tomsteve

justa thought off the top of my head ive been ponderin this mornin(is ponderin outdated??? ). ive read and heard people say the big book is outdated, but why? what is it that would have people say its outdated?
other than just the simple fact that science has proven fact some of the things were just theories back then i just dont get it.

entropy1964

For me its the language and prose. The stories and content are very current. I relate completely. Its also a bit sexist. So a woman reading the book can feel that it doesn't speak to her if she's looking for more balanced information.

Alcohol is now an equal opportunity destroyer....the number of female alcoholics is growing. But I hope they never change the Big Book to reflect this.

aasharon90

Welp my friend, I learned early on,
If it ain't broke, don't fix it, imo, Tom.

I never looked at updating or buying
a newer edition on my Big Book
that was handed to me back in 8-11-90.

I learned from it how to remain sober
by following directions in the book
and applying important lessons in my
everyday affairs and thus have remained
successfully sober with it.

If the same basic techniques was used yrs
before me and passed on to me in a newer
refreshed book just changing a few words,
that definitely didn't change my out look
on the AA recovery program.

I often changed the words in the book,
say if the were talking with the 'he' or
man preference, I just used 'she' instead.
If it works for a man then sure it will
work just as good for a women, teen,
older, younger etc.

Just give me a simple mathematical
problem and i'll learn it and apply it.
Simple with no added additives. No
fluff.

Thank buddy Tom for sharing your
Topic.

Maudcat

The Big Book was published in 1939 and, in my opinion,reflected the social mores of the time. Though it has been revised several times, many groups stick with the original because, I believe, it embodies Bill W.'s and Dr. Bob's voices as they describe what was then a groundbreaking approach to alcohol dependency. The Big Book has helped many, many people stay sober. Personally, I found that it really doesn't speak to the female alcoholic except in the context of "wives to...." , so I found other sources that detailed more knowledgably the female's alcohol dependencies. I think of the Big Book in the same way as I think of the writings of Charles Dickens and William Makepeace Thackeray. Archaic styles, but still worth reading for their inherent truths about humankind. Again, this is my opinion only, and all I have written here is meant respectfully.

stevieg46

1939 Language of the times, still relevant in 2016 . same directions

Romeo Romeo wherefore art thou Romeo , long time before 1939

Maudcat

Yep.

Coldfusion

Have you ever read any NA literature? It is updated and less sexist.

mfanch

Why it is relevant as it ever was:

1. Alcohol hasn't changed.
2. Alcoholics haven't changed.
3. Human nature hasn't changed.

When I first came in and was arguing semantics, I used to quip, "It was written by a white, Christian guy in the 1930's, blah blah." I didn't even relate to Bill's story. I was told to keep coming back. I reread Bill's story a short time after finishing the steps and was agog, agog I tell you, about how Bill and I were exactly alike!! Go figure.

I also have a copy of the EZ Big Book (a "translation for 21st century readers", by Anon.). The message is there, but the beauty and depth are missing. Just thought I would mention that.

Great topic!

NoelleR

I never had a problem with the BB. I just figured it was because I was old, out-dated, and archaic.

(o:

Tommyh

I found a old,outdated dictionary to study that old outdated big book with
So,I havea matching set,now I am old,almost grey haired and outdated but I am happily sober

SoberCAH

I love the BB and its message and program of sobriety.

Sure, the language and perspectives are reflective of the social norms of the time, as are most things written during or before that era in history.

But I still read history and literature written way before my coming onto the planet in 1957.

stevieg46

Do you mean ''sexist ''in the Chapter to Wives Coldfusion ? .

Stevie recovered 12 03 2006

tomsteve

i hear ya!!! but i had to get a dictionary to become archiac.
i was really amazed and ran out and got me a shiney new dictionary. couldnt find the definition of one word in it.
pulled out my "archiac" 1953 websters scholastic dictionary and learned!
it was quite humbling to admit i wasnt as smart as i thought.

tomsteve

i dont get the sexist thing:

But what we have said applies quite as much to women. Our activities in behalf of women who drink are on the increase. There is every evidence that women regain their health as readily as men if they try our suggestions.

..On one proposition, however, these men and women are strikingly agreed. Every one of them has gained access to, and believes in, a Power greater than himself. This Power has in each case accomplished the miraculous, the humanly impossible. As a celebrated American statesman put it, "Let's look at the record." Here are thousands of men and women, worldly indeed

How Many Thousands of Men and Women Have Recovered from Alcoholism

We, OF Alcoholics Anonymous, are more than one hundred men and women who have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body.

Men and women drink essentially because they like the effect produced by alcohol.

We, of ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, know thousands of men and women who were once just as hopeless as Bill.

We alcoholics are men and women who have lost the ability to control our drinking.

usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves.

This is particularly true of women. Potential female alcoholics often turn into the real thing and are gone beyond recall in a few years.

Seeing much of each other, scarce an evening passed that someone's home did not shelter a little gathering of men and women, happy in their release, and constantly thinking how they might present their discovery to some newcomer.

Our hope is that many alcoholic men and women, desperately in need, will see these pages, and we believe that it is only by fully disclosing ourselves....

then all the times the bb uses "WE"

stevieg46

1939 Doctors, Psychiatry , Medicine had more or less no success in dealing with alcoholics and recovery from alcoholism . Big Book hits the streets .


2016 more or less the same scenario except sedation or withdrawals .

2016 Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous has probably helped millions of alcoholics , helped millions and millions of family members of alcoholics all simply through Hope , Understanding, and a Solution > probably saved the State , and various Government's many $ Trillions of dollars throughout the world , yeah definitely out of date , needs improving . not good enough !!!! .

Stevie recovered 12 03 2006

Soberpotamus

With all due respect, Tomsteve, it is understandable that you wouldn't. I doubt many white males would get it right away. I'm assuming you're a white male. I could be wrong. White male = majority. It was written with you in mind, and written by other white males.

This is not a criticism. Simply fact.

Not knocking the Big Book at all in saying this. Just stating facts that some women will find hard to navigate.

With that said, I have come across some excellent workarounds, written by women for women. (A Woman's Way through the Twelve Steps by Stephanie Covington was an excellent conjunctive.)

tomsteve

can you show me evidence of your fact? because as I see it, that's just a theory.
but

ive only been to a few hundred meetings and read the big book about 300 times in the last 11 years+

Soberpotamus

Sure, it's evidenced throughout the book itself. I've read it a few times through myself. Meetings have nothing to do with it.

Lots, if not most, works of literature until the 60s-70s were written from a male perspective.

MIRecovery

I believe there is a decidedly male slant to the BB but 1939 the world had a decidedly male slant. Whenever we read any thing from the past we have to understand the authors frame of reference and the social norms of the time.

mfanch

I personally don't find the big book to be sexist. To me, sexism is prejudice/gender discrimination. I don't see that in the BB. I tried to use other "women-centric" step work books per some of the groups I was in, but found them wanting. I try to be open-minded and such, but find that the Big Book does just fine. :-)