MrChainsaw

I don't mean to start a debate on religion or spirituality but I am neither. Where does someone find hope when they aren't either? I keep relapsing and its the most discouraging thing ever. I feel like I'm at the end of my rope. I'm sorry if I put this in the wrong place.

Threshold

I borrowed it from people on SR. If they could get sober and live a better life, so could I. I read SO many stories of people who had every sort of bottom imaginable, and had pulled it together and had a life.

That's reality, so it's hard NOT to believe in, and impossible to deny. I can choose to ignore it, but I can also choose to take it at face value and see that there is hope for me too.

wiscsober

As an agnostic I find hope in working with, associating with, other alcoholics who are recovering or who want to recover.

I have discovered love, caring, sharing, understanding, sympathy, empathy, peace. These are all things I think of as spiritual. These are things I consider higher powers.

First things first though. Don't pick up and find help.

DG0409

I'm not religious either, and I have 78 days alcohol free now.

For me, it comes from looking at alcohol as the problem. Alcohol is ADDICTIVE... and it's not just me, I'm not unique for being an alcoholic. There are a bunch of us with problems with alcohol. So, I look at alcohol as the problem. The common thing about us isn't that we are defective, it's that we drink too much. And as long as I don't drink, I don't have the problem in my life. Alcohol is addictive, if I drink, it's going to be a problem.

Lots of people will say you need to believe in an HP or that you are powerless.

I choose to believe that I'm NOT powerless. I can (and DO) CHOOSE not to drink each day and then I follow through on that. It works for me because I choose to believe in it. Just like the HP thing works for others because they choose to believe in it. I also know that if I did drink, it would be a problem. I won't kid myself, if I have one, it will mess up my thoughts and lead to more.

There are a bunch of us here on SR that have quit without any sort of religious method. Try researching AVRT. There are plenty of threads around here about it and it has no HP requirements.

doggonecarl

Have you explored religion or spirituality? Or are you rejecting religion and spirituality outright? I felt like you did when I was in my 20s. Thirty more years of living tempered my view.

But you don't have to be spiritual or religious to know that being clean and sober is a better life than drugs and drink. That's a fact.

But having hope certainly helps with despair.

john44

I agree with a lot of what you say. I think a lot of AA members take the powerless thing a lot farther than the Big Book suggests. The First Step states "We admitted we were powerless over alcohol...". It does NOT say I am powerless over anything and everything. I totally agree with the fact that I am powerless over alcohol. WHEN I put it in my body.

bigsombrero

Hi OP -

Sounds like you see those with religion/spirituality gaining strength, and as a non-believer you are looking for a something to grab on to as well. I'm an atheist/agnostic/anti-theist and in my experience I found hope through knowledge. I pored over research studies, stories from addicts, and looked at many "before and after" scenarios concerning addicts and alcoholics.

And do you know what I found? Most people's lives - 99.999% - are BETTER WITHOUT ALCOHOL. That's a scientific fact. Alcohol is a man-made poison that, if was introduced today, would be considered a class 4 narcotic and would certainly be illegal.

Those who quit using often go through a periods of hopelessness, fear, anger, contempt, and worry - but those are just temporary signs that your system is getting back "into whack". The neurons in your brain need to find new pathways to travel down, the rewards centers feel neglected, etc, etc.

There is no need to cling to Jesus or Mohammed or Allah or Buddah. Just look at the facts. The facts will give you hope, the facts will bring you peace. Science is working, all the time, to help you. Follow the light - the light of learning, the light of knowledge, and it will lead you to a more serene place.

2granddaughters

I was like you when I came to recovery. I tried everything and AA was the only thing that seemed to work for me.

I went to meetings and saw many folks come in hopeless and beaten ... and later they were coming with smiles on their faces and looking forward to the meetings.

I had to take another close look at my beliefs, where they came from and were they a positive attribute in my recovery.....

No debate could change the facts. It was my choice. I choose to change for the better.

All the best.

Bob R

oak

It's a good question!

AVRT and the Rational Recovery website might interest you.

SMART Recovery might have meetings near you. They also have online meetings.

For women, there is Women for Sobriety. they have a great forum online. People need to call their main number to find out if meetings are near them.

LifeRing- if they have meetings near you.

Narcotics Anonymous- NA- is much less religious than AA and is for people with any substance abuse problem- not just narcotics.

SOS- Saving Our Sobriety- has meetings in some locations.

You might also find a group run by a local therapist or center.

Lots of people stay sober by just posting on SR.


I really have not found a group that is a great fit. There are things I like about each program. But I would love to find a group that feels like the right fit for me.

Adillac

For some, knowledge and self-coaching work fine. For others, the experience is different. What is your experience? You owe it to yourself to try all the therapies and books and DVDs. Find what works. Thing about it is, AA's spiritual program is best suited for those who have exhausted other methods and don't know what to do. Don't bang your head against the rock of AA if you don't need to.

GiantNZ

For me as an agnostic my higher power is GOD. The "group of drunks" within AA that provide me "good orderly direction". As my sponsor says don't sweat it, there is an awful lot of wisdom in those rooms.

Take care just find something that works for you.

waynetheking

The secret to beating alcoholism is not about achieving hope. It is about avoiding misery and pain.

freshstart57

It was fear that kept me from committing to sobriety. How would I quiet that roar inside my noggin? How could I make that feeling that I was a piece of crap go away, even if for just another night?

Thing was, as I drank more and more, those feelings and that roar only stopped for a short time, if at all. The night time panics, the anxiety and feeling of dread were becoming constant companions.

The moment came when I decided to face it all sober, whatever 'it all' was, I wasn't even sure anymore. I decided to quit drinking for ever. And some great things happened immediately. I didn't have to do that crap that addicts do any more, ever again. It was done with. This was as if I finally dropped a giant weight I had been carrying, no longer afraid of what might happen.

I want to say again to you, to MrChainsaw, that you can drop this misery too. You deserve to have a life without the depression and anxiety and fear and anger and lies and misery and heartache. You deserve to have your own life with its measure of peace and joy and beauty. Are you ready to decide that you will have these things, come hell or high water? Are you ready to decide that you will never again feel that hungover misery or despair with a full bottle in your hand?

Are you ready to make your plan about continuing to use alcohol?

Bostonsportsfan

I like the way you look at it, it's how I'm feeling with my life.

quitforme79

Welcome chainsaw, you are in the right place. I had very little hope, kept relapsing as well. Then I decided to take action in a recovery plan; I went to AA. Most importantly, I admitted I was powerless over alcohol and that it's the first drink that gets me drunk. Once I have that there's no telling when I will stop or what may happen to me. And it was never good things. Have you tried a meeting?

Zencat

Hi MrChainsaw

As an atheist I get hope and inspiration from a naturalistic spiritual program. Others like myself that come along way from a life lived drunk inspire me, they can inspire, encourage and help you along too.

I was one of those until l I exhausted AA, then I found out "what to do".

fantail

I am also kind of outside religion. Weirdly enough I've found getting sober to be the most profoundly spiritual experience in my life, but it hasn't caused me to believe in a higher power or anything. You could also call it a philosophical experience.

For me, deep at the heart of this process is a reckoning with how to live. It's caused me to think about what I think is meaningful in life, how time should be spent, how pain should be experienced, etc etc. I think for everyone getting sober brings you face to face with a lot of big questions.

And on top of that you get to know that person who you've been aggressively trying to knock unconscious every time she came in the room for the last xyz years (yourself). That's a very strange experience, too!

So yeah... I don't think you need a higher power to get through this. But I think you do need to be willing to look at all of your assumptions about what life is like and be willing to change your mind. That in and of itself is an experience I'd call spiritual.

DG0409

Love this!