9 Months In - PAWS (Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome)
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Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 6
9 Months In - PAWS (Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome)
I've just passed 9 months sober and I'm now on what I hope the be the tail end of a rather uncomfortable brush with PAWS again. In fact the last 9 months as a whole has hardly been a walk in the park. I thought I'd share a little with my experience in the hope that people can relate to what I'm going through, give some insight, gain some knowledge etc.
Firstly, I was never an all day drinker, binging was my forte which I think has contributed to the aggressiveness and unpredictability of my PAWs symptoms. Before anyone asks by the way, I'll preface to this too by mentioning that I've sought medical attention and have a clean bill of health according to the Doc.
PAWs for me tends to operate in cyclical fashion where I'll experience about a week of symptoms usually punctuated with one or two particularly horrible days in the middle. This will usually happen once a month I'd guess but the severity doesn't seem to follow a general downward trend which worries me to no end. For example, this one was/is terrible, the last one wasn't too bad, the one before that was worse than this one. Beyond that, there is always an undercurrent of feeling out of place and that PAWs will return at anytime. Symptoms generally include:
- Intense feeling of being physically and mentally uncomfortable with everything. Akin to the feeling you have when you have the flu - a general level of discomfort and malaise. It's almost like I'm acutely aware that I'm deficient in any type of relaxing or feel good neurotransitters at that point in time and it's almost painful.
- An odd sense of disconnection with time and reality that's really difficult to explain - It's almost like the part of my brain that knows who I am in time and space and where I fit into the world is permanently asleep until I have to consciously wake it up - I know who I am, who those are around me, where I am and when it is but this information isn't visceral - And as a result I constantly mix up names, the day/date, events etc unless I make a concerted effort to remember them. Example is that I stayed at a friends house last night out of town and I have driven 200km this morning - but I've all but lost any attachment to that experience, I'm just focused on now, not this morning, not in an hour, just now.. This symptom is probably the most worrying as it makes me feel like I'm just on the verge of loosing my mind or that I can't trust myself - Example is that I need to cook dinner tonight for when my girlfriend when she gets home from work - I'm pretty anxious that my mind isn't going to keep up it's side of the bargain and remember to go to the shops before she gets home.
- Trouble reading, recognising words, typing.
- Memory problems like forgetting where I parked my car. I can find this information if I really have to, but like above, I don't have it on hand in my head like I should.
- Thoughts that cycle around and around in my head - lack of ability to organise thoughts
- A feeling of being both tired and restless at the same time.
- Doom. A deep sense that something really bad is about to happen.
- Dreaming about stresses in my life and waking up early thinking about them - inability to fall back asleep.
- Lack of ability to prioritize, lack of mental direction
- Nervous energy that will have me compulsively performing actions like walking around the house
- Dissasociation, derealization and feeling like I'll pass out - I've narrowed some of this down to blood sugar problems.
- Dizziness, vertigo and balance issues.
- Significant and unrelenting health anxiety that has me compulsively checking the internet and freaking out about all of my symptoms. Fear that I'm going to loose my mind, that I have permanent damage etc. This one though is pretty much constant and most likely heralds a deeper problem unrelated to the alcohol.
- Fear and panic that will make me want to do anything to not be in the current situation I'm in.
- Brain fog and confusion - Although this is also present in some degree most of the time, but baseline does seem to be improving (???)
- Numerous physical symptoms such as headache, head and ear fullness, pressure behind my eyes, tinnitus, a jittery internal shakiness, shaky hands and muscle aches, jolts and twitches.
- Crippling fatigue from time to time - Sometimes I think I'm physically exhausted and need to sleep, other times I think that I just want to sleep to give my brain and my consciousness a rest.
- Photophobia, sensitivity to noise and easy to startle.
- Irritability and desire for personal space.
- Extreme sensitivity to smell - cigarette smoke would turn me into a psychopath in the early days and would set off all of my symptoms (most likely because I'd given up smoking too) but now it's not so bad. If you put a stick of incense anywhere near me though you'd be wise to steer clear for a while.
- Irrational outbursts and a short temper - I think this is linked to feeling uncomfortable too for some reason, can't quite pinpoint what's going on here.. due to the brain fog most likely.
- Lack of motivation, lack of empathy, lack of sense of humour but increase in emotional overreactions.
- Physical headache, wincing, brain fog when trying to listen to/understand people talking - this is an odd one that makes me quite sad at times because my girlfriend notices it and she can see it on my face when she talks to me.
- Guilt and a general sense that I'm not a great person deep down, low self esteem.
- A pattern of symptoms that generally is associated with times when I'd usually be abusing alcohol. Example being that this current episode coincides with 2 consecutive weekends away with friends/family where I'd usually be drinking heavily like everyone else... The last episode that was this bad was over new years eve where we went camping with friends - again, there would have been a lot of drinking had I not been sober. I've found that I've spent a lot of these times withdrawing from the group.
- A general sense of not fitting in with others/group activities.
Probably a whole bunch that I'm forgetting due to brain fog too.
Like I said, my doc has said that all tests point to me being a healthy guy in my early 30s. I'm currently seeing a psychologist to see if he can help at all and we're focussing on the health anxiety problems first.
One thing I'll mention about all of this though, and I wonder if anyone else experiences this but I feel that all of the symptoms that I experience are very resilient to relaxation exercises and CBT methods. Nothing seems to really make me able to come back down to earth and just relax for a couple of minutes. I've found that exercise does help but from time to time it can also significantly exacerbate my symptoms. Just thought I'd mention that.
I'd also like to say that I think that the name POST acute withdrawal syndrome may be somewhat of a misnomer (???). I feel like a lot of the symptoms that I'm experiencing were also present when I was still actively drinking and were a result of damage suffered from the alcohol and not the withdrawal - could be wrong on this though.
I'm really looking forward to the 12 month mark right now.. but the really disheartening thing is that at 6 months I was really looking forward to the 9 month mark. Now I'm here I think I feel worse than at 6 months... I just hope 12 months is better than it is right now.
Onwards and upwards I suppose.
Firstly, I was never an all day drinker, binging was my forte which I think has contributed to the aggressiveness and unpredictability of my PAWs symptoms. Before anyone asks by the way, I'll preface to this too by mentioning that I've sought medical attention and have a clean bill of health according to the Doc.
PAWs for me tends to operate in cyclical fashion where I'll experience about a week of symptoms usually punctuated with one or two particularly horrible days in the middle. This will usually happen once a month I'd guess but the severity doesn't seem to follow a general downward trend which worries me to no end. For example, this one was/is terrible, the last one wasn't too bad, the one before that was worse than this one. Beyond that, there is always an undercurrent of feeling out of place and that PAWs will return at anytime. Symptoms generally include:
- Intense feeling of being physically and mentally uncomfortable with everything. Akin to the feeling you have when you have the flu - a general level of discomfort and malaise. It's almost like I'm acutely aware that I'm deficient in any type of relaxing or feel good neurotransitters at that point in time and it's almost painful.
- An odd sense of disconnection with time and reality that's really difficult to explain - It's almost like the part of my brain that knows who I am in time and space and where I fit into the world is permanently asleep until I have to consciously wake it up - I know who I am, who those are around me, where I am and when it is but this information isn't visceral - And as a result I constantly mix up names, the day/date, events etc unless I make a concerted effort to remember them. Example is that I stayed at a friends house last night out of town and I have driven 200km this morning - but I've all but lost any attachment to that experience, I'm just focused on now, not this morning, not in an hour, just now.. This symptom is probably the most worrying as it makes me feel like I'm just on the verge of loosing my mind or that I can't trust myself - Example is that I need to cook dinner tonight for when my girlfriend when she gets home from work - I'm pretty anxious that my mind isn't going to keep up it's side of the bargain and remember to go to the shops before she gets home.
- Trouble reading, recognising words, typing.
- Memory problems like forgetting where I parked my car. I can find this information if I really have to, but like above, I don't have it on hand in my head like I should.
- Thoughts that cycle around and around in my head - lack of ability to organise thoughts
- A feeling of being both tired and restless at the same time.
- Doom. A deep sense that something really bad is about to happen.
- Dreaming about stresses in my life and waking up early thinking about them - inability to fall back asleep.
- Lack of ability to prioritize, lack of mental direction
- Nervous energy that will have me compulsively performing actions like walking around the house
- Dissasociation, derealization and feeling like I'll pass out - I've narrowed some of this down to blood sugar problems.
- Dizziness, vertigo and balance issues.
- Significant and unrelenting health anxiety that has me compulsively checking the internet and freaking out about all of my symptoms. Fear that I'm going to loose my mind, that I have permanent damage etc. This one though is pretty much constant and most likely heralds a deeper problem unrelated to the alcohol.
- Fear and panic that will make me want to do anything to not be in the current situation I'm in.
- Brain fog and confusion - Although this is also present in some degree most of the time, but baseline does seem to be improving (???)
- Numerous physical symptoms such as headache, head and ear fullness, pressure behind my eyes, tinnitus, a jittery internal shakiness, shaky hands and muscle aches, jolts and twitches.
- Crippling fatigue from time to time - Sometimes I think I'm physically exhausted and need to sleep, other times I think that I just want to sleep to give my brain and my consciousness a rest.
- Photophobia, sensitivity to noise and easy to startle.
- Irritability and desire for personal space.
- Extreme sensitivity to smell - cigarette smoke would turn me into a psychopath in the early days and would set off all of my symptoms (most likely because I'd given up smoking too) but now it's not so bad. If you put a stick of incense anywhere near me though you'd be wise to steer clear for a while.
- Irrational outbursts and a short temper - I think this is linked to feeling uncomfortable too for some reason, can't quite pinpoint what's going on here.. due to the brain fog most likely.
- Lack of motivation, lack of empathy, lack of sense of humour but increase in emotional overreactions.
- Physical headache, wincing, brain fog when trying to listen to/understand people talking - this is an odd one that makes me quite sad at times because my girlfriend notices it and she can see it on my face when she talks to me.
- Guilt and a general sense that I'm not a great person deep down, low self esteem.
- A pattern of symptoms that generally is associated with times when I'd usually be abusing alcohol. Example being that this current episode coincides with 2 consecutive weekends away with friends/family where I'd usually be drinking heavily like everyone else... The last episode that was this bad was over new years eve where we went camping with friends - again, there would have been a lot of drinking had I not been sober. I've found that I've spent a lot of these times withdrawing from the group.
- A general sense of not fitting in with others/group activities.
Probably a whole bunch that I'm forgetting due to brain fog too.
Like I said, my doc has said that all tests point to me being a healthy guy in my early 30s. I'm currently seeing a psychologist to see if he can help at all and we're focussing on the health anxiety problems first.
One thing I'll mention about all of this though, and I wonder if anyone else experiences this but I feel that all of the symptoms that I experience are very resilient to relaxation exercises and CBT methods. Nothing seems to really make me able to come back down to earth and just relax for a couple of minutes. I've found that exercise does help but from time to time it can also significantly exacerbate my symptoms. Just thought I'd mention that.
I'd also like to say that I think that the name POST acute withdrawal syndrome may be somewhat of a misnomer (???). I feel like a lot of the symptoms that I'm experiencing were also present when I was still actively drinking and were a result of damage suffered from the alcohol and not the withdrawal - could be wrong on this though.
I'm really looking forward to the 12 month mark right now.. but the really disheartening thing is that at 6 months I was really looking forward to the 9 month mark. Now I'm here I think I feel worse than at 6 months... I just hope 12 months is better than it is right now.
Onwards and upwards I suppose.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pacific Coast
Posts: 785
I'd say "I could have written your post," but although our experiences match very closely, I could never have articulated mine so precisely or in so much detail. If you're like me, I'm guessing this post didn't exactly roll off your fingers and you had to spend quite some time composing and editing it? Perhaps you still felt dissatisfied with it despite all your efforts? All very familiar.
You particularly nailed the part about the sense of doom and anxiety, the feeling of being destined always to feel this terrible, and that memory and cognition issues were constantly getting worse. When I look back through my journals, there are repeated references to this.
Well, here's the good news: it gets better, not worse.
To be honest, I don't think I'll ever be 100% the way I was before I began drinking to excess, but I certainly feel loads better now than I did at 9 months sober (I'll be 5 years sober next Friday).
The main thing I've learned is that any effort I can make to avoid obsessing or over-analyzing my symptoms is a step in the right direction. Like you, at 9 months I was constantly thinking and worrying about it; nowadays it's not nearly so much of an issue (although I do have my moments). The most progress I've made is when I don't focus on how I'm feeling but participate actively in recovery and life as fully as I'm able -- live, laugh, and love, even though those don't come as naturally as they used to.
I'm glad you came along and shared your experience -- it's always nice to find a kindred spirit, as some of the recovering alcoholics even in this highly-evolved forum don't experience anything like PAWS and dismiss it as being a kind of self-indulgent neurosis. In case you haven't searched already, there are a number of threads on SR devoted to PAWS. One of the most exhaustive (and perhaps exhausting) is this one: https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ht-go-mad.html (For those tortured by PAWS (Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms) and who fear they might go mad)
Welcome to SR, and thanks again for posting. I have every confidence that you'll feel better and better as you continue to stack sober time and grow in recovery.
You particularly nailed the part about the sense of doom and anxiety, the feeling of being destined always to feel this terrible, and that memory and cognition issues were constantly getting worse. When I look back through my journals, there are repeated references to this.
Well, here's the good news: it gets better, not worse.
To be honest, I don't think I'll ever be 100% the way I was before I began drinking to excess, but I certainly feel loads better now than I did at 9 months sober (I'll be 5 years sober next Friday).
The main thing I've learned is that any effort I can make to avoid obsessing or over-analyzing my symptoms is a step in the right direction. Like you, at 9 months I was constantly thinking and worrying about it; nowadays it's not nearly so much of an issue (although I do have my moments). The most progress I've made is when I don't focus on how I'm feeling but participate actively in recovery and life as fully as I'm able -- live, laugh, and love, even though those don't come as naturally as they used to.
I'm glad you came along and shared your experience -- it's always nice to find a kindred spirit, as some of the recovering alcoholics even in this highly-evolved forum don't experience anything like PAWS and dismiss it as being a kind of self-indulgent neurosis. In case you haven't searched already, there are a number of threads on SR devoted to PAWS. One of the most exhaustive (and perhaps exhausting) is this one: https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ht-go-mad.html (For those tortured by PAWS (Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms) and who fear they might go mad)
Welcome to SR, and thanks again for posting. I have every confidence that you'll feel better and better as you continue to stack sober time and grow in recovery.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,444
Welcome to SR jackattack 
The name post withdrawal, as I've always understood it, connotes that symptoms from early withdrawal occur again, so it's no surprise to me you might be familiar with some of the wrinkles.
D
D
The name post withdrawal, as I've always understood it, connotes that symptoms from early withdrawal occur again, so it's no surprise to me you might be familiar with some of the wrinkles.
D
D
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 675
Yeah I guess it's nice to know others still deal with some of these things too even after months of sobriety. I've reached 5 months and would say things have been steadily improving except this last week I had another run in with insomnia, which I honestly thought I had conquered. This sent me into meltdown mode. Crying alone at home like a crazy person. Not pleasant.
I guess it makes sense considering we spent years getting ourselves into this state, it'll probably take significant time to get out of it fully. Congrats on your 9 months, don't let the setbacks negate how big that is!
I guess it makes sense considering we spent years getting ourselves into this state, it'll probably take significant time to get out of it fully. Congrats on your 9 months, don't let the setbacks negate how big that is!
G-Woman
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Mississauga, ON
Posts: 979
Thanks for this articulate and detailed post! I'm almost at month 3, so I don't know if I've been through the worst of the symptoms yet.
My first VERY obvious sign of PAWs is a recurring BIZARRE cognitive issue I've been having. A few weeks ago I for the life of me couldn't remember my garage door code. This is a code that I memorized a long time ago, and even frequently have to remind my housemates of. I normally have no issues remembering numbers, codes, etc.
One day it was simply gone. Like it'd been plucked from my brain. The next day, I remembered it.
Then the other day the exact same thing happened - the code was gone again from my memory. Then again, a day later it returned.
I haven't had issues remembering ANYTHING ELSE, just this darn garage code. How strange is that?
My first VERY obvious sign of PAWs is a recurring BIZARRE cognitive issue I've been having. A few weeks ago I for the life of me couldn't remember my garage door code. This is a code that I memorized a long time ago, and even frequently have to remind my housemates of. I normally have no issues remembering numbers, codes, etc.
One day it was simply gone. Like it'd been plucked from my brain. The next day, I remembered it.
Then the other day the exact same thing happened - the code was gone again from my memory. Then again, a day later it returned.
I haven't had issues remembering ANYTHING ELSE, just this darn garage code. How strange is that?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by Andante 
I'd say "I could have written your post," but although our experiences match very closely, I could never have articulated mine so precisely or in so much detail. If you're like me, I'm guessing this post didn't exactly roll off your fingers and you had to spend quite some time composing and editing it? Perhaps you still felt dissatisfied with it despite all your efforts? All very familiar.
You particularly nailed the part about the sense of doom and anxiety, the feeling of being destined always to feel this terrible, and that memory and cognition issues were constantly getting worse. When I look back through my journals, there are repeated references to this.
Well, here's the good news: it gets better, not worse.
To be honest, I don't think I'll ever be 100% the way I was before I began drinking to excess, but I certainly feel loads better now than I did at 9 months sober (I'll be 5 years sober next Friday).
The main thing I've learned is that any effort I can make to avoid obsessing or over-analyzing my symptoms is a step in the right direction. Like you, at 9 months I was constantly thinking and worrying about it; nowadays it's not nearly so much of an issue (although I do have my moments). The most progress I've made is when I don't focus on how I'm feeling but participate actively in recovery and life as fully as I'm able -- live, laugh, and love, even though those don't come as naturally as they used to.
I'm glad you came along and shared your experience -- it's always nice to find a kindred spirit, as some of the recovering alcoholics even in this highly-evolved forum don't experience anything like PAWS and dismiss it as being a kind of self-indulgent neurosis. In case you haven't searched already, there are a number of threads on SR devoted to PAWS. One of the most exhaustive (and perhaps exhausting) is this one
Welcome to SR, and thanks again for posting. I have every confidence that you'll feel better and better as you continue to stack sober time and grow in recovery.
You particularly nailed the part about the sense of doom and anxiety, the feeling of being destined always to feel this terrible, and that memory and cognition issues were constantly getting worse. When I look back through my journals, there are repeated references to this.
Well, here's the good news: it gets better, not worse.
To be honest, I don't think I'll ever be 100% the way I was before I began drinking to excess, but I certainly feel loads better now than I did at 9 months sober (I'll be 5 years sober next Friday).
The main thing I've learned is that any effort I can make to avoid obsessing or over-analyzing my symptoms is a step in the right direction. Like you, at 9 months I was constantly thinking and worrying about it; nowadays it's not nearly so much of an issue (although I do have my moments). The most progress I've made is when I don't focus on how I'm feeling but participate actively in recovery and life as fully as I'm able -- live, laugh, and love, even though those don't come as naturally as they used to.
I'm glad you came along and shared your experience -- it's always nice to find a kindred spirit, as some of the recovering alcoholics even in this highly-evolved forum don't experience anything like PAWS and dismiss it as being a kind of self-indulgent neurosis. In case you haven't searched already, there are a number of threads on SR devoted to PAWS. One of the most exhaustive (and perhaps exhausting) is this one
Welcome to SR, and thanks again for posting. I have every confidence that you'll feel better and better as you continue to stack sober time and grow in recovery.
It's oddly reassuring when you discover that paws manifests in unique ways from person to person, but it's a godsend when you find others who are going through almost the same experiences as yourself... Makes you think that you may not actually be losing your mind and you just might make it through the other side one day.
I indeed did write the original post several times. Still not entirely sure if it all makes sense... After the nth proof read I just threw caution to the wind.
It's really great to hear that you're doing well and I appreciate your advice and support. Means a great deal at this point. Thanks.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by Cosima11
Yeah I guess it's nice to know others still deal with some of these things too even after months of sobriety. I've reached 5 months and would say things have been steadily improving except this last week I had another run in with insomnia, which I honestly thought I had conquered. This sent me into meltdown mode. Crying alone at home like a crazy person. Not pleasant.
I guess it makes sense considering we spent years getting ourselves into this state, it'll probably take significant time to get out of it fully. Congrats on your 9 months, don't let the setbacks negate how big that is!
I guess it makes sense considering we spent years getting ourselves into this state, it'll probably take significant time to get out of it fully. Congrats on your 9 months, don't let the setbacks negate how big that is!
You're right about spending years getting into to this situation. It's sage advice to remember that it may take a lot longer to feel better than you'd expect. Removing the alcohol is just the first part to the solution, you still need to heal whatever damage has been done I guess. I fell off my bike and broke my wrist several years ago and it took 3 whole months to fix - More than a decade worth of injuries to my poor old brain is likely going to take some time to heal.
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 675
Originally Posted by jackattack
Thanks a lot. Congrats on the 5 months, that seems like yesterday. Despite what I'm going through now, it's nothing like the first couple of months, just didn't expect to be feeling like this now.
You're right about spending years getting into to this situation. It's sage advice to remember that it may take a lot longer to feel better than you'd expect. Removing the alcohol is just the first part to the solution, you still need to heal whatever damage has been done I guess. I fell off my bike and broke my wrist several years ago and it took 3 whole months to fix - More than a decade worth of injuries to my poor old brain is likely going to take some time to heal.
You're right about spending years getting into to this situation. It's sage advice to remember that it may take a lot longer to feel better than you'd expect. Removing the alcohol is just the first part to the solution, you still need to heal whatever damage has been done I guess. I fell off my bike and broke my wrist several years ago and it took 3 whole months to fix - More than a decade worth of injuries to my poor old brain is likely going to take some time to heal.
Forum Leader
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 16,945
Congrats on 9 months Jack. Sorry you are having a rough time of it, and glad to hear that you are seeing a counselor and doc to keep on top of things. I had a lot of the same issues you did and it turned out it was mostly health anxiety and GAD that was the source of most of my problems. "PAWS" is certainly a phenomena that gets discussed a lot around here, but it also is not a diagnosable condition from either a physical or psychological standpoint. So while the symptoms are common to recovering addicts, I think you are doing the right thing by seeking help for the actual symptoms and taking action.
I didn't seek help for my anxiety until about a year and a half into being sober, I wish i had done it a lot sooner. It's a very treatable condition!
I didn't seek help for my anxiety until about a year and a half into being sober, I wish i had done it a lot sooner. It's a very treatable condition!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,100
First, I have to say thanks for the post and ditto to Andante, as I also have experienced a litany of symptoms that fortunately seem to be diminishing at the 7th month mark. The most vexing (read: relevant) ones in my experience were the aforementioned loss of time (mainly due to hyperfocus/distraction) and cognitive disruption (executive processing, verbal articulation)--all that were most heavily apparent in my workday and seemed to mimic ADHD and acute anxiety. I've had anxiety most of my adult life and there may have been more symptoms that I just took for granted because of that experience.
Everyone's physiology is obviously unique; I think the general sentiment is PAWS lasts for up to 6 months but I've seen data that say around a year and beyond. Not sure if your doc has mentioned treating anxiety or depression but they may be waiting until they can delineate what is truly the PAWS rewiring or biologically-based anxiety or depression. I'm surprised that exercise exacerbates symptoms; I'd think that endorphins would alleviate...interesting.
I'm currently using fitness and other methods (meditation, mental exercises) to address as I move forward in my sobriety. Improvement is there albeit slow.
Hope you are able to see that as well
T.
Everyone's physiology is obviously unique; I think the general sentiment is PAWS lasts for up to 6 months but I've seen data that say around a year and beyond. Not sure if your doc has mentioned treating anxiety or depression but they may be waiting until they can delineate what is truly the PAWS rewiring or biologically-based anxiety or depression. I'm surprised that exercise exacerbates symptoms; I'd think that endorphins would alleviate...interesting.
I'm currently using fitness and other methods (meditation, mental exercises) to address as I move forward in my sobriety. Improvement is there albeit slow.
Hope you are able to see that as well
T.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 34
I’m so glad that I found this post. I’m five months sober now and every time I feel like I’m getting better I get bad again the next week. A lot of my symptoms have gone away but the three or four main symptoms that are bothering me most of the time now are anxiety, derealization, confusion (brain fog), and light sensitivity. I’ve been looking for post like this to give me hope. I Google my symptoms and can’t find any like the thread I found tonight. I thought I was the only one that was going to the symptoms for this long. All of the websites say that most of the symptoms go away after 90 days. These past five months have been hell. I’ll drop down to part time at my work, I’ve lost my fiancé, and I’m not allowed to work out as long as I used to.My life has changed drastically these past five months and everyone I talk to about my problems has never heard anything like this so it was making me lose hope. Thanks everyone I can’t wait till I get to my nine months and even pass that. Good luck!
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
The book Living Sober is a great and simple overview of what the first year is like for many. It's not an AA publication but is published by Hazelden, a renowned rehab center. I believe it's a good read for anyone newly sober (i.e. The first one to two years).
I went through intense struggles when I first quit and they continued in some form for at least a year, some cropping up again here and there. Staying sober is the only way to get through and better. Now I deal with pretty much regular probs of a healthy 42 year old woman!
I went through intense struggles when I first quit and they continued in some form for at least a year, some cropping up again here and there. Staying sober is the only way to get through and better. Now I deal with pretty much regular probs of a healthy 42 year old woman!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Chicago
Posts: 605
There seems to be a constant battle over the existence of PAWS. Those who have experienced the symptoms believe it exists with 100% certainty. Those who have not believe its all in your head.
I for one, came here about two years ago because I had been sober for a few months and felt awful. I was experiencing about 90% of what you described in your first post. There was a thread here that explained Paws and gave me comfort that I wasn't going insane.
I had abused alcohol for 30 years so obviously there were going to be repercussions to that abuse. Imo, paws are the repercussions of the abuse. It takes the brain quite a while to "right" itself. I had the twitching, brain fog, dizziness, anxiety, etc...
Over time, almost 2 yrs, things have normalized. Am I 100% compared to what I was prior to abusing alcohol? Honestly, I don't know. I abused alcohol for so long it is hard to say what I was really like prior to it.
I do have times where I still feel off, but my mind is able to accept it now for what it is. I will say that my life now is immensely better then it was when I drank. I an deal with stress and disappointment better and I enjoy the good times more.
I've requoted this quite a few times, because it has helped me simply conceptualize why I felt the way I did.
If you walk 5 miles into the woods you need to walk five miles out.
btw great post and well written.
I for one, came here about two years ago because I had been sober for a few months and felt awful. I was experiencing about 90% of what you described in your first post. There was a thread here that explained Paws and gave me comfort that I wasn't going insane.
I had abused alcohol for 30 years so obviously there were going to be repercussions to that abuse. Imo, paws are the repercussions of the abuse. It takes the brain quite a while to "right" itself. I had the twitching, brain fog, dizziness, anxiety, etc...
Over time, almost 2 yrs, things have normalized. Am I 100% compared to what I was prior to abusing alcohol? Honestly, I don't know. I abused alcohol for so long it is hard to say what I was really like prior to it.
I do have times where I still feel off, but my mind is able to accept it now for what it is. I will say that my life now is immensely better then it was when I drank. I an deal with stress and disappointment better and I enjoy the good times more.
I've requoted this quite a few times, because it has helped me simply conceptualize why I felt the way I did.
If you walk 5 miles into the woods you need to walk five miles out.
btw great post and well written.
under new management
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 2,339
My best friend went through chemo, 4 different chemo drugs, every 2 weeks for 6 months.
What she has been experiencing, in her first year post chemo, is almost identical to the symptoms I experienced in my first year of sobriety. We often have compared our symptoms and shake our heads at the similarities.
IMHO, after massive amounts of chemicals/poison have been pumped into our bodies, for whatever reason, it takes more recovery time than the initial period of stopping those chemicals/poison.
I like the "5 miles into the woods, and 5 miles to get back out".
What she has been experiencing, in her first year post chemo, is almost identical to the symptoms I experienced in my first year of sobriety. We often have compared our symptoms and shake our heads at the similarities.
IMHO, after massive amounts of chemicals/poison have been pumped into our bodies, for whatever reason, it takes more recovery time than the initial period of stopping those chemicals/poison.
I like the "5 miles into the woods, and 5 miles to get back out".
Member
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by jackattack
I've just passed 9 months sober and I'm now on what I hope the be the tail end of a rather uncomfortable brush with PAWS again. In fact the last 9 months as a whole has hardly been a walk in the park. I thought I'd share a little with my experience in the hope that people can relate to what I'm going through, give some insight, gain some knowledge etc.
Firstly, I was never an all day drinker, binging was my forte which I think has contributed to the aggressiveness and unpredictability of my PAWs symptoms. Before anyone asks by the way, I'll preface to this too by mentioning that I've sought medical attention and have a clean bill of health according to the Doc.
PAWs for me tends to operate in cyclical fashion where I'll experience about a week of symptoms usually punctuated with one or two particularly horrible days in the middle. This will usually happen once a month I'd guess but the severity doesn't seem to follow a general downward trend which worries me to no end. For example, this one was/is terrible, the last one wasn't too bad, the one before that was worse than this one. Beyond that, there is always an undercurrent of feeling out of place and that PAWs will return at anytime. Symptoms generally include:
- Intense feeling of being physically and mentally uncomfortable with everything. Akin to the feeling you have when you have the flu - a general level of discomfort and malaise. It's almost like I'm acutely aware that I'm deficient in any type of relaxing or feel good neurotransitters at that point in time and it's almost painful.
- An odd sense of disconnection with time and reality that's really difficult to explain - It's almost like the part of my brain that knows who I am in time and space and where I fit into the world is permanently asleep until I have to consciously wake it up - I know who I am, who those are around me, where I am and when it is but this information isn't visceral - And as a result I constantly mix up names, the day/date, events etc unless I make a concerted effort to remember them. Example is that I stayed at a friends house last night out of town and I have driven 200km this morning - but I've all but lost any attachment to that experience, I'm just focused on now, not this morning, not in an hour, just now.. This symptom is probably the most worrying as it makes me feel like I'm just on the verge of loosing my mind or that I can't trust myself - Example is that I need to cook dinner tonight for when my girlfriend when she gets home from work - I'm pretty anxious that my mind isn't going to keep up it's side of the bargain and remember to go to the shops before she gets home.
- Trouble reading, recognising words, typing.
- Memory problems like forgetting where I parked my car. I can find this information if I really have to, but like above, I don't have it on hand in my head like I should.
- Thoughts that cycle around and around in my head - lack of ability to organise thoughts
- A feeling of being both tired and restless at the same time.
- Doom. A deep sense that something really bad is about to happen.
- Dreaming about stresses in my life and waking up early thinking about them - inability to fall back asleep.
- Lack of ability to prioritize, lack of mental direction
- Nervous energy that will have me compulsively performing actions like walking around the house
- Dissasociation, derealization and feeling like I'll pass out - I've narrowed some of this down to blood sugar problems.
- Dizziness, vertigo and balance issues.
- Significant and unrelenting health anxiety that has me compulsively checking the internet and freaking out about all of my symptoms. Fear that I'm going to loose my mind, that I have permanent damage etc. This one though is pretty much constant and most likely heralds a deeper problem unrelated to the alcohol.
- Fear and panic that will make me want to do anything to not be in the current situation I'm in.
- Brain fog and confusion - Although this is also present in some degree most of the time, but baseline does seem to be improving (???)
- Numerous physical symptoms such as headache, head and ear fullness, pressure behind my eyes, tinnitus, a jittery internal shakiness, shaky hands and muscle aches, jolts and twitches.
- Crippling fatigue from time to time - Sometimes I think I'm physically exhausted and need to sleep, other times I think that I just want to sleep to give my brain and my consciousness a rest.
- Photophobia, sensitivity to noise and easy to startle.
- Irritability and desire for personal space.
- Extreme sensitivity to smell - cigarette smoke would turn me into a psychopath in the early days and would set off all of my symptoms (most likely because I'd given up smoking too) but now it's not so bad. If you put a stick of incense anywhere near me though you'd be wise to steer clear for a while.
- Irrational outbursts and a short temper - I think this is linked to feeling uncomfortable too for some reason, can't quite pinpoint what's going on here.. due to the brain fog most likely.
- Lack of motivation, lack of empathy, lack of sense of humour but increase in emotional overreactions.
- Physical headache, wincing, brain fog when trying to listen to/understand people talking - this is an odd one that makes me quite sad at times because my girlfriend notices it and she can see it on my face when she talks to me.
- Guilt and a general sense that I'm not a great person deep down, low self esteem.
- A pattern of symptoms that generally is associated with times when I'd usually be abusing alcohol. Example being that this current episode coincides with 2 consecutive weekends away with friends/family where I'd usually be drinking heavily like everyone else... The last episode that was this bad was over new years eve where we went camping with friends - again, there would have been a lot of drinking had I not been sober. I've found that I've spent a lot of these times withdrawing from the group.
- A general sense of not fitting in with others/group activities.
Probably a whole bunch that I'm forgetting due to brain fog too.
Like I said, my doc has said that all tests point to me being a healthy guy in my early 30s. I'm currently seeing a psychologist to see if he can help at all and we're focussing on the health anxiety problems first.
One thing I'll mention about all of this though, and I wonder if anyone else experiences this but I feel that all of the symptoms that I experience are very resilient to relaxation exercises and CBT methods. Nothing seems to really make me able to come back down to earth and just relax for a couple of minutes. I've found that exercise does help but from time to time it can also significantly exacerbate my symptoms. Just thought I'd mention that.
I'd also like to say that I think that the name POST acute withdrawal syndrome may be somewhat of a misnomer (???). I feel like a lot of the symptoms that I'm experiencing were also present when I was still actively drinking and were a result of damage suffered from the alcohol and not the withdrawal - could be wrong on this though.
I'm really looking forward to the 12 month mark right now.. but the really disheartening thing is that at 6 months I was really looking forward to the 9 month mark. Now I'm here I think I feel worse than at 6 months... I just hope 12 months is better than it is right now.
Onwards and upwards I suppose.
Firstly, I was never an all day drinker, binging was my forte which I think has contributed to the aggressiveness and unpredictability of my PAWs symptoms. Before anyone asks by the way, I'll preface to this too by mentioning that I've sought medical attention and have a clean bill of health according to the Doc.
PAWs for me tends to operate in cyclical fashion where I'll experience about a week of symptoms usually punctuated with one or two particularly horrible days in the middle. This will usually happen once a month I'd guess but the severity doesn't seem to follow a general downward trend which worries me to no end. For example, this one was/is terrible, the last one wasn't too bad, the one before that was worse than this one. Beyond that, there is always an undercurrent of feeling out of place and that PAWs will return at anytime. Symptoms generally include:
- Intense feeling of being physically and mentally uncomfortable with everything. Akin to the feeling you have when you have the flu - a general level of discomfort and malaise. It's almost like I'm acutely aware that I'm deficient in any type of relaxing or feel good neurotransitters at that point in time and it's almost painful.
- An odd sense of disconnection with time and reality that's really difficult to explain - It's almost like the part of my brain that knows who I am in time and space and where I fit into the world is permanently asleep until I have to consciously wake it up - I know who I am, who those are around me, where I am and when it is but this information isn't visceral - And as a result I constantly mix up names, the day/date, events etc unless I make a concerted effort to remember them. Example is that I stayed at a friends house last night out of town and I have driven 200km this morning - but I've all but lost any attachment to that experience, I'm just focused on now, not this morning, not in an hour, just now.. This symptom is probably the most worrying as it makes me feel like I'm just on the verge of loosing my mind or that I can't trust myself - Example is that I need to cook dinner tonight for when my girlfriend when she gets home from work - I'm pretty anxious that my mind isn't going to keep up it's side of the bargain and remember to go to the shops before she gets home.
- Trouble reading, recognising words, typing.
- Memory problems like forgetting where I parked my car. I can find this information if I really have to, but like above, I don't have it on hand in my head like I should.
- Thoughts that cycle around and around in my head - lack of ability to organise thoughts
- A feeling of being both tired and restless at the same time.
- Doom. A deep sense that something really bad is about to happen.
- Dreaming about stresses in my life and waking up early thinking about them - inability to fall back asleep.
- Lack of ability to prioritize, lack of mental direction
- Nervous energy that will have me compulsively performing actions like walking around the house
- Dissasociation, derealization and feeling like I'll pass out - I've narrowed some of this down to blood sugar problems.
- Dizziness, vertigo and balance issues.
- Significant and unrelenting health anxiety that has me compulsively checking the internet and freaking out about all of my symptoms. Fear that I'm going to loose my mind, that I have permanent damage etc. This one though is pretty much constant and most likely heralds a deeper problem unrelated to the alcohol.
- Fear and panic that will make me want to do anything to not be in the current situation I'm in.
- Brain fog and confusion - Although this is also present in some degree most of the time, but baseline does seem to be improving (???)
- Numerous physical symptoms such as headache, head and ear fullness, pressure behind my eyes, tinnitus, a jittery internal shakiness, shaky hands and muscle aches, jolts and twitches.
- Crippling fatigue from time to time - Sometimes I think I'm physically exhausted and need to sleep, other times I think that I just want to sleep to give my brain and my consciousness a rest.
- Photophobia, sensitivity to noise and easy to startle.
- Irritability and desire for personal space.
- Extreme sensitivity to smell - cigarette smoke would turn me into a psychopath in the early days and would set off all of my symptoms (most likely because I'd given up smoking too) but now it's not so bad. If you put a stick of incense anywhere near me though you'd be wise to steer clear for a while.
- Irrational outbursts and a short temper - I think this is linked to feeling uncomfortable too for some reason, can't quite pinpoint what's going on here.. due to the brain fog most likely.
- Lack of motivation, lack of empathy, lack of sense of humour but increase in emotional overreactions.
- Physical headache, wincing, brain fog when trying to listen to/understand people talking - this is an odd one that makes me quite sad at times because my girlfriend notices it and she can see it on my face when she talks to me.
- Guilt and a general sense that I'm not a great person deep down, low self esteem.
- A pattern of symptoms that generally is associated with times when I'd usually be abusing alcohol. Example being that this current episode coincides with 2 consecutive weekends away with friends/family where I'd usually be drinking heavily like everyone else... The last episode that was this bad was over new years eve where we went camping with friends - again, there would have been a lot of drinking had I not been sober. I've found that I've spent a lot of these times withdrawing from the group.
- A general sense of not fitting in with others/group activities.
Probably a whole bunch that I'm forgetting due to brain fog too.
Like I said, my doc has said that all tests point to me being a healthy guy in my early 30s. I'm currently seeing a psychologist to see if he can help at all and we're focussing on the health anxiety problems first.
One thing I'll mention about all of this though, and I wonder if anyone else experiences this but I feel that all of the symptoms that I experience are very resilient to relaxation exercises and CBT methods. Nothing seems to really make me able to come back down to earth and just relax for a couple of minutes. I've found that exercise does help but from time to time it can also significantly exacerbate my symptoms. Just thought I'd mention that.
I'd also like to say that I think that the name POST acute withdrawal syndrome may be somewhat of a misnomer (???). I feel like a lot of the symptoms that I'm experiencing were also present when I was still actively drinking and were a result of damage suffered from the alcohol and not the withdrawal - could be wrong on this though.
I'm really looking forward to the 12 month mark right now.. but the really disheartening thing is that at 6 months I was really looking forward to the 9 month mark. Now I'm here I think I feel worse than at 6 months... I just hope 12 months is better than it is right now.
Onwards and upwards I suppose.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 43
Dee, if you happen to read this, could you re-post that wonderful graphic of the squiggly arrow of progress we will all likely go through. When I am cycling through stages and moods, when I think of that arrow, it makes me chuckle in recognition.
I am familiar with PAWS from my current time quitting 10 weeks ago, and from past times. It is tough, and is probably why I had relapsed the previous time I quit 4 years ago.
I have found it reassuring that other people have lived through it- sober- that it can be a formidable problem, but as long as we have a plan and a program, we are doing what we can, and find support here and elsewhere, we will learn to cope.
Hang in there!
I am familiar with PAWS from my current time quitting 10 weeks ago, and from past times. It is tough, and is probably why I had relapsed the previous time I quit 4 years ago.
I have found it reassuring that other people have lived through it- sober- that it can be a formidable problem, but as long as we have a plan and a program, we are doing what we can, and find support here and elsewhere, we will learn to cope.
Hang in there!
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