Closed AA meeting and NA's?????
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
Closed AA meeting and NA's?????
Had a guy after a meeting come up to me last night with a problem....... he asked me what I thought of an addict at a Closed AA meeting? He said "She didn't say she was an alcoholic!" I told him I knew she was an addict, that I personally had no issue with her being there and that we should bring it up at the next group conscious, he seemed okay with that.
Okay now here is where I am seeking guidance/opinions. I spoke to my grandsponsors wife after he spoke with me about this and she said she is going to need to think on it, she said she may talk to her and suggest she state she is an addict that does not want to drink today or something to that effect. I suggested that we hold off on any action until we have a group conscious, she agreed.
Okay here is my take on it, we can go one of 2 ways, we can vote to make it an open meeting (We just voted to make it a closed meeting about 3 months ago!), or we can keep it closed, but allow NA members to attend?
Okay now there is one part of the Traditions that would lead one to not keep the meeting closed.
If it is a closed AA meeting, allowing an addict, not alcoholic to attend would not be sticking with the primary purpose.
Okay now I look at this tradition:
I ask myself would my HP want to exclude an addict because they are not an alcoholic? My HP would have me find a way to allow her to stay.
Okay now I look at this tradition:
She desires to stay clean & sober! She wants to not drink.
Okay now I look at this tradition:
Here is an opening where I see we could if the group wishes to keep the meeting closed and allow an addict in we could work with. I was thinking the chair could announce at the beginning of every meeting some thing to the effect of:
"Welcome to the "Over The Hump" groups Wednesday night closed discussion meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous that is open to NA members as well."
The above would be the group exercising its autonomity with out affecting other groups or A.A. as a whole.
This whole issue would be a mute point if we had an NA meeting every night, we don't. This lady has 7 months, her husband is in the program as well, he does not attend this meeting.
What do you all think?
Okay now here is where I am seeking guidance/opinions. I spoke to my grandsponsors wife after he spoke with me about this and she said she is going to need to think on it, she said she may talk to her and suggest she state she is an addict that does not want to drink today or something to that effect. I suggested that we hold off on any action until we have a group conscious, she agreed.
Okay here is my take on it, we can go one of 2 ways, we can vote to make it an open meeting (We just voted to make it a closed meeting about 3 months ago!), or we can keep it closed, but allow NA members to attend?
Okay now there is one part of the Traditions that would lead one to not keep the meeting closed.
Five—Each group has but one primary purpose—to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers.
Okay now I look at this tradition:
Two—For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority—a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern.
Okay now I look at this tradition:
Three—The only requirement for A.A. membership is a desire to stop drinking.
Okay now I look at this tradition:
Four—Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or A.A. as a whole.
"Welcome to the "Over The Hump" groups Wednesday night closed discussion meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous that is open to NA members as well."
The above would be the group exercising its autonomity with out affecting other groups or A.A. as a whole.
This whole issue would be a mute point if we had an NA meeting every night, we don't. This lady has 7 months, her husband is in the program as well, he does not attend this meeting.
What do you all think?
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
hi hon.
over here in my neck o the woods - closed meant closed meant closed.
meant limited to the discussion of alcohol, by alcoholics amongst alcoholics.
an' datt ... meant pretty much datt.
over here in my neck o the woods - closed meant closed meant closed.
meant limited to the discussion of alcohol, by alcoholics amongst alcoholics.
an' datt ... meant pretty much datt.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
How could this woman share on her problem with alcohol
if she has no problem?
I've tried several times to sponsor members who were in
the same situation as she is. I could not relate nor
could they relate to me.
That's not giveing you an answer...
only sharing my experience
Why does she not attend open meetings?
if she has no problem?
I've tried several times to sponsor members who were in
the same situation as she is. I could not relate nor
could they relate to me.
That's not giveing you an answer...
only sharing my experience
Why does she not attend open meetings?
problem with authority
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 870
I am probably too new to have an authoritative opinion on this (but that's never stopped me before...)
I can only share my experience, which is that recently, at a closed meeting I have just begun to pull away from, we had an addict/alcoholic who was just out of rehab show up. Now, that's all well and good, but she had with her an addict friend (seven months clean) who was there for support and who announced such but did not say he was an alcoholic.
I could see some of the "viewers with alarm" squirming in their seats and giving each other strained looks, but I thank God none of them said anything.
I am trying to think this issue through and visualize what it would mean if this rule were not enforced at all. I suppose a room full of heroin addicts sharing about their experiences injecting drugs would not exactly be what I had in mind in going to an AA meeting. But I fail to see the benefit of enforcing these rules for such one-off cases. I would rather see it used as a helping/teaching moment than a strident defence of the group. But I am willing to hear other perspectives.
I can only share my experience, which is that recently, at a closed meeting I have just begun to pull away from, we had an addict/alcoholic who was just out of rehab show up. Now, that's all well and good, but she had with her an addict friend (seven months clean) who was there for support and who announced such but did not say he was an alcoholic.
I could see some of the "viewers with alarm" squirming in their seats and giving each other strained looks, but I thank God none of them said anything.
I am trying to think this issue through and visualize what it would mean if this rule were not enforced at all. I suppose a room full of heroin addicts sharing about their experiences injecting drugs would not exactly be what I had in mind in going to an AA meeting. But I fail to see the benefit of enforcing these rules for such one-off cases. I would rather see it used as a helping/teaching moment than a strident defence of the group. But I am willing to hear other perspectives.
No more merlot, more mamma
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hills, Ct
Posts: 2,139
Taz, I attend a closed BB meeting. It's my home group. Call us crazy, but 80 percent are alkies, 15 percent identify as alkie/addict, and we have one woman who is Alanon and identifies as "friend of Lois W". Since this meeting is recovery based, there is not a lot of "user-a-logs" anywhere..so it's a room full of folks trying to stay sober and clean.
I'd hold the group conscious and allow addicts in. What are you going to do? Tell em "oops, sorry, we can't help". That would bother me..
Karen
I'd hold the group conscious and allow addicts in. What are you going to do? Tell em "oops, sorry, we can't help". That would bother me..
Karen
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
Thank God AA did not turn me away when I first got clean/sober. I wasn't sure I had a problem with alcohol, but I was willing to keep an open mind. I did not openly discuss my drugging at the meetings as it was always stated to keep our shares limited to our problems as they relate to alcohol.
After relapsing on alcohol, I was convinced I was an alcoholic too.
AA is all we have in our small town.
After relapsing on alcohol, I was convinced I was an alcoholic too.
AA is all we have in our small town.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pugetopolis
Posts: 2,384
Closed meetings are for people seeking help for THEIR drinking problem, which would mean that Al-Anons should not attend a closed AA meeting.
As for the addicts, if they have a history of alcoholism, by all means they are welcome. I would suggest reading the pamphlet "Problems Other Than Alcohol." Bill spells it out pretty clearly.
Jim
As for the addicts, if they have a history of alcoholism, by all means they are welcome. I would suggest reading the pamphlet "Problems Other Than Alcohol." Bill spells it out pretty clearly.
Jim
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
If she started sharing things about drugging I could not relate at all, she so far has limited her shares to steps and questions about the steps. In this regards I have yet to hear a single difference between NA & AA steps nor the solution.
I only have 18 months so maybe I am a bit niave, but I see no difference between the NA & AA solution or the steps except step one.
I only have 18 months so maybe I am a bit niave, but I see no difference between the NA & AA solution or the steps except step one.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Newton Iowa
Posts: 157
IMHO, closed is closed. We cant save the world.
We had a few NAs coming to our closed meetings and everyone said let them come they don't bother anyone. Shortly after we had a couple Alanons in the meeting as well. One day an Incest Survivor showed up and read their preamble. This was not an AA meeting anymore it was a self help group.
Closed is closed.
We had a few NAs coming to our closed meetings and everyone said let them come they don't bother anyone. Shortly after we had a couple Alanons in the meeting as well. One day an Incest Survivor showed up and read their preamble. This was not an AA meeting anymore it was a self help group.
Closed is closed.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 170
I believe that at one time A.A. finally dropped all its membership regulations based on what is read in Tradition 3 the long form. However groups seem to be able to change give or take.
The stories in the Big Book all four versions mention doing drugs as well as drinking. Someone who primarily used alcohol can not relate to someone who used drugs and someone who has used drugs cannot relate to some who just drinks.
Selfishness-self centeredness! That we think is the root of our troubles. We were driven by a hundred forms of fear, self delusion, self seeking, resentment, and self pity.
It’s not that I smoke crack, or guzzle vodka, it’s that I needed to get rid of all these problems. So what is the real problem, lack of power! I needed to get God in my life and work the 12 steps.
I’d let her attend and let God work it out; to be helpful is my only aim. Who am I to deny someone something that was so freely given to me?
The stories in the Big Book all four versions mention doing drugs as well as drinking. Someone who primarily used alcohol can not relate to someone who used drugs and someone who has used drugs cannot relate to some who just drinks.
Bottles were but a symbol.
Selfishness-self centeredness! That we think is the root of our troubles. We were driven by a hundred forms of fear, self delusion, self seeking, resentment, and self pity.
It’s not that I smoke crack, or guzzle vodka, it’s that I needed to get rid of all these problems. So what is the real problem, lack of power! I needed to get God in my life and work the 12 steps.
I’d let her attend and let God work it out; to be helpful is my only aim. Who am I to deny someone something that was so freely given to me?
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,697
Personally - I respect both NA and Alanon.
I would not force myself into one of their closed meetings. I am at meetings to contribute - not to save my own arse. If this girl is hurting so bad and gets relief from attending the closed AA meeting (and refuses to identify as someone who suffers from alcoholism) - why don't one of the group skip the meeting, take her out to coffee and sit and talk one on one with her?
She'd probably get a lot more out of it. Heck, even take a BB with you and just change some of the words like CA did for so many years.
Closed is Closed is Closed - what part are we confused about?
I would not force myself into one of their closed meetings. I am at meetings to contribute - not to save my own arse. If this girl is hurting so bad and gets relief from attending the closed AA meeting (and refuses to identify as someone who suffers from alcoholism) - why don't one of the group skip the meeting, take her out to coffee and sit and talk one on one with her?
She'd probably get a lot more out of it. Heck, even take a BB with you and just change some of the words like CA did for so many years.
Closed is Closed is Closed - what part are we confused about?
Its_me_jen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Salina, Ks
Posts: 8,547
I won't pretend to know or understand the details of AA you've mentioned, Taz. Here's what came to my mind.
I was a binge drinker, never a daily drinker. When I hear someone talk about having a drink in the morning so they could function and then another with lunch an so on... I cannot relate. A daily drinker probably has a hard time relating with the way a binge drinker drinks. So, I was thinking ...... may be there should be a whole bunch of different meetings: AA for the daily drinker, AA for the binge drinker, NA for pot smokers, NA for crack addicts, NA for cocaine addicts ..... and so on. That's not possible or even logical.
Some other things that ran through my mind:
Can an alcoholic go to an NA meeting? Does an alcoholic want to stay sober from only alcohol? Have you ever gotten great ESH from a recovering drug addict here at SR that's helped you?
I don't regularly go to AA meetings but the one's I've been to have helped me through a bad night or rough time. If I had been asked to leave for some reason, I cannot imagine what that would have done to me.
I do understand the need for closed meetings. I don't pretend to know the answer to this or have a great understanding of the inner workings/traditions etc. of AA. I just can't imagine, as a human being, turning someone away who is asking for help.
Bottom line, aren't we all just a bunch of addicts who can share our experience, strength and hope and possibly help others with their recovery?
I was a binge drinker, never a daily drinker. When I hear someone talk about having a drink in the morning so they could function and then another with lunch an so on... I cannot relate. A daily drinker probably has a hard time relating with the way a binge drinker drinks. So, I was thinking ...... may be there should be a whole bunch of different meetings: AA for the daily drinker, AA for the binge drinker, NA for pot smokers, NA for crack addicts, NA for cocaine addicts ..... and so on. That's not possible or even logical.
Some other things that ran through my mind:
Can an alcoholic go to an NA meeting? Does an alcoholic want to stay sober from only alcohol? Have you ever gotten great ESH from a recovering drug addict here at SR that's helped you?
I don't regularly go to AA meetings but the one's I've been to have helped me through a bad night or rough time. If I had been asked to leave for some reason, I cannot imagine what that would have done to me.
I do understand the need for closed meetings. I don't pretend to know the answer to this or have a great understanding of the inner workings/traditions etc. of AA. I just can't imagine, as a human being, turning someone away who is asking for help.
Bottom line, aren't we all just a bunch of addicts who can share our experience, strength and hope and possibly help others with their recovery?
Awaiting Email Confirmation
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Worcester
Posts: 789
If there is NA available, she should attend that fellowship. I have heard from more than one NA'er though that their meetings tend to not be as spiritually centered as AA meetings. I wouldn't know from personal experience though.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 170
Originally Posted by sugErspun 
Personally - I respect both NA and Alanon.
I would not force myself into one of their closed meetings. I am at meetings to contribute - not to save my own arse. If this girl is hurting so bad and gets relief from attending the closed AA meeting (and refuses to identify as someone who suffers from alcoholism) - why don't one of the group skip the meeting, take her out to coffee and sit and talk one on one with her?
She'd probably get a lot more out of it. Heck, even take a BB with you and just change some of the words like CA did for so many years.
Closed is Closed is Closed - what part are we confused about?
I would not force myself into one of their closed meetings. I am at meetings to contribute - not to save my own arse. If this girl is hurting so bad and gets relief from attending the closed AA meeting (and refuses to identify as someone who suffers from alcoholism) - why don't one of the group skip the meeting, take her out to coffee and sit and talk one on one with her?
She'd probably get a lot more out of it. Heck, even take a BB with you and just change some of the words like CA did for so many years.
Closed is Closed is Closed - what part are we confused about?
Yet the only requirment for membership is the desire to stop drinking. Why is it that I have to give everything up when comming into AA. AA doesnt want to get involved with drugs then why do you? Because its the right thing to do and I cant find God other wise.
What part are we confused about?
Anxiety King
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 403
Originally Posted by PaperDolls
Some other things that ran through my mind:
Can an alcoholic go to an NA meeting?
Thanks for mentioning this, PaperDolls. I was thinking about this too because at an AA meeting last night, a guy who had seen me at this other Sat. night meeting, invited me to go to a new Sat. night NA meeting that they were starting. Other than smoking pot a few times, I never really been a drug user.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,697
Well..that short form of the third tradition causes more problems that it solves.
"Our membership ought to include all who suffer from alcoholism. Hence we may refuse none who wish to recover. Nor ought A.A. membership ever depend upon money or conformity. Any two or three alcoholics gathered together for sobriety may call themselves an A.A. group, provided that, as a group, they have no other
affiliation."
The A.A. Tradition
If you are not suffering from alcoholism, why in the world would you want to be in a closed meeting of AA which is trying to carry the message to the ALCOHOLIC who still suffers from alcoholism?
That does not mean that the twelve steps can't help the addict who suffers. Just keep it out of closed meetings.
Ever heard the saying "AA kills drug addicts"?
If you cannot relate - you won't get very far.
"Our membership ought to include all who suffer from alcoholism. Hence we may refuse none who wish to recover. Nor ought A.A. membership ever depend upon money or conformity. Any two or three alcoholics gathered together for sobriety may call themselves an A.A. group, provided that, as a group, they have no other
affiliation."
The A.A. Tradition
If you are not suffering from alcoholism, why in the world would you want to be in a closed meeting of AA which is trying to carry the message to the ALCOHOLIC who still suffers from alcoholism?
That does not mean that the twelve steps can't help the addict who suffers. Just keep it out of closed meetings.
Ever heard the saying "AA kills drug addicts"?
If you cannot relate - you won't get very far.
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 1,924
PaperDolls,
What you feel can not be diminished and that is why NA was founded. Open AA is for Alcoholics and those who love/care for the Alcoholic. Closed AA is for those with a desire to stop drinking. AA diluted by trying to be savior to all does not work.
What you feel can not be diminished and that is why NA was founded. Open AA is for Alcoholics and those who love/care for the Alcoholic. Closed AA is for those with a desire to stop drinking. AA diluted by trying to be savior to all does not work.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,697
Originally Posted by PaperDolls
I won't pretend to know or understand the details of AA you've mentioned, Taz. Here's what came to my mind.
I was a binge drinker, never a daily drinker. When I hear someone talk about having a drink in the morning so they could function and then another with lunch an so on... I cannot relate. A daily drinker probably has a hard time relating with the way a binge drinker drinks. So, I was thinking ...... may be there should be a whole bunch of different meetings: AA for the daily drinker, AA for the binge drinker, NA for pot smokers, NA for crack addicts, NA for cocaine addicts ..... and so on. That's not possible or even logical.
Some other things that ran through my mind:
Can an alcoholic go to an NA meeting? Does an alcoholic want to stay sober from only alcohol? Have you ever gotten great ESH from a recovering drug addict here at SR that's helped you?
I don't regularly go to AA meetings but the one's I've been to have helped me through a bad night or rough time. If I had been asked to leave for some reason, I cannot imagine what that would have done to me.
I do understand the need for closed meetings. I don't pretend to know the answer to this or have a great understanding of the inner workings/traditions etc. of AA. I just can't imagine, as a human being, turning someone away who is asking for help.
Bottom line, aren't we all just a bunch of addicts who can share our experience, strength and hope and possibly help others with their recovery?
I was a binge drinker, never a daily drinker. When I hear someone talk about having a drink in the morning so they could function and then another with lunch an so on... I cannot relate. A daily drinker probably has a hard time relating with the way a binge drinker drinks. So, I was thinking ...... may be there should be a whole bunch of different meetings: AA for the daily drinker, AA for the binge drinker, NA for pot smokers, NA for crack addicts, NA for cocaine addicts ..... and so on. That's not possible or even logical.
Some other things that ran through my mind:
Can an alcoholic go to an NA meeting? Does an alcoholic want to stay sober from only alcohol? Have you ever gotten great ESH from a recovering drug addict here at SR that's helped you?
I don't regularly go to AA meetings but the one's I've been to have helped me through a bad night or rough time. If I had been asked to leave for some reason, I cannot imagine what that would have done to me.
I do understand the need for closed meetings. I don't pretend to know the answer to this or have a great understanding of the inner workings/traditions etc. of AA. I just can't imagine, as a human being, turning someone away who is asking for help.
Bottom line, aren't we all just a bunch of addicts who can share our experience, strength and hope and possibly help others with their recovery?
Alcoholism (AA) -
1> Allergy of the body, at certain times when alcohol is introduced to the body of the alcoholic the phenomenon of craving develops. Craving is defined by the absolute need to have more alcohol (physical craving for more). Have you ever been unable to control how much you drink once you've had a couple?
2>Obsession - The absolute inability to leave liqour alone for good (completely stop) no matter how bad the desire or need.
3>Spiritual malady - A feeling of being separate or unique. This is often described as 'not quite fitting in'. Alcohol solves this problem for a short time (at least it did for me) and worked really well.
When I share - you won't hear very much about what I drank, how often I drank, the stupid things I did while drinking, what time of the day I drank, unless we are speaking one on one. The details of drinking do not make up my alcoholism.
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