Cathy31

Check out an MA meeting...you'll soon realise that it's not benign and it's not just the people I know who have struggled.

Cathy31
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theaocp

We're not going to change each others' minds regarding personal thoughts on cannabis, so let's stick to the OP. I find it the very definition of hypocrisy to legally regulate the production, sale, and consumption of alcohol and tobacco, but completely prohibit the same for cannabis, let alone other scheduled substances. Therefore, i advocate prohibitionists step up and call for the outright banning of alcohol and tobacco. These substances kill hundreds of thousands of just Americans every year. Where's the equity?

Eroica

Well of course most of us agree that prohibition doesn't work. The more relevant question is.. how old does one need to be to buy alcohol? If we lowered the drinking age to 18 it might affect the number of drunk driving related deaths.

Also, when does a drug became bad enought to criminalize? Should crack be legal??? In my opinion, we need to deglamourize drugs.. not put people in jail for deciding to do them.

suki44883

Should the US criminalize everything that can be harmful to people? What a slippery slope to step out onto. Talk about a nanny country! No thanks.

jimhere

As a recovered alcoholic I'm not against alcohol. In fact I think alcohol is a great thing.

This isn't about hiding out from booze. The problem isn't booze and either the problem has been removed or it has not.

sfgirl

vs.

I think the difference between these two posts shows how social conditioning can affect your opinion. I don't understand why the problem is the "-ism not the alcohol" and conversely "a drug is a drug is a drug." I view any addictive substance as a similar beast. I don't see why alcohol is any different than a drug. The only difference between the a drug and alcohol is how society legally controls them and socially accepts them. Marijuana, I view as particularly benign, certainly more benign than alcohol, and I know people that struggle with pot addiction. I don't think this has changed my opinion but I must admit I probably live in the one city in the country where we have gone through major social and legal shifts in the last 10 years regarding pot. It is completely decriminalized. If I had a medical marijuana card I could buy it in a store within a couple blocks of my house.

It has been interesting to read where this thread has gone. I expected a little more fervor. I really wonder why you believe alcohol is not a factor in your alcoholism. It is sort of shocking to me. It seems like such a logical statement. I understand no prohibition, obviously. I am also very much against jail, etc, for drug offenders. But really no changes to our system regarding alcohol? There must be some positive things we can do.

Maybe I am just trying to stir the pot a bit but only to produce a healthy discussion. I care deeply about this. I believe many different factors contributed to my problem— bio, psycho, social. Here we have the chance to maybe touch on the social.

Cathy31

Erm, with all due respect, Sf, your statement would only be valid were *your* paradigm correct and mine were not? You might want to add in the difference in these two posts shows, for me, how...otherwise it just implies you are right and I am just a victim of (erroneous) social conditioning (which I don't think I am LOL! )

My last word on this would be to paraphrase Jim :

This isn't about hiding out from booze or ANY other problematic substance/issue (sex/food/heroin, shopping, etc)

The problem isn't booze or ANY other problematic substance/issue (sex/food/heroin, shopping, etc) and either the problem has been removed or it has not.

My problem has been removed - not all my character defects LOL but definitely my problem with alcohol. And that solution is there for anyone to take, for free, whatever your walk of life. For the life of me I can't see removing the substance/issue as being effective in the long term - if of course your long term is a happy, useful, clean and sober life.

Anyway! Just my 2 cents! These are only my opinions having lived in the solution for some years now and they have been the best of my life!

Cathy31
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Katie09

I had to really think about this. For selfish reasons, yes, I would support it. But that would be selfish. Nonetheless, if someone put me in charge today, I'd say say alcohol is illegal for one year (just so I wouldn't drink for one year).

However, that is not possible and the truth is it's not the alcohol's fault that I have the problem. More people drink who don't have a problem so it's really my problem I need to manage. I will say, however, the fact that many drugs are illegal has sure kept me away from pursuing those drugs.

Zencat

As for alcohol prohibition: No. As for reading through this tread, it looks like and I believe the general consensuses among the professional community as it is here at SR, there is no known common cause of alcoholism. I for one consider the biopsychosocial model is the most up to date cause for alcoholism.

I believe there could be more effort put in prevention of alcoholism. The NCADD has a nice article on this: NCADD-SFV's Perspective.

sunrise1

My thoughts? Prohibition obviously didn't work. For me though, it goes deeper than that. It's not anyone else's problem that I can't handle the juice; why restrict the freedom of millions who just like a glass of wine with dinner because I'm unable to? That, in general, is one of my big pet peeves. One person screws up and the right is taken away from everyone.

Katie09

Thanks, I read that article and I find it interesting but it was stated that these points have not proven valid:

• "Alcoholics drink to escape or because they can not cope well."
• "We should provide assertiveness training, values clarification, communications and "refusal skills" training to everyone in our society, but especially youth. These techniques, broadly applied, will prevent not only alcohol problems, but also drug addiction and many mental health problems."

The whole thrust of my treatment program is about developing coping skills other than turning to a drink, so I really do believe the first point is true. We also discuss setting boundaries in order to take care of ourselves and not pick up that first drink, so I guess I agree with the second point as well.

Anyway, I digress, but wanted to share that I think the above points are true.

McGowdog

I have an opinion;

Leave the normal, social, moderate drinkers alone.

Leave the teetotalers alone.

Leave the real alcoholics alone and let them find A.A. or some other recovery.

Now... what about the hard drinker? That's the tough one. Studies and programs and other things could be done to perhaps help this realm of alcoholism. They would seem most receptive to and in need of some help besides A.A.

Another opinion; 10% of the US population suffers or potentially suffers alcoholism and may one day become real alcoholics, as the Alcoholics Anonymous book describes.

There's another 10% of drinkers out there who are merely hard drinkers and are suffering pretty badly as well and would do well to find alternative approaches to recovery besides A.A.

Those are my two opinions and feel free to take them or leave them.

Thank you.

bugsworth

Wow...this thread took some interesting turns...seems were back to "hard drinkers" and "real alcoholics" again...will it ever end?

I agree with Zen that there should be more effort made to prevent alcoholism. The disclaimer on alcohol ads to "drink responsibly" isn't enough.

Katie09

Perhaps some delineation should be made? I don't know. Whatever a person calls it, if someone has consequences of drinking (be they hard drinkers or alcoholics), it's probably best to leave it behind. The one thing I am confident in saying is that BOTH hard drinkers and real alcoholics might benefit from alternative approaches. Hopefully, someday they will abound.

sfgirl

Cathy—

When I reread my thread I realized that that sentence seemed directed at you. I meant to use you in the impersonal plural, meaning sort of everyone who implied that alcohol was not a factor in their alcoholism and not you at all. I also apologize if what I said about your posts came off as condescending. I realized while I wrote it that it probably was and posted anyways because sometimes it is too easy to dehumanize the people behind the keyboard. For what it is worth, I didn't mean to single you out as "socially conditioned" like it is a bad or unique thing because it is neither. I think it is just a fact of reality of living in a social society from which no one is immune. I also easily may have misunderstood what you said. I am sorry.

I also want to point out that for me my opinion has nothing to do with how strong my own recovery is or is not. That is neither here nor there. Again, it is more an issue of prevention. This is not about me as a recovering person because in a lot of ways I think that that is where the system is the most ample— for treating acute alcoholism. This is more about me as a 14 year old embarking on my drinking career. If I could prevent other little girls from dealing with their issues like I did, by hitting the bottle, I would do anything I could. I hopefully would spare them suffering.

sfgirl

Alright I have to be the most annoying person on this thread since I won't shut up. But I just stumbled on this. I only read the first few pages so far but it is fascinating. The Surgeon General put it out a couple years ago about underage drinking. The link will download a PDF file (1mb):

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/topics...lltoaction.pdf

Or here is it sort of summarized (poorly) and links:
NIAAA Publications

tyler

[QUOTE=Cathy31;2265130] First of all, I think this is a very interesting thread, I hope it can be kept civil enough to remain open.

As someone whose life has been destroyed primarily by marijuana (not really correct I did the destroying, the drug just helped me!) I feel I can speak on this subject. Marijuana today is much stronger than it was 20-30 years ago, that is a fact. Because of this it is also probably more addictive than it has been in the past. However, I know far more people who can enjoy an occasional joint or a couple of hits in the evening than those who completely destroy their lives with it like I did. In this respect it is similar to alcohol. Most folks can have a few beers, even tie one on on occasion, but not have it control their lives.

I personally feel it would be better off legal, so you wouldn't have to deal with criminal elements who often introduce you to other "harder" drugs. It could also be taxed and hopefully some of the funds put into treatment for those who become addicted. It could be regulated so it would be harder for younger people to get ahold of it. Now it's easier for a high school kid to get pot than a beer, and let's not fool ourselves, legal or not they can get either. Finally we would not be making criminals out of casual smokers, or even addicts for that matter. You can be a complete liver crushing drunk and as long as you don't drive or make a total a$$ out of yourself in public, you are not going to jail. If you get caught with pot, not only can you face jail time, but if you are in your car, even if you are not high at the time, you can have your car taken.

Let me be clear. I can not smoke pot. One hit and I may as well just say screw it and buy an ounce. I don't encourage anyone else to smoke either, nor would I encourage anyone to drink for that matter. I feel it should be a matter of personal choice. Of course the line has to be drawn somewhere, I just feel currently it is drawn in the wrong place. That said, I will not derail this thread any further!!

suki44883

Very well put, Tyler.

McGowdog

No, I don't think it will ever end.

What is interesting though, is how hard drinkers see it one way and the "real" "recovered" "alcoholics" see it another way.

That maybe for hard drinkers, but for alcoholics, there need not be alternative approaches, really. Alcoholics Anonymous works fantastic, for alcoholics.

Katie09

I am glad it works for so many. I really am. But I also know alcoholics who only use SMART or LifeRing, for example, and AA did not work for them. I do believe that this condition is not a one size fits all approach, but I am happy it is working fantastic for you. I've decided to call my psychiatrist tomorrow for Naltrexone. There is a guy in my group who was implanted with it and he doesn't even want to use anymore. For me that IS the easier softer way and I will pursue it. I'm at the point where I will try it, even though I do not want another drug, but 32 years of AA has not yielded positive results for this drinker. And this is just me.