When prayer isn't helping
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South East England
Posts: 8,009
When prayer isn't helping
I'm not sure where to post this, but you guys have always helped me with so many of my struggles.
I'm doing well in sobriety, following the program and working the steps has brought peace and happiness into my life. I'm full of gratitude for the things I've been blessed with.
My problem is this..my Dad is seriously ill. He has reached out to me and I know he wants to try and salvage something from our relationship while he still can. He is an alcoholic, although he has recently told me he's stopped drinking I'm doubtful whether that's true. In the past he has been violent and abusive and caused long term emotional damage to me and my siblings, the legacy of which remains with me to this day. My alcoholic and drug addict brother still lives at home and the place is an unhealthy mess of addiction and codependency.
When I became sober, I took a huge step away from everything to do with my family. I needed to detach and put my own sobriety first. Their dependence on me which was once a big pull and drain on me, has lessened to the point of not being a stress to me at all now.
But now? I am at a loss as what to do. I pray every day and wait for guidance, but time is not on my side here. I saw him last weekend and we talked but I feel so emotionally detached now it is difficult to build a positive relationship. I guess in my heart I can forgive him for the past now, I can go through the motions of caring for him, but there is guilt that I'm not the daughter he needs and he will see through my act. I'm also a little bit scared that I will develop or reawaken feelings for him that will not be positive given his prognosis. So it seems, I run a risk of being hurt if I get involved, but also a serious risk of having to live with guilt and shame forever if I don't.
My choice I know, but I don't really want to make it, and it seems God is leaving me to it.
I'm doing well in sobriety, following the program and working the steps has brought peace and happiness into my life. I'm full of gratitude for the things I've been blessed with.
My problem is this..my Dad is seriously ill. He has reached out to me and I know he wants to try and salvage something from our relationship while he still can. He is an alcoholic, although he has recently told me he's stopped drinking I'm doubtful whether that's true. In the past he has been violent and abusive and caused long term emotional damage to me and my siblings, the legacy of which remains with me to this day. My alcoholic and drug addict brother still lives at home and the place is an unhealthy mess of addiction and codependency.
When I became sober, I took a huge step away from everything to do with my family. I needed to detach and put my own sobriety first. Their dependence on me which was once a big pull and drain on me, has lessened to the point of not being a stress to me at all now.
But now? I am at a loss as what to do. I pray every day and wait for guidance, but time is not on my side here. I saw him last weekend and we talked but I feel so emotionally detached now it is difficult to build a positive relationship. I guess in my heart I can forgive him for the past now, I can go through the motions of caring for him, but there is guilt that I'm not the daughter he needs and he will see through my act. I'm also a little bit scared that I will develop or reawaken feelings for him that will not be positive given his prognosis. So it seems, I run a risk of being hurt if I get involved, but also a serious risk of having to live with guilt and shame forever if I don't.
My choice I know, but I don't really want to make it, and it seems God is leaving me to it.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,649
Yep, sometimes God'll do that 
I don't know what the AA line and this may be unpopular but the Dee line is I don't owe my parents anything. Not anymore.
I don't think you owe your Dad anything either.
You can forgive someone - and still keep them at arms length.
D
I don't know what the AA line and this may be unpopular but the Dee line is I don't owe my parents anything. Not anymore.
I don't think you owe your Dad anything either.
You can forgive someone - and still keep them at arms length.
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South East England
Posts: 8,009
Thankyou Dee. Detaching wasn't easy...building new adult relationships with my brothers and sister is ongoing and important to me.
I want to do the 'right' thing here. I guess the right thing is just not easy to see. I don't feel my sobriety is at any risk here. I know I'm stronger than I was in the beginning and am not going to be dragged backwards into drinking again.
I just wish things could be different, like some Hollywood movie ending I guess where all family issues get resolved on someone's deathbed. The reality is brutal and hard to deal with. To let go and walk away.
And where is God when I need him anyway?
I want to do the 'right' thing here. I guess the right thing is just not easy to see. I don't feel my sobriety is at any risk here. I know I'm stronger than I was in the beginning and am not going to be dragged backwards into drinking again.
I just wish things could be different, like some Hollywood movie ending I guess where all family issues get resolved on someone's deathbed. The reality is brutal and hard to deal with. To let go and walk away.
And where is God when I need him anyway?
Life Health Prosperity
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Louisana
Posts: 6,752
Hey Jeni, my father was an alcoholic and I hated him for many years after is death. All I did was waste my time by hating him. I'm not suggesting that you hate him for the violence and abuse, but I am suggesting that you do what is lest painful for you. Every person has to earn respect from another person no matter if he is your father, mother, boss, whatever. Parents can be just as mean and manipulating as anybody else. Also get rid of the guilt and shame. If you believe going back around him would cause you hurt and pain then don't do it. Perhaps try talking to him on the phone first. I pray for both of you and hope for the best. 
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Melbourne Australia.
Posts: 3,753
Sometimes we get in a sort of bind re caring for someone and expressing an emotion we don't really feel.......a sort of co-dependency.
Essentially if we don't care for ourselves adequately we aren't too useful to others.
When my mother died at 94 I felt love and sadness but could not honestly express the intense grieving and emotion some people seem to display, to feign such would have been hypocrisy.
Essentially if we don't care for ourselves adequately we aren't too useful to others.
When my mother died at 94 I felt love and sadness but could not honestly express the intense grieving and emotion some people seem to display, to feign such would have been hypocrisy.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South East England
Posts: 8,009
I think it will hurt either way.
I just want to do the right thing. I am not the selfish self absorbed drunk that I used to be and I should be able to put someone else's needs before my own now. Shouldn't I?
I just want to do the right thing. I am not the selfish self absorbed drunk that I used to be and I should be able to put someone else's needs before my own now. Shouldn't I?
Recovering
Join Date: May 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,361
Hi Jeni,
I feel your pain, and your heart for a healing and restoration of that relationship on a healthy basis.
I think we are all challenged at times in asking why God is not healing a situation in the time that appears necessary. From a Christian perspective there is one particular story that we are told helps us a little, that of Lazarus and the rich man (Luke 16:19-31). Lazarus leads a pretty tortured life and it is only after his death that he is comforted. It reminds us that we only see half the picture here, but we may have faith that God has much longer than we see in order to bring healing and restoration. I join your prayer that your relationship with your father is healed soon, but if not, try to remember that God has so much longer to work with us.
Here is a short thought from the Jesuit Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, in case it helps any. It talks more of being patient of change within us, but I think it applies equally to allow God to work with others in his own time (which, as Lazarus shows us, may be longer than we ever see in this life). I like how it recognises that we do feel anxiety, suspense and a sense of incompleteness, and rather than saying we shouldn't he simply advises us to accept those feelings as being part of the long term slow work of God.
Above all, trust in the slow work of God. We are quite naturally impatient in everything to reach the end without delay. We should like to skip the intermediate stages. We are impatient of being on the way to something unknown, something new. And yet it is the law of all progress that it is made by passing through some stages of instability— and that it may take a very long time. And so I think it is with you; your ideas mature gradually—let them grow, let them shape themselves, without undue haste. Don’t try to force them on, as though you could be today what time (that is to say, grace and circumstances acting on your own good will) will make of you tomorrow. Only God could say what this new spirit gradually forming within you will be. Give Our Lord the benefit of believing that his hand is leading you, and accept the anxiety of feeling yourself in suspense and incomplete. [Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, SJ]
God bless you Jeni. I am sure that even struggling with the situation is leading you to do what is best, though it may be hard to see that in the tick of it. Don't be hard on yourself - alcohol works its damage over very long periods of time and proper deep healing from those effects is also bound to take time, but that doesn't mean we don't start down that path.
Joining you in prayer.
Michael
I feel your pain, and your heart for a healing and restoration of that relationship on a healthy basis.
I think we are all challenged at times in asking why God is not healing a situation in the time that appears necessary. From a Christian perspective there is one particular story that we are told helps us a little, that of Lazarus and the rich man (Luke 16:19-31). Lazarus leads a pretty tortured life and it is only after his death that he is comforted. It reminds us that we only see half the picture here, but we may have faith that God has much longer than we see in order to bring healing and restoration. I join your prayer that your relationship with your father is healed soon, but if not, try to remember that God has so much longer to work with us.
Here is a short thought from the Jesuit Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, in case it helps any. It talks more of being patient of change within us, but I think it applies equally to allow God to work with others in his own time (which, as Lazarus shows us, may be longer than we ever see in this life). I like how it recognises that we do feel anxiety, suspense and a sense of incompleteness, and rather than saying we shouldn't he simply advises us to accept those feelings as being part of the long term slow work of God.
Above all, trust in the slow work of God. We are quite naturally impatient in everything to reach the end without delay. We should like to skip the intermediate stages. We are impatient of being on the way to something unknown, something new. And yet it is the law of all progress that it is made by passing through some stages of instability— and that it may take a very long time. And so I think it is with you; your ideas mature gradually—let them grow, let them shape themselves, without undue haste. Don’t try to force them on, as though you could be today what time (that is to say, grace and circumstances acting on your own good will) will make of you tomorrow. Only God could say what this new spirit gradually forming within you will be. Give Our Lord the benefit of believing that his hand is leading you, and accept the anxiety of feeling yourself in suspense and incomplete. [Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, SJ]
God bless you Jeni. I am sure that even struggling with the situation is leading you to do what is best, though it may be hard to see that in the tick of it. Don't be hard on yourself - alcohol works its damage over very long periods of time and proper deep healing from those effects is also bound to take time, but that doesn't mean we don't start down that path.
Joining you in prayer.
Michael
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 625
Hi Jeni,
I have faced a similar situation and one unlikely step helped me immensely. It was step 9. Just for reference:
"We made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others."
This is, as are all the steps, spiritual in nature. Which amends do I not make? Only those that would injure them or others. Your father may wish to make amends but the healing that you have done from the toxic nature of the relationship is a direct result of your detaching. Your fathers desire to fix things at this late stage is for him I suspect - not for you. Therefore, it is selfish. It is my goal to help others but helping them to be selfish is a lot more like codependency than it is help.
I define co-dependent act as one that I make for someone else and then feel guilt, shame, resentment, etc. over it. If I can act in another's behalf and then feel happy, joyous, free, etc. then it is a healthy act an one that I embrace. I am not a selfish person today. I might have selfish moments but those who know me will tell you that I am one of the least selfish people they know. Whatever selflessness I have acquired in recovery is, I believe, a direct result of remaining true to myself.
And for what it's worth, I don't believe in God...but if there is one, he or she knows you have this resource in SR and might have remained silent because he wanted you to use it. There are some good answers above and I have heard from believers that God sometimes works through people. Whatever you do, I hope you find peace in this situation.
I have faced a similar situation and one unlikely step helped me immensely. It was step 9. Just for reference:
"We made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others."
This is, as are all the steps, spiritual in nature. Which amends do I not make? Only those that would injure them or others. Your father may wish to make amends but the healing that you have done from the toxic nature of the relationship is a direct result of your detaching. Your fathers desire to fix things at this late stage is for him I suspect - not for you. Therefore, it is selfish. It is my goal to help others but helping them to be selfish is a lot more like codependency than it is help.
I define co-dependent act as one that I make for someone else and then feel guilt, shame, resentment, etc. over it. If I can act in another's behalf and then feel happy, joyous, free, etc. then it is a healthy act an one that I embrace. I am not a selfish person today. I might have selfish moments but those who know me will tell you that I am one of the least selfish people they know. Whatever selflessness I have acquired in recovery is, I believe, a direct result of remaining true to myself.
And for what it's worth, I don't believe in God...but if there is one, he or she knows you have this resource in SR and might have remained silent because he wanted you to use it. There are some good answers above and I have heard from believers that God sometimes works through people. Whatever you do, I hope you find peace in this situation.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: De
Posts: 1,333
In all my time in AA I only pray for the knowledge of God's will and the power to carry that out. If I pray for people or things, then I'm only asking my HP to do things my way. But, that's just me.
Maybe Al-Anon can help.
Maybe Al-Anon can help.
Last edited by Db1105; 05-31-2013 at 01:51 AM. Reason: I forgot to finish my thought
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South East England
Posts: 8,009
Thankyou Legna.
Db1105-Am I not praying for knowledge of God's will? Am my prayers for myself? I will have to question my motives I guess. There may be some selfishness behind it.
I have considered al-anon but there is a limited time span here.
Thankyou everyone x
Db1105-Am I not praying for knowledge of God's will? Am my prayers for myself? I will have to question my motives I guess. There may be some selfishness behind it.
I have considered al-anon but there is a limited time span here.
Thankyou everyone x
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Zion, Illinois
Posts: 3,411
Originally Posted by Jeni26 
I think it will hurt either way.
I just want to do the right thing. I am not the selfish self absorbed drunk that I used to be and I should be able to put someone else's needs before my own now. Shouldn't I?
I just want to do the right thing. I am not the selfish self absorbed drunk that I used to be and I should be able to put someone else's needs before my own now. Shouldn't I?
You say you "just want to do the right thing." For who?? You or your dad? Keep doing the right thing for yourself. You're still the most important person in the relationship. Don't bite off more than you can chew. Prayer IS WORKING. You're sober because of your prayers and the prayers of others who care about you, and the hard work you've done to get where you are. Don't blow it by stinky thinkin'. Be nice, cordial, polite, respectful, etc., to your dad but just be careful of how much you invest emotionally. You're not that well yet.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Canada. About as far south as you can get
Posts: 4,768
When prayer isn't helping
A lady in our group came to the meeting a while age complaining that she had had a bad day and she couldn't understand how that could happen .... she had said her prayers that morning.
I asked her how bad her day would have been if she hadn't said her prayers .......
This will work out just the way it's supposed to. Consult with your sponsor and the oldtimers.... and keep praying !!
All the best.
Bob R
A lady in our group came to the meeting a while age complaining that she had had a bad day and she couldn't understand how that could happen .... she had said her prayers that morning.
I asked her how bad her day would have been if she hadn't said her prayers .......
This will work out just the way it's supposed to. Consult with your sponsor and the oldtimers.... and keep praying !!
All the best.
Bob R
Fellow Traveler and Seeker
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 2,408
Originally Posted by Dee74
The Shack was one of the books that changed my life. I recommend you read it Jeni, if you haven't.
I'll get out of the 12 step forum now
D
I'll get out of the 12 step forum now
D
Fellow Traveler and Seeker
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 2,408
Jeni - I am of the opinion that prayers do work...but not in the way that we intend them to work. I don't have the Big Picture...He does. My prayers are in a limited fashion to an unlimited God, so I have no say or perspective to say whether the prayers are "working" or not. But I pray regardless. For me it's the intent and the love behind them. My prayers are not petitions, but a way to focus the day and the moment on doing His will, not mine. That's about it.
And in regards to your father, I don't have the experience of an alcoholic parent. But what I can say is that I understand that you have the expectation of having this picture perfect "ending" to this difficult relationship in a timely matter because of his illness, but this is something that perhaps needs to play out the way it plays out regardless of expectations you put on it. Continue to show love, compassion, and acceptance. Be there as needed.
As it points out in the BB (pg 87/ 88)
As we go through the day we pause, when agitated or doubtful, and ask for the right thought or action. We constantly remind ourselves we are no longer running the show, humbly saying to ourselves many times each day "Thy will be done." We are then in much less danger of excitement, fear, anger, worry, self-pity, or foolish decisions. We become much more efficient.
We do not tire so easily, for we are not burning up energy foolishly as we did when we were trying to arrange life to suit ourselves.
Blessings,
Paul
And in regards to your father, I don't have the experience of an alcoholic parent. But what I can say is that I understand that you have the expectation of having this picture perfect "ending" to this difficult relationship in a timely matter because of his illness, but this is something that perhaps needs to play out the way it plays out regardless of expectations you put on it. Continue to show love, compassion, and acceptance. Be there as needed.
As it points out in the BB (pg 87/ 88)
As we go through the day we pause, when agitated or doubtful, and ask for the right thought or action. We constantly remind ourselves we are no longer running the show, humbly saying to ourselves many times each day "Thy will be done." We are then in much less danger of excitement, fear, anger, worry, self-pity, or foolish decisions. We become much more efficient.
We do not tire so easily, for we are not burning up energy foolishly as we did when we were trying to arrange life to suit ourselves.
Blessings,
Paul
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
"I am of the opinion that prayers do work...but not in the way that we intend them to work."
right on, paul!
theres times i have to go through what im goin through that ive asked God for guidance with before i see where my prayers were answered.
right on, paul!
theres times i have to go through what im goin through that ive asked God for guidance with before i see where my prayers were answered.
Recovering
Join Date: May 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,361
Originally Posted by Music
Be nice, cordial, polite, respectful, etc., to your dad but just be careful of how much you invest emotionally. You're not that well yet.
Certainly from a Christian perspective, we follow someone who gave his life for others. We don't follow a hero who was able to always keep himself safe, but rather someone who was willing to give all for the sake of others.
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