Loss of Control
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by SoberJennie 
Please do post, Boleo. There's no time like the present 
- never stepping on other peoples part or our HP's role. However, I don't believe the 12 steps are the only "way" to live a natural, non-assertive or non-judgmental lifestyle. IMO what the 12 steps are, in fact, is the reinvention of the ancient art of "Wu Wei" found within Taoism:
The Tao, in the broadest sense, is the “way” the universe functions, or the “path” taken by natural events. Tao is the first-cause of the universe as opposed to the creator of it. It is characterized by spontaneous creativity and by repetitious cyclical alternations of phenomena (such as day following night) that proceed without effort. Effortless action (wu wei) may be illustrated by the conduct of water, which unresistingly accepts the lowest level and yet wears away the hardest substance. As the Tao operates without prejudice in the universe, so should mankind disavow assertive, biased or purposive action. The Taoist life is not, however, a life of total inactivity. It is rather a life of unbiased action (wu-wei).
Much of the essence of Tao is in the art of “wu wei” (action through inaction). Non-forceful, going with the grain or flexing with the wind. This does not mean, "sit on your ass and wait for everything to fall into your lap." What it really means is a practice of minimal harmonious action. It is the practice of going against the stream not by struggling but by standing still and letting the stream carry you forward. Water nourishes everything yet strives at nothing.
Taoism is based on the recognition that the reality as perceived is included within but not comprehensive of the Tao (a tree is not made of wood, a tree is wood). So long as there is a notion of ourselves as something different from the Tao, all kinds of tensions build up between “self” on the one hand and real world “experiences” on the other. Cultures which limit the definition of self to the facility of consciousness, attribute unconscious workings to an external God. To label the Tao as an unconscious energy is as much off the point as to conceive of it as a personal ruler, such as God. Tao often goes unnoticed because the true Tao wishes to remain anonymous.
Stated positively: Tao is a life expressing the "self-so" (essence of spontaneity). This allows self to manifest the simple, reduce selfishness and have few desires. Each believer's goal is to become one with the Tao. In realizing that you are one with the Tao, you automatically “manifest” the power of Tao. However, power, as with grace, is something which no one individual should lay claim to. The power lies outside the individual.
Tao people never try, they “do”. To “do” means to provide the action and let the Tao provide the results. Tao people are detached from judgment and do not waste time on self-criticism. Tao people never struggle to be great, which is how true greatness is achieved.
Just as superior Taoists do not aim at the Tao, superior virtue is not aimed at virtue. Superior virtue is not intentional virtue, intentional virtue is considered to be inferior virtue. Superior virtue uses no force yet leaves nothing left undone. Inferior virtue struggles by using force but leaves much left undone. When good deeds are accomplished, we should not claim or point to them (humility). Those who know they do not know are on the quickest road to wisdom.
Taoists believe that "people are compassionate by nature...left to their own devices they will show this compassion without expecting a reward." A Taoist is kind to other individuals; largely because such an action tends to be reciprocated (what goes around comes around).
The ancient Taoists understood the “secret of art” and “the art of living”. Living with Tao is like working with wood; one must never go against the grain. To be skillful and creative, they had to have inner spiritual concentration and put aside concern with external values, such as monetary rewards, fame, and praise. The “Three Jewel Virtues” to be sought are compassion, moderation and humility. Art, like life, followed the creative path of nature, not the values of human society.
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
Originally Posted by Boleo
Since you asked... I am one of those bar-stool philosophers who believe we only have the illusion of self-will or self-control. Yeah, we sometimes get what we want with diligence, tenacity and assertiveness, but we just as often chase prosperity away with too much assertiveness. What the 12 steps are IMNSHO is a natural/non-assertive way of life. One where we simply do our part in the grand scheme of things. Doing "ONLY OUR PART"
- never stepping on other peoples part or our HP's role. However, I don't believe the 12 steps are the only "way" to live a natural, non-assertive or non-judgmental lifestyle. [/SIZE][/I]
- never stepping on other peoples part or our HP's role. However, I don't believe the 12 steps are the only "way" to live a natural, non-assertive or non-judgmental lifestyle. [/SIZE][/I]
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
Originally Posted by Boleo
The Tao, in the broadest sense, is the “way” the universe functions, or the “path” taken by natural events. Tao is the first-cause of the universe as opposed to the creator of it. It is characterized by spontaneous creativity and by repetitious cyclical alternations of phenomena (such as day following night) that proceed without effort. Effortless action (wu wei) may be illustrated by the conduct of water, which unresistingly accepts the lowest level and yet wears away the hardest substance. As the Tao operates without prejudice in the universe, so should mankind disavow assertive, biased or purposive action. The Taoist life is not, however, a life of total inactivity. It is rather a life of unbiased action (wu-wei).
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
Originally Posted by Boleo
Much of the essence of Tao is in the art of “wu wei” (action through inaction). Non-forceful, going with the grain or flexing with the wind. This does not mean, "sit on your ass and wait for everything to fall into your lap." What it really means is a practice of minimal harmonious action. It is the practice of going against the stream not by struggling but by standing still and letting the stream carry you forward. Water nourishes everything yet strives at nothing.
And I like the idea of this part: "It is the practice of going against the stream not by struggling but by standing still and letting the stream carry you forward."
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
Well... I like some of these Taoist ways, Boleo. And I can also see how following this path would help me prepare for death eventually. By that, I mean it seems I'd go out more peacefully... not kicking and screaming, trying to hold onto things that are tangible.
Will have to revisit this again. Must make dinner now
Will have to revisit this again. Must make dinner now
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by SoberJennie
so should mankind disavow assertive, biased or purposive action
We do our part (the courage to change).
We do only our part (the wisdom to know the difference).
We let other people have the freedom to do their part -within boundaries (the serenity to accept).
We trust our HP (aka whatever runs the Universe) to do it's part.
We detach from the outcome.
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
I guess as far as coming from an unbiased perspective... I guess I see that as nearly impossible. I think we all necessarily are biased, due to our past experience, as well as from functioning within our own mental construct, you know? Changing this perspective... um, I can learn to act from more of a place of neutrality (non-attachment, acting without expectation or attachments to outcomes) maybe, but how can I ever escape from my own mental construct, or brain?
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
A good example of "Wu Wei" is how we are supposed to do 12th step work;
We try to carry a message to other alcoholics.
We wait for them to respond.
We continue to support them if they show promise.
We detach from the outcome if they reject us.
Success or failure is not ours to pocket.
We try to carry a message to other alcoholics.
We wait for them to respond.
We continue to support them if they show promise.
We detach from the outcome if they reject us.
Success or failure is not ours to pocket.
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by SoberJennie
but how can I ever escape from my own mental construct, or brain?
Shoshin
Pu
ZaZen
Nishkam Karma
Holy Indifference
"Practice these principles in all our affairs" (Big Book)
"Hole in the donut" (12&12)
These are all ways of living life without judgement or expectations.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Scandinavia
Posts: 1,344
Congrats on the dog SoberJennie.
I think dogs and horses do tell us whether we are in control and contact with our selves, there is not much bs with those animals.
Beagles have been bread to have a very good nose. If it has a lot of energy it would be good to let it work with that, you can teach it to track people or less ambitious let it sniff up part of its food in the garden.
I think dogs and horses do tell us whether we are in control and contact with our selves, there is not much bs with those animals.
Beagles have been bread to have a very good nose. If it has a lot of energy it would be good to let it work with that, you can teach it to track people or less ambitious let it sniff up part of its food in the garden.
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
Originally Posted by soberhawk
I think dogs and horses do tell us whether we are in control and contact with our selves, there is not much bs with those animals.
Beagles have been bread to have a very good nose. If it has a lot of energy it would be good to let it work with that, you can teach it to track people or less ambitious let it sniff up part of its food in the garden.
She finds any bone nearby. She loves bones. I have to get them away from her. She has already buried her rawhide chew bone in the garden!!! Lol. I saw her do it... I let her out the back door one night, and she stealthily made her way to the garden... I noticed the digging, and realized what she was doing. I haven't let her know I know where the bone is
She got another rawhide chew bone today and she has already hid it under my husband's bedside table... lol. She tried to take it outside but I decided not to let her bury another one just yet. I'm wondering if the rain is going to make them a soggy mess.
I told my husband not to let her know we know about her hiding spots
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
Originally Posted by Boleo
Zen
Shoshin
Pu
ZaZen
Nishkam Karma
Holy Indifference
"Practice these principles in all our affairs" (Big Book)
"Hole in the donut" (12&12)
These are all ways of living life without judgement or expectations.
Shoshin
Pu
ZaZen
Nishkam Karma
Holy Indifference
"Practice these principles in all our affairs" (Big Book)
"Hole in the donut" (12&12)
These are all ways of living life without judgement or expectations.
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 405
Originally Posted by SoberJennie
Finally, I feel it appropriate to post something specifically in the 12-Step forum, because I have a hunch that you all, and the Big Book, might have a thing or two to say about the concept of control Rather, the illusion of control.
Lately, I'm feeling a loss of control... ha! I'll just be blunt. I'm seriously mourning my relatively peaceful existence before bringing a Beagle adolescent into our home. We thought it was a puppy, but turns out it's closer to a year old. I know some of you are shaking your head right about now, saying... jesus, bring us a real problem to solve. Lol. What an easy life. Well, trust me, my life might seem easy from the outside looking in, but it wasn't easy getting to this point.
But this post isn't about my childhood or my past. Not directly, anyway. I am finding myself in near panic throughout the day as I feel pulled in many directions by this new animal... and sometimes literally pulled, lol. This is I think a great example of a situation which calls on the Serenity Prayer for examination... I am going throughout the day evaluating whether I can control this animal and it's behavior or not, just what part of it I can control, and what part I'd better let go and let pan out by itself. If I let go completely, the dog would destroy my home. If I completely shut her out, she'd probably die of a broken heart out in my backyard. I yelled at her today and felt awful. I finally had to spray her with a water bottle in order to get her off my glass paned door which she's been trying to ram in for over a week... lol! It worked like a charm. Relief... after days of worry. She has stayed off the back door most of the day. I rewarded her by letting her back inside part of the day. And I put her out as soon as she became destructive again.
My life had been pretty predictable with four cats and a husband who had a set work schedule for the most part. I was free to surf the net, clean the house, shop, and write as I needed... the dog has been like having a toddler around.
So I guess I'm posting because I am finding myself stressed so much. I am having very negative self-defeating thoughts, depressed thoughts, anxious thoughts, paranoid thoughts, etc. You get the picture. She has tapped into my neuroses, in short.
I want this to be a success. I want her to stay. And I want to develop the patience to train her so that she is happy and lives to her potential. I definitely don't want to drink over something like this.
Has anyone ever had a pet stir up some pretty heavy thoughts? And bring out your worst? I am trying to figure out why. If this is normal or not. Maybe I'm analyzing it too much but I had better do something to avoid falling into old patterns again. So this is all I know to do.
Input please
Rather, the illusion of control. Lately, I'm feeling a loss of control... ha! I'll just be blunt. I'm seriously mourning my relatively peaceful existence before bringing a Beagle adolescent into our home. We thought it was a puppy, but turns out it's closer to a year old. I know some of you are shaking your head right about now, saying... jesus, bring us a real problem to solve. Lol. What an easy life. Well, trust me, my life might seem easy from the outside looking in, but it wasn't easy getting to this point.
But this post isn't about my childhood or my past. Not directly, anyway. I am finding myself in near panic throughout the day as I feel pulled in many directions by this new animal... and sometimes literally pulled, lol. This is I think a great example of a situation which calls on the Serenity Prayer for examination... I am going throughout the day evaluating whether I can control this animal and it's behavior or not, just what part of it I can control, and what part I'd better let go and let pan out by itself. If I let go completely, the dog would destroy my home. If I completely shut her out, she'd probably die of a broken heart out in my backyard. I yelled at her today and felt awful. I finally had to spray her with a water bottle in order to get her off my glass paned door which she's been trying to ram in for over a week... lol! It worked like a charm. Relief... after days of worry. She has stayed off the back door most of the day. I rewarded her by letting her back inside part of the day. And I put her out as soon as she became destructive again.
My life had been pretty predictable with four cats and a husband who had a set work schedule for the most part. I was free to surf the net, clean the house, shop, and write as I needed... the dog has been like having a toddler around.
So I guess I'm posting because I am finding myself stressed so much. I am having very negative self-defeating thoughts, depressed thoughts, anxious thoughts, paranoid thoughts, etc. You get the picture. She has tapped into my neuroses, in short.
I want this to be a success. I want her to stay. And I want to develop the patience to train her so that she is happy and lives to her potential. I definitely don't want to drink over something like this.
Has anyone ever had a pet stir up some pretty heavy thoughts? And bring out your worst? I am trying to figure out why. If this is normal or not. Maybe I'm analyzing it too much but I had better do something to avoid falling into old patterns again. So this is all I know to do.
Input please
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
An observation today: The dog lives in the present
This is great for me because it is forcing me to live more in the present. I've been trying to be more "mindful"... I can see now there is no "try" there is only "do" when it comes to living mindfully. No planning to do, no regretting to do. There is this moment, and I either do now or I don't.
This is great for me because it is forcing me to live more in the present. I've been trying to be more "mindful"... I can see now there is no "try" there is only "do" when it comes to living mindfully. No planning to do, no regretting to do. There is this moment, and I either do now or I don't.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
Originally Posted by SoberJennie
An observation today: The dog lives in the present
This is great for me because it is forcing me to live more in the present. I've been trying to be more "mindful"... I can see now there is no "try" there is only "do" when it comes to living mindfully. No planning to do, no regretting to do. There is this moment, and I either do now or I don't.
This is great for me because it is forcing me to live more in the present. I've been trying to be more "mindful"... I can see now there is no "try" there is only "do" when it comes to living mindfully. No planning to do, no regretting to do. There is this moment, and I either do now or I don't.
Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: brooklyn, new york
Posts: 1,639
i was going to post
"go to a meeting and share about it"
but
google
"beagle dog training tips"
and
wala
Beagle Characteristics
Beagles are brave, intelligent, and social dogs that are good with children and known for their loving, tolerant, sweet, and gentle temperament. The breed does well indoors and as an apartment dog as long as they are properly exercised and taken for long walks daily. As Beagles were traditionally bred for hunting purposes, they need to be socialized from an early age, especially if their household includes non-canine pets. Also, Beagle owners are advised to keep their pets on a leash during walks to prevent them from running off and trailing scents or chasing game. Beagles can be stubborn and respond well to positive reinforcement. Like many breeds, they do best under the guidance of a strong pack leader. Practicing calm assertive leadership will help your Beagle to integrate into your lifestyle and will prevent behavioral issues from developing. Potential Beagle owners should also be aware that the breed exhibits a loud bay/cry/howl/bark, which may not always be appreciated by neighbors
Read more: http://www.cesarsway.com/dog-care/do...#ixzz3AUyNjXhm
"go to a meeting and share about it"
but
"beagle dog training tips"
and
wala
Beagle Characteristics
Beagles are brave, intelligent, and social dogs that are good with children and known for their loving, tolerant, sweet, and gentle temperament. The breed does well indoors and as an apartment dog as long as they are properly exercised and taken for long walks daily. As Beagles were traditionally bred for hunting purposes, they need to be socialized from an early age, especially if their household includes non-canine pets. Also, Beagle owners are advised to keep their pets on a leash during walks to prevent them from running off and trailing scents or chasing game. Beagles can be stubborn and respond well to positive reinforcement. Like many breeds, they do best under the guidance of a strong pack leader. Practicing calm assertive leadership will help your Beagle to integrate into your lifestyle and will prevent behavioral issues from developing. Potential Beagle owners should also be aware that the breed exhibits a loud bay/cry/howl/bark, which may not always be appreciated by neighbors
Read more: http://www.cesarsway.com/dog-care/do...#ixzz3AUyNjXhm
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
She has finally caught onto "fetch" and now brings her toy back to me every time I throw it! I was able to get her to sit today during fetch... while I held her favorite toy. So this is really an improvement. She finally understands "sit" in many contexts, not just in the kitchen waiting on her turkey/chicken jerky, lol.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
