queenteree

Although I belong to the Friends and Family forum, I always read this forum too since my husband is an alcoholic. Gives me a different spin on things, and Alanon encourages us to go to open AA meetings, so I go here. Anyway, in reading alot of the posts, you all seem to relate that while you were active, you realized you couldn't control your drinking no matter how hard you tried. Over and over again, you'd fail. Why, then, do active alcoholics say they could control it, try to control it, detox for a week or two then go back, for years and years sometimes? I smoke cigarettes, and I know that I will quit when I'm ready and if and when I do quit, I hope I'll understand I can't go back and have just one. Just curious. Thanks.

nandm

Probably the simplest answer is that alcoholism is a progressive disease. An allergy is also progressive. The more one is exposed to the allergen the stronger the allergic reaction becomes until ultimately it winds up in anaphylaxis where they easily can die. Repeated exposure to alcohol to someone who is susceptible to alcoholism justs sets them up for the reaction to become the inability to control their drinking because the body and mind become dependant upon it.

Cigarettes are similiar but still not the same. I did quit drinking and smoking at the same time. Although I was smoking 3 packs a day, it was harder for me to quit drinking than quit smoking. My cigarette use was centered around my alcohol use.

There was a time though when the physical craving for alcohol was not nearly as strong as it was at the end of my drinking and I believe it would have been possible for me to put it down then but I still believe that if I had not completely quit I would still wind up in the same place I am today. As an alcoholic my drinking is progressive it only gets worse as time goes on, never better.

I don't know if this makes any sense as I have probably rambled but hope it helps anyway.

ANGELINA243

Because alcoholism is a disease. There is a difference between a heavy drinker and an alcoholic>although sometimes by looking on from the outside--the two may appear quite similar. As an alcoholic, I have "lost" the power of choice to not pick up the first drink. Alcoholism is a disease that often tries to convince the alcoholic that he does not "have the disease". That is why he will try the same old routine again--maybe sooner/sometimes years later>It will be different this time, or so he is presently convinced>only to get the same result--and once again feels hopelessly defeated.

Astro

I'll be curious to see how it goes when you decide to quit smoking QT. I tried to quit chewing tobacco for 27 years, and had the same results as I did with trying to stop drinking. I thought I was ready and I'd quit for a few weeks, then I'd buy another can and I was off to the races again. To me an addiction is an addiction, the mental obsession led me to believe I could control it or quit when I wanted to. But I didn't want to, I was having too much fun and couldn't see a reason to stop unless it was just for a few days to appease my ex.

Just speaking for myself, when I was active I thought I could control my drinking, but when I finally achieved sobriety I realized I was never in control, I was completely powerless over alcohol. I know now that I can never safely take another drink again.

Thanks for posting here, I really appreciate the food for thought!

Astro

Teri, I hope I don't come across as defensive, I truly appreciate your posts and respect your curiousity about alcoholic behavior, but there's something you wrote here that peaked my curiousity.

You said you'll quit when you're ready. So if you're doing something that's unhealthy and addictive, why haven't you quit already? The reason I ask is that I continued drinking and chewing tobacco because there wasn't a consequence that was drastic enough to make me want to stop YET. For a tobacco user that consequence might be cancer, for an alcoholic it might be liver disease. In my case it was divorce and losing my home and children.

Again, my intention isn't to pick on you or attack you, I'm just curious as to what your thoughts are.

Scott

Thentram

Hi queentree,

I actually just posted on a very similar topic in the "What is Recovery?" forum. I'm greatful for this subject because it really makes me think about my own behaviour and motivations.

In my mind the concept of controlled drinking is similar to the concept of sobriety. In each case you aren't working not to obtain a goal and move on from there, but toward an ongoing lifestyle. For someone who has a problem with drinking I actually think sobriety is easier to obtain than control.

Obtaining sobriety isn't simply not drinking. I look at it as practice. By practicing I am teaching myself to live a better life in the absense of alcohol. Failing in my goal to obtain sobriety doesn't happen with my next drink but with the decision to stop practicing.

When I think about controlling alcohol consumption I have a much harder time understanding what it would be that I was working toward. It can't simply be about not letting my drinking get out of control, because then I would fail the next time it did. So what is it that I'm practicing? When I envision getting better at sobriety I am constantly working toward a lifestyle without alcohol. When I envision getting better at controlled drinking which direction am I moving? Am I getting better at not drinking or am I getting better at drinking as much as I can without losing control? One sounds like practicing sobriety and the other sounds like I'm deliberatly putting myself in a dangerous situation.

So in the end its hard for me to not see controlled drinking as setting oneself up for failure. Its either all or nothing and you fail with your next loss of control, or you are constantly pushing the line of control. At very best you put considerable effort into controlling and you still wind up constantly being on the verge of alcoholism.

So finally to answer your question: If what I described above is true for others (I believe it is true for me) then the reason an alcoholic tries to control is that they don't have a clear vision of what life with controlled drinking would look like. They view it as a milestone to obtain rather than something that needs practice. Once viewed as something that needs practice I think you realize that "controlled drinking" doesn't exist, and is just a euphamism for drinking. At that point its simply the choice between drinking and sobriety.

I apologize for the novel. I have been thinking a lot about the subject in the past few weeks and its been helpful in my practice.

Astro

OK, I'm about to step down off my soapbox but want to throw in one more thing, then I'll shut up and go back to my hole;-) If you have a Big Book Teri I highly recommend reading The Doctors Opinion. These words explain my fascination with drinking in a nutshell:

Men and women drink essentially because they like the effect produced by alcohol. The sensation is so elusive that, while they admit it is injurious, they cannot after a time differentiate the true from the false. To them, their alcoholic life seems the only normal one. They are restless, irritable and discontented, unless they can again experience the sense of ease and comfort which comes at once by taking a few drinks-drinks which they see others taking with impunity. After they have succumbed to the desire again, as so many do, and the phenomenon of craving develops, they pass through the well-known stages of a spree, emerging remorseful, with a firm resolution not to drink again. This is repeated over and over, and unless this person can experience an entire psychic change there is very little hope of his recovery.

queenteree

Thanks you all for your insightful replies. I guess I just try to understand the nature of the disease. I see my husband killing himself with it (he has liver disease) and I honestly believes when he stops for a week or two, he really has (at that time) no intention of going back (but he does). I've seen him cry and look like a failed man (when he doesn't think I'm looking), and it just seems so hard, yet so easy at the same time (he just CAN'T DRINK!). Astro, as for my smoking, I didn't take it defensively, I'm glad you asked. I actually only realized recently that I'm addicted to cigarettes (there used to be days when I wouldn't even smoke). You see, I count my cigarettes and try not to let myself go over a pack a day (I can control it - yeah right). Just recently, when under such stress, I noticed I only had a few cigarettes left in the pack (I did have more packs). What did I do? Go figure - my daughter's pack of cigarettes was left in my car (different brand). I smoked some of hers and actually told myself that it didn't count for the day, only my pack counted!!!! (so I never went over my quota of a pack a day). If that's not addiction, I don't know what is. But at least I realized that I've lost control and I gotta quit. I guess it's hard right now with all that's going on w/my husband, and I've been trying to apply the 12 steps to smoking. My goal is January 2nd. Hope I can do it.

Astro

I can't tell you how many times I stopped for a week or two, then picked up feeling more bulletproof than I ever did. There were a few times when I went to a doctor about back pains and he'd tell me to stop drinking. So I'd stop until the pain went away, then I figured I was cured.

As for the nicotine, it was really no different for me than the drinking, my behavior was just as insane. I was lying to my ex and hiding it from her too. I had cans of chew hidden in her mini-van and all over the house, I kept toothbrushes in my desk and truck to clean up after myself, I was always stuffing mints in my mouth to conceal the smell, and there were even times when I ran in the opposite direction from her when I'd been "caught"! I can't believe how stupid and ridiculous my actions were, but at the time they seemed perfectly normal!

I know a few people from my AA group who've applied the 12 Steps successfully to quit smoking, and wish you nothing but the best. Honestly, being free from all of my addictions is the greatest gift I've had in life. I hope you get that too.

User_Name

I tried to control it but that was a lot of work, so I always just took the path of least resistance and drank without boundaries. A little while back I had a bout of sobriety, and thought I had my problem figured out so I started drinking just in lesser quantities. This quickly ended up with me drinking the same amount as before and feeling just as crappy. My mind is kinda messed up when it comes to alcoholism, I think I'm better and my mind tricks me into drinking again. It's really not like anything I've ever experienced before.

mae164

LOVE THAT THE DR. OPINION WAS ALREADY QUOTED
The big book explains everything very clearly, p. 23-24- THE MAIN PROBLEM CENTERS IN OUR MIND RATHER THAT OUR BODY- THE MENTAL OBSSESION ( 2nd half of step one) so if you can stop smoking and never pick it back up, when you think of smoking you can recall all it took to quit, how terrible you felt , how much money you wasted, how you smelled,etc.. and not smoke than you were not addicted to smoking rather you had a hard habit.

Like what was already said- " cant tell that truth from the false", as an alcoholic (without a solution) my truth is that i have one and i am off to the races my false is that this time i can drink like other people, or i just need a couple and i will fell better,etc..- cause the weight of any consequence after a short period of time losses the force to keep from drinking again when i go to think about it- literally i could not feel the humiliation of what happened the day before enough that when i thought of drinking i had the response that any normal person would have NO WAY, instead i would sit there thinking i know i should not drink and try to relive the night before and how determined i was to be done - COULD NOT FEEL IT- i can feel how good that first one makes me feel- down to the cringe going down my back -so well i can have just one(my false) my truth I end up wasted all over again..... so and so on and so on

Rimmy

I really needed this post right now. Especially the understanding of it being a progressive disease. I'm finally feeling physically better, and my first thoughts (at the first signs of mild stress mixed with boredom) this evening were that if I just have a few beers, I'll be so much more relaxed and I'll deal with these minor issues better.

And to be honest, tonight, I could have 2 or 3 beers and stop. But tomorrow, I say, "well, I had a few last night and I was fine. I can control this!" and I have a 6 pack. And the next day, I feel fine.... progressively, because of the increase over the days, I stop feeling or seeing the problem and in a week or maybe more, I'm back to a case a day for a week, abandoning my problems, causing new ones... and even if I can say to myself, "why the hell are you drinking so much again?", I'll do it until I make myself sick, both physically and emotionally.

At least that has been my sad cycle for quite some time now... years have proven I CAN'T control it. Now I'm just trying to convince myself, by looking to my past. How blind we can be... there's gotta be a good quote for that feeling...

Thank you so much for this thread... Like I said, I really needed it right now.

CarolD

How did your husband stay sober those previous 14 years?
With AA Yes?

My point is that he knows how to live sober
and evidently chooses to drink at this time.

Please see your erlier post on this Forum
I see no difference happening.

Are you still planning on divorce in Jan?

Blessings to the two of you

Shaneo20

queentree you may want to visit XXXXX
for help with your smoking.

Part of the reason I kept on drinking is that I did derive pleasure from it even though it caused so much anguish. After stopping drinking for a certain period I would inevitably downplay the trouble my drinking caused and romanticize the drunkenness. I would then drink, cause more problems and keep on drinking to cope with the shame I created. Eventually I would have enough of drinking and quit. But the cycle would start again.

After reading "Under the Influence" and attending AA I now understand the power alcohol has over me and how out of control my life was. Now my HP and clean living help me to feel better than the drink ever did.

savoy

Because when I was unrecovered I was insane.
In every sense of the word.

Tazman53

queenteree I will be honest and say I do not understand binge drinking the way your husband and many other alcoholics who are binge drinkers.

I was a maintenance drinker for many years, I drank every day just to feel normal, a normal day was a 12 pack or better, I did go on binges every once in a while where I would drink to get drunk for several days, but unlike your husband I only reduced my daily intake and never dried out.

For years what I called controled drinking was not getting drunk, of course if I failed at control one day that was okay in my alcoholic mind I had not lost control, I had simply gotten drunk and would do better the next day!

I could never have done like your husband does and detoxed for a few weeks and then binge for a few and then repeat that cycle. But that is me and my version of the disease, the one common denominator we alcoholics have is once we have that first drink we really do not know how many more will follow.

Signal30

I honestly do not know if it is possible for one who is not an alcoholic to fully understand one who is. I am very grateful I have AA to keep me sober. Like it is said alcohol is cunning, baffling, and powerful. An alcoholic may try all types methods to moderate and gain control. If that doesent work they will give excuses to why they have to drink. They may to try to hide there drinking. They will even pick alcohol over family, and friends. Chronic alcoholics will choose the gutter over their loving family. To the alcoholic, alcohol comes before everything. I have seen fellow alcoholics walk away from loved ones into the abyss of misery and death. I have seen a person who went back out, ran away from his wife and three kids, lived in a public park with only the bottle as his family, finally hanging himself from a tree.

If I was not an alcoholic, I would not be able to understand why someone would do that.

There is a solution. Thank God there is.


Tom

Elizabeth2007

It took me many years to accept that I was an alcoholic. Though for the last 2 year I was drinking I KNEW I was killing myself with the booze and it was out of control. I "tried" to quit many many times, but couldn't. Until the day came that I realized the true and deep consequences of what I was doing. To myself, my family and all around me. I decided that I wanted to LIVE not just exist in this horrid drunken cycle. I decided my children deserved better and so did my husband. I decided that I needed to make a choice, THAT NIGHT, what I was going to do. I came to an epiphany thanks to the help of a wonderful therapist.

I KNEW IN THAT NIGHT I HAD TO STOP.

I quit that night on April 30, 2007 and have not had a drop since. Yes I am an alcholic and were it not for the help of a good support group, my husband's unwavering support and love, some AA and therapy, I likely would have relapsed many times by now, but I haven't. In staying sober my heart has re-opened to the Lord and the healing is incredible.

But ultimately, alcoholism is a disease of the body AND mind. Until the alcoholic wants to get well, they will not take the steps necessary to stay quit.

It is not easy, the addiction never lets go and seeing all around us socially drinking or even over-drinking - but yet not being addicts. Its HARD. But every alcoholic needs to come to the "bottom" or place where they want to be better more than they want booze.

Sorry just my 2 cents.

I pray your husband finds sobriety and your family finds peace.