Pathwaytofree

I recently had a couple over for the day and evening. This was a friend I've known since high school and her husband who I have only met a couple of times.

I'm in AA and am a 12 stepper. I didn't owe her an amends other than a living amends to be kind, unselfish, loving, etc. I love doing living amends because I get to be the person I wish I had been back then. I get to be my true authentic self.

I was very immature over the years and did stupid annoying stuff during our friendship. Once or twice when drunk I said some things that could've harmed her relationship. :-( So then there's the living amends to her husband.

I am happy to write that the living amends occurred naturally and organically without any thought. I was actually in the present moment with them. I wasn't even thinking beforehand or during about the past or living amends. I was calm, peaceful, happy they were here, and comfortable in my skin. They must've been comfortable around me because they stayed for a few hours.

Also I know this sounds stupid but the old me would've bought food that *I* liked, or cheap food, because well that's just how I raised. I'm happy that once again, naturally without talking to a sponsor or anything, I made sure to get food they both liked and with health issues in mind.

Also old me would've cleaned like a hurricane, and been in tremendous anxiety over imperfections in my home. Unfortunately both my family and friends from my home town (myself included) were the type to gossip and bad mouth one another. I still had many fear thoughts of them going back and telling people stuff, but I tried to let it go and just be.

This particular friend did stuff that caused an ex boyfriend to accuse her of something that wasn't my business to know, and did other stuff that caused some mutual friends to cut her off rather harshly. I saw thru to her motives at the time and knew she didn't mean to harm anyone; she was just hurting. I was angry when she told me that she wrote a heartfelt letter to her former best friend and it was ignored. My response was people are human, we make mistakes, she deserved forgiveness, that friend doesn't deserve you if she's so unwilling to forgive.

I do not know if my friend is an alcoholic. Suffice to say, I had some "truths" pop into my head about her the other day and they keep gnawing at me but I can't tell if they're from my gut or my mind. However, one of them is that she's alcoholic and in recovery. But I cannot ask her because I don't want anyone from my family or old friends to know about me. It would be completely misunderstood and all the old myths of alcoholics would be brought out.

Anyway, my friend sort of out of nowhere asked about my parents and when had I seen them last. I used to complain about them the way a teen complains about her parents. Meaning, I don't think anyone truly got what was going on. I shudder to think they were all thinking I was the crazy one and oh my poor parents, what they had to go through with me. Truth is, I was a really good kid. My hyperness, and annoyingness was anxiety and how I was trying to cope with having an abusive parent. I apologized to my friend and she said quietly "you weren't that bad" but then proceeded to share a funny story of a time when I was annoying. I laughed, because I knew that was her way of saying "well ok maybe a little, let's laugh a little at it now...." I wasn't hurt in the least.

I got extremely triggered when she asked about my parents. It was like I went from zero to 1000 just like that on the anxiety scale. I got very tense, hyper, couldn't stop touching stuff and moving stuff around on the table, and talked 90 mph about a couple of really crappy things that happened the last time we saw my parents.

My friend and husband just say quietly and listened. I noticed that when I actually was able to pause and snap out of it. But it was like I was caught in a trance and I couldn't stop. It was awful. I wasn't venting, I was sort of reliving the painful experience and I needed to share it because I was scared they thought I was a bad daughter for not seeing my parents more, and mostly to relieve my own guilt, of which talking about it didn't do it. It was as if everything I've worked so hard in recovery step work and with therapists went right out the window. I was back to the place of needing validation that none of this was my fault and yes they were definitely abusive.

Then I ruined my therapy appointment talking about all this and now I think she thinks I'm crazy and I am so embarrassed I don't know if I can see her again. I wish instead of just sitting there listening to me babble, she had helped snap me out of it.

I don't know if any of you were made to feel like everything was your fault from parents who were constitutionally unable to ever see their part, mistakes, or say I'm sorry, but it sucks and I swear I wish they had just beaten the crap out of me so the bruises would've been validation enough that it was real.

Sorry this is a long post. I guess I'd really like to know how you all escape from when you're triggered by the past.

I calmly asked my husband if next time that happens and I can't seem to get out of it myself, if he could just gently put his hand on my shoulder, look me in the eyes and say something. His response was "yeah well you were just going on and on, I couldn't stop you". I think he completely missed the fact that this wasn't a conscious thing on my part. I couldn't really explain that to my therapist either. I need a tool to have awareness of when that happens and how to stop it. It feels like being chased by a runway train.

tromboneliness

I have no advice except, don't stop going to the therapist -- they've seen everything, and if you're out of sorts, it's their job to help you feel better! I'm sure she doesn't think you're crazy -- but even if she does, it's her job to talk to crazy people and help them get un-crazy! At one point, I felt that a therapist of mine was making me feel "screwed up," but same thing -- his job was to help people in my circumstances, and I eventually figured out I was pretty much just projecting things onto him that he wasn't doing at all! Good luck... T

Ken33xx

A wise man in AA once said that sobriety gives us a reservoir of experiences to go through without picking up a drink.

The experience you just went through was uncomfortable. However, you can learn from it and the next time handle things a bit better.

Family and work situation are triggers for me and I am aware of this.

I was going to invite my brother and his son to visit me for a week but worried his wife might come along too. She is the way she is and that`s fine. But I prefer not so spend more than an evening with her.

At work? I do my best to avoid any drama. Politics? Nope. I`ll stick to the weather.

Today I am better at avoiding potential problems because of past experiences. I`m not perfect but I`m a lot better than before when I would jump right in.

Pathwaytofree

Hi Tromboneliness,

Thanks for reading my long post. Your reply helped me a lot. My therapist did point out one positive that I hadn't seen, and it was a major positive regarding my friend so that helped.

She also made the point that I don't have to remain friends with people who treat me like my family. (This particular friend never treated me badly although I'm certain she gossiped about me behind my back because that's just what our group did back then).

I just wish my therapist said something to snap me out of it. I was in a bad place. It's as if I'm drowning, and I'm flailing my arms and freaking out instead of trying to assess the situation and think of a solution. Maybe one day all the tools I'm taught or things said to me in therapy will actually hit me in this sort of situation and I'll remember. I don't know why I don't remember in the moment. It's damn frustrating.

But your post helped me very much, because I had forgotten that we project things onto our therapists. I've been white-knuckling not calling her to apologize for how crazy I was, talking a mile a minute. I'm scared about what she thinks of me now, and then my anxiety hits the roof with my wanting to explain why I get this way. I get all nervous that she's writing on my folder now "PTF is a hopeless case", lol.

How were you able to figure out that you were projecting onto him?

Pathwaytofree

Hi Ken33xx,

Thanks for coming over to this side of the forums. :-) That is a wise thing to say. True I didn't pick up a drink. (Um...I did turn to sweets afterward, though, but nothing crazy). I get stuck, though. I can't seem to put things in perspective or think them through calmly without the anxiety. I'm guessing this wise man in AA would expect me to do so.
This is exactly where I get stuck. :-( The anxiety from how I handled the situation causes me to not be able how to learn from it and handle things better next time. It's like in the moment, I am reliving the past. It feels like PTSD or something? So I start acting exactly how it felt when the event happened. And I'm explaining it as if it had just happened.

Same here. Work feels too much like family situations. I burned myself out in my career because of the stress I put on myself. I'm aware of it, but I so easily get sucked back into the anxiety of it all, instead of pausing in the moment.

Interestingly, though, on my own (without mentioning it to my therapist or anyone in AA) I decided ahead of time what I'd do if they handed me a bottle of wine or 6-pack of beer when they arrived. Actually I have SR to thank because in a reply to someone's post last week, I figured out what I'd say. My therapist asked me "do they drink; did they bring alcohol" and there was my moment of clarity where I calmly and confidently told her how I would've handled it if they did.

She said that it was too bad I hadn't brought this up beforehand so I would've been prepared. She's right. But when do I start being able to handle what life throws at me, either in the moment or from past memories, without having to have reminders in therapy? This makes me so angry at myself.

I love this. You're giving yourself permission to set boundaries, take care of yourself, and not be in a situation that makes you feel uncomfortable. Forgiveness, acceptance, love and tolerance, patience, etc are one thing--but self-care and boundaries are another.

It reminds me of something that happened about 6 months ago. I was at a women's book study with some ladies from church. The book study was over, and the women were chatting about a topic that made me uncomfortable. I sat there patiently for a few minutes, and then politely and quietly excused myself. I did nothing wrong. But I got rather strong prying messages from the woman who ran the book club asking me why I left, what happened, was everything ok. I stood my ground and just said "the meeting was over, I excused myself." End of story. We don't have to explain our choices in recovery. No more people pleasing.

I wish I had done this years ago. I see a lot in hindsight what I could've done better. I got too wrapped up in workplace drama at times. Sticking to the weather or surface stuff is definitely the way to go. Wise advise I wish I had followed: "Get there on time, smile and say hello, sit down, do your work, go home. Repeat next day." I'm helping one of my sponsees with this.

How do you catch yourself in the moment before going down the rabbit hole if it's something triggering?

2ndhandrose

Hi PTF, I found your post interesting, as I have had to work at managing myself in the moment.

I wondered if you have talked these triggers through with your therapist?

For myself, talking a subject through, very thoroughly, is helpful to ease some of its power to trigger or cause me grief.

Also, for me, these 'in the moment' experiences get easier with practice, even though it sometimes feels like one step forward, 2 steps back.

Wishing you the best

Ken33xx

Today I can physically feel a change as I begin to get tight. I have learned to try and cut bait so to speak. To back off. I am not as interested in winning an argument or making a point as I am much as I am getting out of the situation.

It's not easy when it comes to family or certain friends but I have learned to sit boundaries. I learned by practicing in the AA. I find there are those in the fellowship who have co-dependency issues which I can't afford to be sucked into. They didn't like the fact I would no longer associate with them away from meetings. It was uncomfortable at first but I am much better off as a result.

tromboneliness

I don't know, really -- I just talked to him directly about it, and he smiled and said, "Moi?" At that point, I realized that hey, it's his job to sit there and listen to me -- not to judge or make me feel screwed up. If anything, one of the problems I had with him was that he gave me almost no direction at all, so I felt more like a research subject he was studying than someone he was trying to help! It's a helping profession... if they wanted to judge us, they wouldn't be doing therapy. These days, one of the things I constantly have to remind myself is that it's not all about me -- I'm not under a microscope, people aren't watching every little thing I do, and most of the stuff I do ... goes by without even registering, as far as the rest of the world is concerned. That helps me to take the pressure off and just be... however I'm going to be on a given day. It helps a lot at work, because I have a job where I tend toward "impostor syndrome," where I think I'm not getting the job done, am totally faking it, and will eventually be "found out" and sent away. Never mind that I've been working in the field for upwards of 30 years, and although I've had jobs that didn't work out, I've never been fired for not being good! So if I have a bad day and accomplish little of value (like today), I try to remember that most likely, no one noticed....

T

Pathwaytofree

I'm glad it could help others. :-)

Sort of. I just started working with a new therapist. But my previous therapist did suggest how I answer questions. Unfortunately I forgot that until the new therapist brought it up. I think I need to review this with her.

I've talked ad nausea about these particular people and their triggering behavior and words. I have an understanding of it, but unfortunately in the moment sometimes I go right back to the past and relive the feelings from then instead of staying the present and reminding myself what these people are all about, and that how they treated me was not personal.

Funny, I always use that line with one of my sponsees and it's so true. My therapist reminds me that stuff like this is not linear (my brain would like to think that it is).

Thanks to you as well!

Pathwaytofree

Ken this is such an excellent point. I am definitely going to bring this up to my therapist because we're trying to work on mindfulness. I definitely get physical changes when I'm triggered or feeling anxious. I need to increase my awareness and mindfulness around it.

I did feel like I had to prove something to my friends and I don't know why. That's the character defect of "pride" and it should be a non issue at this point. I guess I still feel like I have to stick up for myself and I'm not sure why.

Same here. As much as I love the big book, it doesn't say much about setting boundaries other than saying that we don't grovel/crawl during amends. But I also did learn that the God of my understanding does not want me to people please, be a doormat, or take care of other people's wants and needs at the detriment of my own, so that helps.

I've been a lot better in recovery setting boundaries. However it wasn't like I thought "oh no I have to answer this question or else they'll be mad". It was more like "I need to explain the situation here so they understand and don't think bad of me."

That's an important point. You have a right to make your recovery and fellowship your business. If they take it personally that you don't want to socialize outside of the meetings, that's on them and not you.

Pathwaytofree

This is a huge issue for me in therapy. I can sit from now till the cows come home and I will never figure stuff out by just bouncing it off of a therapist without any direction. When you grow up in a house where what's up is really down and what's down is really up, everything's screwed up, nothing makes sense, and there's way I could ever figure out the puzzle without some professional direction.

I, too, have had moments where I feel like a research subject when they sit there stone faced. My therapist did direct me a little bit but I can't stand it when they're like "it's gotta come from you." My last therapist thought it'd be good for me to say positive mantras to myself in the morning. I thought that was a fantastic idea! However he wouldn't give me suggestions on what to say. "It's gotta come from you." I just sat there clueless. My sponsor used to say maybe I need a life coach and not a therapist. I don't know what I need anymore.

So you never worry that he thinks you're an awful son, and you find yourself rambling 100 miles a minute explaining how your dad treated you, all because you know you're not an awful son but the guilt of how your dad made you feel causes you to feel like you are? :-(

Even when it concerned your parents? I get extremely triggered whenever anyone asks family type questions. It was suggested by my last therapist to say something like "it's complicated" but then I get puzzled looks in response. People judge you harshly when it comes to family type stuff.

LOL I remember talking with a therapist years ago about "impostor syndrome". She had it too. It's a weird feeling! You seem to be in a good place, T, in talking back to the negative thoughts in your head.

tromboneliness

Yes -- a sponsor, or a good meeting, is often better than a therapist, for figuring this stuff out! It's also an awful lot cheaper.

As for the family stuff, I don't talk about my family much, with non-program people. It's complicated, and it's really none of their business. People outside the program Do. Not. Get. It. They can't, because they still play by the rules -- we have figured out (or are figuring out) that the rules are there to keep us in our place, and to prevent us from growing and being our true selves! I pretty much avoid my extended family -- but I haven't said anything to them about it. There's no need to formally announce, "You are non-program people who Do Not Get It, so I am officially going Limited Contact with you." That's just another thing they won't get -- so I don't say anything, I just do it.

Impostor Syndrome is a common thing -- people in all fields have it!

T

Pathwaytofree

It's so much harder dealing with the family stuff with people outside of program than dealing with the not drinking part.

One of my husband's cousins years ago kept looking at me so confused and curious. She was just making polite conversation, but I was caught off guard. With each question she asked about my family, my anxiety rose sky high. I'm certain she thinks there's something wrong with *me* that *my family* doesn't keep in contact with *me*. I certainly couldn't tell her the truth then and there. For now on I really have to say "it's complicated".

One time with new friends who kept asking about my family, I said "they're abusive". End of story, wow that was easy. But I know that could make people uncomfortable.

Non program people do not get that "But they're your family!!" and other social norms just do not apply when it comes to family riddled with drama, chaos, and alcoholism stemming from many generations.

One of my former therapists told me she had this when she was new in the field. It's an interesting phenomenon and probably effects those of us with self-worth and self-esteem issues.

tromboneliness

Bingo! That's what people have exactly backwards. Being a member of my family is an accident of birth -- my blood relatives don't have any special right to be a part of my life, just because of DNA. Being one of my friends, however, is a whole 'nother thing. That's a meritocracy -- you have to do something special to be part of that group.

So naturally, I'm going to value my friends more than my family -- they did something to get there! This is what I mean by playing by the rules, as opposed to ignoring the rules, growing, and being our true selves!

T

Pathwaytofree

Thanks T- it really is all about being our true selves, isn't it.... Thank you.