Pathwaytofree

I've experienced exactly how you feel. Until I realized it's not meant to be like a "there, there, you'll have rainbows and bunnies soon." It's meant to basically mean this: stop worrying about it because it's out of your control. It's in God's hands. Let Him take care of it.

Also about God's plan: He's not up there deciding that tomorrow so and so will be struck with cancer, and so and so will be cured of cancer. It doesn't work that way in my opinion. I was taught that cancer isn't from God.

It's not meant to be in a "everything's going to be rosy and peachy". It just sort of means that life goes on. Stuff just sort of falls back into place eventually, given the flow of life. We need to stop fighting that flow of life.

Things happens because of nature, because of humans, and that's just part of the ebbs and flows of life. God's not up there making this stuff happen, but He IS in control if that makes sense. But God gave us free fill. And nature is nature.

There's a quote in a movie that says something like "God didn't promise us a pain free life". But, that He is there to protect us, comfort us, guide us, and love us. I guess it's all just part of being human.

God's plan I'm guessing is for this man to continue to live, until he's no longer alive. To accept his fate but still get up in the morning with purpose. I'm not explaining it right. One of my favorite circuit speakers talks about a man named "AK". This is a general idea of how the story went (paraphrasing). I think this may help you:

(Prefacing this to say that I am not breaking anonymity here because this circuit speaker uses his first and last name, and he publishes his talks on the internet to carry the message.) One day this circuit speaker RS went to an AA meeting with his sponsor and heard an amazing talk. After the meeting, he said he couldn't wait to hear AK talk again. His sponsor said, "You know he's got 6 months to live." RS says, "No, I mean the guy who just spoke." His sponsor said, "Yeah. He's only got 6 months to live. He's got cancer."

RS was dumbstruck. "But he didn't say anything about having cancer." His sponsor says, "Yeah. That's because he's living his purpose. His purpose is to help others. He's not living out of ego, complaining, or looking for pity, etc." From that moment on, RS decided he wanted to be like an AK.

We can chose to accept our fate, continue to seek God's love, guidance, direction, protection, comfort, etc., or we can chose to fight it, be angry, bitter, in self-pity, selfish thinking, etc. Fight or accept. AK made the decision to still get up in the morning, go to an AA meeting, carry the message to still sick and suffering alcoholics, go home, go to sleep, and if his eyes opened the next morning, he'd start his next 24 hours all over again.
God didn't create cancer. Cancer is not of God. God is love. Anything that isn't love is not of God. God doesn't cause suffering and pain. It's not that God's plan is "perfect" in the regard I think you're thinking. It's that He takes the wheel over and controls it. I think it's beyond human understanding.

Recovery doesn't mean life will not have struggles. Praying doesn't make the struggles go away. It just makes it a little bit easier because we're not alone as we continue to jump through the hurdles of life. Recovery doesn't mean we will never get sick, never lose a loved one, never lose a job, or have any sort of problems.

Again, recovery is not about rainbows and bunnies. Life is life. We have to live it as it comes. Just because you pray and do everything you're "supposed" to do, doesn't mean manna is going to fall from heaven. It's just a way to struggle less because we're letting God do His work instead of getting in His way. Let Him figure stuff out. We stay out of the driver's seat. We can't manage our lives, drunk or sober - Step 1. God's a much better manager at our lives than we ever were. That's what this is all about.
A perfect plan does not mean we will not have pain and suffering. No one said we're going to have a happy ending in recovery, but that life will be more manageable when we turn to God.

Al Kennedy still got cancer and died from it. But He had the choice to let God handle it, do God's will during it, or to handle it in the way he would've handled it before AA.

Exactly what is your expectation of recovery?? Never having a bad day sober means we change our perspectives on things. We stop trying to control things. We stay out of our ego and our thinking. That man who said he never had a bad day sober likely means that when life hit him in the face, he practiced acceptance, love, tolerance, and patience. He paused instead of reacting. He turned to God for comfort and guidance. He didn't drink over bad stuff happening.

Never having a bad day sober does not mean bad stuff doesn't continue to happen. It means our thinking and reactions to the "bad stuff" changes.

I remember asking my sponsor this same question, and she said this stuff is not from God but from man or just the environment. To reiterate, anything not of love is not of God. Not everyone is doing God's will on this earth.

Being happy doesn't mean you walk around smiling from ear to ear and say that "everything is wonderful!!!" That's very unrealistic. Being happy means we live in the moment, we have gratitude for what we DO have (e.g. thanking God for the gift of this person in your life for the friend h/she was), we be there for others (e.g. we help the person or friend who has cancer to help them suffer less), and we turn to God for guidance, support, comfort, love, etc.

Life IS unpredictable. One of the most important lessons I've learned in recovery is to go with the ups and downs of life and stop fighting it, trying to change stuff I can't change, or drinking over it. It doesn't mean I shrug my shoulders and say "oh well!" but it does mean I waste a lot less energy and cause a lot less drama over stuff I can't change. It's all about attitude and how I choose to react over things and people.

NYCDoglvr

I'm an agnostic and sober 26 years this month. I ignore facile cliches (you hear a lot of them at AA meetings) and keep my focus on today. Letting go of expectations , learning to stop projecting have been a big help. For me, God = group of drunks which works for prayer. My first sponsor warned "AA isn't a hotbed of mental health" (yea, me included!) and I only trust those who have proven their worth.

I certainly understand resentment and, because it's a painful feeling, ask myself "what's my part in this?" My character defects pop right up and the resentment evaporate.

I don't think it's about "happy". For me peace of mind is the big reward.

LaceyDallas

I don't know. I don't believe that we can just "create" our own HP (this is not to the agnostic but the other poster- I get being agnostic.) To me, there already is one God, and it's the God I've known all my life. The God of the Old Testament, who created fire and plagues and famine and floods, the God who created his son Jesus so he would suffer and die for us all. That's God- that's the way He is. And like the song says, Only God knows why.

So, does God create cancer? In my beliefs, yes. God created the world- good and bad, storms and calm, pain and pleasure. That's where AA goes against my beliefs sometimes. Things are happening for a predetermined reason. This is my friend's path. (Exceptions made for someone who works with asbestos and gets cancer from that, but you get the idea). This is his "cross to bear." In his time of suffering, he can be strong so others can learn from him. But it was sent as a challenge from God. God never promised us life on Earth would be perfect. Hence my issue with someone saying "a perfect plan."

This all came out of me reading the Bible and really feeling and believing in this stuff. If I go in there on Wednesday and they tell me I have cancer, that's my cross to bear. I can be mad, sad, angry, etc. in fact, at one time or another, Jesus himself expressed those emotions in the New Testament.

I just can't turn my back on this HP and choose some new HP like I'm choosing a new phone company or internet provider. This HP is the HP there is, and I need to adjust my thinking to Him, not the other way around. I never agreed with that part of AA. I guess it fits well for someone who has no understanding of a God, but it doesn't work for me.

Pathwaytofree

In AA I was taught to just lay to the side everything I thought I knew about God, with an open mind for a new experience. My experience was that after listing on a piece of paper the characteristics I was taught God had, vs the characteristics I'd want in my own conception of God, things started to rapidly change in my recovery.

Are you saying everyone must agree with your conception of God? Or that you're not willing to be open to thinking of God differently than you were taught in your religion? Remember, 12-step work is not about religion, it is about spirituality.

In Step 2 I was taught the lay aside prayer; to just gently lay to the side everything I was taught about God, everything I thought about God, and to just have an open mind and willingness to see things differently. This was the mustard seed that got me on my way.

Perhaps this is the God of religion. If that's what you choose to still believe going forward in your recovery, that's your decision. If you want to look at God from a solely negative light, and hold on to your old beliefs, that's your decision. I have since seen it all from a different light and a different angle. Your choice. Not all religious people see God this way. Not all spiritual people see God this way. I have heard people say that God created His son Jesus so that He could create himself in human form, so that humans could better understand Him and His message.

No one is telling you what to believe. When I wrote that about cancer, storms, etc I was not speaking for AA! We in AA all have different concepts of God. AA does not tell you what to think or believe about God. It's your own conception. If you want to have a negative conception of God, that's your choice. I just share my experience and having a negative conception of God didn't help my recovery at the time.

Why would cancer from asbestos be any different than the cancer your friend has?

I've never heard the term "perfect plan", although I've heard "plan". I don't think "perfect" means that everything in life is supposed to be wonderful.

It's all in how we choose to react to the crappy stuff that happens in life. But I don't think God's doing it to punish us to because He's cruel. But that's just my opinion. Again you are entirely free in AA to have your own conception of God.

I seriously don't know what to say to this. That's certainly not what I'm trying to get across here.

If you want to hear what I was taught to do, and what I experienced, I will spell it out here:

I came into AA with one conception of God from the religion of my childhood, what I was taught about Him from my parents, etc. It was suggested to me that I put that to the side for now. It was suggested on a piece of paper, I write two columns. In one, I listed all the traits I thought God had. In the second column, I listed all the traits my ideal conception of God would have. This simple task freed me to be on the road to see God in a completely different light. This was Step 2.

It was the foundation I needed to take the remaining steps. This simple task was the mustard seed that completely changed my life. I have experienced God differently, and I see Him differently.

Ten years prior, I was unwilling to even think God had anything to do with my recovery. I was unwilling to read the big book. I was unwilling to see things differently. I went back out, relapsed, and I guess when I returned, I was more willing to have an open mind to what my sponsor was suggesting. When she shared with me how she sees and experiences God now, I was intrigued. I was open to hear more. This was the mustard seed of change that helped me to recover. I'm not recovering, I am recovered. I had a spiritual awakening. That was my experience and that's what I'm sharing here. No one's telling you what to believe.

What you do or think is entirely your decision. AA does not have a monopoly on God. That being said, we recovered members of AA do carry the message by sharing our experience in the hope it'll help others.

ScottFromWI

Folks...lets remember that we are here to support and help each other, not have personal arguments. Keep that to PM if you must please.

Pathwaytofree

LaceyDallas, I think you're misunderstanding some of what the posters have written. In AA, we learn what it means to have a "bad" day. We see that no day is really bad, even if really bad things happen. We're not drinking over the unfortunate events--hence, it's not a bad day.

No one's said that we "should always be happy." Not at all. There's a huge difference between "we should always be happy" e.g. faking it, versus feeling true joy, peace, contentment, and acceptance. I experienced that when I did my step work.

I'm sure most people here could say the same thing. We lived in a facade, pretended we were happy, stuffed or drank our feelings down, numbed out, didn't allow ourselves to feel, etc. In my recovery and in therapy I learned to not fear my feelings, and to feel all of them--the negative ones and the positive ones. I now also have tools of what to do with negative feelings so they don't consume me.

Sobriety is so not about being happy every day. It's about peace, serenity, acceptance, letting go, joy, seeing things from a different perspective, reacting to people and life differently, trusting and relying on God, etc.

Of course there's never any positives about a friend's pending death. I'm sure you will be angry, sad, grieving, depressed but then eventually get to a point of acceptance because there's no other way to be. Your feelings won't change anything.

Acceptance doesn't mean you like it. Neither is that what AA says to do. It means you've accepted the moment for what it is, without fighting it or drinking over it. If you choose to be in a foul mood, that only hurts yourself and hurts those around you. You can't be of service to others and share God's love. If you're in a foul mood, you might be tempted to drink. If you're in a foul mood, you won't be in a frame of mind where you can cry but at the same time remember happy memories about your friend with gratitude that she was in your life.

AA doesn't tell us to avoid our feelings. It's program helps us to not run from them, stuff them down with alcohol, or numb out from them. Also, AA helps us not be ruled by our feelings, either.

That's because we in AA know that anger and resentment lead to drinking. And to drink is to die. Perhaps these people are just trying to help you master your anger and resentments like they were taught to do with their 12 step work.

Absolutely feel your feelings. No one's telling you not to. Every day as part of Step 10 and 11, we have the self awareness of when we feel angry, fearful, resentful, selfish, etc. And we have tools of how to resolve them now. I agree with what Tomsteve wrote about "bad days". We in AA think of it differently than you might be. We have to look at if we are just being "spiritually selfish" and wanting the day to go the way we wanted it to go. We want things to go our way, and yet so much in life is out of our control.

My sponsor was extremely close with her mother. She lost her early on in her sobriety. But since she had developed a God consciousness, she was able to seek God for comfort, guidance, and peace during a difficult time. Was it a "bad day" for her? She'd probably say that obviously she was extremely sad over losing her mother, cried a lot, but she didn't drink over it. And she was grateful that she was able to turn to God for His care and protection.

I hope that helps clarify things for you. I know AA's program can sound confusing. It was for me, until I experienced it. Now in hindsight, I understand it a lot better.

I am sorry about your friend.

LaceyDallas

I don't see a personal argument? I'm genuinely asking this person, who, btw, is writing helpful responses. We think differently, but I'm not arguing, I'm trying to figure out why he/she thinks that way.

Pathwaytofree

I'm glad you didn't think it was a personal argument, either. That confused me. I thought exactly like you did early on. I could've written a similar post years ago. I was desperate when I returned to 12 step meetings, so I was finally willing to be open minded. I was fortunate to have a sponsor who helped me see things in a different light. I'm just trying to carry the message and pass along what she helped me to see and experience. :-)

Ken33xx

There it is.

Ken33xx

Right and it can be unhealthy to pretend otherwise. Emotional sobriety is the ability to balance the ups/downs in life.

Nothing wrong with feeling down or upset. The question is how long will I stew in negative until I take some type of action.

LaceyDallas

]

I'm glad you don't think it's an argument. This has been very helpful.

I guess it wouldn't kill me to see God as merciful at least most of the time.

SoberCAH

I agree with your assessment of there being one God and that He is the God of the Old and New Testaments.

Interestingly, I came to that conclusion after being in AA for a good while and independently pursuing a relationship with God and as much understanding of Him as i could glean through reading the Bible, taking classes at church, going to daily Mass for a long time, etc.

This is what the 11th Step directs us to do.

And i follow the 11th Step admonition to pray for knowledge of his will for us and the power to carry it out.

I think that the notion of finding one's own concept of God is largely for agnostics.

We will all be waiting to hear from you after your doctor visit tomorrow.

We love you and appreciate your open sharing of your thoughts and feelings.

LaceyDallas

Thanks. It's like saying I don't accept Donald Trump (or Obama, or Bush, or whomever) as my President, because I don't agree with how he runs things. So, I'm going to write up my own list of the President I want, and follow that. Donald Trump IS the President- this is a fact. I may agree with everything or nothing the man does, but he is the President. That's how I feel about God. God is God- He is the only one there is. I have to either accept God, or just decide I don't want to believe in it at all.

I will be very happy when tomorrow is over. Found out some good news about the house today, so there's that.

LaceyDallas

Good for that guy, but in all sincerity- today is a bad day. I'm glad I'm sober, I don't think a drink will fix it, I'm better off than a lot of people- but today is a bad day. There's no two ways around it.

Ken33xx

Of course. We all have bad days or go into a funk. It is what makes us human. Anyone who says different is either lying or delusional.

The question for me is how I handle such emotions.

fini

don't see how you can compare God/ god to a human being.
as far as knowing or accepting " who" god is, we simply do not know.

as far as bad days, oh yes, there are bad days. had a few last week. especially monday, when i phoned the vet to make the appointment to have my beloved dog euthanized. tuesday was pretty bad also, as that was the day we actually walked into the vet clinic, and then i stumbled out alone. wednesday....no picnic.
none of those days relate to drinking, nor did it ever okay to me to do it,or think about it.
but yes, thoroughly bad days.

LaceyDallas

I feel like no matter what I write someone will have a problem with it.

There is one President. There is one God. It's simply a fact- when someone says who is the President, the answer is Donald Trump. When Someone says who is God, to me, there is one answer. I can't create my own. I have to go with the existing one.

tomsteve

its gonna happen.

people can have a problem with my preferring pancakes with bacon over sausage.

LaceyDallas

I feel like people are just splitting hairs at this point.

Went to the doctor. No ultrasound today. I know absolutely nothing more right now than I did yesterday at this time, but I do like the doctor. Smoke and dye test on the house tomorrow morning.

Reprieve

Lacey,

Sorry to hear about your friend and your own pending diagnosis. I agree with alot of what you have said about the seemingly hypocritical nature of some people in the meetings. That's just people - as Redmayne pointed out with his/her excellent classical quotes. These irritations and frustrations have been going on since forever.

I was taught early in recovery to accept my feelings and let them wash over me. Don't resist them, because what we resist will persist. Just be your true and authentic self, be your best self and the rest will sort itself out. Yes, maybe the other people in the group can't handle the emotional depth of your friend's death - that definitely happens in aa. Just because people stop drinking doesn't mean they miraculously become capable of deep emotional connection and honesty. Emotional intimacy takes work and alot of people don't want to to do it. That's why these common platitudes and overwhelming quotes from the big book are so heavily used, many people rely on the well worn path of often quoted thoughts rather than stop and create their own.

What can you do - just accept them as they are and be the best that you can be. I like to feel the a higher power does sort it all out in the end anyway, and that is where I just turn it over and let it go.