Pathwaytofree

I'm very sad right now. Over the past year, I had been working with a sponsee and things were going very well. She's very different than any sponsee I've had. When I started to feel overwhelmed with sponsoring people in addition to dealing with personal things, I told her that I thought I might have to give up sponsoring her. But I changed my mind, because she truly is a pleasure to work with, and wasn't causing me stress like my other sponsees were.

She's rarely called me with drama, and the couple of times she's called me hysterically crying, I have been there for her. She has a lot on her plate right now, so I've often gone out of my way to meet her where she lives, instead of having her come out to where I live. I told her that when she starts sponsoring people, she shouldn't do that unless she sponsors someone like herself. She's a rarity in that she's very mature and I know she's not lying about all that she juggles in her life.

We had sort of similar upbringings, so whenever something happens in my family, I go out of my way to tell her about it, tell her how I reacted or responded to it, even including the times I didn't react well, to show her that I am human and am still growing myself and am not perfect in the moment. It was a good way to show her why Steps 10, 11, and 12 are so important to do every day. I do not believe sponsors should keep those parts where we're not perfect away from their sponsees. We are human. And life still will be life after our spiritual awakening.

She has pointed out a few times how she admires the fact that I am not sponsoring her the way my abusive sponsor sponsored me, but instead how I would've liked to be sponsored. I appreciated that she saw that.

She's taken a long time getting through her Step 4. I've tried to gently nudge her forward, but at the same time have given her space to figure it out. In my former home group where we met, we weren't the type to push people to write or give deadlines, because it was supposed to be between the sponsee and God. I tried for a happy medium. I'd check in with her to see how the writing was going, if I hadn't heard from her in a while.

She stopped going to my home group shortly after I met her and started working with her, because it wasn't close to her house and she didn't like how cold and stand-offish the people there were. (People either love or hate my former home group). So I didn't see her at other meetings, but I'd often ask her what meetings she was going to.

Often times if she was struggling with old resentments while writing, or a new resentment or something, and I remembered something similar that had happened in my life, I'd take the time to share that stuff with her. I included both my old pre-12 step resentments, how I reacted, and how I could've responded differently if I had done the steps, as well as how I react to any new resentments using the steps as a tool.

Whenever she got stuck with her 4th step, she'd email me her questions and I'd also read some of her writing as a spot-check. Not many of the sponsors in my former home group did this sort of thing, but I wanted to be more hands-on because that's what I would've liked. She always said my feedback helped her immensely and was always appreciative.

Every few weeks we'd meet for lunch to talk. The conversations always drained me greatly, because talking about personal stuff is always draining. But she always listened to how I applied our steps to my former resentments. I've had to cancel other plans with friends after our meetings because I've needed to go home and nap. It's not that she drained me--she's not like that. It's that I found it very draining sharing so much of my past. That's a big reason why I decided to only work with one sponsee. I enjoyed our meetings, and was giving her more than many people in my former home group do. Many there just meet to give instructions and nothing else.

When she told me she was celebrating her one year sobriety date, I was beyond thrilled!!!!! She had often shared with me different milestones as she went through her writing--personal and professional ones, and she said the writing had a lot to do with it all. I was never fearful that she'd relapse. I did sense at times when the writing was difficult for her, and I worried how she would be through it, but I had to let that go and let her grow through it. She always was able to get through any of the obstacles with her step work.

She told me when she was going to be getting her one year coin. I was so excited for her!!!!! I gave her a small sobriety gift that she really appreciated. I wrote her a sincere and genuine card from the heart of how proud I was of her hard work in sobriety. I asked her if she wanted me to introduce her when she accepts her one year coin at her meeting. She got a little uncomfortable, and then told me that "a friend in AA" was going to introduce her--the same friend who gave her her 30-day coin before she and I knew each other.

I thought that was a little odd that she didn't want her sponsor to introduce her, but I wasn't hurt or anything. I let it go. But then I asked her if she wanted me to be there for moral support and to cheer her on? I was more than willing to drive the distance to this meeting, if it would mean to show her my support. She then got uncomfortable and said, "Oh that's okay, I get nervous if there's too many people around that I know. I'm nervous about speaking". Again I thought that was a little odd that she wouldn't want her sponsor there, but I changed the subject and gave her tips for how to share when you get your one-year coin. I then called her afterward and asked her how it went.

She wanted to meet again for lunch and to talk more about step work. I've given her the last set of Step 4 instructions, but she wanted to talk about that part of the writing. We made plans to meet. This time around, I asked her if she could meet me at a place closer to my home town. Initially she had agreed.

I had been going through some personal stuff of which I did not and do not share with her. In the mist of it, when I was very anxious about something and hadn't slept well the last few nights, she texted me to ask if we could meet in her home town, because she was very tired and had plans with her sister the next day and so would be even more tired the day we were to meet. In the moment and frame of mind I was in, I got angry and annoyed at that. I thought it was selfish. I told her that I was extremely tired too, and that I was her sponsor, and I reminded her that sponsees are supposed to meet their sponsors in their home town, and how I had often gone out of my way for her to not do that. I admit I was irritable and harsh in how I said it. But I realized it afterward, and I apologized profousely. She ignored my apology and said she needed time to rethink our working together because she was shocked in how I talked to her.

I was so upset by this, because she and I really had a fantastic sponsor/sponsee relationship, and I even thought we'd be friends after I got her through the steps 1-9 and into 10, 11, and 12. I overdid my apology. I sent her a very long email trying to explain what was going on in my life that made me react the way that I did. She sent me a very curt short "sorry you have a lot going on" and I felt it was rather dismissive. I again tried to apologize and told her how absolutely awful I felt about how I spoke to her.

I haven't heard back from her. Nothing. Not even a drop of class from her to say "I'm still trying to decide if I want to work with you going forward" or, "I've decided that after you talked to me harshly that I don't want to work with you anymore, thank you for sponsoring me this far."

I am beyond hurt and just sad. It's a loss for me. I've spent the last few days beating myself up over how I reacted to what she said, how I misunderstood it as just a simple request that I could've just said "No, I'm sorry but either you meet me in my town or we'll have to put this off until you can." That's what sponsors do. They don't let the sponsee control things. Perhaps she was taking advantage of the fact that I often did things other sponsors including my own didn't do for me. When my sponsors said to meet them in a certain place, no matter the day, time, location or if I had to sit in rush hour traffic, I was there without complaint.

The other elephant in the room, is that it seems rather obvious that she had two sponsors and kept this from me. I am 99.9% certain who may have suggested this to her, and I have to see if I still have his phone number because I am going to ask him WTF? I recall when she and I first started working together, she'd often say something like, "My friend in AA said ________". I thought she was referring to a friend she was also going through the steps with. I'm assuming she means the "friend" who is actually her second sponsor who gave her her coin.

It's not on heard of for people to go to my former home group for a "step sponsor" because of the way we take people through the steps, and then have a "daily sponsor" for non step work. However, it's not common and if they do this, they are upfront and say "I will be having you as my step sponsor, and I also have another sponsor in my home group" or something like that. I feel like I was completely used and lied to by her. I should've spoken up about the whole one year anniversary thing.

Another red flag, is that sometimes during our chats, I'd teach her a little bit about stuff to keep in mind with when she sponsors women. They were things that came up, and things I wanted her to remember for when she's there. Also it's a way to remind a sponsee that they will be a sponsor one day too, and to keep moving forward with the steps. She'd often say to me, "I'm not going to sponsor anyone." I never called her out on this or discussed it more. I let it go, figuring she'd change her mind once she got through amends. I realize now that was another thing I should have let go.

I should have called her out on it, especially since I clearly remember when we met to do Steps 1, 2, 3 (which took FOUR hours instead of the usual hour because she had a ton of questions) I asked her "Are you willing to help God's children by taking them through the steps?" and she said "Yes".

I now feel that since she and I were basically finished with Step 4, she will continue the rest of the steps with her "AA friend" and basically cut me out like I never existed in the first place.


I feel used.
I feel like a fool.
I feel sad.
I feel drained and burnt out.

I'm very sad.

Tommyh

I would say I hope you feel better PTF. Maybe thank God for the chance to help pass AA on to her for the way and time you got too. She kept you in the solution.
No one here knows the future. She may be back with you shortly or some other time in the future, who knows.
I never had a sponsor who I have forgotten. I appreciate everything each one has done or tried to do to help me. Same thing with sponsees.
I had this one guy and we had multiple falling outs during 20 years. He would fire me, I would quit, etc
back and forth for 20 years. In the end, before he died, he asked for me to come to the hospital. I did and I realized, none of that stuff was as important as the feeling between us at that moment.
there is still something there, and I hope it shows itself one day and then you will probably be very happy with it.

Ken33xx

I'm sorry you feel down. Best to live and learn. I've had two falling out with AA members and it was rough because I worked with one of them.

But I have learned a lot in AA and that includes what not to do.

The next time you will be better able to read the warning signs.

Take care.

hellrzr

Do you have a sponsor you work with? Sounds like you have a lot going on yourself. Something like this shouldn't be that big of a deal. People drop and pick up sponsors all the time. Not that it's a good thing to do but it happens. I think you are taking this way to personally. Seems like your classic, overly sensitive, alcoholic personality is shining through on this one. Hopefully you have discussed this with your sponsor and are getting good advice.

My grand sponsor once told me that he didn't give a **** if a sponsee stayed sober or not. He sponsored because it kept him sober. Sounds like this person has helped keep you sober so I would say you have come out ok in the end.

One more thing, it sounds like maybe you pushed this person too much about sponsorship. No one should be sponsoring anyway at least until they are on step 9.... at least that's the rule of thumb they use in my area. There are lots of folks who don't sponsor but help in various other ways. Lots of times if you just give people time than sponsorship will just sort of happen. Funny how if you just try your best to always do the next right thing that stuff just happens to work out.

AAPJ

PTF I am sorry for your situation. After reading your thread I guess all I can share is something an old timer with almost 40 years told me. I probably will not get this quite right but he said something like this.

I have sponsored over 100 people in AA. Most of them failed to stay sober and others did not like my personality. So now I go in to a sponsor/sponsee relationship with the expectation that there is less than a 10% chance that the relationship will last long term.

I guess like you he learned this the hard way. Also the old timer did not stop sponsoring folks, he just adjusted his expectations.

Pathwaytofree

Thanks, Tommy. That's a helpful way to view it. I helped her and she helped me. Maybe it being temporary was part of the plan.

I will try to keep this in mind.

This says so much. I guess it's all ego-human-stuff and when it all comes down to it, none of it really does matter when that stuff is finally shed. I'm glad you two had closure in a spiritual manner.

As always, thank you Tommy.

Pathwaytofree

Thank you, Ken. One of many gifts from AA I got was to learn how to stay factual instead of letting my emotions get in the way. That helped me to understand how to live, make mistakes, and learn from them. But I still struggle with that sometimes. I improved with each new sponsee I worked with. But this one was different--so I thought.

You make a good point, too, about us learning what not to do. I know I shouldn't take this personally or blame myself.

It's a gift that instead of copping a resentment, I actually allowed myself to feel sad and disappointed.

Pathwaytofree

No, I don't have a sponsor currently. The people on SR help me. I understand why you assumed what you did. However, I am not being overly sensitive here. I really enjoyed my conversations with her and I felt like we had a strong sponsor/sponsee relationship.

With all due respect to your grand sponsor, this is one of a number of things in 12 step groups that have never sat right with me. I remember going to see some speakers at one of those all day events. It was on Step 12. The room was packed. I knew of one of the speakers, and he was probably my second favorite 12-step circuit speakers. However, I was floored when they both started to talk about sponsees. They had a certain nickname they used for sponsees. And there was zero empathy or regard for whether the sponsees stayed sober, or not. And we all know that if a real alcoholic doesn't stay sober, most likely he or she will die.

This kind of attitude makes absolutely no sense to me. In AA and other 12 step groups, there is so much emphasis on serving others, helping God's children, loving others, being kind, patient, tolerant, etc. And yet when it comes to taking people through the steps, sponsors out there don't care if the sponsee stays sober?! How would it have felt if when you came into AA and you found out that your sponsor, and all the sponsors in the room, didn't care if you lived or died?!

I learned this the hard way. After having what I thought was a genuine friendship with my former abusive sponsor, where we'd often chat on the phone like old friends for an hour or so, I see I was just something to keep her sober or add interest to her morning when she was bored. I see it clearly now in hindsight.

Yes I get that sponsoring others is Step 12. So it's about us doing a step to stay sober. But the point of the steps is to stay connected to God. Tell me how the heck it is a connection to God if we don't care if a sponsee stays sober or not? True it's not up to us if a sponsee stays sober or not. But I sure as hell *care* about another human being if they stay sober or not because I know what'll likely happen if a real alcoholic doesn't stay sober. Why would I laugh, make jokes, and makeup an insulting nickname for sponsees and be 100% selfish that I only sponsor them for MY sobriety? This makes no sense.

Yes doing step 12 helps with our sobriety. Yes I grew more spiritually while helping her and teaching her, because it reiterated stuff for me. But I still was invested in this sponsor-sponsee relationship.

This is just another of many things that has made me feel in the past few months that maybe AA just isn't a good fit for me and I need something else.

Nope. I only brought it up here and there just so she could have a snipet of the future steps to keep her moving forward toward them. My sponsor did that with me, and I thought it was a good idea. She doesn't read or listen to the other chapters in the big book at her other meetings. I didn't want her to forget that it's not just "write a 4th step and then you have a spiritual awakening and life is wonderful" sorta thing.

Yup same here.

Tell me how "not caring if a sponsee stays sober or not" is part of "do the next right thing."

Then tell me how only taking a sponsee through the steps for our own recovery is not being selfish or self-centered.

August252015

Path - I am sorry for your pain. You are a sensitive (in a good way) person - yet that same sensitivity comes with a price.

It sounds like you are still working thru accepting this situation. "I" find that when a lot of my statements begin with "I"....I need to look at how much "I" am making the situation [of any kind] about me not truly the other person. I would say a lot of things to you, gently and with respect, mainly to share my quite different experience with the steps and (now my third) sponsor. However, here's just one thing that really jumped out at me from above, with just my take added:

"Tell me how the heck it is a connection to God if we don't care if a sponsee stays sober or not? True it's not up to us if a sponsee stays sober or not. But I sure as hell *care* about another human being if they stay sober or not because I know what'll likely happen if a real alcoholic doesn't stay sober."

THIS IS HARD! But....I had to settle on the fact I can never control anyone else. It's hard enough to keep myself spiritually fit. "Caring" is mixed in with what my husband and I coined being a "plixer" - please + fixer. I just read the Daily Reflection today, re not thinking being a pleaser was a bad thing, at first.

To me, it's not cold to accept someone going back out and I have found great benefit from meetings about sponsorship, willingness, acceptance, etc- which all tie into each of our paths of recovery. Like the example you are responding to here was shared, I have a firm line that I work to maintain that my sobriety comes first, I absolutely need a sponsor in order to sponsor (beyond needing one for me) and my best service to another might have to be at a distance.

Distance is a concept I've heard you share struggling with, along your way. I know you have had some really tough- and quite different than me- experiences in AA. I'm proud of how you work through it and glad you share.

Letting stuff and people and situations "go" is something I am working on quite specifically right now. I've got to keep returning to the "when I am disturbed about some person, place or situation..." - what is it about me, not them or it, that is the problem?

Take care. Lastly, perhaps consider your continuing need for a sponsor? I'd make that same suggestion to my sponsor if she didn't have one; it's actually one of the reasons I chose to move on from my exemplary second sponsor (with whom I worked 4-12 and spent 2 plus years with) to my current one. Her program and choices just don't fit with me now, in either direction as far as what I can do for her - or v versa. I've yet to have a sponsee (formal, as in AA, or not, as far as the non-AA/NA recovery group I lead) stay sober permanently, at least as far as I know.

I know what will happen to them, in some fashion, if they keep drinking - and pray in a compartmentalized way, if you will, that they each find recovery indeed. All from a distance, unless or until they were to reach back out to me.

Pathwaytofree

Thanks you, AAPJ. This was helpful. I know I have to adjust my expectations. I guess I thought this sponsee was different, because she seemed so much more mature and atypical. She'll likely forget all the help, time, and growth I gave her and instead focus on my one bad day. The way I spoke to her was how my former abusive sponsor spoke to me most of the time. Whatever.

My sponsees taught me a lot of things about how we treat others when we're so blocked from our authentic selves because of "ego" or whatever someone's individual group calls it.

I had another sponsee drop me the minute I had something personal going on in my life when a relative passed away. She had no empathy. I wasn't available for her when she wanted me to be available for her, so she fired me without even saying anything. How quickly she forgot about all the time on the phone I gave her every week to listen to her problems and her life and try to show her how to apply the 12 steps to them.

It was as if she needed me to be this picture-perfect sponsor instead of the reality that no sponsor is perfect, and we are all still human. Just because you have a spiritual awakening doesn't mean everything becomes all perfect. It was like they think you are just their sponsor and nothing else.

I guess my expectations were that people would actually appreciate your helping to take them through the steps, share stuff about your life with them to help them learn how to apply our spiritual program, and show common courtesy if you happen to have a human moment or two. Now I get why some people in my former home group would only talk to the sponsee to give step instructions and nothing else.

Pathwaytofree

Thanks August. I just remembered I used to tell my sponsees "Where there's pain, there's growth". So I know this is just another spiritual growing thing, and I'm grateful for that. I will learn from this. And I will lower my expectations.

This is so interesting. I wasn't aware I was doing this. I do need to see that I handled the situation well. It was she who is not responding in a spiritual manner via steps 10, 11, 12. I admitted my mistake immediately and made amends.

I think sponsors do get that it's not up to us whether our sponsee gets through the steps and has a spiritual awakening. I often tell them the second I sense they're putting me on a pedestal or something, that I have nothing to do with it. That's my role is just to instruct them through the steps the way they were instructed to me, and to put their hands into God's hands.

LOL "plixer"! That's great.

You word this so well and make a lot of sense.
Thanks August. That means a lot coming from you. I've always been so impressed with how far along you are spiritually so early on. SR is lucky to have you here.

I definitely need to work on this. My OCD brain just keeps me replaying stuff. I've got to turn to the spiritual solution to let it go.

I will reach out to the new one I had. She was a good sponsor but I just sort of drifted away.

That is a very kind thing to do. I will add my sponsee to my prayers that she continue on her step work and continue to stay sober. I have a strong feeling that she will, and I will focus on that.

Thank you so much August.

August252015

You're welcome Path, and thanks for the props

I will share something specific here, which I have to keep finding humor in....my head goes around in tail chasing circles about my husband's ex wife. I could go on about the "whys" and dude, don't get me started on her bf who *might* have overlapped with the marriage...and the reality that my step-daughter is going thru a lot of resentment and anger toward ME (the unicorn of a loving, not-evil stepmother of course ), coincidentally starting when she moved from our house to her mom's a year ago...and....SHEESH.

I had this vision of a kickball, one day in yoga. Someone bugging me could have their head popped off an put into a kickball, which just had a leather ring and was otherwise clear. Not being a monster, of course, the head remains undamaged and while there is an anti-rebound feature to my kicking it way into the distance, should it return the head can be reattached as the person subsequently walks away from my head space. Now, I am conditioning myself to yell "KICK!" in my head when the ex wife intrudes. The visual image tickles me and while it is all still bugging me, I do find that she starts bugging me later into the day!

tomsteve

what she said and did isnt a reflection of who you are.
all things happen for a reason. ya mentioned I feel drained and burnt out.
maybe this has been your HP talkin. maybe He saw it and decided to step in to help ya lighten your load.
some of the best lessons ive had are the ones that were the hardest.

now toss out that ass kickin machine,PW.

fini

sometimes, Path, people use deliberately out-there language to shock others into illustrating a point.
in giving the benefit of the doubt, i figure when folks say they don't care if their sponsees stay sober what they mean is what i would call being not invested in their sponsees' result. being not invested as in: having themselves tied into the result.

Ken33xx

If something or someone doesn't feel quite right I find it best to go with my gut instinct.

I may not always be right but to downplay or ignore what I sense I find a mistake.

The OP mentions several instances where the sponsee provided clues they might not be on be on the same page but they weren't picked up on.

Ken33xx

She told me when she was going to be getting her one year coin. I was so excited for her!!!!! I gave her a small sobriety gift that she really appreciated. I wrote her a sincere and genuine card from the heart of how proud I was of her hard work in sobriety. I asked her if she wanted me to introduce her when she accepts her one year coin at her meeting. She got a little uncomfortable, and then told me that "a friend in AA" was going to introduce her--the same friend who gave her her 30-day coin before she and I knew each other.

I thought that was a little odd that she didn't want her sponsor to introduce her, but I wasn't hurt or anything. I let it go. But then I asked her if she wanted me to be there for moral support and to cheer her on? I was more than willing to drive the distance to this meeting, if it would mean to show her my support. She then got uncomfortable and said, "Oh that's okay, I get nervous if there's too many people around that I know. I'm nervous about speaking". Again I thought that was a little odd that she wouldn't want her sponsor there, but I changed the subject

The sponsee not only didn't want the OP to hand her the 1-yr. chip she didn't want her present!

The exchange pretty much says it all.

For whatever the reason the relationship had clearly changed.

Pathwaytofree

I'm no therapist here, but I wonder if your step daughter really prefers you over her mother, feels guilty, and projects that guilt back on to you. Or, her mother might be making up lies about you to stir the pot, and your step daughter is believing them and is caught in the middle.

Pathwaytofree

Thank you, Tomsteve. It was therapeutic for me to write that all here and read everyone's replies. I think I am slowly realizing that this was so not my fault. Any other reasonable person would've said "Woops, caught ya in a bad moment" and let it go. Plus it wasn't even that bad what I said. I was just a bit firm in tone.

You know.....that makes a lot of sense. I thought HP was punishing me, but now I see what you're saying. Maybe HP's got my back, is grateful for my helping one of His children, and is giving me a rest now. That's such a more peaceful way of viewing this. Thank you!

Same here.... I guess that's all part of this journey called life.... I remember my former sponsor teaching me that we keep continuing to make the same mistakes until we learn the lesson. God keeps giving us more opportunities to try again.

BEST reply ever!!!
I did a good job with my sponsee. Were there things I wish I would've done differently? Yes, but don't we all? I know I went above and beyond for her and cared about her sobriety as much as she did. I put a great deal of energy and effort into helping her. I hoped to see her through to Step 9, but God had other plans. I can let it go now. Thank you Tomsteve and everyone else on this thread! You are all awesome.

Pathwaytofree

Fini,
Thanks for your explanation. That definitely makes sense. I hadn't realized that was likely what they were doing.

Give the step instructions and whatever happens is not our achievement or our fault.

Pathwaytofree

Thanks, Ken.

Oh I picked up on them... but I chose to not call her out on them. Lesson learned.