Cathy31

Agreed...this is my experience too.

"Rarely have we seen a person fail who thoroughly followed our path"

It was true then, it's true now, in my experience.

Cath

AW2486

From the strength of a Higher Power I have not relapsed.

I think relapse happens in our mind way before alcohol enters our body.. Look at the examples in the big book..

Jim - had deep resentment about his job situation. Not happy he had to work for a company he once owned.

Fred - Thought he could fight alcoholism with self knowledge and will power.

I think if both of those guys had honestly gone through the steps, had the spiritual awaking and kept in fit spiritual condition, their outcomes would be much different.

I know very few that have relapsed after they have done the work and kept working the steps, going to meetings, and working with others.

As our recovery rate indicates .. they are in the minority.

IMHO ... I agree with Clarence Snyder after hearing him on a speaker tape .. I think we need to get back to 1 on 1 work (sponsorship) .. back to the program as it is in the big book. Last guy I sponsored went through out patient treatment after getting his 3rd DWI .. He said they didn't talk much about the steps at all.

jimhere

AW246,

That guy Jim had done the steps. If you read the story, it says that he came into contact with us (meaning the early members). They told him what they knew of alcoholism and and the answer they had had found. He made a beginning-meaning he did the steps. Jim had good sponsors. In those days when they worked with you, you did the steps or they didn't work with you. It goes on to say that he got his family back, went back to work, and all went well for a time. Sound familiar? I see that happen all the time, do a little work, settle for relief instead of freedom and get compacent. Jim probably did some stuff in the first nine steps, did a few amends, but He failed to enlarge his spiritual life. In other words, he didn't make it a way of living. Ebby told Bill that if he failed to perfect and enlarge his spiritual life through work and self-sacrifice, he couldn't survive the trials and low spots ahead. Doing the steps is not enlargening my spiritual life. Doing the steps is not doing the work. Doing the steps gets me fit to do the work.


Fred was just arrogant, never even believed himself alcoholic, much less accepted a spiritual remedy.
Jim

Big Book references from Alcoholics Anonymous, First Edition

The Jay Walker

"Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty."



"On the other hand—and strange as this may seem to those who do not understand—once a psychic change has occurred, the very same person who seemed doomed, who had so many problems he despaired of ever solving them, suddenly finds himself easily able to control his desire for alcohol, the only effort necessary being that required to follow a few simple rules.

sorry about the cut and paste, but I have never seen it summed up better than in those two paragraphs.

For me, I have had wide swings in the way I live my life in sobriety, I've had the times were I was heavily into meetings, service, higher power etc. and stayed sober.

I have also had times were I hardly gave my sobriety a second thought, and still remained sober.

of all the things suggested in the " program"

Steps, Higher power, meetings, service, traditions, sponsor, sponsorship, etc.

I can honestly say that I have used all of the above in my program, but none consitantly,

the only thing I can attribute my sobriety too, is that I was hurting bad enough when I came in, to totally give myself to this simple program,

and as a result I experienced the psychic change described in the doctors opinion.

lots of people say there are no rules in AA, and technically that is true.



Quotes are from the book
Alcoholics Anonymous...First Edition

scaredykat

I voted for "In my area the majority of people with long term sobriety have worked the steps".

I know quite a few people in my area with 20+ sobriety. My sponsor is one of them. From hearing them speak at speaker meetings they sound like they worked all the steps and are still working them and as one guy put it he "lives the steps" and not just works them. That's how I want to live.

Barb

Tommyh

Taz,another interesting question for this poll may have been
How many people do you know, who took the steps and had a spiritual awakening ,as the result ,who do not attend aa anymore and goes on to live good sober lives?

I know some like that
they are doing fine

jimhere

I think it is possible to transcend Alcoholics Anonymous. A man I once sponsored is sober fifteen years next month and hasn't attended a meeting in at least four years. He is doing well, has a discipline of prayer and meditation, gives back to his community, and is active in his church, in fact he is in ministerial school.

The first man I have ever sponsored is still sober, probably going on seventeen years now. He hasn't attended a meeting in years. He returned to the religion of his childhood.
Jim

jimhere

An addendum to my above post: I should have said that it is possible to transcend going to AA meetings because AA is not a place I go, it is a way I live.

I don't believe it is possible to transcend alcoholism though.
Jim

Freedom1990

I can only speak for myself. I drank again after four years because I quit listening to my sponsor, quit working the steps, and got myself involved in a very dysfunctional relationship.

I was still attending meetings, but that alone wasn't enough for me.

That was almost 18 years ago, and today I am convinced I have another drunk left in me, but not another sobering up.

RufusACanal

Anyone who believes that they have another drunk in them has not resolved the drink question. Why even contemplate the possiblity of the first drink if God has removed it?

Freedom1990

Respectfully, I disagree.

What I have is a daily reprieve from the disease of alcoholism, contingent on the maintenance of spiritual principles.

I don't sit around contemplating that first drink at all. My decision to go back out and drink again convinced me beyond a shadow of a doubt that I am an alcoholic, and for me, to drink is to die.

RufusACanal

Freedom, I appreciate your thinking, yet let's go a step further. Recovery from Alcoholism need not be the constant drama of the struggle to not take the first drink; surrender assures us of freedom and hope.

Granted, each day I wake, I am gifted by God to draw breath and the purpose of that breath is to serve by carrying the message of hope; this is the repreive. Why would I ever tell another suffering Alcoholic that I have the chance of another drunk left in me? Especially when the drink question can be solved forever? Who said that we are burdened by the shadow of a drink in the future; only those who have little faith in the power of something greater than themselves. If the drink question is solved why would this phrase pass my lips? Also, I was convinced of my Alcoholism years ago as an active Alcoholic. Alcoholics return to the drink because they are not done drinking. We each have a choice whether or not to hold on to the old idea that someday we may drink again like our fellows; those who surrender to something greater loss the obsession. It has happened in my life and many others here.

What is there to disagree with if everything in our lives is for the service of God to help another Alcoholic and that service can be rendered without the bondage of ever taking another drink?

Reach further than yourself, see beyond the pale. This greater Being did not limit us,we limit us.

Sheryl85

This is all rather interesting. Now I’d like to share my ES&H.

When working with others I feel it’s best to be honest with them. No, I don’t necessarily feel inclined to always tell them that I have another drink left in me. I already know that I have a daily reprieve from drinking based on my spiritual maintenance, but then again somebody out there might not have gotten that far in the program to understand that yet. And yes, I too feel we should give hope to the newcomer. But I feel that one way to do that is to let him or her know that this is a lifetime deal whether we use Alcoholics Anonymous or “transcend” it with something else.

If they are true alcoholics, like I am, they need to be reminded that we never become normal drinkers again. At the same time I feel it serves no good purpose to worry them unnecessarily by letting them think there is something wrong with them if they think about drinking. I have had thoughts from time to time, as well as many of my long time sober friends, about drinking. Granted, they are few and far between these days, but they still happen. Those thoughts will pop up out of no where. Like on a hot Texas summer day and you see that cold beer or a drink with condensation beaded up on the outside of the bottle or glass . . . I, myself, have thought, “I bet that would taste pretty good right about now,” but I don’t act on it. That, my friend, is a thought of a first drink. Or when my nerves are tighter than a tuned piano wire and I wish I had something to relax me or steady my nerves. I still remember where I can get it. So there’s another one of those thoughts. But it’s the maintenance Steps and especially Step Eleven that keeps me from acting on it. Why shouldn’t I share that information with the recovering as well? We’ve talked about it in meetings. We’ve had people who have wracked up a little time and been working the Steps say, “Thank goodness you said that! I thought I was doing something wrong or that I was abnormal or something.” At times like that my favorite expression is one that a fellow member expressed, “I can’t stop the birds from flying over my head, but I don’t have to let them make a nest in my hair.” I let them know that working our maintenance Steps helps to keep those birds from nesting in our hair, or rather, those thoughts from taking up residence in our minds. Don’t we tell the newcomer to read the Big Book? Doesn’t it talk about that at certain time the alcoholic has no effective mental defense against the first drink? Shouldn’t we also give them hope for those times as well? Shouldn't we remind them that the defense must come from a Higher Power (whether we've transended or not)? Shouldn't we let them know that once they find out how to defend against it they still have to maintain it? Well I let 'em know anyway. By talking about it now and then I do not feel as if it needlessly worries the newcomer nor lessens my program any. Instead I think that at it shows that even at Twenty-Three years I still have to work this thing on a daily basis. I still have to maintain my spiritual condition. I must never forget who and what I am. (I'm still an alcoholic and my life is still unmanagable by me!) I want to remember what nearly happened to me when I forgot that and let down my guard after thirteen years. Perhaps more than anything, I share it because I never want to forget that I will never become a normal drinker again and that Alcohol is still a subtle foe . . .

Anyway, that's all I wanted to share.

RufusACanal

Obviously, my words cause a stir and rightly so; you get what you settle for in life. Do I suggest dishonesty, do I suggest anything but the principles. One would think I had ask someone to do the impossible, when in fact does not God do the impossible daily?

I am surprised by your anger Sheryl. What riles you so, that I believe Alcoholics who work the Steps, find God do not have to fear the first drink and that they recover? By the way, transcend means to move on and in this new life, I refuse to wallow in the misery of yesterday, though I have the right as much as anyone.

fraankie

no offense
just a defense

this poll is about as slanted as a pyramid
on all sides
only diffence is no point to it

i've, like, been around a lot, all over
lots of phone numbers, AA friends, meetings, meetings, meetings
and
more meetings

i am a inquisite chap, matey
but
i can't answer your poll
i know a lot with long term sobriety
chronic relapsers
slow recovery members
1st step, 2nd step, etc, i'm done
but
there is the meeting after the meeting, phonecalls
and
"i have asked"

what step you on?
what did you do for the 3rd step, etc?
can you sell me your 4th step? (lol)
how do i work the ___ step?

i got an answer that kept me coming
but
there is "you don't take someone's inventory"
so
never really clued in to your survey
then
who moves
who makes different meetings?
etc

and
then there is the 11th step stoners
"God's will be done"
but
hey, it's his will i take nyquill tonight for my insomnia
and
quaint addictions like reese's buttercups, coffee, scripts, shoppinggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg...
and
some, in and out of the program will do anything for momey

so
my own poll

do you work the steps to the best of your ability so you don't relapes?
AA-ok

best
frankie

Sheryl85

I wasn't offended nor distrubed by what has been written by anyone. I just wanted to share some of my thoughts. I'm not sure why anyone would get upset by this topic. It's good and healthy exchanging of ideas and experiences . . . or so I thought. What I do in my program may not work for you, but it may help someone else. I think that that is what God has in store for each of us today.

Peace be with you . . .

lizw

In my town the longer I have been in AA, the more people I have seen leave, and a lot of them 'have worked the steps'. Some of them could have probably quoted more of the BB than I could and there has also been the odd one who sponsored more people in the time they were around, than I have in the 10 years have been sober.

I think there are a few reasons people become 'chronic relapsers'
- the stop working the steps - it's a day by day thing. Not a one off event.
- the still have secrets
- they have problems other than alcohol that become very obvious when they stop drinking, but they are not prepared to deal with them. For example an eating disorder, sex addiction, gambling addiction, mental illness etc..

I know there was one guy in my area, who died eventually but he must have been sponsored by at least half the area in his time trying to get sober. He did everything, everyone told him. But would still end up drunk and/or wasted on something. Think the most he ever got up was 3 years and this was when he was working with recovering alcoholics/addicts in an actual residential program type place with another AA member.

Strangely enough, I think what killed him was the fact that he did do everything, everyone told him to do. He had no ability to ask himself, is what this person telling me a sane thing to do? Does this person have the kind of recovery I want? What are they basing their suggestions on? How do they live their lives?

I think his chronic people pleasing killed him. Strange but true. In the AA Big Book, it says that "no human power could relieve our alcoholism" and all AA members are only human, it is easy to forget this.

Tazman53

Rufus I posted it here for 2 reasons, one it is an AA question, and two I did not want to cause a stir by posting it else where. I wanted the results of the poll to be "SEMI" accurate as a result I posted it here.

Best that is not what the poll was meant to say, it was meant to simply show that one improves thier odds of staying sober and being happy by not only working the steps but continuing to apply them to all thier affairs. This is what has been my experience and also the experience I have heard others share in my area.

Bballdad I would not be surprised at all if there were quit a few that have done as you said..... Dr. Bob mentioned a woman who got sober via AA and the steps and then moved on to maintainung her spiritual condition through religion.

My apologies to all that feel this poll was skewed, I felt it was not, but who the heck am I? LOL I have apreciated most of the replies to this poll.

One problem with polls of any sort on any topic is limitations. Here we are limited to 6 questions, I would have liked to have offered more options, but I was limited to 6.

All I was seeking was others experience in thier area/area's that was it. I was not looking for some great revelation, simply input that I and others may be able to use.