Big Book Quote
Trudging that road.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Seattle Wa
Posts: 6,840
Big Book Quote "Our book is meant to be suggestive only We realize we know only a little. God will constantly disclose more to you and to us. Ask Him in your morning meditation what you can do each day for the man who is still sick . The answers will come, if your own house is in order. But obviously you cannot transmit something you haven't got. See to it that your relationship with Him is right , and great events will come to pass for you and countless others . This is the Great Fact for us."
~ Alcoholics Anonymous 1st Edition A Vision For You pg 164
c Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, INC.
~ Alcoholics Anonymous 1st Edition A Vision For You pg 164
c Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, INC.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 1,191
Ditto. I dig Bill's use of capitalization in words like "the Great Fact"
I like what Mickey B has to say about this paragraph.
"It may have bloody meant to be suggestive, but it aint!"
Or Scott L
"good news is that its suggestive. Bad news is its the only suggestion weve got."
I like what Mickey B has to say about this paragraph.
"It may have bloody meant to be suggestive, but it aint!"
Or Scott L
"good news is that its suggestive. Bad news is its the only suggestion weve got."
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 1,191
Originally Posted by tomsteve 
ya know, thats something i didnt notice before, bb thumper.
yeah, suggstions. personal experience has showed me they really are musts.
yeah, suggstions. personal experience has showed me they really are musts.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
yuppers. even though i know theres bookmarks with all the musts, i have tried about 2 dozen times to go through and underline em. keep forgetin what i was doin when i start reading.
i have looked at the bookmark with all the musts. started changing it to "need." i started gettin a lil attitude.
then i did it later on and changed the "must" to "try." knew that wouldnt work too good ifi t was "try."
i have looked at the bookmark with all the musts. started changing it to "need." i started gettin a lil attitude.
then i did it later on and changed the "must" to "try." knew that wouldnt work too good ifi t was "try."
Trudging that road.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Seattle Wa
Posts: 6,840
My sponsor used to always tell me "don't try do!" I would have to say this quote is in my top 5 favorite quotes out of the Big Book. Have a great day all and thanks for replying it is very cool to see.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 2
Musts
The fact that word 'must' appears in the BB gets misinterpreted and it ignores what was historically provided from our other literature -
----------------------
"The Book That Started It All (One of the original manuscripts)
handwritten endpaper margin note [TBTSIA: pp 190],
'We have said constantly the trouble with (organised) religion is that they try to dogmatically pour people into moulds. So why should we give specific instructions in the book such as saying do this and do that? You can obscure many alcoholics.'
---------------------
Pass It On
pp 172
"4. It was discovered that all forms of coercion, both direct and indirect, had to be dropped. We found that `checking' in the hands of amateurs too often resulted in criticism, and that resulted in resentment, which is probably the most serious problem the average alcoholic is troubled with.
pp 172
"6. We found that the principles of tolerance and love had to be much more emphasized in their actual practice than they were in the O. G., especially tolerance. We had to become much more inclusive and never, if possible, exclusive. We can never say to anyone (or insinuate) that he must agree to our formula or be excommunicated. The atheist may stand up in an A.A. meeting denying God, yet reporting how he has been helped in other ways. Experience tells us he will presently change his mind, but nobody tells him he must do so.
pp 205
Dr. Howard, a psychiatrist in Montclair, New Jersey, made a vitally important contribution. He suggested that there were too many "you musts." Bill said the psychiatrist's "idea was to remove all forms of coercion, to put our Fellowship on a `we ought' basis instead of a `you must' basis."
Jimmy B. had a colorful description of this interchange: "Dr. Howard read [the manuscript] and brought it back the next day," he recalled. "He said Bill was making a damn big mistake. `This is the Oxford Group,' he said. `You have to change the whole damn thing.'
"We asked, `Why? What is the matter with it? It is perfect.' "He said, `You have to take out the must. You have to take out the God - the complete God.' Did Bill go into a tizzy then! He almost blew his top. Here was his baby being torn apart by a screwball psychiatrist. "
-----------------------------
ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS COMES OF AGE
pp 168
One of them came from Dr. Howard, a well-known psychiatrist of Montclair, New Jersey. He pointed out that the text of our book was too full of the words "you" and "must." He suggested that we sub*stitute wherever possible such expressions as "we ought" or "we should." His idea was to remove all forms of coercion, to put our fellowship on a "we ought" basis instead of a "you must" basis. To make this shift throughout the text of the book would be a big job.
I argued weakly against it but soon gave in; it was perfectly apparent that the doctor was dead right. Dr. Silkworth and Dr. Tiebout gave us similar advice and much more besides. And we must never forget that it was Dr. Silkworth who wrote the Introduction to the first edition of Alcoholics Anonymous, giving the volume medical standing.
------------------------
In 80 odd usages, it's difficult to generalize, but there are no "you musts ..." [except as noted at the end] - the book says, "we must ...", who are they referring too? - I wasn't even born when the book was written - the authors are telling us what THEY had to do, not what WE must do -
Lastly, as an anecdote, there are like 7 "you musts ..." in the Big Book - anyone care to guess where? - In the chapter "To the Wives", Bill apparently practiced no such restraint when it came to telling the women what to do
---------------------------
It is very plain to me that the authors went to great lengths to describe our program, offering it as a suggestion and avoiding directing or telling anyone what to do -
----------------------
"The Book That Started It All (One of the original manuscripts)
handwritten endpaper margin note [TBTSIA: pp 190],
'We have said constantly the trouble with (organised) religion is that they try to dogmatically pour people into moulds. So why should we give specific instructions in the book such as saying do this and do that? You can obscure many alcoholics.'
---------------------
Pass It On
pp 172
"4. It was discovered that all forms of coercion, both direct and indirect, had to be dropped. We found that `checking' in the hands of amateurs too often resulted in criticism, and that resulted in resentment, which is probably the most serious problem the average alcoholic is troubled with.
pp 172
"6. We found that the principles of tolerance and love had to be much more emphasized in their actual practice than they were in the O. G., especially tolerance. We had to become much more inclusive and never, if possible, exclusive. We can never say to anyone (or insinuate) that he must agree to our formula or be excommunicated. The atheist may stand up in an A.A. meeting denying God, yet reporting how he has been helped in other ways. Experience tells us he will presently change his mind, but nobody tells him he must do so.
pp 205
Dr. Howard, a psychiatrist in Montclair, New Jersey, made a vitally important contribution. He suggested that there were too many "you musts." Bill said the psychiatrist's "idea was to remove all forms of coercion, to put our Fellowship on a `we ought' basis instead of a `you must' basis."
Jimmy B. had a colorful description of this interchange: "Dr. Howard read [the manuscript] and brought it back the next day," he recalled. "He said Bill was making a damn big mistake. `This is the Oxford Group,' he said. `You have to change the whole damn thing.'
"We asked, `Why? What is the matter with it? It is perfect.' "He said, `You have to take out the must. You have to take out the God - the complete God.' Did Bill go into a tizzy then! He almost blew his top. Here was his baby being torn apart by a screwball psychiatrist. "
-----------------------------
ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS COMES OF AGE
pp 168
One of them came from Dr. Howard, a well-known psychiatrist of Montclair, New Jersey. He pointed out that the text of our book was too full of the words "you" and "must." He suggested that we sub*stitute wherever possible such expressions as "we ought" or "we should." His idea was to remove all forms of coercion, to put our fellowship on a "we ought" basis instead of a "you must" basis. To make this shift throughout the text of the book would be a big job.
I argued weakly against it but soon gave in; it was perfectly apparent that the doctor was dead right. Dr. Silkworth and Dr. Tiebout gave us similar advice and much more besides. And we must never forget that it was Dr. Silkworth who wrote the Introduction to the first edition of Alcoholics Anonymous, giving the volume medical standing.
------------------------
In 80 odd usages, it's difficult to generalize, but there are no "you musts ..." [except as noted at the end] - the book says, "we must ...", who are they referring too? - I wasn't even born when the book was written - the authors are telling us what THEY had to do, not what WE must do -
Lastly, as an anecdote, there are like 7 "you musts ..." in the Big Book - anyone care to guess where? - In the chapter "To the Wives", Bill apparently practiced no such restraint when it came to telling the women what to do
---------------------------
It is very plain to me that the authors went to great lengths to describe our program, offering it as a suggestion and avoiding directing or telling anyone what to do -
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: WA
Posts: 891
Originally Posted by newby1961
My sponsor used to always tell me "don't try do!" I would have to say this quote is in my top 5 favorite quotes out of the Big Book. Have a great day all and thanks for replying it is very cool to see.
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