Steel on Steel
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
Steel on Steel
Posted here so as to not hijack Pagekeeper's Fellowship of the Spirit topic.
'As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.'
Steel on Steel is a spiritual exercise intended for the spiritual growth of the participants by holding each accountable to the other participants. I don't know if the format is a Mark H. invention or not.
A read through the format does a much better job of describing it than I can. It can be found on a google search, at least one source is AA Sources
Basically, a small group keeps track of their personal actions and efforts in a number of different life areas, including AA, home life, job, relationships, finances, etc. Each person gets 10 minutes to present their current status in those areas. Needs to be 10 minutes because there is just enough time to get through it without explanation or justification.
The other participants offer feedback and considerations, which are taken without comment or discussion. That feedback is considered and incorporated for the next month.
I've found it requires some folks who are pretty solid, pretty committed to spiritual growth themselves, and pretty much willing to love you enough to tell you the truth and help you grow.
'As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.'
Steel on Steel is a spiritual exercise intended for the spiritual growth of the participants by holding each accountable to the other participants. I don't know if the format is a Mark H. invention or not.
A read through the format does a much better job of describing it than I can. It can be found on a google search, at least one source is AA Sources
Basically, a small group keeps track of their personal actions and efforts in a number of different life areas, including AA, home life, job, relationships, finances, etc. Each person gets 10 minutes to present their current status in those areas. Needs to be 10 minutes because there is just enough time to get through it without explanation or justification.
The other participants offer feedback and considerations, which are taken without comment or discussion. That feedback is considered and incorporated for the next month.
I've found it requires some folks who are pretty solid, pretty committed to spiritual growth themselves, and pretty much willing to love you enough to tell you the truth and help you grow.
for the info Keith12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
I got the impression from a Mark H. open talk (Chris Raymer's sponsor........before he died) that he (Mark) started Steel on Steel or created it. If I'm way off base here, don't freak out. I'm going from memory and could be mistaken.
Anyway, I've heard Mark H and Dave F talk about Steel on Steel in several talks/lectures and it's got me reeeeeeeeally intrigued. It sounds like one helluva deal to work through.
Sounds like, as you said in your pm Keith, you absolutely MUST find ppl who are able to take some pretty big shots to their egos, able to accept criticism in the form of "considerations," and aren't going to shy away from some of the pain that comes from growing.
How'd you find the guys/gals you do it with (Keith) or did they find you? This is something I'd like to do but am not quite sure who'd I'd want to do it with, who'd even be WILLING to do it, and so forth.
Anyway, I've heard Mark H and Dave F talk about Steel on Steel in several talks/lectures and it's got me reeeeeeeeally intrigued. It sounds like one helluva deal to work through.
Sounds like, as you said in your pm Keith, you absolutely MUST find ppl who are able to take some pretty big shots to their egos, able to accept criticism in the form of "considerations," and aren't going to shy away from some of the pain that comes from growing.
How'd you find the guys/gals you do it with (Keith) or did they find you? This is something I'd like to do but am not quite sure who'd I'd want to do it with, who'd even be WILLING to do it, and so forth.
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 812
Thanks, Keith. That's not an exercise for the faint of heart! Please keep us posted on how it develops and progresses.
I printed out page 5 of the PDF (the checklist). It looks like a worthwhile review, even if you're not in a group like this one.
I printed out page 5 of the PDF (the checklist). It looks like a worthwhile review, even if you're not in a group like this one.
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 812
Originally Posted by DayTrader 
How'd you find the guys/gals you do it with (Keith) or did they find you? This is something I'd like to do but am not quite sure who'd I'd want to do it with, who'd even be WILLING to do it, and so forth.
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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Yeah, it can be a little damaging to one's ego. But isn't that my problem, always running the show?
From what I see in practice, it's all done with love, just like the format requires. So I actually end up extremely grateful for the push to look at that thing I really don't want to look at. Like, really grateful. Wonderous thing.
I'm blessed with a really strong home group. There were quite a few guys in there that would have been great for this little exercise. My current sponsor and I had been talking about it for a while now. And come to think of it, it's been our way of interacting. That spiritual consent thing. This guy gave me an example to live by.
It seemed like, whenever he was asked to consider something, he actually would. And he'd make changes to reflect that consideration. I kind of got to be part of this process before we started doing it formally.
What pushed us was the core group of women in our home group started up a Steel thing. I got to see the rapid and wonderful benefits for them, and said 'I gotta have some of that.' They do it a little different (wrong, of course LOL), but it sure is working for them. Depth. So my sponsor and I decided to do it, and approached two other guys in the group. All solid spiritual experience as the result of the Steps. All committed and active in AA and in applying the principles in daily life. But really, it could have been another group of 4 guys just as easily.
It's one of the blessings of that home group. Everyone is in that common solution, part of the page 17 fellowship. It's also one of the few groups around here that has a solid group of women into the BB solution and committed to those principles. Chick thumpers are hard to find.
I would have to say that having it single gender is a must. At least for me. It's much harder for me to show some honesty and vulnerability with men. I can get stuck in that being manly thing. Same gender is more challenging for me.
And yeah, Carol, it can't help but deepen an already pretty deep friendship with these folks. Some of my friends will support me no matter what. Some of my better friends will care enough to get in between me and myself. And some of the rare few will actually take that walk to god alongside me.
Wow. Can't seem to stop the tears. My life is a miracle. Thanks guys (and girls).
From what I see in practice, it's all done with love, just like the format requires. So I actually end up extremely grateful for the push to look at that thing I really don't want to look at. Like, really grateful. Wonderous thing.
I'm blessed with a really strong home group. There were quite a few guys in there that would have been great for this little exercise. My current sponsor and I had been talking about it for a while now. And come to think of it, it's been our way of interacting. That spiritual consent thing. This guy gave me an example to live by.
It seemed like, whenever he was asked to consider something, he actually would. And he'd make changes to reflect that consideration. I kind of got to be part of this process before we started doing it formally.
What pushed us was the core group of women in our home group started up a Steel thing. I got to see the rapid and wonderful benefits for them, and said 'I gotta have some of that.' They do it a little different (wrong, of course LOL), but it sure is working for them. Depth. So my sponsor and I decided to do it, and approached two other guys in the group. All solid spiritual experience as the result of the Steps. All committed and active in AA and in applying the principles in daily life. But really, it could have been another group of 4 guys just as easily.
It's one of the blessings of that home group. Everyone is in that common solution, part of the page 17 fellowship. It's also one of the few groups around here that has a solid group of women into the BB solution and committed to those principles. Chick thumpers are hard to find.
I would have to say that having it single gender is a must. At least for me. It's much harder for me to show some honesty and vulnerability with men. I can get stuck in that being manly thing. Same gender is more challenging for me.
And yeah, Carol, it can't help but deepen an already pretty deep friendship with these folks. Some of my friends will support me no matter what. Some of my better friends will care enough to get in between me and myself. And some of the rare few will actually take that walk to god alongside me.
Wow. Can't seem to stop the tears. My life is a miracle. Thanks guys (and girls).
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
Originally Posted by DayTrader
When did u get sober Keith? I know you've mentioned it before but I don't recall and can't seem to find it.
I think, too often, sobriety time gets thrown around as muscle in a discussion. 'I must be right because it's worked for me for xx years' doesn't have much validity in a program based on spiritual principles. I guess I'd prefer to be known by my fruit, good or rotten, and not by some arbitrary date of when booze did for me what I couldn't do for myself.
My experience with sobriety time is that I continue to do the suggested actions, and whenever I look up, another year has gone by.
i've done my almost
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,934
Ok, I'll post it. I'm a bit confused and maybe this is just over my head.
I'm in AA, but we seem to talk mostly about our problems with alcohol or at least that's the goal. I often hear people say "I'm not a shrink, I'm not a marriage counselor, I'm not a taxi and/or AA is for problems that relate to alcohol, singleness of purpose and all that."
From what I'm reading, this "steel on steel" seems to be a group of people talking about all their problems?
I'm in AA, but we seem to talk mostly about our problems with alcohol or at least that's the goal. I often hear people say "I'm not a shrink, I'm not a marriage counselor, I'm not a taxi and/or AA is for problems that relate to alcohol, singleness of purpose and all that."
From what I'm reading, this "steel on steel" seems to be a group of people talking about all their problems?
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
That's cool Keith. I respect that and often feel the same way. My sponsor ship lineage insists upon announcing it (so the others in the group can know where you're at and to keep you accountable to that date being your last drink).
Re. Kjell: Keith would be a better responder to your question than I am but I'll at least tell you why steel on steel intrigues me. My understanding of those meetings is what's discussed are the things that are blocking us from God, being of service to Him, and acting as God would have us be as opposed to how we are acting or want to be. "Problems" in life are discussed but, they're discussed similar to how problems in our lives are written down in step 4 and discussed with another person in step 5. And this is key, they're discussed from the standpoint that the person with the problem fully understands that "problems are of our own making." In other words, any problems you're having are problems of YOUR own making. Discussion of those problems (like doing a 5th step) is done so the others in the group who are not emotionally involved in them can give you some suggestions or some alternatives to consider.
Check out the worksheet Keith posted a link to: Steel on Steel
It goes over the "format" of the meeting:
1) The Circle and triangle -
a. Are you proportionally involved in each of the three sides of the Circle and Triangle? In other words:
b. Where are you specifically in your Program of Recovery (Steps)?
c. Where are you in Unity & Fellowship, which is the interacting with other AA's (Traditions)?
d. Where are you in Service, which is the giving back and contributing, inside or outside of AA (Concepts & Warrantees)?
2) Prayer and Meditation -
a. How many times did I do evening review and meditation since our last meeting?
b. How many times did I do morning prayer and meditation since our last meeting?
c. Have I been using my evening review to help with my vision in my morning meditation?
d. How is my relationship with God?
e. What specific things am I doing to deepen and broaden my relationship with God?
f. Have I been praying the 9Th Step prayers?
g. Have I been praying for others?
h. Have I invited or have I been praying with other members of my family?
3) My A.A. Programa.
How many meetings have I attended since we last met?
b. Do I have and am I a member of a home group?
c. Am I of service to my AA group? (coffee, cleanup, speaking, group officer)
d. Am I of service to those OUTSIDE of AA? (work, family, friends)
e. Am I spiritually accountable to some people in my life? (sponsor and spiritual advisors)
f. Do I have a sponsor? How do I use my sponsor? Am I accountable to my sponsor?
g. Am I a sponsor? If so, what am I doing for my sponsees?
........and so on.
Steel on Steel is not specifically or necessarily AA but it's obviously rooted in AA. I look at it as AA meetings on steroids. Or another way to inventory and admit your shortcomings, discover where you're blocked from God and to hold you accountable to take the action you're able to to correct the blockage.
Re. Kjell: Keith would be a better responder to your question than I am but I'll at least tell you why steel on steel intrigues me. My understanding of those meetings is what's discussed are the things that are blocking us from God, being of service to Him, and acting as God would have us be as opposed to how we are acting or want to be. "Problems" in life are discussed but, they're discussed similar to how problems in our lives are written down in step 4 and discussed with another person in step 5. And this is key, they're discussed from the standpoint that the person with the problem fully understands that "problems are of our own making." In other words, any problems you're having are problems of YOUR own making. Discussion of those problems (like doing a 5th step) is done so the others in the group who are not emotionally involved in them can give you some suggestions or some alternatives to consider.
Check out the worksheet Keith posted a link to: Steel on Steel
It goes over the "format" of the meeting:
1) The Circle and triangle -
a. Are you proportionally involved in each of the three sides of the Circle and Triangle? In other words:
b. Where are you specifically in your Program of Recovery (Steps)?
c. Where are you in Unity & Fellowship, which is the interacting with other AA's (Traditions)?
d. Where are you in Service, which is the giving back and contributing, inside or outside of AA (Concepts & Warrantees)?
2) Prayer and Meditation -
a. How many times did I do evening review and meditation since our last meeting?
b. How many times did I do morning prayer and meditation since our last meeting?
c. Have I been using my evening review to help with my vision in my morning meditation?
d. How is my relationship with God?
e. What specific things am I doing to deepen and broaden my relationship with God?
f. Have I been praying the 9Th Step prayers?
g. Have I been praying for others?
h. Have I invited or have I been praying with other members of my family?
3) My A.A. Programa.
How many meetings have I attended since we last met?
b. Do I have and am I a member of a home group?
c. Am I of service to my AA group? (coffee, cleanup, speaking, group officer)
d. Am I of service to those OUTSIDE of AA? (work, family, friends)
e. Am I spiritually accountable to some people in my life? (sponsor and spiritual advisors)
f. Do I have a sponsor? How do I use my sponsor? Am I accountable to my sponsor?
g. Am I a sponsor? If so, what am I doing for my sponsees?
........and so on.
Steel on Steel is not specifically or necessarily AA but it's obviously rooted in AA. I look at it as AA meetings on steroids. Or another way to inventory and admit your shortcomings, discover where you're blocked from God and to hold you accountable to take the action you're able to to correct the blockage.
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Originally Posted by Kjell
From what I'm reading, this "steel on steel" seems to be a group of people talking about all their problems?
It's about an honest assessment of where I am at spiritually, and honest feedback about how I can improve my spiritual connection.
i've done my almost
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,934
Originally Posted by keithj
In practice, Kjell, it's anything but that. The only talking is to list what actions I am or am not taking that either move me closer or keep me distant from that vital power.
It's about an honest assessment of where I am at spiritually, and honest feedback about how I can improve my spiritual connection.
It's about an honest assessment of where I am at spiritually, and honest feedback about how I can improve my spiritual connection.
Thanks for the explanation (and also thanks to Daytrader).
It`s ok to stay sober
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central NC
Posts: 20,903
a few of us guys was going to do it 2 years ago but we drifted apart before we could get started
I definitely would give it a try,but it may be like sitting with my sponsor and his 2 twin brothers...yikes!
steel on steel originally came from a verse in the Bible-maybe Proverbs
as steel sharpens steel,so one man sharpens another
I definitely would give it a try,but it may be like sitting with my sponsor and his 2 twin brothers...yikes!
steel on steel originally came from a verse in the Bible-maybe Proverbs
as steel sharpens steel,so one man sharpens another
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
Originally Posted by bballdad
steel on steel originally came from a verse in the Bible-maybe Proverbs
as steel sharpens steel,so one man sharpens another
as steel sharpens steel,so one man sharpens another
Steel on Steel @ XA
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
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Just to clarify.....
There was no steel in ancient times.
Proverbs 27
"Iron on iron"
Here is what Keith quoted
There was no steel in ancient times.
Proverbs 27
"Iron on iron"
Here is what Keith quoted
'As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.'
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 2,548
Interesting information keith.......i have not come across steel on steel in the uk.
nor have i heard of anyone with experience of it.
Ive posted before that i spend a fair amount of time with some like minded drunks....a rag tag bunch of 12 step guys.......most of us sobered up around the same time.
sometimes fishing or each others place....that group has turned into something wonderful.....in the beginning bonded together by a common hope of "maybe its possible not to drink".........
and these days a close "group" like minded guys sober through the same on-going process
One thing we get upto quite regular is sharing with with each other situations / topics that would normally have been "private" .....relationships...work...finanial difficulties.....and how those topics "line up" with a desire to live by spritual principles...
In my own experience some of the feedback has been rapidly ego deflating......these are NOT a bunch of guys that dress up feedback in a "frilly dress".
the stark truth about me, can sometimes be difficult to except......but because of the level of trust amongst us.....imformation...painful imformation....filters through this sometimes thick skull...and i know the others feel the same..
i dont have any dark corners with these guys.....i believe it keep me firmly on the rails..even though the truth hurts at times....for me the practice of spritual principles takes work and a new deeper level of willingness...beyond my understanding not many years ago.
nor have i heard of anyone with experience of it.
Ive posted before that i spend a fair amount of time with some like minded drunks....a rag tag bunch of 12 step guys.......most of us sobered up around the same time.
sometimes fishing or each others place....that group has turned into something wonderful.....in the beginning bonded together by a common hope of "maybe its possible not to drink".........
and these days a close "group" like minded guys sober through the same on-going process
One thing we get upto quite regular is sharing with with each other situations / topics that would normally have been "private" .....relationships...work...finanial difficulties.....and how those topics "line up" with a desire to live by spritual principles...
In my own experience some of the feedback has been rapidly ego deflating......these are NOT a bunch of guys that dress up feedback in a "frilly dress".
the stark truth about me, can sometimes be difficult to except......but because of the level of trust amongst us.....imformation...painful imformation....filters through this sometimes thick skull...and i know the others feel the same..
i dont have any dark corners with these guys.....i believe it keep me firmly on the rails..even though the truth hurts at times....for me the practice of spritual principles takes work and a new deeper level of willingness...beyond my understanding not many years ago.
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by keithj
Basically, a small group keeps track of their personal actions and efforts in a number of different life areas
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