jhvw2000

I am a gay male. My AA group and NAMI group both think that I should ask to have this removed as a character defect. I DO NOT agree with this. I was made this way. It drives me away from the entire recovery/support system. How do you deal with this?

Sugah

I would find another group. This group is apparently bigoted and homophobic. I'm sorry you've had the misfortune to encounter it. Are there other groups in your area?

Peace & Love,
Sugah

BadCompany

Tell them to kiss my foot.
page69
and then my other foot.
page69

Actually I'd just ignore them. The big book is very specific about staying out of others sex affairs. How you should deal with this is to read the big book so when someone gets out of line with their "advice" you will be prepared and ignore them as you will.

freya

Everyone in both groups believes this? How do you know? Are you absolutely sure that you are not making assumptions and pre-judging anyone the way others are judging you here?

If indeed you know for a fact that everyone in both groups believes this, then I strongly suggest you look for some different groups -- or start a different group yourself.

It is not anyone's job but your own -- with the help of your sponsor -- to identify your character defects. And the fact that other people seem to think that it is their job and their right is a reflection on their own programs and their own recoveries, not on yours. (In fact, the BB, is very explicit about this, especially on the issue of sex!)

And besides, Step 7 isn't about you telling God what character defects to remove, Step 7 is about your asking God to remove any character defects that stand in the way of your being useful to Him. And, again, people who are truly knowledgeable about and working the Steps should be well aware of this. Who are they to think they know better than God what stands in the way of your being useful to Him???

In all honesty, I have only ever had 1 person in program approach me and suggest that my being a lesbian was a problem/character defect and an outside issue, and my response was: "Thank you for sharing, but, as the object of your judgement and intolerance, I really don't think I'm the best person to help you deal with it. Perhaps it would be better for you to work through these problems with your sponsor".....and then I walked away while she was still too stunned to respond. She's never brought it up to me again.

I've found that a lot of how much people try to get away with with me depends on how I conduct myself. If I make it perfectly clear to people -- both in my words and in my behavior -- that I am not ashamed of who I am and am not going to tolerate anyone's trying to shame me or to puff themselves up at my expense, then most people don't have the audacity to try to make any kind of issue out of it....and for those who do, I am more than willing to be enough of a b*tch to dispense with however much of an *ssh*l* they want to try to be.

I realize that you are in the mid-west and I am in Western NY, so that most likely does make some difference here in terms of how people behave at meetings and what issues they are going to imagine they might be able to get some mileage out of when it comes to trying to compensate for their own insecurity and self-loathing by trying to shame others, but, regardless of the location, that is just not appropriate behavior within any 12 Step rooms. In fact, the story on pages 141 (beginning with "As group after group saw.....)-142 (ending at the bottom) of the 12 & 12 (discussing Tradition 3) about the "stigmatized" man who asked to be allowed to join one of the earliest AA groups when AA was only 2 years old is actually about a gay man. Maybe you need to point that out to your homegroup members and suggest that they read that chapter and see how the founders decided the question. If the answer that the founders came up with was good enough for them, surely it's good enough for your homies! If it's not, then these people really want to play God with you, and you really need to start another group.

....and you could even name it "What Would the Master Do?" if you really wanted to get their goats! HA!

Anyways, whatever you do, please don't let these hateful and insecure people compromise your recovery!

Praying for you -- freya

Music

Hi my friend. Glad to see you here. Chalk it up to ignorance. My brother is gay so I'm familiar with both sides. When I first found out, I was angry, embarrassed, and frustrated but I soon realized that he was my brother nonetheless, and I remembered when we were growning up, I knew something was different. I just didn't know what to call it. In the Big Book on page 84 at the bottom it suggests that patience and tolerance is our code. This applies to you as well. Don't let them chase you off. You are who you are and that's that. Help them to understand by being open and proud of who you are. Some may not come around but a lot will. Alcoholics deal with the same misunderstanding in every day life by some who don't or won't understand. Hang in there.

Fenian_Man

There is a story entitled "Tightrope" in the 4th edition of the Big Book. It's about a gay alcoholic who found the answer to his alcoholism, and a good life in AA. Interestingly enough, he was accepted for exactly who he was. So there.

I would question the idea of "guidance from the group" in your spiritual journey in any event. It turns into what one of the co-founders of AA called "rank spiritual aggression".

So welcome, friend, blessings and peace to you.

navysteve

This isn't a new issue for you my friend. I am sorry that is going on still. Page 67 tells us a thing or two

lizw

That's disgusting. Like others have suggested, go to another group. That certainly isn't the AA I know.

I did have a sponsor who was 'transgender' when I was new and she told me she 'came out' when she got sober - went from living as a man to living as a woman. She's told me some of the old guys (from the dark ages) in AA were offended but she just went to different groups where they accepted her. She's been sober 25 years (easy) now.

Her most popular saying to me was 'Those that mind don't matter and those that matter don't mind.' Sometimes unconditional love is just talked about at some groups rather than displayed by action.

nandm

You have received some wonderful responses. All I can add is my support as I am an alcoholic lesbian who has had some people make their disapproval clear. I choose to ignore these people as I truly feel more sorry for them than I do anger. They choose to remain ignorant about something they do not understand rather than do a bit of research and find facts to base their opinions on. As others have said AA is not about exclusion due to someone's gender, sexuality, race, or sex. It is about inclusion of the alcoholic plain and simple. The other stuff is just irrelevant.

One of the best pieces of advice I have received in the program of AA is "what others think of me is none of my business. What is my business is to help the still suffering alcoholic not judge them."

keithj

Howdy jhvw2000. I deal with a group dictating moral ground by looking at the directions in the BB.

Do YOU find being gay objectionable? Do YOU find it to be a character defect? The answer is simple. In Step 4, I identified things that I found objectionable, the causes and conditions of my selfishness, my spiritual malady. In Steps 6 and 7, these are about to be cast out. These things that I've identified as objectionable. If you haven't identified being gay as objectionable (and I sure don't identify it as that), then there is nothing to question.

Maybe on a little deeper level, I look at the wording of the 7th Step prayer. 'I am now willing that you should have all of me, good and bad." All means all. And maybe I don't get to choose what is good and bad. I'm willing that God has all of me, to use in whatever way He sees fit.

My higher power gets to mold me into the person that I am supposed to be. Through alignment of my will and God's will, I become the person He would have me be, which leads right back to the person I am without the spiritual malady and character defects.

Would your concept of a higher power have you gay? If not, maybe that concept needs expanding.

Music

I was in Detroit years ago when I had about six months sober. I stayed in the middle of town at a hotel. I called the AA central office to find a meeting and was told the only one within walking distance was a gay meeting. When I got to the meeting, I was welcomed with open arms and enjoyed the meeting. The only thing I couldn't relate to were the relationship issues that were talked about but the hugs and handshakes were warm and loving as at any meeting I'd attended up to that point.

Alcoholics tend sometimes to lock themselves into a box by thinking that gats, straights, blacks, hispanics, whites, males, females or whatever, are somehow different from the run of the mill drunk. As the Big Book states, under normal circumstances we may not play and break bread together but when it comes to the disease of alcoholism, we're all in the same boat. I've sat in meetings with millionaires and guys off the street, whose beds are bicycle boxes or park benches and the message is the same. One drink is too many and at the same time, never enough.

The funny thing about the 7th step prayer is that we ask God to remove all those "defects of character, which stand in the way our usefulness to Him and to others." It's not up to me to decide which defects to remove! I've asked God to remove them. So, my job is to get out of the way and let Him decide what goes and what stays. If being gay is a character defect, I'm sure He'll do something about it. It's not up to me or anyone else to make that decision. I've seen a lot of "sober" folks, including myself who have way worse character defects than being gay. I work on them every day. One of them is deciding what character defects exist in other people. I need to mind my own business.

RobbyRobot

Great share!
and Best Wishes, jhvw
Rob

Found

It's been said already above but it can't be stressed enough:

the group you describe isn't AA and should take that sign off the door - if they are coming to you as a group and citing a group decision on the subject. (I don't know what NAMI is)

It isn't up to any group to tell you what are your defects. It is up to you to determine what they are when you do steps 4 and 5 in relation to your alcoholism.

The fellowship of AA has but one primary purpose, to help us get sober. Opinions on sexuality differ infinitely and it is suggested we survey our own way of doing sexuality solely since that sheds light on our positives & negatives as well as surveying anything else in life does.

May you receive the power you need to keep sober.

Also - you should pick a sponsor to help you to adhere to AA principles not to boss you around.

Tommyh

glad you posted this
I have sponsored a gay man in the past
I figured out it was my job to help him with the steps and help him get sober,and leave the other things up to him and his HP

you being gay is really none of the groups business and it will probably pass,besides you can help other gay folks out who eventually will show up there looking for help

barb dwyer

my 2 cents:

yup. find a new group. START a new group - LOL!

There' have been gay men and women
involved in AA since the FOUNDERS DAYS .

If it wasn't an issue for the Founders
then it souldn't be an issue for this bunch.

Boleo

In may area we have Gay&Lesbian groups with a special designation in the directory for them.