To Ban or Not Ban, That is the Question
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: my room in ct.
Posts: 58,110
To Ban or Not Ban, That is the Question
my homegroup can use some help
a member of the fellowship, though not a formal member of our homegroup has been causing trouble for far too long
it has spread around town, and people are not coming to our meetings because of it
this fellow has disturbed, threatened, undermined, and disrupted meetings for too long
both my homegroup and in my sponsors home group
last straw was when he shoved & pushed to the ground a 70 year old women
yes, the women did own her stuff for being in this guys face to try to break up a verbal assault on another group member
we took a vote to not have him come to the group
now some others that weren't in on the vote are saying, we cant do that
i know the traditions very well, and as i understand, yes we can
for sure i can also be incorrect
were looking for some other views worldwide on this matter
i'm going to call G.S.O. New York City when they open
whats your thoughts on this matter
a member of the fellowship, though not a formal member of our homegroup has been causing trouble for far too long
it has spread around town, and people are not coming to our meetings because of it
this fellow has disturbed, threatened, undermined, and disrupted meetings for too long
both my homegroup and in my sponsors home group
last straw was when he shoved & pushed to the ground a 70 year old women
yes, the women did own her stuff for being in this guys face to try to break up a verbal assault on another group member
we took a vote to not have him come to the group
now some others that weren't in on the vote are saying, we cant do that
i know the traditions very well, and as i understand, yes we can
for sure i can also be incorrect
were looking for some other views worldwide on this matter
i'm going to call G.S.O. New York City when they open
whats your thoughts on this matter
It`s ok to stay sober
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central NC
Posts: 20,906
Rusty,your group did the right thing.
Yes ,you can ban a person from your group but we can`t kick someone out of AA as a whole.
I talked to AAWS a few years back concerning a similer problem and those troublemakers try to hide behind the 3rd tradition,it`s their only defense.
Actually it is the groups responsibility to do it and keep the meetings safe for all who want help.
around here,if you threaten someone it is a criminal offense.It looks like he has broken many criminal laws at those meetings.
Someone may have to get a restraining order before it is over.If you have too,do it
Yes ,you can ban a person from your group but we can`t kick someone out of AA as a whole.
I talked to AAWS a few years back concerning a similer problem and those troublemakers try to hide behind the 3rd tradition,it`s their only defense.
Actually it is the groups responsibility to do it and keep the meetings safe for all who want help.
around here,if you threaten someone it is a criminal offense.It looks like he has broken many criminal laws at those meetings.
Someone may have to get a restraining order before it is over.If you have too,do it
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,781
I feel the same, once you lay a hand on someone that changes everything! Especially a woman, even more so a senior women!
We had a young man show up at our club a few months ago with a small puppy that no one had ever seen before, everyone welcomed the kid, a few days later he came back and he was high on something, never sat down, walked around for hours in and out of the meetings, talking on the phone in the middle of meetings and one of the elders said something to the guy and he threatened an older gentleman, not sure what was said but everyone was talking about it. he disappeared and I haven't seen him since.. good ending. we have a lot of homeless in our area, we help many but some are so drugged up and strung out they're unpredictable.. Safety first!
We had a young man show up at our club a few months ago with a small puppy that no one had ever seen before, everyone welcomed the kid, a few days later he came back and he was high on something, never sat down, walked around for hours in and out of the meetings, talking on the phone in the middle of meetings and one of the elders said something to the guy and he threatened an older gentleman, not sure what was said but everyone was talking about it. he disappeared and I haven't seen him since.. good ending. we have a lot of homeless in our area, we help many but some are so drugged up and strung out they're unpredictable.. Safety first!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,293
In my group, anybody that becomes a safety concern is banned from the group. On the board showing various other AA activities, there is a section where restraining orders have been issued to people not allowed in the meetings. They will also ban someone who is caught drinking on the grounds for a certain period of time, then allowed back. John
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: glasgow scotland
Posts: 1,004
Hi Rusty unfortunately some people get away with more in AA than they would in a drinking establishment . Yes they do deserve to be banned as it is ''affecting AA as a whole '' simple as that .
Problems can pop up at times when something like this happens you will always get fors and againsts sometimes it depends on the majority , it does not matter what you do in AA as someone will always disagree with it , not everyone is applying the program as the BB lays out .
Many years ago I was in a city center group and lots of characters would show up , some just looking for a cup of tea or a smoke , smoking was allowed back then at meetings , I remember one time a fairly new guy was handrolling a cigarette and a guy sitting behind him asked him for a smoke and the guy passed his tobacco tin to him he proceeded to take tobacco out of the tin and put it in his shirt pocket then he took more out the tin and handed it to some of his pals , I saw all this and stepped in and got the tobacco back and gave it back to the guy , the guy had been causing trouble on a few occasions so I barred him , some folks were ok with it and some not , some people come to AA as a place of safety where they feel comfortable and responsible group members should abide by that .
Another time, this guy had been in and out for years and always turned up drunk trying to get money of people and was quite disruptive at times , anyway he turned up and I was doing my ''greeter '' and he was roaring drunk and I stopped him and told him he was barred unless he turned up in a reasonable condition plus there were two woman newcomers there for their first meeting , anyhow one or two guys were not to happy with me , I told them about most newcomers being advised to keep sober company and it was a bad day if you cant get ''sober company in a AA meeting '' sometimes you have to call it as you see it , take care .
Regards Stevie recovered 12 03 2006
Problems can pop up at times when something like this happens you will always get fors and againsts sometimes it depends on the majority , it does not matter what you do in AA as someone will always disagree with it , not everyone is applying the program as the BB lays out .
Many years ago I was in a city center group and lots of characters would show up , some just looking for a cup of tea or a smoke , smoking was allowed back then at meetings , I remember one time a fairly new guy was handrolling a cigarette and a guy sitting behind him asked him for a smoke and the guy passed his tobacco tin to him he proceeded to take tobacco out of the tin and put it in his shirt pocket then he took more out the tin and handed it to some of his pals , I saw all this and stepped in and got the tobacco back and gave it back to the guy , the guy had been causing trouble on a few occasions so I barred him , some folks were ok with it and some not , some people come to AA as a place of safety where they feel comfortable and responsible group members should abide by that .
Another time, this guy had been in and out for years and always turned up drunk trying to get money of people and was quite disruptive at times , anyway he turned up and I was doing my ''greeter '' and he was roaring drunk and I stopped him and told him he was barred unless he turned up in a reasonable condition plus there were two woman newcomers there for their first meeting , anyhow one or two guys were not to happy with me , I told them about most newcomers being advised to keep sober company and it was a bad day if you cant get ''sober company in a AA meeting '' sometimes you have to call it as you see it , take care .
Regards Stevie recovered 12 03 2006
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: my room in ct.
Posts: 58,110
thanks for the replys SR family
called NYC GSO today
got what we knew we would get "we dont have an opinion"
on the other hand i got some of the GSO's thoughts,
as this issue has come up many a time over the years at GSO meetings
as tommy mentioned the troublemakers try to hide behind the 3rd tradition
though as i thought, tradition 1 trumps tradition 3
"Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon A.A. unity"
he also said he didn't hear me mention guidlines in our group conscience
meaning, a group can put "No jackass behaviour" in their written group conscience if they have one
trad 2 allows for that
on another note, someone tonight said there's something in the 12 concepts that say otherwise!
way to go bill!
i'll leave that for another time! lol
called NYC GSO today
got what we knew we would get "we dont have an opinion"
on the other hand i got some of the GSO's thoughts,
as this issue has come up many a time over the years at GSO meetings
as tommy mentioned the troublemakers try to hide behind the 3rd tradition
though as i thought, tradition 1 trumps tradition 3
"Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon A.A. unity"
he also said he didn't hear me mention guidlines in our group conscience
meaning, a group can put "No jackass behaviour" in their written group conscience if they have one
trad 2 allows for that
on another note, someone tonight said there's something in the 12 concepts that say otherwise!
way to go bill!
i'll leave that for another time! lol
p***enger
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 19,118
Hey Rusty! In most NYC groups I've been to, there's something in the announcement of the group conscience at the beginning that says disruptive behavior will not be tolerated and a disruptive person will be asked to leave. In my home group we have a process for banning a member for a certain duration. I don't think I've ever seen a permanent ban.
If someone had been at my home group and shoved a woman to the ground, he would have been escorted away by some of our larger members. Resistance to that & we call the cops.
Here's the conscience-enforcer at Alanon House on W. 42nd:
If someone had been at my home group and shoved a woman to the ground, he would have been escorted away by some of our larger members. Resistance to that & we call the cops.
Here's the conscience-enforcer at Alanon House on W. 42nd:
Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 138
Think Bill said in the concepts we don't put up with tyrannies, in the majority or the minority. And carefully guard and protect minority opinion and therefore the spirit of democracy. And hear out grievances. Stuff like that, damn good reading. Head in cloud, feet on ground.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
our common welfare should come first.
why should aa allow unacceptable, childish behavior at meetings?
seems people that would say that behavior should be allowed have some issues the steps would help with.
maybe some codie tendencies.
why should aa allow unacceptable, childish behavior at meetings?
seems people that would say that behavior should be allowed have some issues the steps would help with.
maybe some codie tendencies.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,775
I've been going to meeting for well over 20 years and it's rare but it does happen: A member with a nasty temper becomes aggressive in a meeting.
If there are enough fellows in the room to escort the disruptor out that's great. Unfortunately, this isn't always the case. And I'm not getting into a fistfight in an attempt to shut down some nut case.
Maybe three years into my sobriety I was in a meeting when one member kicked another. He tried to have a go with me but I left and returned with the police. This got the guy even more upset and he threated to get even the next time he saw me as he was escorted out.
Needless to say I stayed away that meeting. Not sure what happened but I never saw him again after that night. The guy was bad news. Couldn't get sober and would come to meeting simply to bitch about AA (and other members) for his drinking.
If there are enough fellows in the room to escort the disruptor out that's great. Unfortunately, this isn't always the case. And I'm not getting into a fistfight in an attempt to shut down some nut case.
Maybe three years into my sobriety I was in a meeting when one member kicked another. He tried to have a go with me but I left and returned with the police. This got the guy even more upset and he threated to get even the next time he saw me as he was escorted out.
Needless to say I stayed away that meeting. Not sure what happened but I never saw him again after that night. The guy was bad news. Couldn't get sober and would come to meeting simply to bitch about AA (and other members) for his drinking.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,781
There's a great book about the history of the traditions called, "the language of the heart".. it's a great read.. Here's the 3rd tradition long form, fyi..
Our membership ought to include all who suffer from alcoholism. Hence we may refuse none who wish to recover. Nor ought A.A. membership ever depend upon money or conformity. Any two or three alcoholics gathered together for sobriety may call themselves an A.A. group, provided that, as a group, they have no other affiliation.
Our membership ought to include all who suffer from alcoholism. Hence we may refuse none who wish to recover. Nor ought A.A. membership ever depend upon money or conformity. Any two or three alcoholics gathered together for sobriety may call themselves an A.A. group, provided that, as a group, they have no other affiliation.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,126
Remember, Dave, that Third Tradition is referring to membership in AA; it has nothing to do with banning, or not banning, a person from certain meetings or groups; there's no rule disallowing that; I've seen it done a number of times throughout my recovery.
(o:
(o:
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,781
Agreed Noelle, you can be banned from a group but your membership can never be revoked if you say you are a member..
I've been attending a speaker meeting and the gentleman is going through all the traditions in 5-6 weeks.. Really love The history of AA..
I've been attending a speaker meeting and the gentleman is going through all the traditions in 5-6 weeks.. Really love The history of AA..
Do your best
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 67,046
This story reminds me of something similar that happened when I was attending AA
Basically this guy was really intense slamming tables shouting at a few different meetings and I noticed some people stopped attending because of fear of this person
The last straw was when he got physical at a meeting nothing crazy but it left the person shaken up shaking etc il be honest I said to my sponsor il happily help intervene but my sponser & somebody else escorted him out & told him to cut the ****
I personally think any man who knocks a 70 year old woman to the ground or hit any woman for that matter is a coward and I hope you have seen the last of him Rusty
Basically this guy was really intense slamming tables shouting at a few different meetings and I noticed some people stopped attending because of fear of this person
The last straw was when he got physical at a meeting nothing crazy but it left the person shaken up shaking etc il be honest I said to my sponsor il happily help intervene but my sponser & somebody else escorted him out & told him to cut the ****
I personally think any man who knocks a 70 year old woman to the ground or hit any woman for that matter is a coward and I hope you have seen the last of him Rusty
Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: milwaukee wi
Posts: 3,574
not sure if this would work.. but could Robert's Rules of Order have a point in the meetings... its one thing to come and have your say.. help others ..or just help yourself.. its another to make the private area nasty and not working for the good of the group.. but then to push put hands on a smaller person an older person Man or Woman that is trying to stop a mishap.. No kids this is not a good point of a meeting. and then people don't come back and the ones left are not there for the good of the group they just are the ones that have run everyone else off.. me ... a broom is my method of clean up all the time.. prayers and hopes for a better tomorrow ardy
It`s ok to stay sober
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central NC
Posts: 20,906
AA is the only place I have seen where trouble and controversy can help us out.When they happen,usually we hit those Traditions,Concepts,sponsors,AA friends and phone lines to AAWS and seek the answer and in the end the group is wiser
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
