aNewEternity

hey, I'm on my 26th day sober on this latest run. I made 30 days in March-April of 2012 and 39 days in June-July of 2012. I feel good, physically and mentally, though it is a bumpy road and my Addictive Voice has made a comeback in the past two weeks after being strangly dormant the first two weeks.

I'm well versed in a lot of the recovery literature. during my March-April run up in Ithaca, I went to a bunch of AA meetings, made some friends there, went out to the diner afterwards, and so on. it was a positive experience. then come June of 2012 I came across orange-papers, that storehouse of anti-AA invective, which turned me off to 12-Step recovery by taking my prior suspicions of the Program and redoubling it over with an unnecessary layer of orange's own hate. around that time I picked up Trimpey's book and practiced Addictive Voice recognition with success, for a while, until July 9th, which kicked off what would be a fresh six months of alcohol abuse.

long story short, since my story isn't supposed to be my main story here, I hit a fresh 'bottom' in January and have been going to meetings, both AA and SMART, regularly which more-or-less attempting to practice Trimpey's addictive voice recognition in the rest of my affairs. but there is a nagging sense of queasiness I have, which is nonsensical, counterproductive, all of that, but it's still me..

I like doctrines. SMART meetings are certainly less doctrinal than AA meetings, but it is still there if one looks for it. the Four Points of recovery, personal stories, Cost Benefit Analyses in place of 'working the steps'. I hesitate to call Trimpeyism/AVRT a doctrine, but it is clearly fashioned as an explicit counterpoint to 12-Stepism and thus is a far-left (if you will) polemic within the continuum of recovery politics.


I'm making a problem here where there isn't a problem. it's an unfortunate consequence of my own black-or-white thinking tendency, as in people who have Borderline Personality Disorder (I don't, by all accounts), to want a savior while the questioning, critical mind that has been endemic to my existence prevents me from 'surrendering' to much of anything, despite the thirst I have in my soul to do so.

so the question: is there an interest in developing a new Recovery Theology, probably within AA for purposes of expediency, a 'Fourth Point', a left pole within the program, that attempts to bring AA out of its cocoon and have it openly take-on the rather devastating criticism levied on it by Trimpey, SMART, Stanton Peele, and shock-troops like orange-papers?

bigsombrero

Good question. I don't know, AA is pretty much like Fort Knox when it comes to breaking in new ideas. Not much give-and-take with them, you're either in or you're out. They didn't have success by evolving their program to fit, they turn you around to fit the program...

Okay that's a bit of an obnoxious way to say it, but generally AA looks inflexible. Why would they worry about orange papers and Stanton Peele? If you're not involved personally in recovery, you've never likely heard about either one of them and have no reason to care. But every Tom Dick and Harry in world DOES know what "AA" is, and aside from Penn & Teller no major media expose has ever been done on a serious level. I'm sure there are YouTube videos and such but nothing that comes across as major respectable news outlets criticizing AA...

So in short, no, I haven't seen any such interests or efforts undertaken. Are you asking because you're going to try yourself, or just for curiousity's sake?

jazzfish

I would suggest you read the book Sober for Good which starts from the perspective of what successfully sober did to get that way. You can avoid all the noise and just get to the basics. It is neither pro nor anti-AA, just presenting the wide array of things that work and there are some common elements that run across all methods.

Orange's take on statistics is wrong in more way that I care to go into. I would ignore him, but if you need an alternative takes you can read the Green Papers. Personally, I think it is all a distraction from the real issue.

AA as an organization is pretty static, but I have found the groups and individuals to be as varied as anyone could hope for.

soberlicious

So you came across the orange papers and that caused you to relapse?

Looking at the politics of recovery can be fascinating...that is if it doesn't actually compromise your abstinence.

freshstart57

Any movement in this regard will necessarily occur outside of AA because forces of change from within are dismissed as heretical. Check Emo Philips' bit about the Great Lakes Baptist.

For me, I balk at the conflation of recovery and theology.

ReadyAndAble

I like to keep things simple, recovery included. I just wanted to change me, not the world.

awuh1

If any of the criticism was “rather devastating” there might be a need. There’s not.

instant

I found over my struggle it is easy to get distracted and rationalise intellectualise and engaging In avoidance and displacement activity- anything but do what I need to do.

thankfully I found a way that is working. I do not go to AA but I have read and I also thought about the steps, AVRT, SMART etc there are a lot of useful perspectives. The personal challenge we face is getting and staying sober, that's all the work I need.

I think taking sides on these issues would be unhealthy for me.

LexieCat

I think a lot of people get hung up on the idea of "doctrine". What matters is whether a particular program works. The reason AA is "inflexible" is that AA believes its program works. They take no official position (though individual members might--as is their prerogative) about whether other programs work. If another one does--go for it. We all want people to get well more than we care how they did it.

It's like going to any expert to teach you something. Let's say you hire a golf instructor or someone to teach you to play the piano. You might start, have some difficulty with some of the exercises or techniques you are taught. You might start researching other methods of instruction and find some that make more sense--to YOU. So you take them to your teacher and say, "Hey, let's teach me this way, instead. I think this would work better."

Your expert teacher is likely to say, "Fine, if you think those work better, I suggest you find someone to teach you that way, then. This is how *I* teach, and I've had much success with it. If you want to learn from me, this is how I do it. I can't teach you some other way because I know this works, whereas I can't speak for those other methods. Up to you. I'll teach you the best I can, my way, but I'm not changing my teaching method."

Now is that being "doctrinal"? I don't think so--it is a matter of teaching what one knows, and feeling a responsibility to do it in a way that the teacher thinks is best.

FeelingGreat

But doesn't AA pin alcoholism on personal failure, rather than a disease similar to say heart disease? The sufferer contributes to the disease by their behaviour but we don't make them do a searching personal inventory, we just treat it. My point being, as science tells us more about the disease model (I prefer the genetic model) does the AA emphasis on forgiveness, contrition, self improvement become beside the point?
Just asking; i'm not involved in any system, so I don't take a position on it.

Received

If I allowed my Beast to take over it likely would have written your entire post.

Johno1967

What I have learned about recovery so far is don't complicate things. Keep is simple (KISS, if you like acronyms). The only thing stupid in KISS is the incredibly complex rationalization and twisted logic that leads to the insanity of the first drink. Try not to think so much. It'll lead to a inner argument and will bring on doubt and despair.
I recently watched Life of Pi and could relate to Pi in his search for religion, where he explores Hinduism, Christianity and Islam in order to understand God. In the end he finds God stranded on a life boat in the middle of the Pacific with a Bengal Tiger. I'm yet to read the book but I can draw some parallels with my own life. 25 years of fighting, complicating, drinking and searching and the answer was staring me in the face. I just did not see it till I hit rock bottom. How you work it, make it, do it, get there or don't is entirely between you and wherever you draw your strength from. Follow you heart. Don't buy into hatred, resentment or cynicism though. These will lead you straight to alcohol. I read a lot of vitriol about AA on the web, then you can read a lot of vitriol about anything. The 12 steps is keeping me sober and that's something I could never do before.

Grymt

Don't know much about being smart
Don't know much biology
Don't know much about the big book
Don't know much about the drugs I took

But I do know that I love Me
And I know that if You love You too
What a wonderful world this would be

Don't know much about beasts in me
Don't know much eugenicists
Don't know much about HP
Don't know what an AV's for.

But I do know that booze and me's a fool,
And if this knowing could stay with me,
What a wonderful world this would be.

Now I don't claim to be an "A" student,
But I'm trying to be.
For maybe by being an "A" student maybe
I can win my love for me.

Don't know much about avrt
Don't know much biology
Don't know much about the big book
Don't know much about the drugs I took.

But I do know that if I love Me,
And I know that if You love You too,
What a wonderful world this would be.

Latatatatatatahuwaah (avrt)
Oehwoewoe (biology)
Latatatatatatahuwaah (the big book)
Oehwoewoe (drugs I took)

But I do know that if I love Me,
And I know that if You love You too,
What a wonderful world this would be.

(sorry Sam)

Well. why not, eh? I'm a pisshead and that matters. Being sober matters. If it works I do it and I don't give a rats ass who wrote it, promoted it, thought of it, ...

Having said that. Interesting topic.

sugarbear1

One can work the 12 steps of recovery and doesn't require much more than knowing those steps work. It takes an open mind to do this.

Whatever works for you, do it well!

Johno1967

No that's incorrect. AA argues that alcoholism is a disease which can be arrested but never cured. Much of the Big Book argues this and draws on support from the medical profession to support its case while insisting that alcoholics should seek medical help before starting the steps.
Recovery in AA is based on the precept that a daily reprieve is granted based on one's spiritual conditioning. Its not religious and does not foster self blame. I used to hate myself, now through the steps I actually realize I had a disease and my bad behavior and psychosis was a manifestation of that illness. Through forgiveness, compassion, honesty, humility and tolerance we can start to be less selfish and draw the strength to help ourselves as well as others. I'm learning the 12 steps has so many parallels with Buddhism and is all about a personal way of life than dogma or doctrine. The Big Book says several times, the contents are a suggestion only, a recommended guide to recovery, not a rule book. Take what you need, pay it forward and live and let live. Simple as that. I've only been to a couple of meetings but read the literature daily. Its sinking in.

paul99

Those are good observations and in-depth questions.

But all the self-knowledge and investigation into doctrine, method, critical thought and comparison won't keep you sober. Trying to reinvent the wheel while cars zoom past you on the highway of recovery is just another way of stalling what could be a wonderful sober life. Rationalizing and over intellectualizing things just makes you a well read and well thought out drunk.

Simplify things. It's hard for us alcoholics to do that, but it works.