mom asked "how will you introduce your child to the FAMILY"
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mom asked "how will you introduce your child to the FAMILY"
I am feeling so...whatever it is (bundle of anxiety, frustration, exhaustion, etc) that I can barely work. I might go home sick today given how I'm feeling. I might make a bunch of phone calls. This stuff is rough.
I was having a nice lunch with my mother and I was talking about how much better I feel (she asked me if I go to my counselor still). She said she thought my counselor was a little "squirrel" and didn't like him. Huh? that made NO SENSE. As I talked about all the things I felt better about and the emotional strength I felt inside, she tried to argue that "oh, isn't that because of your job and your marriage and not the other stuff" (meaning, the sobriety, the al-anon, the AA, the counseling "stuff").
She asked me about my plans to introduce my child to "THE FAMILY".
I had just finished talking about how I was working to "understand" others, because I couldn't force people to "understand" me. I can only ask for what I want, it's not something I can take. So, I asked for some understanding.
"what do you mean by the family", and she replied with "your family-of-origin" and she said she hated the phrase. I asked her why she hated it so much. She indicated that "it" degrades or devalues my original family. I asked if she felt it devalued her and she said yes, and I said "OK" (I didn't know what to say after that - she doesn't like it and she has her reasons - I DO like it and I have my reasons).
I stated that I believe there is a family for every single person. I have a family, my wife has a family, each of my siblings have a family, my mother has a family, and each of those families are NOT the same thing. I won't be deciding the kinds of relationships that my daughter will have with "the family" as she put it - That I will decide based on the safety and well-being of my child which INDIVIDUALS will be in my child's life and at what capacity. That it would be a decision between my wife and I.
She stated that she felt that I over-react and blow things out of proportion. That I mis-interpreted what was said. That someone meant something to be this, and I interpreted as that, and another person heard something else (this was in response to my direct question of "what does my brother have to say to me for you to agree that it's mental abuse? what would need to be said or done"). So, in response, I said, "So, are you saying that I misinterpreted everything about their attitude and acceptance of my wife and they would like to sit down and talk with us and clear the air - to make peace with my wife and I?". My mother came back with "I can't speak for them" -- FUNNY...she just finished trying to speak for them.
She eventually admitted that she wished she could "take someone and put them on my lap" - I think she was trying to say that she would "symbolically" spank my brother? I argued that my brother is not a child anymore. That he's a grown man and he will make his own decisions. And SO WILL I>
I admitted that it's very likely that my siblings and parents will not like the decision that I make. That they will be quite upset with me. THat I might have to accept that. That I will believe that their approval of my decisions will COME SECOND to my child's safety and well-being. THat I will protect my child. I, my wife, AND my child will have to be accepted.
My mother also droned on about how I wasn't forgiving my two brothers. THat I put ALL of the blame on them (everything on their shoulders). That I was angry. That I couldn't forgive and was just angry. That, "oh, you've done all this work" and you can't forgive. I reiterated that I love my two brothers, and I forgive them, and truly wish them well. I think they're amazing people. It was simply that I will decide what I will accept in my life and what I won't. And I will not accept their abusive behavior.
She went on about how I held onto the past. I pointed out that this stuff wasn't in the past. That it was there EVERY TIME I tried to work things out with my siblings.
She eventually just changed the subject.
sorry for all of my venting, I just need to get it all OUT. I believe I got caught in an argument with her that could have gone better (maybe with more recovery I would stop the conversation earlier...I don't know).
As I led her out to the car (she's almost 70 and has trouble getting down stairs), I said to her, "I'll think about what you said".
Help me with this. It sounds like the SAME OLD arguments time and time again. I'm not sure if I should have engaged with any of it. But AT THE SAME TIME, I needed to hear my own voice roar. I WILL BE deciding what I will have in my life. I WILL BE deciding what's abusive and what's not. My mom hated that I would let her see the little one, and my sister, possibly my dad (maybe - not sure about the drinking), and various other siblings, but ABSOLUTELY NOT MY ESTRANGED SIBLINGS. and my mother says they will feel "cut out" because they love babies. I'm sorry, but WHAAAT? are you kidding me?
She also said, "you want a total apology and total acceptance" (and this was somehow too much to ask for). What exactly is the difference between total acceptance and acceptance? ?
Thanks for listening as I blow off steam!!!
I was having a nice lunch with my mother and I was talking about how much better I feel (she asked me if I go to my counselor still). She said she thought my counselor was a little "squirrel" and didn't like him. Huh? that made NO SENSE. As I talked about all the things I felt better about and the emotional strength I felt inside, she tried to argue that "oh, isn't that because of your job and your marriage and not the other stuff" (meaning, the sobriety, the al-anon, the AA, the counseling "stuff").
She asked me about my plans to introduce my child to "THE FAMILY".
I had just finished talking about how I was working to "understand" others, because I couldn't force people to "understand" me. I can only ask for what I want, it's not something I can take. So, I asked for some understanding.
"what do you mean by the family", and she replied with "your family-of-origin" and she said she hated the phrase. I asked her why she hated it so much. She indicated that "it" degrades or devalues my original family. I asked if she felt it devalued her and she said yes, and I said "OK" (I didn't know what to say after that - she doesn't like it and she has her reasons - I DO like it and I have my reasons).
I stated that I believe there is a family for every single person. I have a family, my wife has a family, each of my siblings have a family, my mother has a family, and each of those families are NOT the same thing. I won't be deciding the kinds of relationships that my daughter will have with "the family" as she put it - That I will decide based on the safety and well-being of my child which INDIVIDUALS will be in my child's life and at what capacity. That it would be a decision between my wife and I.
She stated that she felt that I over-react and blow things out of proportion. That I mis-interpreted what was said. That someone meant something to be this, and I interpreted as that, and another person heard something else (this was in response to my direct question of "what does my brother have to say to me for you to agree that it's mental abuse? what would need to be said or done"). So, in response, I said, "So, are you saying that I misinterpreted everything about their attitude and acceptance of my wife and they would like to sit down and talk with us and clear the air - to make peace with my wife and I?". My mother came back with "I can't speak for them" -- FUNNY...she just finished trying to speak for them.
She eventually admitted that she wished she could "take someone and put them on my lap" - I think she was trying to say that she would "symbolically" spank my brother? I argued that my brother is not a child anymore. That he's a grown man and he will make his own decisions. And SO WILL I>
I admitted that it's very likely that my siblings and parents will not like the decision that I make. That they will be quite upset with me. THat I might have to accept that. That I will believe that their approval of my decisions will COME SECOND to my child's safety and well-being. THat I will protect my child. I, my wife, AND my child will have to be accepted.
My mother also droned on about how I wasn't forgiving my two brothers. THat I put ALL of the blame on them (everything on their shoulders). That I was angry. That I couldn't forgive and was just angry. That, "oh, you've done all this work" and you can't forgive. I reiterated that I love my two brothers, and I forgive them, and truly wish them well. I think they're amazing people. It was simply that I will decide what I will accept in my life and what I won't. And I will not accept their abusive behavior.
She went on about how I held onto the past. I pointed out that this stuff wasn't in the past. That it was there EVERY TIME I tried to work things out with my siblings.
She eventually just changed the subject.
sorry for all of my venting, I just need to get it all OUT. I believe I got caught in an argument with her that could have gone better (maybe with more recovery I would stop the conversation earlier...I don't know).
As I led her out to the car (she's almost 70 and has trouble getting down stairs), I said to her, "I'll think about what you said".
Help me with this. It sounds like the SAME OLD arguments time and time again. I'm not sure if I should have engaged with any of it. But AT THE SAME TIME, I needed to hear my own voice roar. I WILL BE deciding what I will have in my life. I WILL BE deciding what's abusive and what's not. My mom hated that I would let her see the little one, and my sister, possibly my dad (maybe - not sure about the drinking), and various other siblings, but ABSOLUTELY NOT MY ESTRANGED SIBLINGS. and my mother says they will feel "cut out" because they love babies. I'm sorry, but WHAAAT? are you kidding me?
She also said, "you want a total apology and total acceptance" (and this was somehow too much to ask for). What exactly is the difference between total acceptance and acceptance? ?
Thanks for listening as I blow off steam!!!
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,437
I never let my children be around my foo. I made my life with them and my husband and my friends, some inlaws. My foo was OUT. We occasionally saw them, a wedding or funeral here or there and I even invited them over maybe 4 times in 20 years. But not regular holidays, or birthdays, etc. I am in charge of what is best for my family and I don't care who dislikes what I do or not.
There is no rule that our children need to live in foo turmoil and crazy making. I shared recently that my daughter just thanked me for keeping her out of the craziness now that she is an adult.
There is no rule that our children need to live in foo turmoil and crazy making. I shared recently that my daughter just thanked me for keeping her out of the craziness now that she is an adult.
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: east coast
Posts: 1,332
My husband's family is so nuts they make mine seem normal. If I could do it all over almost none of them would have ever laid eyes on my kids. My kids didn't need that crazy in their lives.
Personally there are few precautions I would take if I were you. One don't let them know when the baby is born. Wait until you are all home from the hospital. Then answer the birth. Two, don't take the baby around to meet the family. Make them come to you. Three, let your wife physically introduce your daughter and decide who gets to hold her and such. This will show your family that your wife is your equal. That baby is hers too.
Personally there are few precautions I would take if I were you. One don't let them know when the baby is born. Wait until you are all home from the hospital. Then answer the birth. Two, don't take the baby around to meet the family. Make them come to you. Three, let your wife physically introduce your daughter and decide who gets to hold her and such. This will show your family that your wife is your equal. That baby is hers too.
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Join Date: Jul 2013
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I like the "make them come to you" idea! Thanks happybeingme.
Kialua, I remember that post specifically. I would only hope that someday my child would thank me for keeping the crazy out.
my mother said, "they'll be in the same town as their uncles, cousins, etc and not see them?"
and my answer would be a simple, "yes".
Plus, it seems like only a total access to my child would be acceptable. That is to say, I would have to let EVERYONE around. Me being selective (keeping certain people out) was very upsetting to her.
I eventually said that I WILL DECIDE along with my wife what contact will occur. I understand that I might have some people upset with my decision. I guess I will have to live with that. More accurately, I WILL live with it.
Kialua, I remember that post specifically. I would only hope that someday my child would thank me for keeping the crazy out.
my mother said, "they'll be in the same town as their uncles, cousins, etc and not see them?"
and my answer would be a simple, "yes".
Plus, it seems like only a total access to my child would be acceptable. That is to say, I would have to let EVERYONE around. Me being selective (keeping certain people out) was very upsetting to her.
I eventually said that I WILL DECIDE along with my wife what contact will occur. I understand that I might have some people upset with my decision. I guess I will have to live with that. More accurately, I WILL live with it.
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,785
She is trying to get you to take the guilt and the blame for the dysfunction of the family. You are the scapegoat.
Since you won’t own it, she is trying other means to get to the same point, that it is all your fault. That is why she keeps going in circles. They can’t blame each other, they need a fall guy and it appears that you are the chosen one.
I said this once and I will say it again. You are the healthy sane one of the group. Keep it that way!
Since you won’t own it, she is trying other means to get to the same point, that it is all your fault. That is why she keeps going in circles. They can’t blame each other, they need a fall guy and it appears that you are the chosen one.
I said this once and I will say it again. You are the healthy sane one of the group. Keep it that way!
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,437
Believe me I never thought I would hear a thank you for keeping her from my foo but now that she is an adult it just happened. I didn't do it for the hope of her thanking me one day though. My mind was made up no matter what she thought or wanted. Keep the crazies away. When I had foo over I had a strict NO alcohol policy and they all know it. That worked many wonders; no one had any big meltdowns, they didn't like hanging around and would stay only around 2 hours, I didn't have any big messes to clean up. And I can count on one hand the number of times I have had foo over in the last 25 years! It's your kingdom, rule with wisdom.
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: east coast
Posts: 1,332
I think what's important to remember that your wife and daughter are your family now. They come first. Like I said if I knew then what I know now things would have been much different. Due to my husband's family dysfunction known of us speak to each other. Having them in our children's lives did no good. We wound up having to try to explain all the dysfunction to them.
Then there is my mom. She was truly the best grandma ever. Now my kids are adults and she treats them like she treats me. Just more people to caretake and feed her dysfunction. My kids have no relationship with her now. It is sad.
Then there is my mom. She was truly the best grandma ever. Now my kids are adults and she treats them like she treats me. Just more people to caretake and feed her dysfunction. My kids have no relationship with her now. It is sad.
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Originally Posted by thotful 
I was having a nice lunch with my mother and I was talking about how much better I feel (she asked me if I go to my counselor still). She said she thought my counselor was a little "squirrel" and didn't like him.
about my plans to introduce my child to "THE FAMILY".... I admitted that it's very likely that my siblings and parents will not like the decision that I make. That they will be quite upset with me. THat I might have to accept that. That I will believe that their approval of my decisions will COME SECOND to my child's safety and well-being. THat I will protect my child. I, my wife, AND my child will have to be accepted.
about my plans to introduce my child to "THE FAMILY".... I admitted that it's very likely that my siblings and parents will not like the decision that I make. That they will be quite upset with me. THat I might have to accept that. That I will believe that their approval of my decisions will COME SECOND to my child's safety and well-being. THat I will protect my child. I, my wife, AND my child will have to be accepted.
As for the siblings, they'll claim they have a "right" to see their little niece/nephew as often as they want, on their own terms, like any "normal" family, blah-blah. Well, you're well within your rights to tell them to shove it -- or however nice you want to be. Why do people think they have inherent rights regarding other family members? Or that you have to answer their phone calls, texts, e-mail, social media Friend Requests (the WORST), etc., etc.? You have every right to turn off the phone, not show up at the July 4th picnic, and even fail to buy everyone a Christmas present -- horrors!
This is your life, thot -- you get to do it your way! The Crazy FOO has no right to order you around, just because of an accident of birth that made you "related" to them!
T
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My two daughters don't go around either of our FOOs. My husband's family seemed normal enough...until we had kids. Then his mom really went to crazy town. My youngest daughter (a few months shy of 2 years old) has only seen MIL & FIL once when she was a newborn and that was the last time my 3 year old saw them as well. My MIL tries to do what your mom is doing, cut me - the middle man - out of the picture and manipulate RAH into bringing our daughters to her. RAH knows that I will go ballistic if he takes our daughters around people that I do not approve of. This is one boundary that is WELL understood in our family. MIL is used to successfully manipulating RAH to do what she wants, usually with guilt and shame as the motivators.
My mom saw my girls last summer before my mom told me that she didn't want to have a relationship with me but only with my kids and since then she has been no contact with both of my kids. Unfortunately, my 3 year old talks fondly of grandma and asks me questions about her all the time. :| I still haven't figured out a graceful way to handle the situation.
When my girls are old enough to make their own decisions then they can decide whether or not they want to have a relationship with our FOOs. My mom is normal enough to me because I grew up with her, but to anyone else, she's easy to spot as a complete a-hole. I figure if my girls don't grow up hearing grandma belittle me and talk crap about me and then it happens one day, they're going to figure out on their own that grandma is an a-hole...if they choose to know grandma in the first place.
I'm very mama bear about my kids and I never would have guessed that I would have been this way until after my kids were born. I think this is going to be one of those things that you're going to feel out after the birth and a lot of that is going to be based on how your wife is feeling both emotionally and physically.
Congrats, btw!!
My mom saw my girls last summer before my mom told me that she didn't want to have a relationship with me but only with my kids and since then she has been no contact with both of my kids. Unfortunately, my 3 year old talks fondly of grandma and asks me questions about her all the time. :| I still haven't figured out a graceful way to handle the situation.
When my girls are old enough to make their own decisions then they can decide whether or not they want to have a relationship with our FOOs. My mom is normal enough to me because I grew up with her, but to anyone else, she's easy to spot as a complete a-hole. I figure if my girls don't grow up hearing grandma belittle me and talk crap about me and then it happens one day, they're going to figure out on their own that grandma is an a-hole...if they choose to know grandma in the first place.
I'm very mama bear about my kids and I never would have guessed that I would have been this way until after my kids were born. I think this is going to be one of those things that you're going to feel out after the birth and a lot of that is going to be based on how your wife is feeling both emotionally and physically.
Congrats, btw!!
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
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Originally Posted by NWGRITS
No Contact. Problem solved.
It sounds like a really stressful family dynamic, one in which you and your perspective and experience gets very little recognition.
One of gifts of my recovery has been learning that it doesn't matter if 'they' recognize where I'm coming from. I guess that's the detachment part. This tranquility of not caring/letting go, of knowing I can't control their feelings their thoughts their actions, and knowing that they can't effect my feelings my thoughts my actions unless I give them permission to do so. I know you know all this but I'm just enjoying it with you I guess.
There's a line in Melody Beattie's companion to the CODA 12 steps, in step one that I will paraphrase - I am responsible for stopping my pain, and for setting the boundaries I need to set. (I would add to this, I only have to explain those boundaries once, and maybe in writing so that it's clear - after that I'm not going to repeatedly go into what they are and why over and over again because that defeats the point)
This came in handy recently with my situation with my cousin!
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Yes, my mother is able to pull on me to some extent. She is clearly losing her grip and it really aggravates her. I have made significant strides in detaching. Saying clearly to her face that this was my decision has not been my typical MO.
I look forward to the next step (and next and next) where I make even more progress.
Like, for example, saying "my estranged siblings are welcome to discuss with my wife and I the extent of their contact with our child." and boom, close conversation. I'll need to do some work on that.
or, pointing out that she's trying to fight someone else's battle and they are welcome to fight it.
Progress, not perfection, right?
I look forward to the next step (and next and next) where I make even more progress.
Like, for example, saying "my estranged siblings are welcome to discuss with my wife and I the extent of their contact with our child." and boom, close conversation. I'll need to do some work on that.
or, pointing out that she's trying to fight someone else's battle and they are welcome to fight it.
Progress, not perfection, right?
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Ugh. I am sorry you are having to go through that.
I have a friend who's mother is just like this. Said friend's brother slept w/friend's son's wife. Yes, that is it. The uncle slept w/nephew's wife. The mother WILL NOT stop trying to get said family back together, even though it's broken. She just does not let up.
She finally explained that she does know it was awful, but that she is not getting any younger and that it breaks her heart to see her family not get along.
Said family had to explain back that there are some situations that they will not bend on. That they acknowledge and respect how she feels, but that she must do the same for them.
Maybe you could say something like that to your mom. That you acknowledge that this is how she feels, but that you and your wife don't have the same opinions and that is just fine. However, this is your child and that will be your #1 concern from here on out.
Stand your ground, if you don't, it will only become worse as your child gets older.
XXX
I have a friend who's mother is just like this. Said friend's brother slept w/friend's son's wife. Yes, that is it. The uncle slept w/nephew's wife. The mother WILL NOT stop trying to get said family back together, even though it's broken. She just does not let up.
She finally explained that she does know it was awful, but that she is not getting any younger and that it breaks her heart to see her family not get along.
Said family had to explain back that there are some situations that they will not bend on. That they acknowledge and respect how she feels, but that she must do the same for them.
Maybe you could say something like that to your mom. That you acknowledge that this is how she feels, but that you and your wife don't have the same opinions and that is just fine. However, this is your child and that will be your #1 concern from here on out.
Stand your ground, if you don't, it will only become worse as your child gets older.
XXX
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Hi Thotful,
Your mom may be of an age that she is not going to learn recovery techniques and your viewpoint of the FOO. Your mom has seen you initiate some boundaries that deeply threatens her family as a unit. She can only speak with the language she has... she may have a fantasy of everyone United and getting along and you would be her wedge in achieving what her idea of family is... Of course FOO is going to sound negative to her. She gets lumped in and loses the positive connotations of the word family.
But your mom isn't really your problem other than being Codie? Isn't it dad and brothers?
I think you should reassure your mom that she will have a relationship with this future grandchild. I suspect that is her deepest fear. She does not want to be cut off from you or your child. By advocating for the entire family, she can hide this deep anxiety.
Now the way I would do this is bring that message through your wife. Discuss a plan with her that she is comfortable with on how baby and your mom will get an opportunity to grow a relationship. Let new momma set the the plan in action.
For example, I have a friend who her MIL comes over once a week night. Sometimes for dinner, then does the night routine with baby. Bath and read a book. Then she heads off. She now loves the break as she gets some laundry done and pays the bills. She throws a crockpot meal together that night for the next... It works for them really well.
I think you two can think about how to make your mom feel like a grandmother with this child despite the FOO boundaries in place.
Peace.
Your mom may be of an age that she is not going to learn recovery techniques and your viewpoint of the FOO. Your mom has seen you initiate some boundaries that deeply threatens her family as a unit. She can only speak with the language she has... she may have a fantasy of everyone United and getting along and you would be her wedge in achieving what her idea of family is... Of course FOO is going to sound negative to her. She gets lumped in and loses the positive connotations of the word family.
But your mom isn't really your problem other than being Codie? Isn't it dad and brothers?
I think you should reassure your mom that she will have a relationship with this future grandchild. I suspect that is her deepest fear. She does not want to be cut off from you or your child. By advocating for the entire family, she can hide this deep anxiety.
Now the way I would do this is bring that message through your wife. Discuss a plan with her that she is comfortable with on how baby and your mom will get an opportunity to grow a relationship. Let new momma set the the plan in action.
For example, I have a friend who her MIL comes over once a week night. Sometimes for dinner, then does the night routine with baby. Bath and read a book. Then she heads off. She now loves the break as she gets some laundry done and pays the bills. She throws a crockpot meal together that night for the next... It works for them really well.
I think you two can think about how to make your mom feel like a grandmother with this child despite the FOO boundaries in place.
Peace.
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I wish it were the case that all my mother wanted was to be in my child's life. No, her voice went "up", her face got contorted, when she figured out what I would decide. "Are you saying that me, your sister, etc, but your brother 1 and brother 2 would be excluded? they love little kiddies and they would feel cut out" - (she went on about how I haven't forgiven, have a grudge, etc).
I kind of laugh at that, because I feel "cut out" myself right now. Fascinating that it all comes back to their feelings and how bad they'll feel. There's no mention whatsoever about how my wife and I feel RIGHT NOW.
I try not to conjecture on what's going on with my mom. But most definitely, it seems that she finds it very threatening that I make decisions about individual people and not the whole "family". I think maybe she might be trying to protect my brother? or, maybe it's about her fantasy vision of all her children, grandchildren playing at HER holidays where she's at the center. She gets NO ATTENTION whatsoever from my father. I think controlling others might be her way to cope.
Anyways, I'm not participating in her illusion. She knows very well that she is welcome in my life, will be in my daughter's life, etc. I'm just not bringing my child over to her sunday dinners, thanksgivings, xmases, blah, blah for my family-of-origin/tribunal to decide on approval. Yuck. H8ll no. I guess it freaks her out to no longer have control over the "image" of our ONE HAPPY FAMILY. What a big stinkin' lie. They can keep that dishonest image, while I piece myself back together and make my own life - own rules.
I kind of laugh at that, because I feel "cut out" myself right now. Fascinating that it all comes back to their feelings and how bad they'll feel. There's no mention whatsoever about how my wife and I feel RIGHT NOW.
I try not to conjecture on what's going on with my mom. But most definitely, it seems that she finds it very threatening that I make decisions about individual people and not the whole "family". I think maybe she might be trying to protect my brother? or, maybe it's about her fantasy vision of all her children, grandchildren playing at HER holidays where she's at the center. She gets NO ATTENTION whatsoever from my father. I think controlling others might be her way to cope.
Anyways, I'm not participating in her illusion. She knows very well that she is welcome in my life, will be in my daughter's life, etc. I'm just not bringing my child over to her sunday dinners, thanksgivings, xmases, blah, blah for my family-of-origin/tribunal to decide on approval. Yuck. H8ll no. I guess it freaks her out to no longer have control over the "image" of our ONE HAPPY FAMILY. What a big stinkin' lie. They can keep that dishonest image, while I piece myself back together and make my own life - own rules.
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