well, it took me a long time to get to the point where i felt powerless. i'll give ya a little about me and see if it helps.
you said "before i pick up, i am still in charge." i thought that. i could say that too; but it was what happened AFTER i picked up. i never could consistently predict what would happen AFTER i started.
most of the time, i could happily drink a half-bottle of wine a few nights a week. then here and there i would binge on the weekend or at a party. the real issue is that i drank almost every night. i escaped through drinking. i also drank until blackout. used to be one blackout every coupla years. then about once a year. used to be when i was alone or with one or two friends. became an issue when i drank too much in front of people with whom i would not normally lose control. this july 23rd was my third blackout this year. two of the blackouts happened when i was with people who mean a lot to me (like my dear aunt 80 year old aunt who is a total tee-totaler) and in front of parents of my kids friends etc. alcoholism is a progressive disease and it was progressing to the point that it scared me. i suspected i had problems with alcohol about 10 years ago and it took until this past summer until i hit my bottom. i just knew. it was time. and i couldn't do it alone. i reached out here and i called aa. i was just disgusted with myself and scared to death.
as for hp. i have always believed in a god. that isn't such an issue with me. however, there are plenty of people here and who i've met in aa who use hps that are not god as i know him/her. one woman uses a tree. many others simply use the power of the program and the friendships they've formed as their hp. the group, if you will, is their hp.
here's the nugget of truth that i'm gleaning from this: you said that you don't think god is in charge of you picking up that first drink. he/she may not be; but she/he can help you NOT to pick it up.
hope that this helps! glad you are here curly!
you said "before i pick up, i am still in charge." i thought that. i could say that too; but it was what happened AFTER i picked up. i never could consistently predict what would happen AFTER i started.
most of the time, i could happily drink a half-bottle of wine a few nights a week. then here and there i would binge on the weekend or at a party. the real issue is that i drank almost every night. i escaped through drinking. i also drank until blackout. used to be one blackout every coupla years. then about once a year. used to be when i was alone or with one or two friends. became an issue when i drank too much in front of people with whom i would not normally lose control. this july 23rd was my third blackout this year. two of the blackouts happened when i was with people who mean a lot to me (like my dear aunt 80 year old aunt who is a total tee-totaler) and in front of parents of my kids friends etc. alcoholism is a progressive disease and it was progressing to the point that it scared me. i suspected i had problems with alcohol about 10 years ago and it took until this past summer until i hit my bottom. i just knew. it was time. and i couldn't do it alone. i reached out here and i called aa. i was just disgusted with myself and scared to death.
as for hp. i have always believed in a god. that isn't such an issue with me. however, there are plenty of people here and who i've met in aa who use hps that are not god as i know him/her. one woman uses a tree. many others simply use the power of the program and the friendships they've formed as their hp. the group, if you will, is their hp.
here's the nugget of truth that i'm gleaning from this: you said that you don't think god is in charge of you picking up that first drink. he/she may not be; but she/he can help you NOT to pick it up.
hope that this helps! glad you are here curly!
Om, Aum, Ohm...
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Punxsutawney/Pittsburgh
Posts: 4,797
I think you're already on the right track but might just be misunderstanding what others are explaining to you.
At first, my powerlessness manifested only after picking up a drink. As time went on, more and more of my life in between drinks/drinking sprees fell into the category of the unmanageable. So long as I chose to pick up the drink, my HP's would not trump my own (save for a few experiences where I've found myself asking, "Hmm....odd or god?") -- and again, as time went on, I may have thought I was in control to the point of the drink, but those times when I would tell myself, "You're not going to drink/use/lose control" and I got trashed anyway, despite my best intentions, I could see (mostly in retrospect) that I wasn't in control, even when sober. The drink and the underlying feeling of discontent was controlling me. Call that an anti-HP or whatever you want, the disease of alcoholism was stronger in me than my desire to be sober -- for a long time.
When I became willing (rather than willful) to believe these folks who said a HP helped them to stay sober, I became willing to allow a HP to work for me as well. The chapter in the BB entitled "We Agnostics" helped keep me from making it too difficult to accept or complicating the concept too awfully much.
It's easy to jump ahead in the steps. I think we all try to do it, so before you consider exactly how a HP can aid you in the process of picking up the first drink, which I see as the third step (and somebody please speak up if they see it differently), try focusing only on the first. Perhaps all areas of your life are not yet affected by your alcoholism (I'm assuming you have determined that you are alcoholic). Try focusing instead on those areas that are and how you might agree that you're powerless in those ways -- so long as you're drinking. HP doesn't come into it until the second step. Making the decision to harness that spiritual power doesn't come in until the third step. For many, it doesn't take long to reach the third step, and for others, there's a huge struggle getting there. I think the important part is seeing each step as separate and chronological and knowing that they're in order for a reason.
Hope that helped some.
Peace & Love,
Sugah
At first, my powerlessness manifested only after picking up a drink. As time went on, more and more of my life in between drinks/drinking sprees fell into the category of the unmanageable. So long as I chose to pick up the drink, my HP's would not trump my own (save for a few experiences where I've found myself asking, "Hmm....odd or god?") -- and again, as time went on, I may have thought I was in control to the point of the drink, but those times when I would tell myself, "You're not going to drink/use/lose control" and I got trashed anyway, despite my best intentions, I could see (mostly in retrospect) that I wasn't in control, even when sober. The drink and the underlying feeling of discontent was controlling me. Call that an anti-HP or whatever you want, the disease of alcoholism was stronger in me than my desire to be sober -- for a long time.
When I became willing (rather than willful) to believe these folks who said a HP helped them to stay sober, I became willing to allow a HP to work for me as well. The chapter in the BB entitled "We Agnostics" helped keep me from making it too difficult to accept or complicating the concept too awfully much.
It's easy to jump ahead in the steps. I think we all try to do it, so before you consider exactly how a HP can aid you in the process of picking up the first drink, which I see as the third step (and somebody please speak up if they see it differently), try focusing only on the first. Perhaps all areas of your life are not yet affected by your alcoholism (I'm assuming you have determined that you are alcoholic). Try focusing instead on those areas that are and how you might agree that you're powerless in those ways -- so long as you're drinking. HP doesn't come into it until the second step. Making the decision to harness that spiritual power doesn't come in until the third step. For many, it doesn't take long to reach the third step, and for others, there's a huge struggle getting there. I think the important part is seeing each step as separate and chronological and knowing that they're in order for a reason.
Hope that helped some.
Peace & Love,
Sugah
Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 113
The easiest way of me to understand was to think of my higher power as God-when it used to be alcohol.
I need to fill the void where alcohol once controlled my life; and letting a higher power and people of AA into my life is a way of doing that. Hope that helps, I try not to get too technical..
I need to fill the void where alcohol once controlled my life; and letting a higher power and people of AA into my life is a way of doing that. Hope that helps, I try not to get too technical..
Old & Sober Member of AA
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Nursing Home in Brick, New Jersey
Posts: 5,174
I certainly wouldn't expect you to accept the 12 Step Program on blind faith, as many of us who were so desparate to get and stay sober were willing to do. But, I do think you're intellectualizing too much...which can tend to become confusing.
Does the expression, "A simple program for complicated people" make any sense to you? There's also KISS (Keep It Simple Stud...OK, that isn't really the fourth word...but, it will do...if you happen to be female, you can substitute Sister).
When newcomers have questioned the HP as a "God of your understanding", I've always told them, "It doesn't matter if you understand Him...just know that He understands you".
Exactly, Sugah...the founders of AA and the authors of the 12 Steps were wise beyond my comprehension, and it's worked wonderfully well for the past 70+ years.
Does the expression, "A simple program for complicated people" make any sense to you? There's also KISS (Keep It Simple Stud...OK, that isn't really the fourth word...but, it will do...if you happen to be female, you can substitute Sister).
When newcomers have questioned the HP as a "God of your understanding", I've always told them, "It doesn't matter if you understand Him...just know that He understands you".
I think the important part is seeing each step as separate and chronological and knowing that they're in order for a reason.
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
OK Curly the First Step says: We admitted we were POWERLESS OVER ALCOHOL and that our lives had become unmanageable.
I don't know about you, but I had NO TROUBLE admitting I was powerless over alcohol, and that when I was practicing my affliction of alcoholism my life was TOTALLY UNMANAGEABLE.
Step 2 says: Came to believe that A POWER GREATER THAN OURSELVES could restore us to sanity. Well to understand that first I had to understand that INSANITY was the repitition of the same acts or actions expecting different results. (My insanity was continuing to pick up the drink and this time 'was going to be different', yeah right) I wasn't sure about the "God" concept (I had bad memories of organized religion) so for my first year of sobriety I used a Harley Davidson Motorcycle. Go ahead laugh, everyone does, but it worked for me. Later, as I stayed sober and went on my journery of recovery and searching I found a Higher Power of my own understanding.
Right now all you really need is to believe that those in the rooms believe. Use the group as your HP. Use Mother Nature. Go to meetings, don't drink between meetings. Get a sponsor. Call that sponsor if the 'urge' or 'craving' comes upon you. The group can be your HP for now.
Please don't drive yourself crazy with trying to understand everything all at once. No need to. You are starting a life long journey of growth and change.
I finally knew that I had accomplished Step 1, when I knew to the very CORE OF MY BEING that I was totally powerless when it came to alcohol, one drink was too many and a thousand weren't enough. When that acceptance came, totally and completely and I had no reservations left, I knew I was building my sobriety on a solid extremely thick foundation of concrete.
Hope that helps.
Love and hugs,
I don't know about you, but I had NO TROUBLE admitting I was powerless over alcohol, and that when I was practicing my affliction of alcoholism my life was TOTALLY UNMANAGEABLE.
Step 2 says: Came to believe that A POWER GREATER THAN OURSELVES could restore us to sanity. Well to understand that first I had to understand that INSANITY was the repitition of the same acts or actions expecting different results. (My insanity was continuing to pick up the drink and this time 'was going to be different', yeah right) I wasn't sure about the "God" concept (I had bad memories of organized religion) so for my first year of sobriety I used a Harley Davidson Motorcycle. Go ahead laugh, everyone does, but it worked for me. Later, as I stayed sober and went on my journery of recovery and searching I found a Higher Power of my own understanding.
Right now all you really need is to believe that those in the rooms believe. Use the group as your HP. Use Mother Nature. Go to meetings, don't drink between meetings. Get a sponsor. Call that sponsor if the 'urge' or 'craving' comes upon you. The group can be your HP for now.
Please don't drive yourself crazy with trying to understand everything all at once. No need to. You are starting a life long journey of growth and change.
I finally knew that I had accomplished Step 1, when I knew to the very CORE OF MY BEING that I was totally powerless when it came to alcohol, one drink was too many and a thousand weren't enough. When that acceptance came, totally and completely and I had no reservations left, I knew I was building my sobriety on a solid extremely thick foundation of concrete.
Hope that helps.
Love and hugs,
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: home
Posts: 291
thank you everybody for your input. i think i am overthinking the hp, the steps, the whole thing-- but a lot of what i read here is helping me put it into proper perspective.
i need to think about it some more
i need to think about it some more
Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: California
Posts: 972
((( Curly ))) I don't think you need to think about it anymore... like others have said I also believe you are over thinking it.
Your HP can be anything or anyone. It can be a combination of all of the above. It just can't be YOU calling the shots... no pun intended but actually that is good because when it IS YOU calling the shots, you're a drunk.
I personally called a lot of things my HP in early sobriety. But I found my biggest HP is an ideal that doesn't want me to hurt my friends and family anymore. It's an ideal that let's me want to do the next right thing. It's an ideal that allows me to be comfortable in my own skin.... I find solace in being a good person. Smart yes, but not selfish and inconsiderate.
Just think about "willingness" and know you don't have to pin down the whole HUGE concept of the higher power to begin the steps and move on towards a life that is rewarding, honest and loving.
Your HP can be anything or anyone. It can be a combination of all of the above. It just can't be YOU calling the shots... no pun intended but actually that is good because when it IS YOU calling the shots, you're a drunk.
I personally called a lot of things my HP in early sobriety. But I found my biggest HP is an ideal that doesn't want me to hurt my friends and family anymore. It's an ideal that let's me want to do the next right thing. It's an ideal that allows me to be comfortable in my own skin.... I find solace in being a good person. Smart yes, but not selfish and inconsiderate.
Just think about "willingness" and know you don't have to pin down the whole HUGE concept of the higher power to begin the steps and move on towards a life that is rewarding, honest and loving.
Knucklehead
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,005
Programs that do not rely on religious/spiritual concepts:
LifeRing Secular Recovery
SMART Recovery
Women for Sobriety
LifeRing Secular Recovery
SMART Recovery
Women for Sobriety
Old & Sober Member of AA
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Nursing Home in Brick, New Jersey
Posts: 5,174
I went to the websites for the three programs mentioned above...just out of curiosity. They are all so comparatively new that their rate of success is undetermined. Far be it from me to discourage anyone from investigating other means by which to seek and attain sobriety; but, personally, since I tend to be a person who needs structure in every aspect of my life, I'm content to stick to the tried and true concepts of the 12 Step Program of AA. Which, by the way, has been the model for countless other programs of recovery.
Another thing that kind of turns me off about these other programs is that at least two of them openly solicit donations because they are having problems "staying affloat" otherwise. I much prefer the "we are self-supporting through our own contributions" AA structure.
Of course, all of the above is JMHO.
Another thing that kind of turns me off about these other programs is that at least two of them openly solicit donations because they are having problems "staying affloat" otherwise. I much prefer the "we are self-supporting through our own contributions" AA structure.
Of course, all of the above is JMHO.
Old & Sober Member of AA
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Nursing Home in Brick, New Jersey
Posts: 5,174
The last I heard was that "1 out of 38 make it"...of course, that was a while ago. Since we never hear about the ones who relapse and never make it back to recovery, it's admittedly difficult to come up with exact numbers.
I'm not a mathematician; but considering AA has been in existence over 70 years and, with the thousands of AA groups all over the world, I'm confident the recovery rate is substantial (if not remarkable).
Sorry, I forgot to mention that you would have to take the anonymity factor into account, too.
I'm not a mathematician; but considering AA has been in existence over 70 years and, with the thousands of AA groups all over the world, I'm confident the recovery rate is substantial (if not remarkable).
Sorry, I forgot to mention that you would have to take the anonymity factor into account, too.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Murrieta, Ca
Posts: 2,683
Originally Posted by curlylocks 
thank you everybody for your input. i think i am overthinking the hp, the steps, the whole thing-- but a lot of what i read here is helping me put it into proper perspective.
i need to think about it some more
i need to think about it some more
My sponsor has told me I can think myself back into drinking. Keep it simple. I do, and it works for me.
Old & Sober Member of AA
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Nursing Home in Brick, New Jersey
Posts: 5,174
My sponsor has told me I can think myself back into drinking. Keep it simple. I do, and it works for me.
Maybe you should look around for a sponsor, yourself, Curly...couldn't hurt.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: home
Posts: 291
yes its a good idea for me to get a sponser, i just started AA -
I do want a sponser, its just that i was told to find someone i wanted to emulate, someone who seemed to be at a place where i would like to be, and to be quite frank I haven't found that someone yet.. (and i swear i am not being too picky) I am going to expand to new meetings thereby hoping I will find someone to sponser me.
in the meantime i have sr and i have my therapist so i don't feel to alone but i would like someone to guide me through the program.
I do want a sponser, its just that i was told to find someone i wanted to emulate, someone who seemed to be at a place where i would like to be, and to be quite frank I haven't found that someone yet.. (and i swear i am not being too picky) I am going to expand to new meetings thereby hoping I will find someone to sponser me.
in the meantime i have sr and i have my therapist so i don't feel to alone but i would like someone to guide me through the program.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Murrieta, Ca
Posts: 2,683
Curly, here's what was suggested to me, and what I've done:
1. Get a Sponsor
2. Get the big book and 12 X 12
3. Read the above !
4. Pray & Meditate
5. Call other alcoholics
6. Call your sponsor daily
7. Go to a meeting every day
8. Work the steps with your sponsor
I'm currently working step 4 and pushing 60 days sobreity. My children are back at home, my car is fixed, and I'm doing contract work for the company that fired me for drinking on the job !!!!
My stress level is almost non-exsistant. Depression is minimal. Serenity is a daily occurence.
It works, it really works.
1. Get a Sponsor
2. Get the big book and 12 X 12
3. Read the above !
4. Pray & Meditate
5. Call other alcoholics
6. Call your sponsor daily
7. Go to a meeting every day
8. Work the steps with your sponsor
I'm currently working step 4 and pushing 60 days sobreity. My children are back at home, my car is fixed, and I'm doing contract work for the company that fired me for drinking on the job !!!!
My stress level is almost non-exsistant. Depression is minimal. Serenity is a daily occurence.
It works, it really works.
Knucklehead
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,005
Originally Posted by tracee1010
Many of my clients struggle with this concept for a long time, especially the ones who do not believe in God, which is not even necessary. There is a difference between Spirituality and Religon. you dont have to believe in God to be Spiritual. Its about faith, and what you put into something. The example I use is- I am catholic and have a Rosary hanging from my rear view mirror. My friend, who thinks all Catholics are crazy says to me "why do you have that hanging in your car? Do you REALLY think thats gonna protect you from anything?" My answer is YES, I DO! But its not about the Rosery, It the faith that I have in this object that God or a HP will keep me and my son safe while we drive. It dosent matter if it was a soda can hanging from a shoe string... its what I Believe the object does for me...... I cannot contol everyone on the road, so I turn it over to my HP/Rosery/God (in my case) and belive my faith will promote protection... Does that make sense????
Knucklehead
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,005
Originally Posted by raerob
I went to the websites for the three programs mentioned above...just out of curiosity. They are all so comparatively new that their rate of success is undetermined. Far be it from me to discourage anyone from investigating other means by which to seek and attain sobriety; but, personally, since I tend to be a person who needs structure in every aspect of my life, I'm content to stick to the tried and true concepts of the 12 Step Program of AA. Which, by the way, has been the model for countless other programs of recovery.
Another thing that kind of turns me off about these other programs is that at least two of them openly solicit donations because they are having problems "staying affloat" otherwise. I much prefer the "we are self-supporting through our own contributions" AA structure.
Of course, all of the above is JMHO.
Another thing that kind of turns me off about these other programs is that at least two of them openly solicit donations because they are having problems "staying affloat" otherwise. I much prefer the "we are self-supporting through our own contributions" AA structure.
Of course, all of the above is JMHO.
Despite your disclaimer about not discouraging folks from checking out all available resources, it really sounds to me like that is exactly what you are doing. But, if a variety of programs and support systems grow and become more available, there will be choices for us secular folks that don't benefit from a God-centric program and support system, and AA will have far less disgruntled participants.
Choices of recovery options benefit everyone.
Also, AA itself has a collection of secular based meetings:
http://agnosticaa.org/
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