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Am I even an alcoholic?

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Old 02-21-2008, 02:33 PM
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Am I even an alcoholic?

Lately I have been wondering. I know I am a drug addict. I know I have had "problems" drinking. I know that drinking/drugs have landed me in jail cells and in front of judges(yeah I basically answered my question here...). I am 24, and have been sober over 2 years in AA. My last year before I got sober I didn't drink anywhere near as often as I used to, but when I did it was to the point of getting drunk, and in the last few months, to blackout. Once I started going to AA I never really got pissed anymore, I would just have a few drinks and get a buzz on. It got the point where I felt alcohol wasn't agreeing with my body, and more importantly, the glaring personal problems and issues in my life kept me from enjoying drinking or life in general. Most of these problems were reasons that I abused drugs/alcohol in the first place. I don't really see what there is to be gained by going back to drinking at this point, seeing as how I don't have any drinking friends anymore (this is mainly what I hate about being sober, I feel excluded socially by what most people my age are doing, or what I "think" they are doing). I see myself more as someone who has gone through addiction and has a few suitcases of issues that I am trying to deal with now. Getting completely sober just lifted the veil, and eventually, I was able to start seeking professional help. Most of my friends are from meetings, so I keep going to see them, and because I have nothing else to do besides that and go the gym (I am single and in university right now). I never did the "test" they talk about in "more about alcoholism" in the big book (going to the bar and drinking then stopping a few times), but I guess I just walked into the meetings feeling suicidal, knew I had drug/alcohol/addiction issues in my life, and just started saying "I'm ___ and I'm an alcoholic." I have always been in a vulnerable place, and to a certain degree I think I always will be. I've just gotten sick of meetings and relying on them. I am sober, I have changed as a person, but I still have a lot of the underlying issues that have caused so much **** in my life, and some of them I don't know if I will ever be alleviated from.
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Old 02-21-2008, 02:48 PM
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I hate names.

Look, anytime what you're doing is causing a problem, it's time to quit. You don't have to come to grips with it when, you get to be my age. I've been on the road you're heading on. You won't like where it leads you, more jail cells, lawyer bills, fines etc.

Usually, if a person has to ask, there's a good chance you already know the answer. I can't tell you for certain.


Try controlled drinking from here on out. If, you're unable to stop at a couple, the doors of AA are always open
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Old 02-21-2008, 03:04 PM
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I think many of us have been in a simliar position at some point in recovery. We have just enough time to feel like maybe we have a handle on the drinking thing ("I've gone this long without it so maybe I really don't have a problem"), "I am really sick of meetings, don't feel like I am getting anything out of them," "I still don't feel that much different except I don't have the cravings I used to." etc......

When I have arrived at those crossroads and have spoken to others the advice I was given was "do 90 meetings in 90 days," "go to more meetings," "talk with your sponsor," "work the steps again," "read the book," "read the book about acceptance and powerlessness," "your playing God again," "start applying the steps to these types of problems in my every day life," etc....

Yes, these statements many times would pi** me off. But the end result is I listened and did what was suggested. The steps are a key part of my recovery. I apply them to any situation that arises in my life from having a disagreement with one of my children to money situations. The steps work. I am able to the majority of the time feel pretty good about life. I am also able to share my ESH in meetings because I do face life challenges without drinking.

Hope this makes some sense. I kind of feel like I am rambling now so I am going to end this.

Good luck.
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Old 02-21-2008, 04:59 PM
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I am an alcoholic who had a drug problem. When the drugs (in my case speed) got to be a problem, I quit the drugs. This was six years before I got sober.

Looking back at my experience I have seen that I used the speed to manage alcoholism. But when I decided I really wanted to quit drinking, I found I couldn't, no matter how great the necessity. What I know today is that with drugs, I have the power to choose whether I am going to use them. With alcohol, I don't have that power.

But the main thing to look at when diagnosing one's self, is what happens when you drink? What happens when I drink alcohol is a phenomenon called craving for more alcohol. After that, I have no idea how it will go and I don't drink until I'm done, I drink until it is done. The phenomenon of craving, as Dr. Silkworth said diffrientiates alcoholics as a distinct entity and sets them apart from the rest of the population. It is the one defining factor of alcoholism. If that happens to you bob, don't give up your seat in AA.
Jim

Last edited by jimhere; 02-21-2008 at 05:04 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 02-21-2008, 05:06 PM
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The guy I sponsor was a heroin addict that drank too. AA is working for him and he is over 8 months sober.

There are ALOT of people in AA who are alcoholics and addicts. Some of them say, My name is "Joe" and I'm an alcoholic/addict. Some of them just say their an alcoholic. As long as they keep coming back, something must be working.


Tom
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Old 02-21-2008, 05:22 PM
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What if you aren't alcoholic? It really is a question that I feel needs to be asked..for everyone.

I need to know it is still truth for me.
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Old 02-21-2008, 05:29 PM
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The question everyone seems to be afraid of

Originally Posted by sugErspun View Post
What if you aren't alcoholic? It really is a question that I feel needs to be asked..for everyone.

I need to know it is still truth for me.
I agree. I revisit this question periodically. Not because I doubt myself, but when I take the steps I need to uncover any reservations.

Suprisingly, many are afraid of this question, especially if they've been in the fellowship for a while. What if you're not an alcoholic? What are you going to do if your entire social network has been the fellowship of AA for x number of years. In working with others, I've found that the ones most afraid of this question are the ones who've been around for a while. If you don't fit in in AA, where are you gonna fit?

A friend of mine used to say that a person has got to be pretty screwed up to want to fit in in AA.
Jim
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Old 02-21-2008, 05:42 PM
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I know someone who had been in the fellowship of AA for 10 years - not a drop of liqour. Came in young, met some friends (her eventual husband too), had good fellowship.

Went through the steps at 10 years sober, could not get step 1.

A normal drinker. Has a drink now and again (has been like this for a number of years), without ever losing control...

(btw I am just passing a relevant story. I had a very effective first step, it is not an indicative of some hope I have for my own future)
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Old 02-21-2008, 07:27 PM
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There are a few things that pi$$ me off about AA that people touched on. One is, if you don't fit in in AA, where will you fit in? I was always the black sheep (or I at least felt like it) it whatever group I have been in, throughout my life. AA isn't as bad, at least I can look down on other people in my circle and say "wow... I'm glad I am not like that" (yeah I know that's terrible). I feel like even if I decided to drink and was a social drinker, I don't know who I would hang out with... When I came into AA I was very lonely. Now I have more people around me and things to do, but am still lonely.

Something else, in meetings we are constantly told "if we drink... we die" .... "if you stop going to meetings, you'll get drunk"... "I've never heard anyone say it was better when they went back out"... It seems like no matter what, AA wins. If I stay sober and go to meetings, AA wins. If I don't go to meetings and get drunk, AA wins. If I don't go to meetings, and am less happy than I was in AA, then I am on a dry drunk, and AA wins. It seems like the only people who "win" are those arrogant self-righteous assholes who quote the big book and tell people how to work their program, looking down on anyone who doesn't do what they say and isn't as gloriously happy and satisfied with sober life as they are (because you must not work the program as good as them), completely ignoring their own shortcomings in the process. Don't lie, we've all met at least one person like this....
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Old 02-21-2008, 09:00 PM
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Stop f-ing around.

If you're going to get clean and sober then get clean and sober
and do what do need to do.

If you wanna get F-up...then go out and get f-up

Dose it or did it matter how you get/ got F-up or catch a buzz ??? Obviously not.

Then you're going to have hang ups of getting clean and sober.

I'll bet, there's a millions things that you do that pisses your
family and freinds off...and then ????

Don't be so hard on yourself ...you're the only person that's ever resisted
getting their shiet together.lol
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Old 02-22-2008, 04:10 AM
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Bob,I think it is normal for us alkies to queston whether we are alcoholic or not at certain times.I know I am a alcoholic and I know the craziest thing I can do is pick up a drug or a drink today.
I sponsor a young guy,Mike who is 25 yrs old.He is different than any older guys I have sponsored.His focus seems to be on "age" and "having fun" at times.He only drank for 4 years,and he is the youngest guy of our home group.I have suggested maybe he check out the Young Peoples in AA conferences.He could find more girls and guys his age to hang with.


a few things that got my attention about your posts

feeling like a black sheep-
alone-
AA wins-
blackouts-
feeling suicidal-
relying on meetings-

Bob,I would call those un-emotional soberiety,or the opposite of emotional sobriety and complacency.
Suggestion-rely on the steps and your HP and not the meetings for your sobriety,look to compare with others,not for the differences.If I depend on meetings,I feel like you do,if I depend on my relationship with my HP,I feel different,better.You`ve probably heard all this before.

if you stay sober and reasonably happy,you win Bob.....but if you want to go drink,go drink,AA never takes anyones right to drink away



by the way,have you ever heard Tom Brady`s talk on emotional soberiety?
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Old 02-22-2008, 04:53 AM
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Tom B. is one of my heroes in AA.
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Old 02-22-2008, 04:58 AM
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You said you were sick of relying on meetings. My reliance comes from a higher power, GOD. I got an AA sponsor, stopped using alcohol and drugs, stopped wondering and started doing.

I can relate I drank because I had underlying issues too, I am an alcoholic. I got a sponsor and worked the steps and stopped blaming all the baggage that was weighting me down. I turned all that crap over to God and another human being (my sponsor) and I no longer feel socially excluded. I feel a part of rather than apart from and enjoy meetings.

The only glaring personal issue I had was me and I couldn’t get rid if it without Gods help. I had to unpack the suitcases. I took inventory of what I could keep and what I had to burn. Sure lightened the load and freed me up to worry about more important things.
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Old 02-22-2008, 09:19 AM
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Bob only you know if you are an alcoholic, you may not be, you may be a drug addict who was using booze to replace the dope.

Bob I noticed you never mentioned having worked the steps, have you?

I had a ton of baggage when I got sober that was eating my butt alive, in my 4th step I identified and realized that a lot of that baggage I was carrying was in all relaity not all that bad so the load lightened for me a bit.

When I did my 5th it was as if the weight of the world had been lifted off of my shoulders, all of those deep dark secrets I had drug around for years, the biggest one I drug around for 40 years lost all power over me, they were out there, some one else knew and I found out that even they were not that big of a deal.

6 & 7 allowed me to acknowledge all of my defects and a path to rid myself of them, step 8 allowed me to document all of those I had harmed and I became willing to off load that remaining baggage as I could, in 9 (Which I continue to work at) I have lightened that baggage down to nothing more then carry on luggage as I make amends. 10 & 11 are maintenace but every bit as important as the rest to keep me from accumulating more baggage and allowing me to continue to grow as a better person, step 12 is the one that has allowed me the joy of carrying the message of recovery and to practice all of the steps in all areas of my life.

If you have worked the steps (They are for all intents and purposes the same in NA as they are in AA) you may want to grab your sponsor and let him know how you are feeling.

You may find that you are not an alcoholic, but a drug addict, does it really, really matter?

In NA alcohol is viewed as a drug. Smoking dope for an alcoholic like me I can tell you would get me wanting my DOC alcohol in a heart beat, I used to like to smoke dope, but when I did what that always led me to wanting was the high I desired and I would go buy a 12 pack to get it!!!!

Now let us put the shoe on the other foot, a recovering drug addict has a few drinks and those old feelings of wanting to get high on their real drug of choice pops up, do you think having a few more drinks will lessen or increase the cravings for drugs?
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Old 02-22-2008, 05:52 PM
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I used drugs and alcohol too. I considered drugs more of problem, but when I got honest with myself, I realized that I used alcohol in a very uncontrolled way and that I would always get drunk when I didn't have drugs. Today, I believe that I am alcoholic too. I don't really want to find out if I "might not be an alcoholic": it is a chance I just don't want to take. I've got nothing to gain and everything to lose by drinking again.
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Old 02-23-2008, 06:52 AM
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Bob I hope things get better for you. Going to AA wont make you happy, you have to work the steps. If going through life not drinking & drugging is good enough for you thats great, but it doesn't sound like your happy. I would suggest you stop taking those old timers inventory and start working on yours.
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Old 02-23-2008, 07:01 AM
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Bob,
I am like the person you are speaking of or at the very least could be easy portrayed as such. I am a man with a new life who is devoutly arrogant, a self-righteous ***hole as well as an advocate of the Big Book of Alcoholic Anonymous who tells folks how to work a program of recovery. I do look down on those who display rampant self pity, who disregard the truth of their plight and who refuse to accept responsibility for their lives in the midst of a coming death. My lack of humility allows me the opportunity to say whatever I want to, without fear of personal contempt, because at the end of the day, I live in my own skin and I have to be accountable to myself and a greater Power, not you.

I was encouraged early on in your writing when you exposed a remarkably quick and agile mind. I am naturally disappointed that one so gifted with the opportunity to see through their own self motivated ********, would resort to denial as a shield against reality.

You have a gift Bob; your mind is intact and I assume your physical being is intact as well. You have all you need to start and grow in a new life, but you would rather complain and whine your way through the day. You seem as though you have some education; you can use a computer. However, you whine terribly; it is like fingernails on a chalkboard. Maybe you are lonely due in large part to your own miserable outlook on life and the way you view other people. If everyone is an ***hole around you then I can understand why you are lonely. I know I get lonely, when I envision myself as master of the universe, but then again, I know how to find my place in the scheme of things and be grateful for it. You have not found that way yet, but you can if you simply try.

The solution is simple. You are not unique. Your thinking is not unique. Frankly your whining is not even original. Many of us, have been right where you are today; did you really think you were the first? When will you surrender Bob? Do you need the destruction of everything to finally bring you to your knees? Are you so knowledgeable that you refuse to see that your life might really hang in the balance? What do I know?

Funny, you didn’t fit in while drinking and you don’t fit in around AA. Maybe you are just so different from the norm that no one or nothing will ever appease you. Maybe you will never know real pain, maybe you are just what you are. I hope you find the answer and I hope you do not die to get it.
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Old 02-23-2008, 12:32 PM
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I appreciate your honesty. I am not so in denial that I don't realize I am whining. I have considered my options and after a little deliberation would never decide to go back drinking to see if I am truly an alcoholic. Yeah, I whine. I am human after all, let alone the fact that I'm not even 25. I don't think I ever said that I personally do not fit in at AA meetings, I just get sick of it, and I am still waiting to become normal (yeah I know, but this has been my life long dream). Maybe I am stuck in a frame of mind where I chase after the same fantasy life I did when I drank and used--- I don't even question it most of the time, it's just how I feel. I'm trying to take a more balanced approach to my life and sobriety, but I still tend to get grandiose and want the right social life, the right degree, job, and as much money and sex as humanly possible. I don't know when that's going to go away. They say acceptance is key, but when I accept things for how they are I feel like I am shortchanging myself and being complacent just to get peace of mind. If I turn it all over to god, I feel like I won't take any big steps to change because I am just waiting for the positive changes to happen. This is what causes me the most trouble. My first 1.5 yrs or so I would basically hide in AA meetings, go the gym, and go to school. I would only talk to AA people, was celibate, and lived in fear of my defects of character taking over my life and the thought of relapsing. I didn't acknowledge a lot of my personal problems, and would pretend it's normal to go out for coffee 3 times a week with men twice my age. Eventually, I basically went nuts. I am struggling to find a balance between that way of life, and..... whatever my alternative is (save for breaking sobriety).
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Old 02-23-2008, 01:04 PM
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I can understand exactly how you describe your life today. This is real honesty and I thank you for breaking through to something tangible. Being 24 is no different than being 51, it is just a number. You have followed a totally foreign routine to establish a new life and though it has begun to repair your plight in life, you have found it wanting. I can definitely understand how frustrating living life on life's terms can be. After all the work to change and one day you wake up and life seems bland and basically boring. I refuse to have coffee with old men too, especially in public!

In this new life, I can be anything. The world is my oyster! I am free to be whatever I want to be! I am free from the self inflicted misery of yesterday. My mind is healing and my body is improving. My outlook on life each day has never been better. Am I whole yet? No, but I am damn sure on my way to bigger, better and more prosperous opportunities. This is not idle ******** or the ranting of an old fool; I am free from bondage and nothing can stop me if I continue to stay free.

Who said that recovery equals mediocrity? Defects and shortcomings, through practice can be reined in; no longer am I a slave to the sewer that represents those old behaviors. Let’s find some remarkably awesome opportunities for you in this new life, together. Hell, I and many others here will walk with you if you will continue this kind of honesty; it would be more than a pleasure, it would be a privilege.
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Old 02-23-2008, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by RufusACanal View Post
Let’s find some remarkably awesome opportunities for you in this new life, together. Hell, I and many others here will walk with you if you will continue this kind of honesty; it would be more than a pleasure, it would be a privilege.
Hey, that would be cool. I need all the help I can get. I don't rely on meetings like I used to. I like the fellowship, I work my steps, go to meetings, but I need to make my own life now. I have been through enough adversity to know I am a survivor and mentally tough, but I get emotional now that I acknowledge my true needs and feelings. Self-awareness and insight create urgency. I can't go on in that state of mind for too long without altering my behavior. I complain or cry because something is wrong and I don't hide behind a drink/drug while stuffing my feelings inside. If what I say sounds like an immature rant sometimes, it's because I have only had a short time to actually practice expressing my needs and feelings. I went to aa and got sober because it was the most drastic change I could think of. I'm not finished making changes to have a better life and be a happier person.
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