Tommyh

Bill W wrote about bottoms and last gaspers in a few of his writings.In his own words,he says in the early days they dealt with low bottom cases only.Later on,they found they needed to raise the bottoms to include even younger people,who was scarcely more than potential alcoholics.Thus,they may be spared the last 10-15 years of hell we went thru.He said they obviously found it necessary to raise the bottom the rest of us had hit to the point where it would hit them. By going back in our own drinking histories, we could show that years before we realized it we were out of control, that our drinking even then was no mere habit, that it was indeed the beginning of a fatal progression.

I believe today,that causes much mis-understanding by a lot of people in AA.How many times have we heard or read comments on real alcoholics or hard drinkers/problem drinkers?How many times have we all got caught up in this discussion?Or in the discussion of who belongs in AA and who don`t?

I`m just curious,how do you all feel about Bill raising the bottom to include young,maybe even just potential alcoholics in AA?Did it help them or hurt AA?
Do they have the right to be in AA and get sober?
Do we have trouble today,discerning the difference between the 2?Do the potential alcoholics in AA cause confusion?

I`m going to think on this and come back later...have a good day everyone!

Carol87

This was a very sensitive issue for me for several years since I was a high bottomed drunk and felt that I didn't belong just because I had yet to do the 'yets' ... I skipped over the daily drinking, drinking alone at home, the black outs, the panic when I thought I would run out of supply before it could be replenished. Once I stopped looking at the differences and saw the similarities ... and learned that it isn't how much you drink or how often, it is what happens to you when you do drink ... did I start to feel a sense of belonging. Yes, today, I still have times when I struggle with this .... but I can't deny the change in my life.

Did I help me ... Yes. Do I hurt AA ... How could I?? "Do they have a right to be in AA and get sober?" Of course ... the ONLY requirement for membership is a DESIRE to stop drinking.

I'll be following this ... thanks for the post ....

AW2486

We had this discussion yesterday in a big book meeting. In the chapter "There is a solution" about the Real Alcoholic .. If your not a skid row drunk.. anybody can twist it so they are not a real alcoholic. They feel they have not lost everything. But if we just look at what alcohol does when it enters our bodies, For me its a no brainier. I am definitely a Real Alcoholic.

I for one am glad AA is not a bunch of skid row 50-60 yr old low bottom drunks. I came to AA when I was 18. That was back in 1986. Even back then there wasn't too many young people. Mostly people 30-60.

I was convinced I was a real alcoholic then as I do now. AA helped me. At first I was just a meeting goer and relied on the fellowship. But eventually I did go through the steps. I don't see anyway that I hurt AA..

Nice topic

Clutch B

I believe that when an AA group follows the 12 Traditions properly, it can't be harmed by any "certain kind" of alcoholic, whether low-bottom, high-bottom, court-ordered, etc.

I'm grateful that when I reached out for help, the hand of AA was there. It didn't stop to judge whether I deserved to be there. So I don't feel comfortable judging whether anyone else has the right to be there.

About a year ago, someone shared something unexpected in a meeting: "When my stock portfolio dropped 12% three years ago, I knew I really had a problem with alcohol, so I came here, and I've been sober ever since!"

I don't really care whether that guy was a high-bottom or low-bottom drunk, or even if he was a drunk. I'm there to stay sober and offer support to people who want it. I have no right to determine whether they deserve my support or qualify for it.

I'll bet that guy was glad that the AA group accepted him when he reached out for help three years before. Perhaps he was also, like me, on the verge of suicide before coming to AA. Or he could have been a total drama queen. But who cares? The point is, he came to AA because he felt that alcohol was destroying his life, and he needed help to stop drinking.

Did he hurt AA? I don't think so. He offered a different perspective from many other people in the room. I don't think that's a bad thing.

I just think it is dangerous to judge whether someone belongs there or not. "The only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking."

doorknob

IMO, a person is either an alcoholic or they're not. Qualifying the term with "real" is quite simply redundant.

Rob B

I've lost the power of choice in drinking. It will not be regained. So, I need to pursue the solution with the desperation of a drowning man. Folks who don't need the spiritual solution-psychic change in order to recover from alcoholism often come to AA, find their "niche" and stay. They don't need to do the program of alcoholics anonymous.

A guy like me walks in dying and hears, meetings, meetings, meetings, think it through, call before you drink, put your coin in your mouth and if it dissolves you can drink. This is useless ******** that almost killed me. I didn't know what I didn't know when I got here. Today I am clear as to what alcoholism is, and how to recover from it. Potential alcoholics or problem drinkers may not need the steps, the hopeless variety does. The problem occurs when the majority of folks in the meeting are these types of drinkers, it blurs the message and offers an easier softer way, a way that will not work for the real deal. There are times at certain meetings I feel like I am the only alcoholic in the room. I don't go to these meetings much anymore unless the spirit moves me to do so. They aren't much interested in what I have to say or offer. I say a prayer and get quiet before going in to these place "Father show me the man who was like me, show me who I can help".

The long and often overlooked form of our 3rd tradition states: "Our membership ought to include all who suffer from alcoholism". AA can't kick anyone out, but it is my hope that all who come to a meeting have an opportunity to hear the solution. Our book makes it clear, we cannot transmit something we haven't got. It is my responsibiity to make sure the man sitting next to me is in the right place, I don't tell anyone they are or are not alcoholic, I give them the information they need to determine for themselves. It amazes me the amount of resistance some folks have towards discovering they may not be a drunk, I don't get it.

navysteve

I came to AA via the court system. I came to my first AA meeting in 1983. The seed was planted. I was one of those guys who took what he wanted and left the rest. Thank God there was very little self righteous, pious ******** when I started coming around. When I was ready to work the steps as a way of life, I knew where to go. We have alot of sensationalists in AA. We make arguments where there should be none. We have folks who feel they need to protect the message. I prefer to trust God. That does not make me apathetic to the BS that goes on in meetings, it goes on just as much from the so-called purists as it does from the take what you want and do whatever crowd.

I was told when I got sober that I was not a real alcoholic. Spite kept me coming around for awhile. I shook when I ran out of booze, I cried like a baby when I ran out of booze. I saw things that weren't there ( while not taking LSD). Yet I was told I was not a real alcoholic. People played the Hard-assed AA game. It gets as many people killed as the your ok I'm ok, we're ok people. Trust in God, clean house, help others. That is the no middle of the road solution. How I apply that is as individual as all of us are. What level I come into AA is where I am at that moment. WHo is anyone to determine the level I have to be at? Those folks have nothing I want