Sib contacted - stuff still under rug
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 350
Sib contacted - stuff still under rug
One of my brothers that I've decided I would only correspond through e-mail/facebook (no face-to-face, or phone-call), sent me a message on fb on my birthday. He basically said he misses me and hopes we can meet up, and asked for my phone number (he lost it in getting a new phone). This brother had recently said he's willing to spend time with me without my wife. That just doesn't fly with me.
I debated about how to respond, and basically said "love and miss you - i would love to correspond beyond e-mail - but i'm confused - I am welcome in your life but my wife is not? that if we meet she cannot be present ever? If I confused something about your e-mail, my apologies - can you help me understand where you're at?" and I left my phone number (I paraphrased the response)
My brother did not respond.
Maybe others are ok with something like that, but not me. My wife is 8 months pregnant - eventually I would have to explain to my daughter why mom doesn't join us to visit uncle so-and-so...or...why mom AND daughter don't visit uncle so-and-so. Nope. I mentioned in the message that I love my wife and incoming child and participate in relationships that accept both them and me.
I'll still keep the e-mail contact going, but I guess I'm not that surprised with no response to my question. I drafted and drafted and drafted my response. Leaving it with something short and that was open ended that invited conversation worked for me (plus I like that I allowed him the opportunity to clarify for me).
Are there others with similar situations? why would someone dislike someone SO much that they're willing to not have their brother in their life? seems REALLY strange to me. My wife is not suffering from alcoholism - not in jail - not on drugs. She's just different - liberal, likes cats, recycles, loves gardening, etc. The two of them haven't had any major issues (that resulted in shouting matches, name-calling, nothing) - we even had a counseling session with this brother and we thought things were cool. And now he's saying he doesn't get along with my wife.
I often feel so confused by the behavior that I literally have to drop any effort - plus any effort to understand. When I try, (hey, what's going on?), I am met with withdrawal. There's no communication around the major issues. This brother and I talk about video games and movies through e-mail and that's it.
Oh well, I guess I don't get to understand. Understanding is out of my control, because it would require my brother to respond to my questions.
Feels more like a "hey, I'm your brother, do what I ask" - I'm feeling more of the weight of loyalty and obligation than someone who actually cares about me and my wellbeing (not just his own).
or, maybe it's just a simple - his boundaries are excluding my wife from his life (but not me), and my boundaries are my wife has to be included. as such, I can let the relationship go. excluding my wife is non-negotiable.
I debated about how to respond, and basically said "love and miss you - i would love to correspond beyond e-mail - but i'm confused - I am welcome in your life but my wife is not? that if we meet she cannot be present ever? If I confused something about your e-mail, my apologies - can you help me understand where you're at?" and I left my phone number (I paraphrased the response)
My brother did not respond.
Maybe others are ok with something like that, but not me. My wife is 8 months pregnant - eventually I would have to explain to my daughter why mom doesn't join us to visit uncle so-and-so...or...why mom AND daughter don't visit uncle so-and-so. Nope. I mentioned in the message that I love my wife and incoming child and participate in relationships that accept both them and me.
I'll still keep the e-mail contact going, but I guess I'm not that surprised with no response to my question. I drafted and drafted and drafted my response. Leaving it with something short and that was open ended that invited conversation worked for me (plus I like that I allowed him the opportunity to clarify for me).
Are there others with similar situations? why would someone dislike someone SO much that they're willing to not have their brother in their life? seems REALLY strange to me. My wife is not suffering from alcoholism - not in jail - not on drugs. She's just different - liberal, likes cats, recycles, loves gardening, etc. The two of them haven't had any major issues (that resulted in shouting matches, name-calling, nothing) - we even had a counseling session with this brother and we thought things were cool. And now he's saying he doesn't get along with my wife.
I often feel so confused by the behavior that I literally have to drop any effort - plus any effort to understand. When I try, (hey, what's going on?), I am met with withdrawal. There's no communication around the major issues. This brother and I talk about video games and movies through e-mail and that's it.
Oh well, I guess I don't get to understand. Understanding is out of my control, because it would require my brother to respond to my questions.
Feels more like a "hey, I'm your brother, do what I ask" - I'm feeling more of the weight of loyalty and obligation than someone who actually cares about me and my wellbeing (not just his own).
or, maybe it's just a simple - his boundaries are excluding my wife from his life (but not me), and my boundaries are my wife has to be included. as such, I can let the relationship go. excluding my wife is non-negotiable.
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Back East
Posts: 704
You have the correct boundaries (as far as I'm concerned, at least). Your wife is a "relative" because of who she is -- our "relative-relatives" are there because of an accident of birth. That whole "blood is thicker than water" idea (whatever that's supposed to mean) is manipulative nonsense, and it's totally backwards.
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,805
Thotful, I am in full agreement with you. Family members must accept spouses if they think they are going to be a big part of your life. That being said, I think in normal circumstances where spouses are an accepted part of the family, it is also okay to just have one-on-one time with your siblings.
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: east coast
Posts: 1,332
I think it depends. My in laws particularly my mother in law was a nasty witch. But, that was my husband's problem. I didn't care if he took the kids to see his family without me. I didn't want to see them.
The only time I put my foot down was with one of my brother in law's second wife. That woman is a psychopath and I told my husband that they weren't allowed around either of my kids or to know anything going on in our lives. But, I never told him he couldn't have a relationship with them. That is his family. His monkey, his circus. I only stepped in when I felt it was in my children's best interest to do so.
The only time I put my foot down was with one of my brother in law's second wife. That woman is a psychopath and I told my husband that they weren't allowed around either of my kids or to know anything going on in our lives. But, I never told him he couldn't have a relationship with them. That is his family. His monkey, his circus. I only stepped in when I felt it was in my children's best interest to do so.
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 350
Yes, I've wondered about the same thing DoubleDragons
("it is also okay to just have one-on-one time with your siblings")
In my response, I directly asked him if it's an all or nothing thing. IE, is he asking for occasional "bro" time (just meeting with me), 10% bro time? 50% "bro" time, or 100%? I believed it was 100% bro time that he's insisting on, but I allowed him the opportunity to clarify. Without a response from him, I don't know.
I've simply made it as clear as I can that I would not agree to 100% bro-time. If my brother actually engaged in the conversation with a response, he and I could have negotiated.
All of the above doesn't include how my brother treats me. He once stated that "you don't have any friends" to me. I pondered for a while about why he would say that - because it is definitely false. My recent belief is that what he was making an "attack the person" argument. That if I was some sort-of loser to be pitied or something, then my complaints wouldn't be credible. Gaslighting, essentially. He might as well said that I was crazy. What I heard from him saying that is more along the lines of "I'm not your friend" - and when someone says that to me, I think I should take the hint.
I would also note this brother has a 1 year old. I've met the child once and only as a fluke because I was volunteering at a booth at the fair and he stumbled across the booth. Neither my wife nor I have been invited to visit with their little child. This brother has not responded to phone calls with invites to visit, e-mails, etc. His wife blocked and unfriended my wife on facebook. ALL of these behaviors? no explanation. nothing.
It's a strange phenomenon. It's like one hand is held up to ward me away (talk to the hand), and the other hand beckons me to meet up.
My current belief is that this sibling wants the OLD me back - the person that was NOT in recovery - the person that people-pleased to no end. The person that made his siblings and parents his FIRST priority (and only priority). The person that was ok with being on the bottom of a hierarchy. The person that kept silent and didn't point out any issues. The person that said this family is awesome and how grateful I am, because I would have no one else (yes, the whole "you have no friends" sounds a lot like the trick in the manipulators handbook of "no one loves you but me").
Problem is, I don't have the old me to offer anymore. I have the new me. In my opinion, the REAL me. I do not miss old me. I simply won't hand back old me to my siblings, etc because then I would lose myself. I would martyr myself to "THE FAMILY". Not gonna happen.
At least, the old me vs new me thing would make sense with the mixed messages from this particular brother. He beckons because he wants to pull out old me, but he's trying to somehow ward off new me. Maybe he thinks that my wife is some culprit behind the whole thing? That if I'm separated from her, the old me would come back?
Delusional certainly, but possible. I guess I won't know if he's not talking.
Oh well.
For the me that's here today, I like me.
If this brother doesn't -- well, that's his problem.
("it is also okay to just have one-on-one time with your siblings")
In my response, I directly asked him if it's an all or nothing thing. IE, is he asking for occasional "bro" time (just meeting with me), 10% bro time? 50% "bro" time, or 100%? I believed it was 100% bro time that he's insisting on, but I allowed him the opportunity to clarify. Without a response from him, I don't know.
I've simply made it as clear as I can that I would not agree to 100% bro-time. If my brother actually engaged in the conversation with a response, he and I could have negotiated.
All of the above doesn't include how my brother treats me. He once stated that "you don't have any friends" to me. I pondered for a while about why he would say that - because it is definitely false. My recent belief is that what he was making an "attack the person" argument. That if I was some sort-of loser to be pitied or something, then my complaints wouldn't be credible. Gaslighting, essentially. He might as well said that I was crazy. What I heard from him saying that is more along the lines of "I'm not your friend" - and when someone says that to me, I think I should take the hint.
I would also note this brother has a 1 year old. I've met the child once and only as a fluke because I was volunteering at a booth at the fair and he stumbled across the booth. Neither my wife nor I have been invited to visit with their little child. This brother has not responded to phone calls with invites to visit, e-mails, etc. His wife blocked and unfriended my wife on facebook. ALL of these behaviors? no explanation. nothing.
It's a strange phenomenon. It's like one hand is held up to ward me away (talk to the hand), and the other hand beckons me to meet up.
My current belief is that this sibling wants the OLD me back - the person that was NOT in recovery - the person that people-pleased to no end. The person that made his siblings and parents his FIRST priority (and only priority). The person that was ok with being on the bottom of a hierarchy. The person that kept silent and didn't point out any issues. The person that said this family is awesome and how grateful I am, because I would have no one else (yes, the whole "you have no friends" sounds a lot like the trick in the manipulators handbook of "no one loves you but me").
Problem is, I don't have the old me to offer anymore. I have the new me. In my opinion, the REAL me. I do not miss old me. I simply won't hand back old me to my siblings, etc because then I would lose myself. I would martyr myself to "THE FAMILY". Not gonna happen.
At least, the old me vs new me thing would make sense with the mixed messages from this particular brother. He beckons because he wants to pull out old me, but he's trying to somehow ward off new me. Maybe he thinks that my wife is some culprit behind the whole thing? That if I'm separated from her, the old me would come back?
Delusional certainly, but possible. I guess I won't know if he's not talking.
Oh well.
For the me that's here today, I like me.
If this brother doesn't -- well, that's his problem.
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 688
Tromboneliness has it right--your wife comes first.
If he wants occasional bro time, that's fine, but if it's a clear message that your wife is not welcome, that's an issue.
Yes, I do have experience with this. XH's relative did this to me, and he did not have my back.
If he wants occasional bro time, that's fine, but if it's a clear message that your wife is not welcome, that's an issue.
Yes, I do have experience with this. XH's relative did this to me, and he did not have my back.
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Join Date: May 2015
Location: PA
Posts: 562
My brother did that to me evening rose and I haven't spoken to him in the last 6 months and won't ever.......I got another brother who told me not to call him again about a year ago........I haven't called and will not. They've abandoned me but I have not abandoned myself. And I don't feel bad about it , they are chronic stressors.
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,437
Siblings that go through what we have been through don't always band together. In my case my parents played each one of us so differently you would think we were all liars and had totally different parents. I am at odds with a couple of sibs and the rest we are just not close but no big problems. Ahh such is life, our crazy lives.
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