Interesting research on AA - attending meetings vs. helping others
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 446
Interesting research on AA - attending meetings vs. helping others
We recently had a lively discussion about the struggle to balance AA meetings and family commitments, so I decided to dig deeper and found some interesting research on factors that impact relapse rates:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...9/#!po=43.5484
In a nutshell, the outcome of the study is as follows:
"Those (alcoholics) who were helping (other alcoholics) were significantly less likely to relapse in the year following treatment, independent of the number of AA meetings attended."
The study is about "Helping Other Alcoholics in Alcoholics Anonymous and Drinking Outcomes" and the findings of this study seem to confirm a member's intuition (from the same thread a few days ago) about what steps were most important (1, 10, 11, and 12): It seems that being a sponsor and/or being in other service functions dramatically reduces the relapse rates! It is the WORK that counts, and not so much the attendance.
The study also seems to suggest that service to others (family, workplace, community) could have a similar effect, so shifting one's obsession with alcohol to being 'obsessed' with helping others really seems to be key.
Since it seems that in the beginning it is useful for people to attend as many meetings as possible to learn the ropes (how to deal with cravings, intro to step work, exposure to the AA community), but then after a while you really improve your chances of staying recovered by playing an active role and helping others.
From your own experience, does this make sense? And please, let's not make this another 'Is AA good or not?' discussion, my question is simply this:
'Do you think helping others increases your chances of staying recovered?'. Thanks!
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...9/#!po=43.5484
In a nutshell, the outcome of the study is as follows:
"Those (alcoholics) who were helping (other alcoholics) were significantly less likely to relapse in the year following treatment, independent of the number of AA meetings attended."
The study is about "Helping Other Alcoholics in Alcoholics Anonymous and Drinking Outcomes" and the findings of this study seem to confirm a member's intuition (from the same thread a few days ago) about what steps were most important (1, 10, 11, and 12): It seems that being a sponsor and/or being in other service functions dramatically reduces the relapse rates! It is the WORK that counts, and not so much the attendance.
The study also seems to suggest that service to others (family, workplace, community) could have a similar effect, so shifting one's obsession with alcohol to being 'obsessed' with helping others really seems to be key.
Since it seems that in the beginning it is useful for people to attend as many meetings as possible to learn the ropes (how to deal with cravings, intro to step work, exposure to the AA community), but then after a while you really improve your chances of staying recovered by playing an active role and helping others.
From your own experience, does this make sense? And please, let's not make this another 'Is AA good or not?' discussion, my question is simply this:
'Do you think helping others increases your chances of staying recovered?'. Thanks!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,095
Of course helping others and being active is the key to maintaining sobriety.
I currently go to 7 to 12 meetings a week, I have chaired, lead, got donuts, set up, cleaned up, picked up people, dropped off people, sponsored, etc etc and I have only been in the program about 11 months.
I can now tell which people are not going to make it because they are just taking up space and fooling themselves - I have been trying to help out this 68 year old dude that has been in and out of AA since 1988 - he just can't get it.
I currently go to 7 to 12 meetings a week, I have chaired, lead, got donuts, set up, cleaned up, picked up people, dropped off people, sponsored, etc etc and I have only been in the program about 11 months.
I can now tell which people are not going to make it because they are just taking up space and fooling themselves - I have been trying to help out this 68 year old dude that has been in and out of AA since 1988 - he just can't get it.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 1,072
"Selfishness--self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles..... So our troubles, we think, are basically of our own making. They arise out of ourselves, and the alcoholic is an extreme example of self-will run riot, though he usually doesn't think so. Above everything, we alcoholics must be rid of this selfishness."
If you believe as I do that selfishness and self centeredness are the root cause of our problems then it makes perfect sense that service work (helping others) which is the antithesis of selfishness is going to help us stay sober. In my view service work (inside AA or elsewhere in the community) is essential to the maintenance of my spiritual condition.
If you believe as I do that selfishness and self centeredness are the root cause of our problems then it makes perfect sense that service work (helping others) which is the antithesis of selfishness is going to help us stay sober. In my view service work (inside AA or elsewhere in the community) is essential to the maintenance of my spiritual condition.
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
I am one to live in 1, 10, 11 and 12. For me - 12 hasn't meant the coffee cup routine, but in my home group i have certainly led meetings, been the discussion leader....for me, service of small and big manner is often found outside the rooms.
I also don't think it's an either/or scenarios, nor that any number of meetings keep me sober. My sweet spot for meetings (4-6 a week, here at almost 21 mo) is more to keep me emotionally balanced, learn from others, and keep that part of my schedule a primary focus. I will always have more to learn- and in turn, share with others by my talk, actions, and every day life.
I also don't think it's an either/or scenarios, nor that any number of meetings keep me sober. My sweet spot for meetings (4-6 a week, here at almost 21 mo) is more to keep me emotionally balanced, learn from others, and keep that part of my schedule a primary focus. I will always have more to learn- and in turn, share with others by my talk, actions, and every day life.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
the program as lined out in the Bb pretty much says that:
step 12:
....practice these principles in all our affairs.
Our real purpose is to fit ourselves to be of maximum service to God and the people about us.
Since the home has suffered more than anything else, it is well that a man exert himself there
and one part i see quite a few( including myself) miss:
None of us makes a sole vocation of this work, nor do we think its effectiveness would be increased if we did. We feel that elimination of our drinking is but a beginning. A much more important demonstration of our principles lies before us in our respective homes, occupations and affairs. All of us spend much of our spare time in the sort of effort which we are going to describe.
step 12:
....practice these principles in all our affairs.
Our real purpose is to fit ourselves to be of maximum service to God and the people about us.
Since the home has suffered more than anything else, it is well that a man exert himself there
and one part i see quite a few( including myself) miss:
None of us makes a sole vocation of this work, nor do we think its effectiveness would be increased if we did. We feel that elimination of our drinking is but a beginning. A much more important demonstration of our principles lies before us in our respective homes, occupations and affairs. All of us spend much of our spare time in the sort of effort which we are going to describe.
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
I have read other studies that reach the same conclusion, something that AA has known for quite a while. It certanly matches my experience and observations over many years in AA. I travel a lot, and I notice the guys that stay are the ones that get busy helping others. The rest are just a passing parade.
One which are the most important steps, step one was not enough to get me sober, and if I had skipped steps 2-9 I never would have been able to live steps 10, 11, 12, firstly because I would have got drunk, and secondly because I would have no understanding of the principles in 10,11 and 12 which are a summary of steps 1-9. All twelve steps were required for me to recover to that standard set in the big book.
One which are the most important steps, step one was not enough to get me sober, and if I had skipped steps 2-9 I never would have been able to live steps 10, 11, 12, firstly because I would have got drunk, and secondly because I would have no understanding of the principles in 10,11 and 12 which are a summary of steps 1-9. All twelve steps were required for me to recover to that standard set in the big book.
Guest
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,271
Early on, when I attended meetings, it was for "me" and me alone. I was in victim mode and needed to vent. I wanted you all to "fix me".
A little more time passed, and I'd do things for others. However, it came from a place of ego "look at me, look at how nice and helpful I am" than from spirit.
Now some years later in recovery, and I love being on the lookout to be of service. It comes solely from the heart. I do things like go out of my way to hold the door for people, and give them a big warm smile. I move carts for people so they can pull into their spots. I pick up clothes that fell off of hangers as I'm walking through a store. It feels so good.
The other day at Dunkin Donuts, I was getting a cup of coffee. One of their employees I see there sometimes was online in back of me. I paid for her coffee and said "Enjoy! Have a great day!" (This sorta thing isn't always easy for me to do, because I'm still socially awkward in recovery but am getting better). I noticed two little girls witnessed my random act of kindness and that is what it's all about, too.
Going to meetings didn't teach me this. Step work did.
However--one of my favorite circuit speakers talks about how early on he was complaining to his sponsor about his wife, his money problems, etc. His sponsor's reply was "I think it's time you made the coffee for the meeting." At the time of course he didn't see the connection and probably copped a resentment, lol. But the simple act of getting to the meeting on time every week to make coffee for others was really life changing for him. He never did stuff for others in this sort of way.
He also talks about how many of us in the beginning go to AA to "get", and then once we do the step work and get well, we go to meetings to "give". It's been true in my experience, too.
A little more time passed, and I'd do things for others. However, it came from a place of ego "look at me, look at how nice and helpful I am" than from spirit.
Now some years later in recovery, and I love being on the lookout to be of service. It comes solely from the heart. I do things like go out of my way to hold the door for people, and give them a big warm smile. I move carts for people so they can pull into their spots. I pick up clothes that fell off of hangers as I'm walking through a store. It feels so good.
The other day at Dunkin Donuts, I was getting a cup of coffee. One of their employees I see there sometimes was online in back of me. I paid for her coffee and said "Enjoy! Have a great day!" (This sorta thing isn't always easy for me to do, because I'm still socially awkward in recovery but am getting better). I noticed two little girls witnessed my random act of kindness and that is what it's all about, too.
Going to meetings didn't teach me this. Step work did.
However--one of my favorite circuit speakers talks about how early on he was complaining to his sponsor about his wife, his money problems, etc. His sponsor's reply was "I think it's time you made the coffee for the meeting." At the time of course he didn't see the connection and probably copped a resentment, lol. But the simple act of getting to the meeting on time every week to make coffee for others was really life changing for him. He never did stuff for others in this sort of way.
He also talks about how many of us in the beginning go to AA to "get", and then once we do the step work and get well, we go to meetings to "give". It's been true in my experience, too.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
Oh yes, it's so true. We alcoholics are self-centered in the extreme and AA's program of helping other alcoholics helps us get out of the self-absorption. I sponsor three women and have learned so much about myself, my own disease, from them. Other studies have shown that people are happiest when they're doing service.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 446
Guys,
Thanks for the responses. Many of you responded to the question 'Do you think helping others increases your chances of staying recovered?' with 'Well, duh!'. It was really more of a rhetorical question, lol!
I now realize that I should have asked 'Do you know that helping other alcoholics DOUBLES your chances of staying recovered?'.
A quote from the study: 'Among those who were helping other alcoholics, 40% of participants avoided taking a drink in the year after treatment, whereas, among those who were not helping other alcoholics, only 22% avoided taking a drink.'
I think this is simply mind boggling, here's the link again:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...9/#!po=43.5484
Thanks for the responses. Many of you responded to the question 'Do you think helping others increases your chances of staying recovered?' with 'Well, duh!'. It was really more of a rhetorical question, lol!
I now realize that I should have asked 'Do you know that helping other alcoholics DOUBLES your chances of staying recovered?'.
A quote from the study: 'Among those who were helping other alcoholics, 40% of participants avoided taking a drink in the year after treatment, whereas, among those who were not helping other alcoholics, only 22% avoided taking a drink.'
I think this is simply mind boggling, here's the link again:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...9/#!po=43.5484
Forum Leader
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 16,945
Originally Posted by Mac4711 
I now realize that I should have asked 'Do you know that helping other alcoholics DOUBLES your chances of staying recovered?'.
A quote from the study: 'Among those who were helping other alcoholics, 40% of participants avoided taking a drink in the year after treatment, whereas, among those who were not helping other alcoholics, only 22% avoided taking a drink.'
A quote from the study: 'Among those who were helping other alcoholics, 40% of participants avoided taking a drink in the year after treatment, whereas, among those who were not helping other alcoholics, only 22% avoided taking a drink.'
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 446
Originally Posted by ScottFromWI
I think it's a very encouraging stat, but I don't really find it surprising at all. People who are also helping others are also most likely more involved in the program ( whattever it might be) as well. And we know that no matter what your recovery program is, the more work you put in the more you get back out.
Fair enough, but you are not the intended recipient of this message -
the fact that you've been sober for a long time shows that you've already 'got it' aka survivor bias.
I really want to drive home the message for us noobs, the sub one years: To many of us this must be surprising news and that's why we have 80% relapse rates.
So that's why I'm hoping people will learn from that, because it gives them a better understanding of what a successful recovery process entails!
Forum Leader
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 16,945
Originally Posted by Mac4711
Scott,
Fair enough, but you are not the intended recipient of this message -
the fact that you've been sober for a long time shows that you've already 'got it' aka survivor bias.
I really want to drive home the message for us noobs, the sub one years: To many of us this must be surprising news and that's why we have 80% relapse rates.
So that's why I'm hoping people will learn from that, because it gives them a better understanding of what a successful recovery process entails!
Fair enough, but you are not the intended recipient of this message -
the fact that you've been sober for a long time shows that you've already 'got it' aka survivor bias.
I really want to drive home the message for us noobs, the sub one years: To many of us this must be surprising news and that's why we have 80% relapse rates.
So that's why I'm hoping people will learn from that, because it gives them a better understanding of what a successful recovery process entails!
The actual statistics of any survey should always be taken with a grain of salt. This particular survey has been posted here on SR many times and as some have suggested it may have a bias - most surveys do.
Regarding the "audience" - remember that all posts here on SR are available to and read by people of all walks of life. I think the underlying message here of helping others can certainly apply to anyone, regardless if they have 5 days, 5 weeks or 5 years of sobriety.
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