Working Step 2 And 3
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 773
Working Step 2 And 3
I often here that one must "work the steps" in AA. How does one "work" steps 2 and 3? I will be getting a sponser soon and maybe look to him for answers. I don't get how these steps aren't religious in nature. I mean steps 1,4,5 are action steps which I can understand. Steps 2 and 3 are very vague to me. Can I still attend AA if I do not believe in these steps? I am very interested in your replies,
Tiburon
In And Out Of Sobriety Since 2003
Tiburon
In And Out Of Sobriety Since 2003
problem with authority
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 870
I believe (heh) that believing in the steps and believing in God (as religions understand Him) are two different things.
As an alcoholic, I suffer from chronic self-sufficiency and terminal uniqueness. That means that I believe no one can possibly understand me and what I am going through and, therefore, that no one nor thing can help me. I do it all on my own.
For me, the faith required in step 2 can be boiled down to this: faith through action, or, I believe that I can get better by taking an action that, at this moment, seems like it couldn't possibly help me (or that I fear). You can call it something else: not having the willingness to do something but doing it anyway because your faith is growing, even little by little. Walking through fear. Praying (meditating) for the willingness if that's all you can manage.
Some examples of this faith through action:
going to meetings
going to more meetings even though during my first one I sat there feeling like an idiot and that everyone else but me had this figured out
introducing yourself to people
getting phone numbers
giving phone numbers
picking up the phone
asking someone to be my sponsor
agreeing to let someone be my sponsor
taking a service commitment to make coffee
not obsessing about what I'm going to share before I raise my hand and open my mouth
giving someone a ride
telling myself, "I won't drink today...maybe tomorrow, but definitely not today"...no matter how bad it gets
The more I do things I'm afraid of doing or reluctant to do, the more my faith grows. Faith in what almost doesn't matter.
-M
As an alcoholic, I suffer from chronic self-sufficiency and terminal uniqueness. That means that I believe no one can possibly understand me and what I am going through and, therefore, that no one nor thing can help me. I do it all on my own.
For me, the faith required in step 2 can be boiled down to this: faith through action, or, I believe that I can get better by taking an action that, at this moment, seems like it couldn't possibly help me (or that I fear). You can call it something else: not having the willingness to do something but doing it anyway because your faith is growing, even little by little. Walking through fear. Praying (meditating) for the willingness if that's all you can manage.
Some examples of this faith through action:
going to meetings
going to more meetings even though during my first one I sat there feeling like an idiot and that everyone else but me had this figured out
introducing yourself to people
getting phone numbers
giving phone numbers
picking up the phone
asking someone to be my sponsor
agreeing to let someone be my sponsor
taking a service commitment to make coffee
not obsessing about what I'm going to share before I raise my hand and open my mouth
giving someone a ride
telling myself, "I won't drink today...maybe tomorrow, but definitely not today"...no matter how bad it gets
The more I do things I'm afraid of doing or reluctant to do, the more my faith grows. Faith in what almost doesn't matter.
-M
Originally Posted by tiburon88 
I often here that one must "work the steps" in AA. How does one "work" steps 2 and 3? I will be getting a sponser soon and maybe look to him for answers. I don't get how these steps aren't religious in nature. I mean steps 1,4,5 are action steps which I can understand. Steps 2 and 3 are very vague to me. Can I still attend AA if I do not believe in these steps? I am very interested in your replies,
Tiburon
In And Out Of Sobriety Since 2003
Tiburon
In And Out Of Sobriety Since 2003
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 386
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Find what works best for you.....and work it.
Seren
Find what works best for you.....and work it.
Seren
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,002
The best advice is take one step like you take one day. At a time! Chapter 4 is We Agnostics (and Step Two). When you and your sponsor are at this step, I suggest you listen. Read Chapter 4 carefully. The answer to your questions is in the book. Step Three is yet a concern of yours if you have not done Step Two. If you are having trouble with Step Two, revert to Step One.
Willingness, Thoroughness, Honesty, and an Open Mind are essential to successful recovery.
Easy does it!
Tom
Willingness, Thoroughness, Honesty, and an Open Mind are essential to successful recovery.
Easy does it!
Tom
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Southern New Hampshire
Posts: 746
start with #1
Tib,
It is good to see you seeking.
Go back to step one. The importance of this foundation is critical. Working through the Big Book find yourself where you are at currently. Yeah, it was written in 1939, but it will meet you where you are at right now.Find out what it means to be alcoholic, a disease of body, mind, and spirit.
Read the Dr. Opinion, is this you? Do you experience craving, ever planned on having two drinks and ended up downing a 30 pack? Craving explains a lot of our behaviors and is a gauge to measure powerlessness.
Read about, Jim, Fred, and the Jay walker, this describes the mental obsession, why it is our mind brings us back to booze even though we know there will be hell to pay. Is this you? This describes the insanity, and how defenseless we are, reconcile your experience with their descriptions. Do you see yourself?
Read page 52, the bedevilments are describing aspects of the spiritual malady, are you experiencing unmanagability in any of these areas? Restless, irritable and discontent?
At this point if you have set aside what you think you know, you will have found your truth. If you are like me, it will really upset you before it sets you free.
Finally, read pages 63-64. It describes what the problem is, who caused the problem, what the penalty ultimately will be, and what will remove the problem.
If you have a vital 1st step experience based on truth, 2 and 3 will not be an issue for you.
It is good to see you seeking.
Go back to step one. The importance of this foundation is critical. Working through the Big Book find yourself where you are at currently. Yeah, it was written in 1939, but it will meet you where you are at right now.Find out what it means to be alcoholic, a disease of body, mind, and spirit.
Read the Dr. Opinion, is this you? Do you experience craving, ever planned on having two drinks and ended up downing a 30 pack? Craving explains a lot of our behaviors and is a gauge to measure powerlessness.
Read about, Jim, Fred, and the Jay walker, this describes the mental obsession, why it is our mind brings us back to booze even though we know there will be hell to pay. Is this you? This describes the insanity, and how defenseless we are, reconcile your experience with their descriptions. Do you see yourself?
Read page 52, the bedevilments are describing aspects of the spiritual malady, are you experiencing unmanagability in any of these areas? Restless, irritable and discontent?
At this point if you have set aside what you think you know, you will have found your truth. If you are like me, it will really upset you before it sets you free.
Finally, read pages 63-64. It describes what the problem is, who caused the problem, what the penalty ultimately will be, and what will remove the problem.
If you have a vital 1st step experience based on truth, 2 and 3 will not be an issue for you.
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 773
Yeah I relate a lot to the stories and Bill's story. The compulsion to drink has been a constant thing. I said before that I managed to stop the "hard" drugs and not really craved the cocaine/heroin. However, the alcohol is another story. I enjoy the NA book more because it was written in the '80s.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,002
Patience. We all had the shortcoming of impatience. I wanted all the knowledge, sobriety, and serenity that I saw other members have when I was a newcomer, and I wanted it RIGHT NOW!!! It takes time, but when I slowed down, I understood everything a lot better.
Tom
Tom
Life the gift of recovery!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 7,061
Originally Posted by lovingseren
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-programs.html
Find what works best for you.....and work it.
Seren
Find what works best for you.....and work it.
Seren
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by FightingIrish
As an alcoholic, I suffer from chronic self-sufficiency and terminal uniqueness. .
-M
Too true.
Step 2 and 3 are very simple.
"I came to believe that Alcoholics Anonymous can return me to sanity."
By simply looking around you can see what the program has done for others.
Check step 12, it says "As a result of these steps" meaning very few people actually have a spiritual experience of the burning bush variety.
Focus on the similarities instead of the differences, dont be discouraged about the little parts and GET THAT SPONSOR NOW!
1 bite&all resistance crumbles
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: IRELAND
Posts: 2,208
I use the NA step working guide - which is actually that. This is an example of STEP 1 can find it here..
Step 2
This guide is amazing, God Given and I'm so grateful for it.
For me I needed something as thorough and rigorous to really WORK The steps!
Well done for checking it out Tiburon!
Cathy31
x
Step 2
This guide is amazing, God Given and I'm so grateful for it.
For me I needed something as thorough and rigorous to really WORK The steps!
Well done for checking it out Tiburon! Cathy31
x
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,876
Tib, your question was can I still attend aa...of course you can and IMO should. Attending aa helped me get a footing on that slippery slope....gave me the ability to step away from the cliff...I don't go for religious conversion...that's the part I leave....I take what helps me...meetings remind me why I don't drink...lol...as if I could forget the horror...Give it another go...get stronger...change your routine and stay safe.
1 bite&all resistance crumbles
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: IRELAND
Posts: 2,208
Oh and your initial question ; can you attend AA even if you don't do/believe in the steps - of course you can!
The only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking.
The only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking.
Follow Directions!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
Tib all of the steps are as easy or as complex as we make them, my sponsor stayed in my case for a good while for me taking the simple and making it complex.
For me one of the ways I got by this was to ask myself some simple questions:
Are there a powers greater then me?
Well I knew that the power of alcohol was greater then me once I had a single drink and when I looked around the rooms of AA I saw an awful lot of folks who at one time were in the same boat as me and they had come to beleive that a Power greater then themselfs and alcohol could restore them to sanity.
At that point all I had to do was beleive that they had found a Power greater then them selfs or alcohol that restored them to sanity. Once I beleived that I had no choice but to come to beleive that there was a Power of some sort that was capable of doing the same for me.
Read the step and do only what it says to do.
Do you beleive that a power greater then you can restore you to sanity?
The step does not say that you need to know this powers name or even what it is, it does not say that that power is found in any religion or any other entity, the only thing it asks is "Do you beleive there is a Power greater then you and alcohol?"
If you can answer yes to the question "Do you beleive there is a Power greater then you and alcohol?" then you are good to go, that is a beginning which is all we need, something, anything that we can beleive in.
Tib you remind me so much of myself, I kept looking for things written inbetween the lines, looking for that hidden agenda hidden in the book. Things became far easier for me when I quit reading inbetween the lines and trying to find that hidden agenda and simply accepted that this is a simple program for very complex people.
I have found that there is no secret room where a secret religion is practiced by the old timers, most of the old timers in my area have not set foot in a church in years except for weddings or funerals yet they have a spiritual connection with thier HP which gives them the serenity and peace we all seek.
Tib anyone who has worked the steps can tell you flat out from the expereince of working the steps there is no religion, spirituality yes, religion no!
If any one in AA tells you there is religion in AA ask them if they have worked the steps!!!!!
Yes there are people who get religous in AA, but I sure have not, nor has my sponsor who has over 19 years sober and most of the other AA's I know are not religous.
For me one of the ways I got by this was to ask myself some simple questions:
Are there a powers greater then me?
Well I knew that the power of alcohol was greater then me once I had a single drink and when I looked around the rooms of AA I saw an awful lot of folks who at one time were in the same boat as me and they had come to beleive that a Power greater then themselfs and alcohol could restore them to sanity.
At that point all I had to do was beleive that they had found a Power greater then them selfs or alcohol that restored them to sanity. Once I beleived that I had no choice but to come to beleive that there was a Power of some sort that was capable of doing the same for me.
Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
Do you beleive that a power greater then you can restore you to sanity?
The step does not say that you need to know this powers name or even what it is, it does not say that that power is found in any religion or any other entity, the only thing it asks is "Do you beleive there is a Power greater then you and alcohol?"
If you can answer yes to the question "Do you beleive there is a Power greater then you and alcohol?" then you are good to go, that is a beginning which is all we need, something, anything that we can beleive in.
Tib you remind me so much of myself, I kept looking for things written inbetween the lines, looking for that hidden agenda hidden in the book. Things became far easier for me when I quit reading inbetween the lines and trying to find that hidden agenda and simply accepted that this is a simple program for very complex people.
I have found that there is no secret room where a secret religion is practiced by the old timers, most of the old timers in my area have not set foot in a church in years except for weddings or funerals yet they have a spiritual connection with thier HP which gives them the serenity and peace we all seek.
Tib anyone who has worked the steps can tell you flat out from the expereince of working the steps there is no religion, spirituality yes, religion no!
If any one in AA tells you there is religion in AA ask them if they have worked the steps!!!!!
Yes there are people who get religous in AA, but I sure have not, nor has my sponsor who has over 19 years sober and most of the other AA's I know are not religous.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,876
Tib, I will impart this message to you....according to Wilson himself....
At the moment we are trying to put our lives in order. But this is not an end in itself. Our real purpose is to fit ourselves to be of maximum service to God...
The Big Book, 1st Edition, William G. Wilson
So if anyone in aa tells you aa is not religious they are mis-informed.
However...You need support to help you begin your path to sobriety...I go so I can hear about the yets...to remain focused on the real reason I joined....To become free from my addiction to alcohol. Simply allow yourself to focus on YOUR real purpose...
At the moment we are trying to put our lives in order. But this is not an end in itself. Our real purpose is to fit ourselves to be of maximum service to God...
The Big Book, 1st Edition, William G. Wilson
So if anyone in aa tells you aa is not religious they are mis-informed.
However...You need support to help you begin your path to sobriety...I go so I can hear about the yets...to remain focused on the real reason I joined....To become free from my addiction to alcohol. Simply allow yourself to focus on YOUR real purpose...
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,876
LOL Taz....again with what step I am on....funny again this has NOTHING to do with the OP question....Can I attend aa if I don't believe...
Can you explain what Wilson meant? What is your interpertation of Our real purpose is to fit ourselves to be of maximum service to God...
Can you explain what Wilson meant? What is your interpertation of Our real purpose is to fit ourselves to be of maximum service to God...
Silly Rabbit
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 956
my sponsor told me to keep it simple - there's god. there's me. i'm not god. easy enough.
GOD is such a loaded word, though. if you look it up in the dictionary, there are several possible meanings. the one i identify the most with is "any deified person or object." i call my HP 'god', but mostly because it takes too long to say "god, the universe, or whatever intagible force there is driving all these lives." i also call my HP the big guy in the sky, and that's because (i told rob b. this before) i see the big guy as part intangible universal flow of energy and part gary larson far side god - sandals and a big flowing beard.
i'm not religious at all. i like reading buddhist meditation books, i like learning about different saints, i like anything that folks believe in that makes them better people than worse. i say the 3rd step prayer every morning because i fully believe that the big guy (or the universe, or whatever rush of life force guides us) has my back and wants me to be happy, joyous, and free. with that said, turning my will and my life over to the care of something bigger than me leaves me free to live without fear and without trying to control everything that's out of my power (people, places things).
it's one day at a time. when you get that sponsor, share these concerns with him and see what he has to say.
best of luck.
GOD is such a loaded word, though. if you look it up in the dictionary, there are several possible meanings. the one i identify the most with is "any deified person or object." i call my HP 'god', but mostly because it takes too long to say "god, the universe, or whatever intagible force there is driving all these lives." i also call my HP the big guy in the sky, and that's because (i told rob b. this before) i see the big guy as part intangible universal flow of energy and part gary larson far side god - sandals and a big flowing beard.
i'm not religious at all. i like reading buddhist meditation books, i like learning about different saints, i like anything that folks believe in that makes them better people than worse. i say the 3rd step prayer every morning because i fully believe that the big guy (or the universe, or whatever rush of life force guides us) has my back and wants me to be happy, joyous, and free. with that said, turning my will and my life over to the care of something bigger than me leaves me free to live without fear and without trying to control everything that's out of my power (people, places things).
it's one day at a time. when you get that sponsor, share these concerns with him and see what he has to say.
best of luck.
where the light is
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,763
"With few exceptions our members find that they have tapped an unsuspected inner resource which they presently identify with their own conception of a Power greater than themselves. Most of us think this awareness of a Power greater than ourselves is the essence of spiritual experience."
Hi tiburon88,
I think that it is great that you are asking questions and getting a sponsor. What really helped me with steps 2,3 was Appendix 2 to the Big Book, mainly the above quotation. I also had to keep it simple, not overthink it, not get stalled on this.
Initially, I looked within myself, at my past - what made me stronger instead of trying to accomplish things on self-will alone. In my case, I looked to my late father (I would think about him when I needed extra strength to get through the day) and my young children (their unconditional love & trust in me, gives me strength). To start, this represented my HP and I was able to turn my will over to this "inner resource" - in other words, to trust that I could rely on this inner strength to get me through the day. My sponsor told me that this was more than enough to move on to step 4. My HP eventually expanded to include everything that makes me stronger than I am on my own, spiritual to me. Best wishes. D
Hi tiburon88,
I think that it is great that you are asking questions and getting a sponsor. What really helped me with steps 2,3 was Appendix 2 to the Big Book, mainly the above quotation. I also had to keep it simple, not overthink it, not get stalled on this.
Initially, I looked within myself, at my past - what made me stronger instead of trying to accomplish things on self-will alone. In my case, I looked to my late father (I would think about him when I needed extra strength to get through the day) and my young children (their unconditional love & trust in me, gives me strength). To start, this represented my HP and I was able to turn my will over to this "inner resource" - in other words, to trust that I could rely on this inner strength to get me through the day. My sponsor told me that this was more than enough to move on to step 4. My HP eventually expanded to include everything that makes me stronger than I am on my own, spiritual to me. Best wishes. D
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