navysteve

I have developed a bad habit in my sobriety of getting caught up in the black and white of words. I know I am not alone in this. One such phrase that used to really bother me was when people said AA is a selfish program. I would often blast them during the meeting and talk about how my Big Book says that selfishness is the root of my troubles and how that sort of stuff they are saying cannot be reconciled with the program in the book. Then I read a letter from Bill:

I can see why you are disturbed…. The word ’selfish’ ordinarily implies that one is acquisitive, demanding, and thoughtless of the welfare of others. Of course, the A.A. way of life does not at all imply such undesirable traits.

What do these speakers mean? Well, any theologian will tell you that the salvation of his own soul is the highest vocation that a man can have. Without salvation - however we may define this - he will have little or nothing. For us in A.A. there is even more urgency.

If we cannot or will not achieve sobriety, then we become truly lost, right in the here and now. We are of no value to anyone, including ourselves, until we find salvation from alcohol. Therefore, our own recovery and spiritual growth have to come first - a right and necessary kind of self-concern.

I would lose the message because of a choice in words.

The good news is that the quality of my life is so high that I can spend time inventorying things like this and spend time working towards their removal. I find intolerance to be a very ugly defect. By societies standards I would be seen as a fairly open minded person. I do not suffer many of the hang-ups or prejudices I see in others. It can be easy for me to rest on my laurels and be content with where I am. Yet a single word said in a meeting can close my ears and heart to you. Oh, and coincidentally, I only learned I had this defect by seeing it in you, which brings me to another AA phrase I have hated:

Whenever you point the finger you have five pointing back at you

Ahh how the truth will set us free ( after it pi$$es me off!)

Which also leads me to believe that the character defects of others can actually serve me, and perhaps mine can serve you. Which is probably why meetings many would call sick AA, contemporary AA, Mainstream AA actually appeal to me. I learn alot about me and where I was and where I am going in those meetings.

Thank you

nelco

this is a very good topic Steve and I have seen this very word pulled out and used in an actual selfish manner. There is a lot of misunderstanding around it at times.
One guy I know uses it often to do as he pleases and avoid chores at home.....saying this is a selfish program I have to look after me first. He was sitting in a room in his house playing meditating cd's as the children screamed in the kitchen and mum tried to cope!!

stone

Like when on an plane and they tell you to put your oxygen mask on before putting your child's one on, we can be of no use to anybody unless we put our recovery above all.

That doesn't mean you can sit in your room leaving your wife to cope with the kids though, lol.

stone

Yea, me too. I have to watch this in myself.

Rob B

I hear you Steve,
The letter of the law, has often been a stumbling block for me to have an actual experience with the spirit and intent behind a principle. I'm working on maintaining the integrity of the message, without being a tool in the process, currently my practice has been to watch my thoughts and motives whenever I am about to open my mouth. If they are not God given, using the absolutes of the OXford group as my litmus test I remain quiet.

I've learned God uses me as I am, not as I would like to be.

24hrsAday

i try my best to carry the proper message.. since i am not perfect i know i sometimes fail..

jimhere

I try to be, and sometimes fail, very careful in the manner in which I use words. Words are very important. So I tend to pick and choose what I'm going to say carefully. One word can change the meaning of an entire sentence, or maybe an entire message.

And yes, I am not immune to being annoyed when someone else uses a word or words that give a wrong impression or carry a false message. I don't really feel to bad about it.

navysteve

I do understand that. I have known people in AA use this as an escape tactic for alot of things. But I have been guilty of assigning that word ( and others) to that behavior which I have judged as inappropriate ( which of course alot of it is)

Rob,
You said tool and it made me laugh.

Thanks for that. I have to remember my own self righteousness. One quick glance at my past, even in sobriety ought to be enough to remind me of who I am.


He will perceive that his spiritual growth is lopsided, that for an average
man like himself, a spiritual life which does not include his family obligations may not be so perfect after all.

BB 129


using the absolutes of the OXford group as my litmus test

Love that! Its a shame too many people in the rooms nowadays don't even know that exists.

1. Absolute Honesty

2. Absolute Unselfishness

3. Absolute Purity

4. Absolute Love

Some great literature about the Oxford Group can be found at:

Stepstudy.org

Mark75

But to use this litmus test, to allow change in one's behavior, the 6th step must be taken... because you could say that what you've described is ongoing 7th step work??

Maybe this is an obvious statement... but looking at that litmus test can be intimidating or, depending on where a person is at, repellant, if the individual has not developed.... willingness.

???
Thanx Steve

Mark

keithj

Hmmm, Steve. Guilty. Less guilty than I used to be, but still guilty. I'll even go one step farther and say that I can get annoyed by other people getting annoyed over a catch phrase that seemingly goes against our principles.

Over and over, I have to check my motives. Are they selfish or not? If what someone else says gets me on edge, it indicates a problem with my reaction to life. It indicates fear.

I'm thankful I get to keep growing as a person, guided by all the other people around me. Thanks for the topic.

Tommyh

I still disagree with Bill on a few things

We are of no value to anyone

stone

Yes, I was thinking just that last night when someone's share annoyed me in a meeting.

Boleo

Ever since I experienced the 9th step promise:

"We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows"

My program is no longer selfish.

Ever since I experienced the 10th step promise:

"We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality—safe and protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us."

My program is no longer about sobriety.

- All Big Book quotes from the 4th Edition -

navysteve

I have been guilty of being the guy that says the wrong thing in meetings that to me seem harmless but to others seem devestating. As someone who moves alot since getting sober, I have learned to sit back and observe when I move to a new area. Certain phrases will pi$$ people off in AA. And although I am not against ruffling feathers when appropriate, I try not to do it just for kicks. It is strange but AA fellowships in different areas develop their own sub-culture with their own unique lingo ( well not so unique but they often take terms out of the Big Book or twelve and twelve and use them as catch-phrases for lack of a better term)

FightingIrish

I am guilty of being the newcomer in meetings who takes things personally, when I felt as if someone was sharing "at" me in response to something I had said.

Lately I am guilty of sharing "at" people in response to something they had said.

Funny how that works.

I have been meditating lately about "stepping off the trigger" - i.e., not responding in a knee-jerk fashion when I have a reaction to something someone says.

navysteve

I can fully understand that Mark and that is probably why the Oxford Group is no more, because many alcoholics resisted their methods. But in many ways we have grown apart from some of the spirituality that has been helpful to so many. Dare I say:

Take what you want and leave the rest?

Mark75

I hope you understand that I like that litmus test and try to incorporate it into my daily life... I am constantly getting in my own way though, but it is a standard to strive toward... And I was trying to make the connection in my own mind between the oxford group absolutes and the twelve steps....

I feel that those absolutes are impossible without first becoming entirely ready (willing) to ask God to remove our character defects... know what I mean???

Mark

Firehazard

Yes, After taking a seventh step I wondered why weren't they removed altogether at once(character dfcts). Ha Ha My sponsor said that with

that step we give god the good and the bad to remove and perfect in time. This makes me wonder when I do something wrong or more

particularly say something I shouldn't but without the bad intention. Is this actually helping the other person or giving the the

opportunity to transcend?