There is the manic-depressive type?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: London, England
Posts: 70
There is the manic-depressive type?
There is the manic-depressive type, who is, perhaps, the least understood by his friends, and about whom a whole chapter could be written.
Joe
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Colorado Springs CO
Posts: 889
I don't understand any of the classifications mentioned in the Doctor's opinion. They seem rather hastily constructed, and I haven't seen this type of differentiation in the alkies I meet. I take them with a grain of salt. I really like what Dr Silkworth had to say in other parts of the letter though.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Port Carbon Pa.
Posts: 10
Often when reading things like the big book or even the bible I find it helpfull to remember that they were writen in another time. The Dr.'s preseptive might have been colored by the times he lived in. For me I like the old addage "If you'll dirnk for anything, you'll dirnk for anything." Years ago in my first recovery I heard people they "sliped." Well I never sliped I hade to make a conscious decision to use anything. Not only that I hade to go to considerable truble to do it. Later I figered out that I was trying to get away with something. Looking for loopholes or technicalitys to use to say see they really don't know everything. Or See this stuff really dosn't work. In reallity I didn't like it because I hadn't thought of it and someone else had. But that's my stuff.
PS. If you do write the chapter I'd like to read it.
PS. If you do write the chapter I'd like to read it.
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Colorado Springs CO
Posts: 889
Well I never sliped I hade to make a conscious decision to use anything.
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Laredo, Texas
Posts: 29
I either believe EVERYTHING the Big Book says or I dont believe it at all..
That's the point I come to when I suffer from untreated alcoholism. I dont argue about what the solution is. Because they outlined it specifically in the first 164 pages for us to simply follow it and grow from that experience. There are many other opinions shared constantly in AA meetings I have been to about what the Book says. Yet I hear little sometimes of what people actually DO that the Big Book specifically asks us to do. I am not sure if I am making sense of this.
But I can totally identify with all the types that the Doctor's Opinion talks about because no matter what your alcoholic drama is, you cannot start drinking without developing the phenomenon of craving. I found it easy and so simple to identify with the physical craving part that the Doctors Opinion talks about. Later on as I was taken through the rest of step 1, I was shown in the pages of There is A Solution and More About Alcoholism (pgs 23-43) about the mental obsession that accompanies it. Later on the Book goes into specific detail in the How it Works and there after upon doing the inventory how we alcoholics suffer from a Spiritual Malady in which our disease is deeply rooted.
I know how complicated this all may sound, but in laymen's terms, The Doctors Opinion told me that i have an allergy to alcohol when I put it into my body. The physical craving does not occur until I put alcohol into my body. Before I drank I suffered from the MENTAL OBSESSION..Two different things. Alcoholics who say they are "craving" alcohol when they havent had it in a while are "obsessing" about it, not "craving" it.
Do you take the drink or does the drink take you?
There is a chinese saying that someone shared with me on this section that goes like this:
When the man takes the drink, the drink takes the drink, then the drink takes the man.
That's the point I come to when I suffer from untreated alcoholism. I dont argue about what the solution is. Because they outlined it specifically in the first 164 pages for us to simply follow it and grow from that experience. There are many other opinions shared constantly in AA meetings I have been to about what the Book says. Yet I hear little sometimes of what people actually DO that the Big Book specifically asks us to do. I am not sure if I am making sense of this.
But I can totally identify with all the types that the Doctor's Opinion talks about because no matter what your alcoholic drama is, you cannot start drinking without developing the phenomenon of craving. I found it easy and so simple to identify with the physical craving part that the Doctors Opinion talks about. Later on as I was taken through the rest of step 1, I was shown in the pages of There is A Solution and More About Alcoholism (pgs 23-43) about the mental obsession that accompanies it. Later on the Book goes into specific detail in the How it Works and there after upon doing the inventory how we alcoholics suffer from a Spiritual Malady in which our disease is deeply rooted.
I know how complicated this all may sound, but in laymen's terms, The Doctors Opinion told me that i have an allergy to alcohol when I put it into my body. The physical craving does not occur until I put alcohol into my body. Before I drank I suffered from the MENTAL OBSESSION..Two different things. Alcoholics who say they are "craving" alcohol when they havent had it in a while are "obsessing" about it, not "craving" it.
Do you take the drink or does the drink take you?
There is a chinese saying that someone shared with me on this section that goes like this:
When the man takes the drink, the drink takes the drink, then the drink takes the man.
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: scotland
Posts: 2
o my goodness joe - u were reading my mind four years before i thought it - lol
have u written it yet
i have googled and googled
it will put be back out there i know it will - its a get out clause - i want it cleared up
have u written it yet
i have googled and googled
it will put be back out there i know it will - its a get out clause - i want it cleared up
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Lowell
Posts: 345
And this came to my mind.
"There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest."
It came to mind because we are on a thread in the "Alcoholism - 12 Step Support" section, now on "How it Works" chapter 5, page 58, last sentence of the 1st paragraph.
So as you can see, "honesty is the best policy." Willingness helps a lot too.
Harry
"There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest."
It came to mind because we are on a thread in the "Alcoholism - 12 Step Support" section, now on "How it Works" chapter 5, page 58, last sentence of the 1st paragraph.
So as you can see, "honesty is the best policy." Willingness helps a lot too.
Harry
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
Luckily, nobody needs to understand the "types" of ppl because it goes on to say the types are irrelevant - that your or my type has nothing to do with the disease of alcoholism.
In the spiritual realm and when dealing with a Higher Power to do for you what you can't do for yourself "type" is not a problem.
and Ameliorater.... you may want to look at page 24 again. While I'll agree, "slip" is a misnomer, so is "I chose to drink" if you're the type of alcoholic the book describes.
In the spiritual realm and when dealing with a Higher Power to do for you what you can't do for yourself "type" is not a problem.
and Ameliorater.... you may want to look at page 24 again. While I'll agree, "slip" is a misnomer, so is "I chose to drink" if you're the type of alcoholic the book describes.
Striving to be a better Man!
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 266
I think it means that with certain mental issues alcoholism is common. It's very common for people to self medicate these conditions. I find it interesting that this was noted back when there was very little known about the condition when the BB was written.
Try not to let this little thing affect your program, there are a lot of us that have bp.
Try not to let this little thing affect your program, there are a lot of us that have bp.
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
I beg to differ blackstrat. Here's what it says...
The classification of alcoholics seems most difficult, and in much detail is outside the scope of this book. There are, of course, the psychopaths who are emotionally unstable. We are all familiar with this type. They are always "going on the wagon for keeps." They are over-remorseful and make many resolutions, but never a decision. (dear God.... I can only imagine how those lines would fly in the newcomers "room" here on SR...... -DT)
There is the type of man who is unwilling to admit that he cannot take a drink. He plans various ways of drinking. He changes his brand or his environment. There is the type who always believes that after being entirely free from alcohol for a period of time he can take a drink without danger. There is the manic-depressive type, who is, perhaps, the lease understood by his friends, and about who a whole chapter could be written.
There are types entirely normal in every respect except in the effect alcohol has upon them. they are often able, intelligent, friendly people.
All these, and many others, have one symptom in common: they cannot start drinking without developing the phenomenon of craving.
-------
Dr Silkworth basically said ALL types of ppl can be alcoholics. Manic depressives, psychopaths who claim to have it beat/drink/act overly remorseful/resolve again but never decide, "normal" looking ppl who are "normal" in every way, the folks unwilling to admit they have a problem.... then he says "all these and many others"
There is no "type" of person alcoholism focuses on. Anyone and everyone could possibly be alcoholic.....HOWEVER, it's only alcoholics who develop the phenomenon of craving.
So...if you develop craving once you start, you're probably (hehe) an alcoholic....regardless of what type or sort of person you are.
The classification of alcoholics seems most difficult, and in much detail is outside the scope of this book. There are, of course, the psychopaths who are emotionally unstable. We are all familiar with this type. They are always "going on the wagon for keeps." They are over-remorseful and make many resolutions, but never a decision. (dear God.... I can only imagine how those lines would fly in the newcomers "room" here on SR...... -DT)
There is the type of man who is unwilling to admit that he cannot take a drink. He plans various ways of drinking. He changes his brand or his environment. There is the type who always believes that after being entirely free from alcohol for a period of time he can take a drink without danger. There is the manic-depressive type, who is, perhaps, the lease understood by his friends, and about who a whole chapter could be written.
There are types entirely normal in every respect except in the effect alcohol has upon them. they are often able, intelligent, friendly people.
All these, and many others, have one symptom in common: they cannot start drinking without developing the phenomenon of craving.
-------
Dr Silkworth basically said ALL types of ppl can be alcoholics. Manic depressives, psychopaths who claim to have it beat/drink/act overly remorseful/resolve again but never decide, "normal" looking ppl who are "normal" in every way, the folks unwilling to admit they have a problem.... then he says "all these and many others"
There is no "type" of person alcoholism focuses on. Anyone and everyone could possibly be alcoholic.....HOWEVER, it's only alcoholics who develop the phenomenon of craving.
So...if you develop craving once you start, you're probably (hehe) an alcoholic....regardless of what type or sort of person you are.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
jambonnie....Welcome to SR...
My AA home group has many members happily sucessfully
recovered who also take various med's for Bi-Polar.
I have no idea what they take...it's nothing we share about
either in AA or on our site.
I am not Bi-Polar but I do have chronic problems
that require daily medication.
It's not been a hinderance in working my Steps.
Good to see a new member...
My AA home group has many members happily sucessfully
recovered who also take various med's for Bi-Polar.
I have no idea what they take...it's nothing we share about
either in AA or on our site.
I am not Bi-Polar but I do have chronic problems
that require daily medication.
It's not been a hinderance in working my Steps.
Good to see a new member...
Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: scotland
Posts: 2
what was he implying though - silkworth
i dont think you are all getting what i am getting at - i have had a questoin mark at this for 5 years in my book "and about whom a whole chapter could be written" - what would he have said - would he have said we are different and need special care and attention etc - its left wide open for to be a get out clause for me !!! i need to get over this hurdle
dee 74 and what does it matter if this was originally an old thread -
it is still relevant today as is the big book which i am refering too - geeeez
i dont think you are all getting what i am getting at - i have had a questoin mark at this for 5 years in my book "and about whom a whole chapter could be written" - what would he have said - would he have said we are different and need special care and attention etc - its left wide open for to be a get out clause for me !!! i need to get over this hurdle
dee 74 and what does it matter if this was originally an old thread -
it is still relevant today as is the big book which i am refering too - geeeez
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
I guess I did mis understand too because I thought you were useing
Google to find whatever Joe was thinking of writing.
I have no idea what Dr. Silkworth would be saying these days
considering made medical strides in all sorts of areas.
Sorry if I am missing your point.
You might want to begin a new thread with your topic
to make sure other members will read and reply.
This one is a bit confused
All my best....
Life the gift of recovery!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 7,061
I am bipolar and have been sober nearly 10 years now.
In my opinion the passage: simply means that a manic-depressive (bipolar) person can have difficulty maintaining sobriety if they do not also address their mental health issues.
I have worked hard over the years to get the bipolar stabilized. It has been a more difficult fight than getting sober. While drinking my bipolar did not matter as the alcohol seemed to help stabilize it. It became very pronounced once I quit drinking. That made it very hard to stay sober in early sobriety although I did stay sober because I had a strong support group and worked the Steps promptly so I could understand and apply them to my life.
I maintain my sobriety through AA but I also maintain my mental health by seeing a mental health provider and taking the medications necessary for me to treat my disease.
In my opinion the passage:
There is the manic-depressive type, who is, perhaps, the least understood by his friends, and about whom a whole chapter could be written.
I have worked hard over the years to get the bipolar stabilized. It has been a more difficult fight than getting sober. While drinking my bipolar did not matter as the alcohol seemed to help stabilize it. It became very pronounced once I quit drinking. That made it very hard to stay sober in early sobriety although I did stay sober because I had a strong support group and worked the Steps promptly so I could understand and apply them to my life.
I maintain my sobriety through AA but I also maintain my mental health by seeing a mental health provider and taking the medications necessary for me to treat my disease.
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