Patk

Hi All,

I know this forum is for everyone to share so I apologize for the long post, but I would appreciate some advice or feedback.

I am a recovering alcholic (3 months sobriety) and an ACOA (both parents were alcoholics). I have been fired from several jobs over my 25+ years in the workforce, have changed jobs and careers more times than I would like to admit, and during my 20's, I moved from apartment to apartment, city to city never putting down any real roots. I did finally manage to finish an undergrad degree and later in my late 30's a graduate degree. My convolued resume has caused justified concern with potential employers during job interviews. I would like to know if anyone else out there has been as confused and erratic as I have been in choosing and staying in one major in one univeristy, and choosing a career path and sticking with it, and living in one place for a reasonable amount of time before moving somewhere else. If so, do you attribute this crazy behavior to being an ACOA or an alcoholic?

In addition to my crazy employment history, I have just as sordid academic background, which causes me to continue to feel terrible and experience painful emotions of the past, which still resonate with me. Why now? Well I have spent the past 3-4 weeks really devoting myself entirely to Journaling my past successes, failures, good memories and bad, not holding back anything. It has been painful to say the least. I do agree with the comments you all made; thanks. In addition to the issue of musical careers and inconsistent work history is my pathetic education background.

To sum it all up, I did finish an undergraduate degree at a Canadian university, but it took me 9 years to do so. I attended 4 different universities, and changed programs, if I recall correctly, twice. I dropped out of the university I finally got my business degree from 3 times. I did not get any support from my parents. Actually they made it even more difficult me to get student loans since they were going through a divorce, and my father was reluctant to sign the financial details of the guardian section on the loan application for fear of my mother's lawyer getting a hold of it and sucking more $ out of him.

I attended another university for an academic year. I worked in the graduate student pub and enjoyed the year, but passed only 2 classes out of the five I enrolled in September. I then moved to Toronto and signed up for classes for the sole purpose to get student loans to live off of. I know this was terribly irresponsible and I paid dearly for this lack of good judgement years later with so many incomplete/failures on my academic transcripts.

In the last year of high school my parents split and my life became a mess. I ended up having to redo some courses the next year. I went away to a university and was the first person in my family to do so; my two older brother lived at home while attending the local universities. I did ok academically that first year and with a few guy on the same floor in the residence I stayed in, we agreed to share a house come next academic year. That was 1982, and that summer there was a bad recession in Ontario. I bounced around hitching car rides from town to town looking for work, and to get away from the crazy mother I was staying with for the summer. I ended up working about 3-4 weeks and had saved little money. A week before I was to move down to the town where school was I called one of the guys I was to live with. He asked me if I had actually made any money that summer and I said not a lot, but I would be eligible for student loans and bursaries. He basically said that he and the other guys did not want to be responsible for paying for my food, rent, clothing, and so I was no longer part of the living arrangement. I was devastated and had no idea what to do. A friend heard about some other guys who were looking for a roommate, and just a few days before classes were to commence went down to live with these guys I had never met before. They turned out to be great guys, but I never was able to pick myself up, brush myself off and move on. Just 8 weeks alter I dropped out. The feelings of confusion and going it on your own reminded me of the last year of high school when my parents split up, and they decided in their infinite dysfunctional wisdom that out of the 5 kids I should go live with my grandmother to "relive the stress at home." I never did actually go to live with her. In the car on the way to her house I wrestled the steering wheel away from my dad, pulled the car over, got out and ran away to a friend's family's house where I stayed for 2 weeks. My parents later decided for me to go live with my mom when she moved out, and I moved into her apartment on a memorable night-Christmas Eve!

That last year of high school, Grade 13 I was so confused, had no one to talk to in order to try and deal with the ****. What bothered me most was my mother and father never had the guts to sit down in a family meeting and tell everyone about what they were planning.

I was also so embarrassed when I would run into former classmates who looked at me as a total loser; they were moving on in their academic endeavors, graduating, and I was spinning my wheels...Many would make insensitive and cutting putdowns like "are you trying to attend every university in Ontario or something?" Years later when I finally did get my business degree in 1990 ( I began university in the fall of 1981), and graduate school in 1998, I would have my academic transcripts looked over my employers in job interviews who could not fathom what I was doing all those nomadic, directionless years of post-secondary life. Many potential employers in job interviews would comment how this inconsistent, disjointed work and academic history that was presented to them on paper indicated someone who is not loyal, who is unstable, and therefore not suitable for employment at their school-I'm a teacher.

Many supportive friends remind me that I did, although it took so long, finish my degree, and I paid my own way (which is only partially true since I relied so heavily on student loans and incurred a huge debt after graduating). However, some of the most humiliating job interviews were when I tried to point this achievement out to the interviewer, who did not consider it an achievement (i.e. four universities over the course of nine years to obtain a four year Honors Bachelor of Business Administration).

I still am haunted by the chaos and turbulence of my twenties. I don't think either of my alcoholic parents were even cognizant of my academic plight.

Like my bouncing around from job to job and place of residence and city to city, the academic part of my past is very emotionally charged and I feel bad about it. Any input or advice or perspective about how to move on would be appreciated.





Patk

GiveLove

I did have similar experiences, patk. I'm ACOA but not an alcoholic. I changed jobs often, and could not keep myself on the path to higher education either...I am just now finishing up the bachelor's degree that I could not finish in my 20's. I do attribute it to the chaos and uncertainty of my upbringing, and my need to constantly search for the right situation that "felt right."

I did eventually -- consciously, with great effort -- stay in one job for 10 years, and left it to start my own small business, which has been going now for 10 more. I never would've thought either of these things possible...I just knew I had to do it in order to get the "loser" tag off my shoulders, and prove myself wrong in my assumptions that I was hopeless. (It was very, very hard at times, because I just wanted to fall into the safe cocoon of my old habits again) And as I mentioned, am now finishing a degree in a field I have a lot of passion for.

These two things - this kind of closure -- seems to have slain the dragons, and I now feel much more normal. And without the weight of failure on my shoulders, I can do much more. It's a self-perpetuating growth curve.

What is your current situation? The past is done....you can do whatever you want with the present. Can you use your present in some way, in order to prove yourself wrong too, be someone different and better?

guiab

Hi PatK,
I am also ACOA (both parents alcoholic, not alcoholic myself) and have had trouble staying in one place, in one job, in one relationship for many years.
I have had 2 jobs for 4 to 6 years plus a grad degree up until I decided to go into teaching in 2003, but during that time I had a few years of drifting and numerous short-term jobs. Since '03 I have been a seasonal academic, working in outdoor education, a private school, and as adjunct faculty. I am hoping to get a full time job in the next year, in a high school or community college, but with the economy who knows.
My biggest problem has sitting still, and getting my brain to sit still, at any current job. I get this sense of fearful dread and foreboding whenever I have something really important to work on. If I have to make up a test, I work on my taxes. If taxes are due (I haven't filed for 08 taxes yet) I work on tests. It is incredibly frustrating. It is hard to describe, but it is a demon that drives me to avoid working on THE MOST IMPORTANT thing in front of me.
I have also never had an intimate relationship last more than 10 months. And I am 47! I tend to get very passive agressive with girlfriends, and employers too.

Over the last year I have been attending Al-anon regularly and the steps have proven useful. That little ACOA child learned early to avoid the most important problem (destruction of my own well-being by bizarre parent behavior) and to use passive-agression as a weapon of control, expectations and resentment. I am slowly learning to give up this completely ineffective weapon and turn that fear and the desire to have things go my way over to a HP. It takes time, though, and I finally have a alanon sponsor to help work the steps.

You are making progress by admitting the problem and coming here for help. Keep posting

Iwanttoheal

Hi PatK

Welcome to SR. I am another ACAO. I had an alcoholic father (he died 21 years ago), and have a codependent mother and an alcoholic / ACAO brother.

I can so relate to a chaotic academic and working life. Mine started with immense pressure to do well.My father started putting pressure on me to go to university when I was 13, I had no choice in the matter, it was a given that I would go and I complied with the expectation. My brother who chose to leave school and go to work was never forgiven. He was never good enough - it doesn't seem to register that he is the most successful member of the family in terms of his career.

The expectations were high. I was a good student but I could always do better. I achieved an upper second class BSc with honours - my mother "She was only a few points off a first class degree, you know" :wtf2. Unspoken message, it wasn't good enough. At my degree ceremony I was in that much emotional pain, my achievement had lost any sense of meaning.

My second qualification was 18 years later in teaching. My mother positively "fed" off this one. There was no recognition of my hard work and achievement. It was all about the fact her daughter finally had a job with "status" and wasn't she such a brilliant person because her daughter was "up there". I mean, they couldn't have done that bad a job and must have been good parents if I became a teacher, right. Her thinking is so screwed up and I am fighting myself not to run away from the best job I've ever had because it feels like she has somehow poisoned it (at least I recognise that my own thinking is screwed up in this matter).

My own working history is all over the place - full-time work, part-time work, temporary work, self-employment. You name it, I've had a go at it. The longest I've lastest in any job is 3 years. Even in a job, I cannot settle in one place or one routine for long. I am always wanting to change role or change hours.

It is only NOW that I am gaining clarity on what I am doing. I thought I was bored - WRONG. I was unwittingly recreating chaos in my working life. If things were going well, I would create upset, drama, tension, stress, I was unknowingly recreating patterns of familiartity.

The good thing is that I now recognise this. At the height of our recent family dramas, I had the most overwhelming urge to apply for yet another, new job. I clamped down on this and just stayed in the moment. I was able to recognise that the last thing I needed was yet another "fix" of upset, drama and tension.

Please keep posting and sharing, IWTHxxx

tromboneliness

Wow -- this looks like yet another ACOA thread running through my life. I have two college degrees (21 years apart), a pretty good skill set, and experience at some pretty good companies, but am having a h3ll of a time trying to make a career change, from the field I worked in for most of the past 24 years (technical writing) to a new field (accounting).

Part of the problem, I think, is that potential employers look at my resume and see a ton of short-term jobs on it. Most of them were contract/consulting gigs that lasted anywhere from a few months to a couple of years -- and that is not what they probably want to see in an accountant.

The longest I've stayed in any one job was about four years. But it had never occurred to me that this may have had to do with ACOA, my childhood, and that aspect of things. Not sure if I'm "unwittingly recreating chaos in my working life" or if I just get bored as a technical writer, but it's possible that that's what's going on....

T

worthyoflove

I can TOTALLY relate to this. I was going to college when my AF kicked me out of the house. Any time I tried to get my degree or a certificate, my family would find a way to pull the rug out from under me. I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong. I worked at a company where my boss would call me and yell at me because I didn't wake him up for a meeting. He had a client call me to harass me because he thought it was funny. I left to keep my sanity. I get another job and and the manager punches me in my arm and tells me he hits his kids even harder. His former company has a lawsuit filed because of what he did to a former colleague. I was so scared that I walked off the job. I'm hoping to start my own business because I am sick and tired of the crap that goes on. One of these days I willl finish my degree and I'll make sure my family doesn't know about it.

Iwanttoheal

Hi WOL,

I hope you will take that step to finish your degree, sending you lots of strength and... do you know what, when you do, you will have done it all by yourself just for you - that will be a fabulous achievement.

Isn't it funny how these threads make you think and remember and little things fall into place...

My first job immediately after I qualified was in a toxic environment. I'll never forget my interview, I was so happy, it all felt just right. Yip, I was unconsciously seeking familiarity and had found it, bingo!!!

My first boss, a woman, was a verbal, abusive bully - I was so scared of that woman. I used to be physically sick before going into work and one night after a holiday, I lay awake the whole night paralysed with fear about going into work the next day. Even though I was 23, I remember being desperate for my parents to "rescue" me.

But...

Hey, guess what, there were far too many important problems going on at home and they were far more important than me. I really for sorry for 23 year old IWTH, she really believed that she was not as important as her parents. She had been well conditioned to believe that her needs were not important.

This story gets even sadder. There was 23 year old IWTH on her knees because she couldn't cope and along comes AF. By this time AF had developed throat cancer (he was a smoker as well) and was receiving in-patient treatment miles away from home but very close to where codie daughter was working. Yet again, his needs overrode those of his daughter. He used to spend lots of evenings and EVERY weekend with me because HE hated being in the hopsital. WHAT about my needs? The down-time that I needed to recover from an abusive working environment was being used to take care of alcoholic father who had cancer.

Why didn't you say no to your father? Why didn't you leave your abusive job?
I hear you say.

Well I couldn't have told you before today but now I know...

23 year old IWTH never said no because she had learnt from her environment and codie mother to ENDURE PAIN. She had also learnt that it was her place to TAKE CARE OF HER PARENTS and that HER OWN NEEDS WERE NOT IMPORTANT.

That poor abused young woman who was me. My heart aches for her. This was such a painful period in my life (yes one of many). Okay, my alcoholic father didn't like the hospital but he didn't have to hang around my neck for three months when I was trying to cope with an untenable job. And... where was codie mother, why wasn't she looking after AF, oh yes, she was back at home and she could stay back at home because daughter had yet again unwittingly assumed the parental responsibility just like she had at 11 when codie mother couldn't cope and had to take to her bed and young IWTH used to cook for her brother.

Eeeehh, my childhood was cr*p and this period of my life stinks. But you know what - everyone repeat after me, you all know the song - it wasn't ttthhhhaaaaattttt bbbbbaaaaaddddd (cynicism creeping in now).

I'll stop waffling now, IWTHxxx

dothi

Hi Patk, I'm also from the recent "have-not" province of Ontario. (I think we're supposed to be out of the reccession now, right?)

I think you've got a lot of good info just in your post here to help smooth over your work history.

(1) No financial support - it's not unheard of for people to take a break from school because they've run out of $$$ and don't have parental support. That's what I would say if an employer inquired. You could even also say, "well I was young and had a really hard time figuring out what I wanted to do. So I took some time off to figure it out, and eventually came back to finish because I realize now this is a good fit for me. yadda yadda ya... something to that effect."

(2) passing 2/5 classes. Don't put this on your resume or highlight it. Unless you're applying for academic jobs, most employers aren't interested in how your courses went. They're more interested in how your past jobs went. Besides, there's a lot of people out there who totally flunked and still found work. Don't let this be your mental roadblock when you envision future success.

(3) 9 years to do a 4 year degree. You could say that life came up. Family came up. Again you weren't sure if this was the career path for you. You took some time off, tried other things, and eventually went back to finish. You're feeling like it's time to settle down and want to quit the travelling lifestyle. etc. etc. etc. Now that you know the 9 year degree isn't a selling point, don't point it out or bring it up anymore. Have an answer ready in case they ask. But don't let this be the only selling point you have going for you.

(4) Most importantly, this:

Quote:

the academic part of my past is very emotionally charged and I feel bad about it

Leave that shame behind when you go to the interview, and stop beating yourself up. How? By telling yourself that you know you DID persevere. Remove the expectation that employers will understand. Unfortunately they won't, and they won't be all that interested either. They are only interested in who you are professionally, so that's the mindset you need to be in when you're answering questions. That's also why you've got to check your ACOA bag at the door when you walk in - leave the personal stuff outside.

I highly recommend you find the nearest Service Canada Center (government building - probably the human resources or development department). They have resume and interview workshops. Be (reasonably) aggressive, make an appointment, and ask an employment counsellor to sit down with you and go step-by-step through your work history. Have your resume printed, and put stars beside all the jobs/skills/etc that you feel worried about. Ask them how to put a positive spin on your not-so-fine points. Get their feedback on how best to sell yourself for that question: "what makes you think you're the best candidate for this job?" Once again, your 9-yr degree is NOT the answer to this question.

A big ACOA issue that comes into the interview process is the fear of authority figures - that if you don't confess your worst qualities here and now, then boy are you going to get it when they eventually find out. This is a self-sabatoging ability of ACOAs. We live in frequent fear of being "found out" and then harshly, harshly judged. Yes, your employer is judging you to see how well you will suit the position, but believe me, they don't have an angry mob outside waiting to lynch "the fraud" inside.

Yes, employers want success, but they also want self-awareness in their employees. If you can demonstrate in the interview that you know how to manage yourself, e.g. "I'm a terrible planner, so I make it a habit to always write things in a schedule book in order to keep track of things" - this kind of stuff. Once again, NOT "I took 9 years to do a degree, but I'm not really sure why and it would be too complicated to explain." (and yes, I'm picking on your degree because it's clear that it's really, really bothering you)

If this hasn't helped, then at least think of all the criminals, bullies, and just plain idiots who have gotten jobs without perservering as you have. You know you deserve your spot. By hell you've earned it. So don't, don't, DON'T sell yourself short.

Job hunting is tough and terribly brutal on the self-esteem. Don't internalize the failed job opportunities. Just like an addict, don't take it personally as though you have nothing to offer. Whether you're a former CEO or a Timmy's coffee server, when you have to look for work it's very hard on your self-worth. It's very hard not to take the rejection personally.

Finally, if you're worried about not looking committed, consider volunteer work. Depending on what you're going in for, find something that aligns with your personal interested (e.g. hockey - be a volunteer ref, environmental - volunteer for a conservation authority, etc.). Think of it as an investment in your career development. Volunteer work shows you have the ability to commit, especially because it's unpaid and on your own time.

I would definitely bet that you're upbringing has a lot to do with moving around. It really sounds to me like you haven't had the experience of being happy in one place long enough to want to stay there. I really hope this changes for you.

bluebelle

Both my parents are addicts/alcoholics. I have also been depressed about my work/academic history. It seems like I have changed majors/careers so many times. I am working right now, but I am in a low-paying job, and am not very happy with it. I think that I have had a hard time picking the right jobs. I seem to end up in the same situation--overbearing bosses. I know that I am nervous around authority figures, and that doesn't help my job situation/interviews.

I think you should focus on the positive. You did finish school, despite the obstacles that you faced. That shows perseverance and hard work. I'm sure that there is the right job out there for you. It's just really frustrating right now because the economy stinks.

Brazil

I just found this forum today, but already I can see my time here is long overdue. Like you, I'm ashamed of my work and academic background. I'm in my mid-30s now, but what I have to show for it is almost nothing. I dropped out of college and have a laundry list of various jobs left in my wake. My resume is a disaster. Some jobs were really awful, but mostly I just found things about each one that I magnified unreasonably as justification for leaving. Researching ACOA has helped me realize I was the problem all along (not the jobs). My 20s were nothing if not a case of starting something, quitting something, rinsing and repeating the same behavior, whether jobs, relationships, or creative endeavours. I'm an ACOA who's struggled off and on with substance abuse, but that's not really my biggest issue. The psych component of this is what's keeping me down. I can't offer you advice (yet) since I'm struggling with the same issue, but I wanted to chime in to let you know I felt like I was reading a synopsis of my own life.

Patk

Hi Everyone,

I would like to thank you all so much for taking the time to write such kind, thoughtful, insightful and supportive replies to my post. I would like to know if there any books you could recommend I buy to help me work on some of my personal ssues I alluded to. Some of the books I have read are:

AA-The Big Book
Homecoming-John Bradshaw
The 12 Steps for Adult Children (Recovery Publication) revised edition
Becoming Your Own Parent-Dennis Wholey
"It Will Never Happen to Me"-Claudia Black
The Complete ACOA Sourcebook-Janet G. Woititz

And the last one is a book my last psychiatrist recommended I read "Overcoming Low Self-Esteem." -Melanie Fennell

Thank You All Very Much!

Patk

Helenlee

Man, I see you as a success, a survivor!!! In spite of all the crap you had to dig yourself out from under, you kept going. That's awsome! You should be congratulated for constantly finding solutions & getting back up every time you were knocked down. I don't know what you teach, but I do know there is a very important place for people with your experience in schools. My 16 year old daughter has been dragged up in a very dysfunctional environment all her life & struggles at school every day. I thank God whenever she comes across a teacher that seems to have some insight into what she's enduring & gives her a bit of a break or some encouragement. Sometimes I'm so grateful I just want to KISS them You have the ability to make a difference in some young lives that desperatley need it. So give YOURSELF a break, look at how much you've learned from your difficulties, & get out there & make the difference that only you can. You have a gift to share

DesertEyes

One of my fav books is "From Survival to Recovery: Growing Up in an Alcoholic Home"

Amazon.com: From Survival to Recovery: Growing Up in an Alcoholic Home (9780910034975): Al-Anon Family Group Head Inc: Books

Mike

guiab

Quote from Dothi:
I am more or less repeating what Dothi said here: regarding our selves, our past, and our future we ACOA's tend to say and hear the most self-sabotaging things.
Everyone has a skeleton in their closet, but in the case of ACOA's we make a mouse skeleton look like a T-Rex. And when someone say's 'you don't meet some of our qualifications', we sometimes imagine we hear the guillotine being rolled up outside the building.
I am seconding many people here by saying that you have persevered. I have met a number of adults who dropped out of college and never went back, and regretted it.

It is a tough economy. As Dothi suggested go to the gov't offices and use their services. Your grad school, and maybe your undergrad school, may have some services too.
Hey, Ontario's not the worst place. As usual, the Maritimes are having it worse (I lived in Halifax for a few years).
You could also try having non-job interviews at places you would like to work. It can seem awkward to call and ask to 'just talk to someone', but you'd be surprised how many supervisors are happy to talk about their organization. Be honest and just tell them you are interested in learning about what the jobs are like and what they look for in an employee/teacher.

worthyoflove

Don't feel guilty!!!!!!! You just need to write down the truth on your resume, like I did with mine!

2007-2008 lighting company
Owner was addicted to prescription pain killers. He was being supplied by the red-haired guy at the front desk, who also was supplying it to the owner’s best friend, the Director of Operations. They liked going to ti**y bars too. That’s what the owner told me. I was laid off because all the drinking buddies got brand new cars when I was begging for a raise so I could pay my bills.
2006-2007 property management company
The property managers had a heck of a time reconciling rent payments, property management. Bills at the end of the month. They were going crazy, staying up all night trying to reconcile their property numbers. Their reports did not match. I pulled a report on my end and it was totally different. I sent it to one of the property managers and I don’t think the company was very pleased with my actions. Oh, and there were lots of lawsuits because of black mold in their apartments. I felt a little paranoid, just like I did at the other jobs.
2004-2005 laptop sales
Owner was on prescription pills. His friend was a doctor, so he was getting them
With an actual prescription! It’s all about who you know! Came to work one morning
And someone had been using my computer. They forgot to close the window to the porn
Site they were using. The owner would call me and was upset because I didn’t wake him
Up to be at a meeting on time. Poor guy. He was out at night clubs the night before, so
He was really tired.
2003-2004 yacht sales company
The manager had an awfully red face. He couldn’t stand the other manager and would Constantly tell me so. The other manager left because he couldn’t stand working with him anymore. I followed suit.
2002-2003 construction company
One of the employees was retiring, so the company decided to have a party for him. The women were not invited because there were strippers there. I’m glad the office manager placed an ad from a politician in my pay envelope. I wouldn’t have known to vote for!

I worked at a mortgage company, too. I wasn’t there long. I walked through the building to go to the office one morning and noticed someone had cut a hole into the wall of the office. All the computers were gone. Apparently, the owner owed someone money for his cocaine habit.

I know I look like a job hopper. I just can’t seem to concentrate. I am working on my concentration skills, but I am first working on why I feel so paranoid all the time.

dothi

Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life (by Susan Forward and Craig Buck) can be a nice, reassuring read

LiveLikeGold6

Simply lurking and grateful for this thread. Brazil, I can def relate 2 u. OP, I agree with every about this: start maximizing what u achieved and minimizing how long it took to get there. All the best