navysteve

From the Chapter To Wives on the very bottom of page 108 and continue on page 109.


"Some will moderate or stop altogether, and some will not. Of those who keep on, a good number will become true alcoholics after a while."

Now, I do not think the Big Book is the Alpha and Omega of alcoholism, but I do think this is overlooked and important. There is the belief that we are all Born as alcoholics. I have never believed this myself. I also see it in the heavy drinkers who show up in AA. Some people do not need to work the steps in order to get better.

Pinkcuda

And I believe a person can either be born with, or develop, Diabetes as a result of his diet.
Once you have it, you have it for life and there is no known cure for either.

AW2486

My Father was a full blown Alkie.. Died with 27 yrs sobriety.
My Mother was a chemically Dependent Pill popper. She now has over 20 yrs sobriety.
They actually met in a state hospital/treatment center in 1961.

I think I was born with the right genetics to become an alcoholic.

miss communicat

interesting.

i believe someone can be born with the genetic markers for alcoholism, in other words, "be an alcohoilic", but, that if that person does not drink alcohol, instead of identifying oneself as an alcoloic, they transfer the addictive tendencies to another aspect of life such as codependency, workaholism etc.

the underlying addictive tendencies that go along with the genetic markers for this disease include very specific measureable brain chemical respones to certain habitual acts and stimilui. An example is workaholism: at first, when a person overworks, chronically multitasks, and bases self worth on productivity and output, the brain releases pleasure chemicals. Overworking, overproducing and overdoing feels great at this point. Its working for the person.

In time, however, their brain produces stress and depression chemicals.

Similar to the active alcoholic who is forever chasing the glow (pleasure chemicals) of the first 2 drinks until, one day, drinking betrays the drinker and depression follows... sure as night follows day.

I have known many people who I believe were born addictive/alcoholic, but who had such deep needs to be in control and to be successful that drinking was not their poison. I am referring to family members, who share my genetics. I do fully realise that only they can decide whether or not they are alcoholic, so this is purely conjecture, but its my contribution to the thread.

Yes, I believe we can be born as alcohlics, AND I also believe that a person can acquire it through long term repetetive exposure to high levels of blood alcohol.

Dean62

The doctors and "Professionals" I have talked to ask about alcoholism in my family the same way they ask about cancer to see if I have a genetic predisposition.

Pinkuda nailed it, not all but some of us have superior inbred alcoholic genes.

Lily

I don't know, I have often wondered this myself. I am an alcoholic and addict. I know when I was younger I showed addict tendencies (overeating). However, i also wonder if it was just a lack of self control when it came to the food.

All I know is it doesn't matter to me anymore. I cannot have any at all, drugs, or alcohol. I don't know if there are predisposed markers on the brain or if perhaps they develop as a result of the alcoholism. Disease, full blown sin?

I guess it doesn't matter to me much anymore.

This has been kicked around quite a bit on these boards.

Sheila

Sugah

I believe alcoholics are born and that they "become." Me? I was born alcoholic. No doubt in my mind. On the other hand, I know lots of folks who describe a period of normal drinking, and along the way, they crossed a line and became alcoholic. I trust these folks. They have no reason to lie to me or anyone else (they're walking in the Sunlight today). I also know that they are alcoholic because they describe the same alcoholic characteristics I was born with.

So, as my buddy, Mike B. likes to say, doesn't matter how the donkey got in the ditch....

(Although, of course, it makes for good speculative conversation)

Peace & Love,
Sugah

Latte

Part nurture part nature. Meaning that some comes from genetics and some just comes from life. My adoptive father is an alcoholic, my birthfather was an addict/alcoholic/overeater etc. My birth-grandmother (mothers side) was an alcoholic, my uncle (on my birthmothers side) is doing life in California state. His third strike drug charge. Hopefully I've stopped the cycle.

Tommyh

Steve,another part of the book

and once having formed the habit and found they cannot break it
(Dr`s Opinion,ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS,First Ed.)

I believe I drank way too much for way too long.I was not born a alcoholic.
I do believe I had a mental problem as a kid,because I had a lot of shame,obsessions,fear,self pity and anxiety.When I drank 2 -16 ounce beers at age 13 it relieved whatever was going on in my head,and I drank for the sense of mental ease and comfort.I could control my drinking then.
My family was non drinkers by the way.

another thing I have been thinking on lately is a talk made by Father John Doe before he died in the 1960`s.He said he thought 80% of alcoholics in AA was neuortic,5% was physopaths,and 15% normal alcoholics.
He may have been on to something.If he was right,I would probally have fit in with the neuortic bunch

navysteve

Was there an all of the above option???

I personally don't bother if I was born or became one. My dad was, one of my brothers probably is. The rest seem ok.

I know I am one.

Tazman53

Steve I really feel that there is a genetic predisposition for a lot of us, I speak from experience on this, you see both of my grandfathers were alcoholics, my father was as well as my only brother and my only son, it seems to run in most of the males in my family.

BTW my father was a recovered alcoholic for 19 years and then was cured of his alcoholism when he passed. I never saw the man have a drink, I was 19 when he passed.

Can one develop alcoholism? Heck I do not know and to be honest I really don't think it matters.

Celebration1994

This question as it pertains to me is very complicated. I have 4 siblings...myself and 3 are alcoholics. All but my brother are in recovery. My parents did not drink and we only find 2 alcoholics for 2 previous generations. No booze in the house, so we all started our drinking careers at 17 years of age or older. Why..predisposition....I believe we were born alcoholics, but who knows for sure.

Clutch B

In my own life ... I believe that alcoholism is a symptom of a bigger emotional/mental/spiritual illness.

I believe that I was not born an alcoholic, but I became an alcoholic after I developed a physical/emotional/mental/spiritual dependence on alcohol to relieve my illness.

From the Doctor's Opinion in the Big Book:

And I felt restless, irritable and discontented ALL MY LIFE until I discovered the magic relief of alcohol. I was BORN restless, irritable and discontented. I think THAT is the illness. Perhaps that illness is genetic.

I wasn't born with the physical craving and mental obsession for alcohol -- it developed over time as I abused alcohol to relieve my original illness. Eventually the alcohol itself caused a secondary illness.

Plus, why else would I return to my "restless, irritable and discontented" state after quitting alcohol? In general, if you remove the cause of a symptom, the symptom disappears. This did not happen when I stopped drinking -- I was still "restless, irritable and discontented". This leads me to believe that drinking was not the cause of my problem. It was a temporary solution that became an additional problem.

This is why I need a spiritual program to help me. It's why I need help on a spiritual level. My problem does not exist in a bottle nor was it caused by the contents of a bottle -- it's integrated as part of my mental state. No wonder the BB says "unless this person can experience an entire psychic change there is very little hope of his recovery".

In short ... I don't believe I was born an alcoholic.

(Geez why didn't I just spit that out in the first place and leave it at that???)

Thanks for the topic ... it helped me to write that out.

findingout

As we say in NA, "we had to have something different and thought we had found it in drugs."

Thanks for this post Clutch. It helps me.

For me, the spiritual solution at the end of the 12 step path solves the problem of needing something different. Given the history of my particular family, I would have a hard time arguing against the idea that there may be something genetic in the way my body reacts to alcohol. Also, I have known people who are restless, irritable and discontented but do not abuse alcohol or other drugs, so it's not like alcoholics have some kind of exclusive right to these characteristics. I am not able to draw a hard line between what part of my illness is nature and what part is nurture. I do know that "just not drinking" was not the complete solution for me.

Tazman53

This paragraph out of "The Doctors Opinion" jumped right out at me the first time I read it, I had about a year sober before the reccollection of first drink became vividly clear and then what I bolded in the above paragraph was engraved in stone in my pointy little head.

A friend had stolen a 6 pack from somewhere, it wasn't even cold, but the 3 of us 10/11 year olds decided that we were adults and would have a beer like other men. Well that first sip tasted like crap but something special happened inside me, by the time I was half done with that first beer I was ready to have a second because the whole world seemed right to me, I felt for the first time I REALLY belonged!!!! I finished that one and popped the top on my second, my 2 friends said it tasted horrible and if I recall correctly they had a hard time finishing that first beer for them while I killed my second and then my 3rd.

That 6 pack was gone...... but man I was THERE!!!! I had found where I wanted/needed to be!!!!

Do not get me wrong, I was not out stealing beer the next day, but every opportunity I had to drink after that I did and when I did, I drank until I was back where I needed/wanted to be!

I remained friends with those 2, but I was the only one who drank like I did so I sought out new friends that drank like I did over the years.......... eventually after many years no one in my circle of friends drank like me so I drank in my garage by myself!

RufusACanal

This is another Chicken or Egg topic in my opinion; no disrepest intented, but for me it does not matter.

jimhere

Does it really matter if I was born one or became one? What matters is I are one.

That is the question to be concerned with. Am I or am I not alcoholic? I either am or I am not.

In working with others, valuable time can be wasted with questions like this. It is like alcoholics want to always know "why". I think we want to know why and figure it out so then maybe we can fix it.

One be honest with themselves by looking their own experience. Or one can try some controlled drinking and get a full knowledge of one's condition. Either way, it had best be found out.

navysteve

Absolutely Jim. I guess I should have spelled that out in the beginning. But I hear it all the time where I am, that you were born an alcoholic. Sorry if this seems like splitting hairs to some, I intended it only to spark a non-argumentative conversation

RufusACanal

The ever elusive "Why"; thank you, Jim. There is a time and a place for questioning "Why" and it is not when I am working on those necessities of recovery. "Why" is the perfect deflection and might be best cast as a hobby at least for me. "Why" is a luxury, when faced with mounting difficulties and a lack of conscious contact. "Why" supplants faith and provides a ready excuse for non-commitment.

Steve, good topic, dissent does not have to be negative.

CAPTAINZING2000

Our Genes / Our Choices . Science Sidebars | PBS

"A gene for . . ." - This is the kind of language that gets us in trouble. It's natural for people to want simple answers. Even scientists say things like, "Oh, we've located a gene for alcoholism." But speaking about it in this way is essentially incorrect. There is no gene for alcoholism, nor, in most cases, for cancer. A genetic susceptibility to alcoholism doesn't mean you have a genetic predisposition to drink, but that you have a gene that predisposes you to become addicted to a particular substance—in this case, alcohol. The gene is for the way an individual processes alcohol, not for the behavior of alcoholism. Furthermore, not all alcoholics have this gene; many people drink because of the role it plays in their social or psychological well being. When it comes to heroin, between a third and a fifth of users become addicted within their first couple of tries because of the way their body metabolizes the drug. These people possess a genetic marker for heroin addiction. Others without the marker may well become addicted, but their physiological response is different.


NOT SURE ABOUT ANY OF THIS. I DO KNOW, MY DRINKING HAD PROGRESSED IN THE LATTER DAYS OF MY DRINKING.

Does seem, there are varying degrees of alcoholism. I didn't drink every day. I do know many of the members in my home group did drink every day.

There are many functioning alcoholics. I worked with several thru the years.