Sapling

My questions are these.....How many of you that are using the AA program have come into AA...Took the twevle steps, went to meetings...Practiced steps 10-12 daily and relapsed...And if you did...How long were you sober and why did you relapse?
The reason I ask...Is because I see so many people that say they have been in and out of AA for years....Relapse after relapse. And I think the main reason this is...Is they simply don't work the steps. They don't take the action that this simple program requires to work. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

PaperDolls

I went to my first AA meeting at age 16.
Then sporatically through out the years.
Never got a sponsor. Never worked a step.
Until this time.
I've been sober now for just over 3 years.
I think I had to get desperate enough to do a bunch of stuff I didn't want to do.
I had run out of options.

Sapling

Nobody likes to get honest with themselves...Congrats on 3 years.

dawnrunner

I went to AA via OP rehab: enjoyed the meetings, found them helpful, worked on steps 1-3 with my group, but then after rehab ended, got into attending a meeting that was dominated by a bunch of jock hockey dads who never listened when the women spoke. I used that meeting as an excuse to stop going to any meetings, and in one year was flaming relapsed.

PaperDolls

By the way, this time I did work all the steps and continue to TRY to apply ALL of the principals in my daily life. I also work with others ..... which for me is huge because it keeps me in the steps, you know, in case I forget.

NYCDoglvr

Whenever someone in AA relapses and comes back, universally they say it's because they stopped going to meetings. I think the reason for this is denial, which is always perched on our shoulder. We "forget" we're alcoholics. Of course not literally, but once denial starts working its way back it's easy to think that maybe I can drink now. Or, I'll have just one. I need reminders that I'm an alcoholic and this is a killer disease.

What I find unnerving is the number of people coming back after having 20+ years..... But again, it's because they stopped.
I don't want to imply, however, that everyone who stops going to AA meetings relapses.

awuh1

This is an interesting question. I sometimes hear people in meetings say that they had worked the 12 steps and still drank. The standard line they get from others is that they did not work the steps “thoroughly” enough. My question was always … who’s to judge? In other words what’s the yard stick here? At some point this becomes a tautology. A tautology is a series of self-reinforcing statements that cannot be disproved because the statements depend on the assumption that they are already correct. I.E. “You drank, that means you did not do a good enough job working the steps” and “If you do not work the steps, you’ll drink”. It’s not provable!

I think sometimes people drink because they get depressed, clinically depressed, and they think it’s the only way to feel better (they are of course wrong). Some feel that their anxiety is overwhelming them and a drink is the only way to calm down (they are also incorrect). Will the steps help anxiety and depression? Yes, they most certainly will. Are they always enough to solve all severe problems related to anxiety and depression? NO.

Bill Wilson suffered from severe depression, for decades, AFTER he helped found AA. He was also sober for years before he even wrote the steps.

For most alcoholics an honest working of the steps is all that is needed. For others it’s not enough. I think that’s why Bill tried to find other solutions for alcoholism beyond the “spiritual angle”, which is sometimes beyond what some people can grasp in the beginning.

It’s well to note what the BB says about cures for alcoholism “Our book is meant to be suggestive only. We realize we know only a little”. Page 164

PaperDolls

I think working the steps honestly AND thoroughly is key.....especially the honstly part.

I once worked with a sponsee who was knowingly and openly not putting stuff on her 4th step because she didn't want to deal with it .... partly because she was under the impression that if she had a resentment agains them she must owe them an amend. *sigh* I tried telling her that wasn't necessirily the case AND that she was on step 4 NOT step 9.

She also wasn't honest about times she drank while I was sponsoring her ..... well. she got honest way after the drinking but didn't tell me when it happened when we were supposed to be working steps 1-3.

I finally told her she was half-assing it and she knew it and when she wanted to get honest and serious about working the steps to call me. I'm fairly certian she's back out drinking.

WakeUp

When we work the 12 Steps, it's not a one and done deal. We have to maintain our spiritual condition. If we don't, the spiritual malady comes back. We become so miserable we want to climb out of our skin. That's what leads back to drinking.

RobbyRobot

Oh yeah? I always thought denial was a river in Egypt?! hahaha!!


Here is the thing for me, if an alcoholic gets sober in AA by doing and living the steps, then the only way they can get drunk again is because they stopped living and doing the steps.

Meetings not so much.

Denial is not always perched on my shoulder. It got itself arrested along with my alcoholism, and is bye bye now, swimming with the fishes.

Not one sober day has ever gone by where i forgot where I have come from. Zero days. The only thing since I got sober all those years ago that has ever made me want to drink again is when my sobriety truly sucked. A lousy sobriety is enough to drive me to drinking!

It has happened, being that lousy but not so much now, lol... but its always possible I could have such a bad day that I think and feel my sobriety is in the toilet. Of course, just "doing the program" again, no matter how tough it may be to do so, puts an end to that nonsense right quick, same day. No need to ever relapse. If the very next day sucks again just accept what is what and "do the program" and eventually sober happiness wins the day!! I've not relapsed in over thirty years.

Could anything else make me want to get drunk? Nope. If my sobriety is in good form spiritually and happily livable why would I ever get drunk? All the possible reasons would look like dumbass excuses to me. Why would sobriety not work? If it isn't working, thats all on my alcoholism, and not on whatever else.

So yeah, not having a good sobriety? Well, that will make me wanna get drunk everytime I turn around, lol.

So for me, its not just working the steps -- I gotta get some real benefits out of working those steps or sooner or later I will be drunk plain and simple.

I see lots of people, who relapse, working those steps uselesssly. What I dont see is lots of people, who relapse, is their actually experiencing living a happy sober spiritual free life, you know?

Sapling

Isn't that what daily practice of steps 10-12 is all about? If you stop practicing those steps daily, especially 11...I think your spiritual condition is in serious trouble.

Sapling

And Robbie....That was an awesome post.

Sapling

That's it?? There has to be one person out there that worked this program right and relapsed.....If not I'm feeling better about it already.

eJoshua

Can't help myself from playing devil's advocate sometimes, but I just have to point out that although a lot of people come and go to meetings, work the steps and end up relapsing, there are probably a lot more people that work the program, attend meetings, eventually stop going but never relapse. You just never hear about those people because they stop coming to meetings.

Sapling

These are the one's I'm looking for...If there are a lot of them...Where are they? I haven't heard from one yet...

Dee74

Just guessing, but sometimes, rightly or not, people may feel a little intimidated to share their 'failures'...

D

Sapling

I've had people come back from long term sobriety in meetings....And they always say that they stopped working some part of the program...Stopped their spritual practice...Stopped helping suffering alcoholics...Stopped going to meetings...And they know where they failed and get back into it...They never say things were better when they went back out.
I guess the point is....If you just practice this simple program...One day at a time....The only way you can fail...Is if you decide you want to. That make sense?

laurie6781

Ok Sapling. I have 30 1/2 years of continuous sobriety as of 12/7/11.

I died to get to AA. The ER doc was writing my TOD on my chart after my last heart stoppage and my heart being down 28 minutes when it started on it's own.

My first several years I went to at least one meeting a day, weekends 2 or 3 a day, worked with my sponsor and others in AA constantly. Then I slowly cut back on meetings as my life became more balanced. Moved away from the SF Valley but kept in touch with sponsor and grand sponsor.

Meetings may have 'helped' me not drink in those early years, however, I had to learn how to apply those 12 steps in MY DAILY LIVING.

It is more than just working Steps 10, 11, and 12 daily, it is an ongoing process of working on me to be the best person I can be today.

Progress not perfection. There is no finish line.

I stopped analyzing a long time ago. I just keep doing what works for me. In a nutshell:

Each day, to the best of my ability for that day, I practice thoughtfulness, kindness and consideration to ALL who cross my path and treat all who cross my path as I would like to be treated.

Now I will admit some days are better than others, but as long as I go to bed at night knowing in my heart that I was the best I could be that day it was a good day.

I still to this day, keep a card in my wallet with that on typed on it, that I can pull out and REMIND myself, when I am going off 'half cocked' or 'developing' a resentment, or or or

NO I am far from perfect but that little sentence has saved me lots and lots and lots of grief over the years.

I never liked it when someone came back to AA and those 'Old Timers' (I wasn't one by a long shot yet, rofl) would ask them "What step weren't you working?" Usually in a sarcastic tone.

My sponsor did not do that with her sponsees.

I do ask a question:

"What are you going to do different this time?" Gently and firmly and let the individual figure it out.

J M H O But 'relapse, slip, etc' is NOT part of recovery. It is part of the disease, affliction, or whatever you want to call it. It is King Alcohol, King Coke, King Meth, King whatever, that still has a hold on the individual's mind.

Hope the above helps you find some answers Sapling.


ps: maybe it's time to just concentrate on your own recovery and look for those in the meetings that ARE walking and living their lives the way they are talking. I found them, you can too. I found them by going for coffee, watching and listening and seeing how these 'folks' acted outside of meetings. It was quite the eye opener.

Love and hugs,

Terminally Unique

Of those people that did so, did they go back to drinking because they stopped working the program, or did they stop working the program because they went back to drinking?

Sapling

I find these to be one and the same. And I do work on my recovery...But I like to learn as much about it as I can. Thanks.