Doug39

I am almost 13 months sober.

I have felt really good the last month or so - maybe too good. I celebrated my one year sober, I did my first AA lead and it went well, I chaired two AA meetings in October, and most everything in my life is going good.

Then yesterday I started feeling odd and today I am back to experiencing some of those awful PAWS symptoms - dread, lack of ambition, feeling spaced out, fatigue, just general blah.

It may be that I was riding that wave of good events and now that things are just normal I am low - not to mention the stress of the holiday season.

Thanks for listening.

Andante

Whew, I'm glad it's not just me...

I had the worst recurrence of PAWS symptoms yesterday that I've had for the longest time. Not quite "Day 1" territory, but definitely vexing, as I thought I was past all that.

Maybe there really is a seasonal component to it -- it seems like there's been an uptick in posts on SR just lately about anxiety, anhedonia, lack of motivation, fatigue, etc.

Nowhere is it written that we're entitled to feel good all the time. We're simply going to have bad days sometimes -- and in a way I think they're necessary in order to give the good days context.

I have trouble keeping all the posters straight around here, but yours stand out to me since we both had bad bouts of PAWS symptoms early on. I've noticed the amazing progress you've made in recent months. You're doing great work, congratulations! I hope you won't let a little recurrence of PAWS symptoms get you down, although believe me when I say I know how frustrating it can be!

Hope you feel better soon!

ScottFromWI

I think there's probably a lot of factors at play Doug. And I also feel we many times just use "PAWS" as a catch all for anytime we are feeling bad without an obvious reason. PAWS is not a diagnosable condition that can be treated, it's really just wide array of symptoms that are sometimes found in addicts after acute withdrawal is done.

I have personally found it a lot more productive to try and find solutions for the actual symptoms I was having - because I definitely had bad days, even a year and a half/2 years after quitting. Working on my diet, exercises, treating my anxiety in various ways, cutting back on caffiene and sugar, and other things really helped a lot.

I think as addicts we also have an unrealistic expectation/need to "Feel good" all the time. Life doesn't work that way unforutnately, and we will always have bad days - due to illness, family and job issues, weather, you name it. That's part of the reason we used in the first place...to try and escape/avoid feeling "bad" because of those things. And getting sober is HARD...because we do have to start facing them and feeling bad sometimes, it's just a part of life unfortunately.

You are doing great and your progress has been well documented here - and you should be proud of it. Keep at it - because bad days don't last forever!

Wholesome

I have felt great since I quit up until the last month or so...... I think I've been experiencing some PAWS. My memory hasn't been right, my energy levels are super low although I am on night shifts and the grey weather has sucked. I've also found myself stuttering on occasion, something I've never done before. I'm definitely having some anhedonia and have generally lost interest in most things.

Nothing much to be done about it except for waiting it out and keep putting one foot in front of the other until it passes.... which I'm sure it will. For now I'm sleeping if I want to and trying to go easy on myself and not worry too much, which is hard because I'm a worrier by nature.

DayTrader

How does one determine the difference between PAWS and untreated alcoholism?

Shitzupuppy

I have some great days and some low days, but most are generally good. On the bad days, they are just bad days. I don’t think about them being related to PAWS. It never crosses my mind to do that.
Like they say, some days you’re the windshield, some days you’re the bug! Just the way life is!

Doug39

I don't know.

Sometimes I think I want to feel bad - I felt bad for so long that my mind thinks that feeling bad is "normal". Or it is my alcoholic voice telling me to "take a drink and you will feel better".

Point being if I do all this work to get better and once I get there I self sabotage and still feel like crap, what is the point?

August252015

Untreated alcoholism means "still drinking" to me. If that's what you meant, then the difference with PAWS (or any symptoms we have related to the changes our bodies go through in the one to TWO years of early sobriety) is clear.

Doug- congrats on your sobriety and recovery!! I went through what could only be called severe PAWS after my initial pains of withdrawal. I was VERY sick when I quit. As my first year went by, I found different PAWS- like things, or what I took as further indication of my body healing- at different points. Hand shakes (mild), fuzzy thinking or forgetfulness, difficulty sleeping and night sweats (still struggle with that here at almost 21mo) - last fall, a series of bad colds and strep that took me out of work....as this year has gone by, I find that the sleep issues and lately dry mouth are the kinds of stuff I (gladly) suffer as my body keeps getting stronger.

Keep going- i think of the horrifying things I went through when drinking and am grateful that the physical and mental things that pop up to bother me are a far better deal!

zjw

BINGO! this is me. I think i'm just hard wired to feel bad its all i friggen know. All my child hood was sspent being told i'm a piece of crap I grew up and thought "i'm a piece of crap" I tend to tell myself how crappy i am more often then not becuase its all anyone told me growing up or all i ever heard anyhow.

Then if things get going its so easy to self sabatoge. LIke hey i got my debt paid off and my credit scores rising and then that voice is like hey how bout buy a new car? Get in over your head again? go on!

The drinking is the same thign AV is always suggesting a drink.

I think the kicker is tho it doesnt have to be this way. When i got sober and started to have those genuine happy times it was like I saw a part of life I didnt even know existed and when I realized it I felt i was not good enough to expiereince it or didnt deserver to or shouldnt or somehow it was wrong for me to feel good about something. But again this is all i new. Growing up in an abusive house for example one time i got a tv for christmas only to be told oh that was nice of your grandmotehr to buy you that for christmas we can put it in the living room cause you cant have it. and I never got it it was taken away ebfore it ever got to open the box. The point being i'm so used to something good happenign and it being snatched away from me too so I just wait for the rug to be pulled out from under neath me.

The reality is it is ok to feel happy. We dont have to sit in our own poo just because its warm and cozy and all we know.

JeffreyAK

Well I guess if you're done drinking and withdrawing from it, there's your answer.

I think the usual rule of thumb is, PAWS can go on for up to 2 years. I had occasional symptoms up to about 1.5 years after I quit, but they were increasingly rare as I stabilized. Remember, life has ups and downs too, regardless of past alcohol use. Sometimes we forget this (or never noticed) because we used to be drunk most of the time.

tomsteve

or just normal feelings/emotions?

ScottFromWI

I don't think you really can because neither can actually be quantified/defined. "PAWS" is not a diagnosable condition either from a medical or psychological standpoint. It's mainly a term that has been invented by the recovery community to help explain a wide range of symptoms common to recovering addicts.

And "untreated alcoholism" is a term that is mainly used by 12 step recovery programs, so in a sense it can also only be defined by the individual if they are a follower of said program.

I personally feel that the answer is "it doesn't matter". The symptoms of either are definable and treatable through various methods( recovery, medical, psychological ).

Change4good

I agree with everything Scott says here. I have friends who are not alcoholics who experience bouts of depression, blues, malaise. They wouldn't call it PAWS, as that doesn't apply to them. But symptoms manifest the same way.

In no way am I trying to suggest that you aren't experiencing PAWS, only that as Scott says, it may also be part of this thing called life. Congrats on your progress, and know that tides always turn. Hell, we wouldn't know good times if we didn't have some bad times as well.

ljc267

I have suffered the symptoms of paws while I recovered. To me I think it is more of a neurological issue then anything else. I've read quite a bit about the effects of alcohol on your brain and it does a number on the way your brain communicates with the rest of your body. Alcohol basically slows the transmission of signals to the rest of your body. That is why you lose your balance or slur while drunk.

My opinion here: We have drank so much and for so long that our brains are used to being in that state. Bottom line, it just takes a lot of time for our brains to start working properly again. Our brain controls every aspect of our body, so if it is not working properly the rest of our body while not either.

If have noticed that even at over a year sober that when I am reminded of a bad memory or have a feeling that I did while drinking it puts me back there mentally, which in turn gets me down. I've been working on accepting that his will happen from time to time and not make more out of the event then what it is.

ScottFromWI

I would agree with this premise too. It took the better part of 3 years after I quit to finally start getting a handle on my anxiety and some other issues.

Doug39

This is me exactly. This is my struggle.



I just got back from an AA meeting and talked about this problem in discussion - I got a lot of good feedback from them and as well as everybody here on this Forum.

Thanks.

SoberCAH

You have done an excellent job, Doug.

Thanks for sharing your struggles.

We have all had them and there will be more to follow.

But I haven't had to take a drink yet, and my problems today are fairly minor issues compared to the ones I had when I drank.

ljc267

I think it is similar to ptsd. That period of time definitely brings back negative feelings and thoughts for me and for most I would assume. Those negative thoughts can bring on emotional and physical symptoms.

I have found it helps to acknowledge the thoughts or feelings, accept them, and move on. Certainly its not a cure all, but it does help to rectify it in my mind. Also, I am working on not being so hard on myself. I expect perfection and when my goals don't meet the outcome I get down on myself.

Doug39

I do this too.

I also beat myself up if I have to say "no" to somebody. I try not to be the self centered jerk I was all my life so now I am trying to help others - but sometimes I have to say "no" and it bothers me.

I also have to stop thriving for perfection and stop thinking that someday I will reach this peace of mind and magical place where everything in life is wonderful. I know this will never happen but I keep pushing for it. It is enough to drive me nuts.

I need to just take life one day at a time or even one hour at a time and enjoy life instead of going over past mistakes over and over or worrying about future events that might go wrong.

zjw

I sometimes joke that i suffer from a serious condition called "life"