carry the message to the one who still suffers
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carry the message to the one who still suffers
Tradition Five: Each group has but one primary purpose-to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers.
a lot of talk these days about being powerless to help the alcoholic in any way
to a point this may be true
AA Big Book quotes
When one experiences a "vital spiritual experience" as described by Dr. Carl Jung on p. 27
When one experiences the psychic phenomenon known as "the 9th Step Promises" on p. 83-84
SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE
The terms “spiritual experience” and “spiritual awakening” are used many times in this book which, upon careful reading, shows that the personality change sufficient to bring about recovery from alcoholism has manifested itself among us in many different forms.
Yet it is true that our first printing gave many readers the impression that these personality changes, or religious experiences, must be in the nature of sudden and spectacular upheavals. Happily for everyone, this conclusion is erroneous.
In the first few chapters a number of sudden revolutionary changes are described. Though it was not our intention to create such an impression, many alcoholics have nevertheless concluded that in order to recover they must acquire an immediate and overwhelming “God-consciousness” followed at once by a vast change in feeling and outlook.
Among our rapidly growing membership of thousands of alcoholics such transformations, though frequent, are by no means the rule. Most of our experiences are what the psychologist William James calls the “educational variety” because they develop slowly over a period of time. Quite often friends of the newcomer are aware of the difference long before he is himself. He finally realizes that he has undergone a profound alteration in his reaction to life; that such a change could hardly have been brought about by himself alone. What often takes place in a few months could seldom have been accomplished by years of self-discipline. With few exceptions our members find that they have tapped an unsuspected inner resource which they presently identify with their own conception of a Power greater than themselves.
Most of us think this awareness of a Power greater than ourselves is the essence of spiritual experience. Our more religious members call it “God-consciousness.”
Most emphatically we wish to say that any alcoholic capable of honestly facing his problems in the light of our experience can recover, provided he does not close his mind to all spiritual concepts. He can only be defeated by an attitude of intolerance or belligerent denial.
We find that no one need have difficulty with the spirituality of the program. Willingness, honesty and open mindedness are the essentials of recovery. But these are indispensable.
“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—that principle is contempt prior to investigation.”
—Herbert Spencer
a lot of talk these days about being powerless to help the alcoholic in any way
to a point this may be true
AA Big Book quotes
When one experiences a "vital spiritual experience" as described by Dr. Carl Jung on p. 27
When one experiences the psychic phenomenon known as "the 9th Step Promises" on p. 83-84
SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE
The terms “spiritual experience” and “spiritual awakening” are used many times in this book which, upon careful reading, shows that the personality change sufficient to bring about recovery from alcoholism has manifested itself among us in many different forms.
Yet it is true that our first printing gave many readers the impression that these personality changes, or religious experiences, must be in the nature of sudden and spectacular upheavals. Happily for everyone, this conclusion is erroneous.
In the first few chapters a number of sudden revolutionary changes are described. Though it was not our intention to create such an impression, many alcoholics have nevertheless concluded that in order to recover they must acquire an immediate and overwhelming “God-consciousness” followed at once by a vast change in feeling and outlook.
Among our rapidly growing membership of thousands of alcoholics such transformations, though frequent, are by no means the rule. Most of our experiences are what the psychologist William James calls the “educational variety” because they develop slowly over a period of time. Quite often friends of the newcomer are aware of the difference long before he is himself. He finally realizes that he has undergone a profound alteration in his reaction to life; that such a change could hardly have been brought about by himself alone. What often takes place in a few months could seldom have been accomplished by years of self-discipline. With few exceptions our members find that they have tapped an unsuspected inner resource which they presently identify with their own conception of a Power greater than themselves.
Most of us think this awareness of a Power greater than ourselves is the essence of spiritual experience. Our more religious members call it “God-consciousness.”
Most emphatically we wish to say that any alcoholic capable of honestly facing his problems in the light of our experience can recover, provided he does not close his mind to all spiritual concepts. He can only be defeated by an attitude of intolerance or belligerent denial.
We find that no one need have difficulty with the spirituality of the program. Willingness, honesty and open mindedness are the essentials of recovery. But these are indispensable.
“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—that principle is contempt prior to investigation.”
—Herbert Spencer
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: London
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I guess it's much easier to help those who want to be helped. I have tried with those who don't and it rarely works, except for a couple of times. Just chatting informally, without sounding too much like you are trying to get a message across. It sometimes triggers something in people.
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there is hope
Originally Posted by KateL 
I guess it's much easier to help those who want to be helped. I have tried with those who don't and it rarely works, except for a couple of times. Just chatting informally, without sounding too much like you are trying to get a message across. It sometimes triggers something in people.
when do we give up and move on to another who may be ready to stop
possibly sometimes
we are planting the seed for later ??
many times seems best
to just share where we were in our drinking and or using
and how it is today being sober
“spiritual experience” and “spiritual awakening” --- possibly sharing what God has done for us ??
there is hope for the one who is willing --- has a desire to stop drinking
MM
Recovery Padawan
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: London, England
Posts: 39
I agree that the person the help is being offered to needs to want to be helped first. From my own experience knowing that there were people around offering help should I wish to get back on the sobriety train was encouraging. I still had to decide under my own steam that enough was enough though.
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Maine
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Originally Posted by Mountainmanbob
many times seems best
to just share where we were in our drinking and or using
and how it is today being sober
MM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by KateL
I guess it's much easier to help those who want to be helped. I have tried with those who don't and it rarely works, except for a couple of times. Just chatting informally, without sounding too much like you are trying to get a message across. It sometimes triggers something in people.
I think there was something about bill w talkin to doc silkworth. bill was all bummed out about not being very successful with anyone. doc said something to the effect:"don't preach."
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by Mountainmanbob
yes it's a hard one to understand at times
when do we give up and move on to another who may be ready to stop
possibly sometimes
we are planting the seed for later ??
MM
when do we give up and move on to another who may be ready to stop
possibly sometimes
we are planting the seed for later ??
MM
ask God for clarity.
check my motives.
Do not be discouraged if your prospect does not respond at once. Search out another alcoholic and try again. You are sure to find someone desperate enough to accept with eagerness what you offer. We find it a waste of time to keep chasing a man who cannot or will not work with you. If you leave such a person alone, he may soon become convinced that he cannot recover by himself. To spend too much time on any one situation is to deny some other alcoholic an opportunity to live and be happy. One of our Fellowship failed entirely with his first half dozen prospects. He often says that if he had continued to work on them, he might have deprived many others, who have since recovered, of their chance.
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Originally Posted by KateL
I have tried with those who don't and it rarely works, except for a couple of times.
rarely works -- I agree
but
you do mention -- except for a couple of times (maybe that was me) ??
guess only God knows for sure ??
MM
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Nottingham (UK)
Posts: 2,690
Kinda makes you realise that we are the lucky ones -we've realised the problem and are doing something about it.
I don't think it would have worked for me, people trying to get me to quit - in the past it made me drink as a 'FU' type of thing.
SR shows that when people get curious and delve into researching how their feeling/acting, they start to see comparisons and take things into their own hands.
Perhaps the best way, is to direct them to SR and let them learn for themselves? I'm not discounting AA in this, it's just the fame it has, is off-putting to a lot of people who are just starting out.
Hope this makes sense - am typing and watching my old hero Columbo, at the same time
Xx
I don't think it would have worked for me, people trying to get me to quit - in the past it made me drink as a 'FU' type of thing.
SR shows that when people get curious and delve into researching how their feeling/acting, they start to see comparisons and take things into their own hands.
Perhaps the best way, is to direct them to SR and let them learn for themselves? I'm not discounting AA in this, it's just the fame it has, is off-putting to a lot of people who are just starting out.
Hope this makes sense - am typing and watching my old hero Columbo, at the same time
Xx
Kaleidoscope eyes
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: London
Posts: 5,243
Originally Posted by Mountainmanbob
interesting point made there Katel
rarely works -- I agree
but
you do mention -- except for a couple of times (maybe that was me) ??
guess only God knows for sure ??
MM
rarely works -- I agree
but
you do mention -- except for a couple of times (maybe that was me) ??
guess only God knows for sure ??
MM
Kaleidoscope eyes
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: London
Posts: 5,243
Originally Posted by Skye2
Kinda makes you realise that we are the lucky ones -we've realised the problem and are doing something about it.
I don't think it would have worked for me, people trying to get me to quit - in the past it made me drink as a 'FU' type of thing.
SR shows that when people get curious and delve into researching how their feeling/acting, they start to see comparisons and take things into their own hands.
Perhaps the best way, is to direct them to SR and let them learn for themselves? I'm not discounting AA in this, it's just the fame it has, is off-putting to a lot of people who are just starting out.
Hope this makes sense - am typing and watching my old hero Columbo, at the same time Xx
I don't think it would have worked for me, people trying to get me to quit - in the past it made me drink as a 'FU' type of thing.
SR shows that when people get curious and delve into researching how their feeling/acting, they start to see comparisons and take things into their own hands.
Perhaps the best way, is to direct them to SR and let them learn for themselves? I'm not discounting AA in this, it's just the fame it has, is off-putting to a lot of people who are just starting out.
Hope this makes sense - am typing and watching my old hero Columbo, at the same time
Xx
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