Shame & Pride!!!
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
Shame & Pride!!!
Talk about something that will keep some alcoholics drinking unto death, to me that is the one thing that combined with pride kills more of us then anything.
I was so ashamed of being unable to stop drinking or control my drinking that I hated myself, I was ashamed of myself because I did not have the will power to stop on my own.
Even though I knew I was an alcoholic for years I was ashamed of it because only weaklings were alcoholics and that was one thing I was not, my whole life I had always been able to do anything I put my mind to, I was successful.
Once alcohol had beaten me down to the point where I knew it was stop or die, shame be damned, I needed help and got it.
I am no longer ashamed to be an alcoholic, I now know that scientist have proven that alcoholism is a physical disease that as it progresses effects alcoholics, mentally, physically, and spiritually. A normal person can not drink so much that they become an alcoholic! I have a disease, I do not lack moral character or will power.
I had a lot of shame of things I have done in my life that I used alcohol to soothe the shame with, I did those things, not the alcohol, but I no longer use alcohol to take away the shame, I have learned "We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it." I am not proud of some of my past, but the shame is in the past as well.
Shame and Pride darn near killed me, thanks to AA I no longer carry any shame, I still have pride, but I also have a healthy dose of humility to go along with it. I have a long long way to go, but the 12 steps have made that path so much easier and shame free.
Please who ever reads this AA or not, do not let pride and shame stand in your way of reaching out for help to get sober, there are an awful lot of dead alcoholics due to thier pride and shame.
How did you all over come the shame and pride to finally quit drinking?
I was so ashamed of being unable to stop drinking or control my drinking that I hated myself, I was ashamed of myself because I did not have the will power to stop on my own.
Even though I knew I was an alcoholic for years I was ashamed of it because only weaklings were alcoholics and that was one thing I was not, my whole life I had always been able to do anything I put my mind to, I was successful.
Once alcohol had beaten me down to the point where I knew it was stop or die, shame be damned, I needed help and got it.
I am no longer ashamed to be an alcoholic, I now know that scientist have proven that alcoholism is a physical disease that as it progresses effects alcoholics, mentally, physically, and spiritually. A normal person can not drink so much that they become an alcoholic! I have a disease, I do not lack moral character or will power.
I had a lot of shame of things I have done in my life that I used alcohol to soothe the shame with, I did those things, not the alcohol, but I no longer use alcohol to take away the shame, I have learned "We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it." I am not proud of some of my past, but the shame is in the past as well.
Shame and Pride darn near killed me, thanks to AA I no longer carry any shame, I still have pride, but I also have a healthy dose of humility to go along with it. I have a long long way to go, but the 12 steps have made that path so much easier and shame free.
Please who ever reads this AA or not, do not let pride and shame stand in your way of reaching out for help to get sober, there are an awful lot of dead alcoholics due to thier pride and shame.
How did you all over come the shame and pride to finally quit drinking?
dum vita est spes est
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: vita secundum nex
Posts: 287
Taz,
Great thread!
"Our strengths lie dangerously close to our weaknesses." I completely agree - pride got me to alcoholism and shame kept me there.
Oddly enough the very same issues got me to consider sobriety. I was too proud to give up the fight of losing my job and too ashamed to not at least try to stay sober one day at a time for both God and for those that are still suffering from the disease (whether it be the addict of those close to the addict.)
You're thread really got me thinking though - balance in all things, all things in balance, moderation truly is the key.
I think if I could master humility, that would give me the perfect blend of pride and shame to stay sober and live a very enriched life. Thanks for the thread.
PR
Great thread!
"Our strengths lie dangerously close to our weaknesses." I completely agree - pride got me to alcoholism and shame kept me there.
Oddly enough the very same issues got me to consider sobriety. I was too proud to give up the fight of losing my job and too ashamed to not at least try to stay sober one day at a time for both God and for those that are still suffering from the disease (whether it be the addict of those close to the addict.)
You're thread really got me thinking though - balance in all things, all things in balance, moderation truly is the key.
I think if I could master humility, that would give me the perfect blend of pride and shame to stay sober and live a very enriched life. Thanks for the thread.
PR
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 363
In a way, my shame fed on itself. I was ashamed of my drinking, and then I would drink because the shame was too great. My pride entered into it in that, I thought I was a pretty sharp cookie, too smart to let the booze take over my life.
So, I was ashamed of my behaviour and the choices I was making. Fair enough. For me, there was only one real choice and that was to abstain. In those days I was utterly and completely disgusted wth myself.
I realized that I was not my behaviour, and my behaviour could change with the choices I made. I struggled with this for a long time, continuing to relapse when I felt better and sinking back each time to where I was.
The correct choices started becoming easier for me. I was still making wrong decisions, knowing they were wrong, but my behaviour started to improve as a result.
Every time I made the choice to drink I knew full well where it would lead. This awareness was confirmed time and time again.
I overcame eventually the physical addiction. I chose to participate on several on-line forums and the techniques and practices learned are helping me to make more positive choices to cope with the psychological addiction to alcohol. CBT and REBT have helped me a lot with this.
So, that's where I'm at. I like where my thinking is now, and more comfortable dealing with life without alcohol. My past cannot be changed and although I am ashamed of my behaviour, I'm happy that I make better choices now. The future looks brighter as I gain confidence in myself. Had I lost my sense of pride in myself I doubt I would be where I am.
Keep well
Ron
So, I was ashamed of my behaviour and the choices I was making. Fair enough. For me, there was only one real choice and that was to abstain. In those days I was utterly and completely disgusted wth myself.
I realized that I was not my behaviour, and my behaviour could change with the choices I made. I struggled with this for a long time, continuing to relapse when I felt better and sinking back each time to where I was.
The correct choices started becoming easier for me. I was still making wrong decisions, knowing they were wrong, but my behaviour started to improve as a result.
Every time I made the choice to drink I knew full well where it would lead. This awareness was confirmed time and time again.
I overcame eventually the physical addiction. I chose to participate on several on-line forums and the techniques and practices learned are helping me to make more positive choices to cope with the psychological addiction to alcohol. CBT and REBT have helped me a lot with this.
So, that's where I'm at. I like where my thinking is now, and more comfortable dealing with life without alcohol. My past cannot be changed and although I am ashamed of my behaviour, I'm happy that I make better choices now. The future looks brighter as I gain confidence in myself. Had I lost my sense of pride in myself I doubt I would be where I am.
Keep well
Ron
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Colorado Springs CO
Posts: 889
Shame, that always helped. I think I'd want to drink and then go find a reason. All I remember is wanting to drink, no matter what. Drink and be left alone, particularly by quarrelsome judgemental types. Drink whether I was happy, sad, grateful, irritated, tired, alert, wistful, anxious, contented, romantic, disgusted, giddy, serious, whatever. Except asleep. Can't recall ever wanting to drink when I was asleep. Now, every once in a while I'll dream I'm drunk. What a strange life!
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
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I entered a very freeing state of mind since I came to AA, I have lost the shame of being an alcoholic, I have no problem what so ever letting someone know I am an alcoholic if the situation or conversation warrants it, I don't wear a sign announcing it to the world, but I will let it be known that I am an alcoholic when some one makes an ignorant statement about alcoholics or alcoholism.
I am starting steps 8 & 9 and am very thankful that I have lost that shame I once had because part of making amends to those I have harmed will involve my admission of being an alcoholic.
AA by its very nature & name assures the alcoholic that the fact that they are an alcoholic will remain anonymous allowing them to begin recovery with out an open admission to the world that they are an alcoholic. The alcoholics I know in AA that are either recovered or advanced in thier recovery are like me in that they have no shame associated with being an alcoholic any more, there are several people who give their first and last name when they introduce them selfs as alcoholics, I would also, but "Hi, my name is Martin and I am an alcoholic" seems to naturally roll off of my lips, perhaps the first time I speak I will introduce myself as a "recovered alcoholic", not cured, but recovered.
I am starting steps 8 & 9 and am very thankful that I have lost that shame I once had because part of making amends to those I have harmed will involve my admission of being an alcoholic.
AA by its very nature & name assures the alcoholic that the fact that they are an alcoholic will remain anonymous allowing them to begin recovery with out an open admission to the world that they are an alcoholic. The alcoholics I know in AA that are either recovered or advanced in thier recovery are like me in that they have no shame associated with being an alcoholic any more, there are several people who give their first and last name when they introduce them selfs as alcoholics, I would also, but "Hi, my name is Martin and I am an alcoholic" seems to naturally roll off of my lips, perhaps the first time I speak I will introduce myself as a "recovered alcoholic", not cured, but recovered.
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,580
My shame was nowhere near as palpable as my pride and ego. I could drink away my shame... but that damn pride and ego was there 24-7. I had tried to quit so many times on my own with a willpower bloated by my ego. This time something was different; I was defeated...my will and ego shattered. I could almost feel the walls and defenses of my ego crumbling all around me..exposing the wounded and fragile self shaking in fear..desperate for a better way...and finally, finally, finally... open to recieve.
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parentrecovers I know you are learning some things about us, but do you really think you understand how we think?
I mean hell I think normal people are messed up because they can get up from a bar and leave half a drink!!! How wasteful! LOL
I mean hell I think normal people are messed up because they can get up from a bar and leave half a drink!!! How wasteful! LOL
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: chicago il
Posts: 42
Like Parentrecovers, I find a glimpse into understanding this disease a tad bit more even if I do not understand it all and I think it helps me to hear that there is someone else out there who wants to drink and be left alone " by quarrelsome judgemental types" since I can see myself in that light and that it is not helping the situation. I think that there is a lot of ways that pride and shame hurt all of us. Thanks for tazman for starting this thread and for sharing a bit of wisdom with all of us.
Coffee Drinker
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lobstah Land
Posts: 1,122
Shame, I was filled with it. Shame and loathing for what I had become.
It was not until I fully and totally accepted the fact that I am an alcoholic that the shame subsided.
I had to make peace wit the fact that I am an alcoholic.
I am no longer ashamed.
Would I be ashamed if diagnosed with cancer? Of course not.
Now I wake up in the morning, say my prayers and look forward to the day ahead.
What a wonderful blessing.
Thanks Taz for this thread, you really made me think.
Ted
It was not until I fully and totally accepted the fact that I am an alcoholic that the shame subsided.
I had to make peace wit the fact that I am an alcoholic.
I am no longer ashamed.
Would I be ashamed if diagnosed with cancer? Of course not.
Now I wake up in the morning, say my prayers and look forward to the day ahead.
What a wonderful blessing.
Thanks Taz for this thread, you really made me think.
Ted
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: anomaly
Posts: 2,180
Throw a little bit of guilt to top it off and i'm a off and a running
to the dark side of the moon. lol
Impending doom...if i was going to go to hell, I was going to go out with a blast.
AA taught me...I'm not a bad person trying to get good
I'm a sick person trying to get well.
to the dark side of the moon. lol
Impending doom...if i was going to go to hell, I was going to go out with a blast.
AA taught me...I'm not a bad person trying to get good
I'm a sick person trying to get well.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
AA taught me...I'm not a bad person trying to get good
I'm a sick person trying to get well.
I'm a sick person trying to get well.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,415
G*d, I could write a huge essay on pride!
I think when the medievals used the word "pride" - which is defined as "to put one's self on a par with G*d" - they were describing what they saw in certain people. And I think what they saw was this - someone who
Knows everything and can be told nothing
Is terribly concerned with what other people think of them
Responds emotionally to all sorts of things that they shouldn't - the weather for instance!
Lies to reinforce their feelings of importance
Retrospectively rationalises - oh, I meant that all along!
And on and on.
I think the medievals description of pride, as a psychological state, shows the basis for all manner of mental illnesses - we can't sustain delusions - everything is within my power, the universe is here to make me happy, if I get emotional about it it will change - and eventually the fact that we cannot shore up these delusions leads us to crisis. Or crisis after crisis.
I think that what the medievals wrote about we recognise as egotism - the fundamental and unconscious belief that we are the centre of the universe - a belief that we've never managed to shake off since infanthood. We think of ourselves as G*ds, but as failed G*ds - megalomaniacs with an inferiority complex. So we have overinflated senses of our own potential, which, because we always fail to meet them, we then criticise ourselves repeatedly. I don't think that state is limited to alcoholics though! But all the people who suffer from it whether alcoholics or not suffer a form of stunted growth. And like the BB says, we need to experience a "vital change necessary to bring about recovery". In other words, grow up. It's a tough truth but a truth nonetheless. Self-importance, grandiosity, self-pity, self-obssession, self-indulgence - these and many more are manifestations of my condition. Every philosophy of personal development and change in the world has that in common - change. Letting go of the self-centredness. For many decades I read them and nothing changed because I was unwilling to let go of self.
**** - it did become an essay.
I think when the medievals used the word "pride" - which is defined as "to put one's self on a par with G*d" - they were describing what they saw in certain people. And I think what they saw was this - someone who
Knows everything and can be told nothing
Is terribly concerned with what other people think of them
Responds emotionally to all sorts of things that they shouldn't - the weather for instance!
Lies to reinforce their feelings of importance
Retrospectively rationalises - oh, I meant that all along!
And on and on.
I think the medievals description of pride, as a psychological state, shows the basis for all manner of mental illnesses - we can't sustain delusions - everything is within my power, the universe is here to make me happy, if I get emotional about it it will change - and eventually the fact that we cannot shore up these delusions leads us to crisis. Or crisis after crisis.
I think that what the medievals wrote about we recognise as egotism - the fundamental and unconscious belief that we are the centre of the universe - a belief that we've never managed to shake off since infanthood. We think of ourselves as G*ds, but as failed G*ds - megalomaniacs with an inferiority complex. So we have overinflated senses of our own potential, which, because we always fail to meet them, we then criticise ourselves repeatedly. I don't think that state is limited to alcoholics though! But all the people who suffer from it whether alcoholics or not suffer a form of stunted growth. And like the BB says, we need to experience a "vital change necessary to bring about recovery". In other words, grow up. It's a tough truth but a truth nonetheless. Self-importance, grandiosity, self-pity, self-obssession, self-indulgence - these and many more are manifestations of my condition. Every philosophy of personal development and change in the world has that in common - change. Letting go of the self-centredness. For many decades I read them and nothing changed because I was unwilling to let go of self.
**** - it did become an essay.
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