Unreasonable expectations
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Unreasonable expectations
Another thread on here got me to thinking about how our A's often set unreasonable expectations for us, and if we manage to meet them, they dismiss our accomplishments and set the bar higher for us, guaranteeing failure.
In particular, I was trying to remember the first instance of this behavior in my life. I was wondering how early on I could remember this pattern starting.
I was 3 or 4. I loved to read. I read Dr.Seuss books (I still love those books). One day when I was flipping through the books, I realized that I wasn't reciting the words from memory, but that I was actually reading! I was so proud of myself! I could read!
I went to my mom and told her I could read. She said "Well show me!" in a confrontational tone. I started reading one of my books. She replied "you just have that memorized, you're not really reading!" (negating my accomplishment). Then she threw a newspaper at me and said "Read This!" with a challenge in her eye (set the bar impossibly high). I could read some of the words, but not all of them. She told me "You can't read. You're just faking it."
I was not yet in preschool when that exchange occurred (and, yes, I still have a hard time with that particular memory and being able to accept it for what it was - and I still have to work very hard with anyone who says anything along the lines of 'that doesn't count' to me). 40 years later and my parents still try to pull that on me. Interestingly, the incidents of this nature that happen with my parents now don't bother me at all, but I still have a really hard time with the memories of the incidents that occurred when I was younger. Perhaps some day I will find peace with the past.
Can you recall how old you were when this behavior was first established in your life?
In particular, I was trying to remember the first instance of this behavior in my life. I was wondering how early on I could remember this pattern starting.
I was 3 or 4. I loved to read. I read Dr.Seuss books (I still love those books). One day when I was flipping through the books, I realized that I wasn't reciting the words from memory, but that I was actually reading! I was so proud of myself! I could read!
I went to my mom and told her I could read. She said "Well show me!" in a confrontational tone. I started reading one of my books. She replied "you just have that memorized, you're not really reading!" (negating my accomplishment). Then she threw a newspaper at me and said "Read This!" with a challenge in her eye (set the bar impossibly high). I could read some of the words, but not all of them. She told me "You can't read. You're just faking it."
I was not yet in preschool when that exchange occurred (and, yes, I still have a hard time with that particular memory and being able to accept it for what it was - and I still have to work very hard with anyone who says anything along the lines of 'that doesn't count' to me). 40 years later and my parents still try to pull that on me. Interestingly, the incidents of this nature that happen with my parents now don't bother me at all, but I still have a really hard time with the memories of the incidents that occurred when I was younger. Perhaps some day I will find peace with the past.
Can you recall how old you were when this behavior was first established in your life?
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Good Topic.
Doing dishes was my Dad's "obsession". It eventually became mine, which became a very sore topic in my marraige. We actually had to spend a few counseling sessions on this.
Around 12 or 13, it was my job to do the dishes after school and have them done before my parents got home (we had no dishwasher). I had to choose to go out and play with my friends or do the dishes. Often times I would do them at 4:55 before my parents got home a little after 5. They would still get mad at me saying "You just waited till the last minute didn't you?" It wasn't good enough to have them done before they got home, they complained about when I did them.
One time, I missed a spot on a dish, or something, I don't even remember. My dad began dirtying all of the dishes in the dish rack, and even began pulling pots and pans out of the cubboard. He made me wash all of the clean dishes again.
After going through counseling, I realized that doing dishes was the only way I could show love to my parents, especially my dad. If I didn't do the dishes, they wouldn't love me, if I did do the dishes, I would at least not make them angry. This false belief spilled into my marraige and I'm still working on it today.
Doing dishes was my Dad's "obsession". It eventually became mine, which became a very sore topic in my marraige. We actually had to spend a few counseling sessions on this.
Around 12 or 13, it was my job to do the dishes after school and have them done before my parents got home (we had no dishwasher). I had to choose to go out and play with my friends or do the dishes. Often times I would do them at 4:55 before my parents got home a little after 5. They would still get mad at me saying "You just waited till the last minute didn't you?" It wasn't good enough to have them done before they got home, they complained about when I did them.
One time, I missed a spot on a dish, or something, I don't even remember. My dad began dirtying all of the dishes in the dish rack, and even began pulling pots and pans out of the cubboard. He made me wash all of the clean dishes again.
After going through counseling, I realized that doing dishes was the only way I could show love to my parents, especially my dad. If I didn't do the dishes, they wouldn't love me, if I did do the dishes, I would at least not make them angry. This false belief spilled into my marraige and I'm still working on it today.
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The _earliest_ memory? I'll _never_ forget that one.
Dunno how old I was. I'm guessing 5 or 6 but I'm not sure. My mother drove me out to this huge building. Enormous doors, huge lawn out front, giant windows all over. She took me by the hand thru the front door and into this halway that went on forever. She stood me beside a huge door and told me to stand there and wait for her to come back.
She never came back. Turned out the building was the local elementary school. Took 'em several days to track down my parents and return me to them. Mother kept trying, dropping me off at grocery stores, department stores and such. I realize today that she was trying to get rid of me without just killing me, so I'm grateful to my HP for that.
I have met many people like her. Folks whose self esteem is so low they have to boost themselves up by putting other people down. The lower they can push somebody else the higher they feel. A child that cannot defend itself is the perfect victim. Today I can spot them before they even open their mouth. They have this disdainful look on their face, an arrogant walk, and a nit-pick attitude. They're bullies, using words as weapons.
There is something called "imprinting" that happens in animals. A baby animal learns lessons about the world that it never forgets. Like a baby duck will learn that "momma duck" is whatever face it sees when it first pops out of the egg, even if it is a human face. I think us people get imprinted to. I know I sure did. All that brainwashing that my parents forced upon me is still with me. The difference is that today I recognize it, and I can choose whether to remain a prisoner of their abuse or ignore it.
I have not found peace with the past, I decided that is not a goal I want for me. Instead I use my past as a reminder of why I want to improve _me_, so I never become like my parents. I keep those memories so I can share them with others who are just starting on this road of recovery. The "emotional wounds" I carry are medals, they help me deal with hardships today because I know I survived far worse things as a child.
When a cockroach gets in my kitchen I just kill it, toss the body in the trash, clean up the counter and move along with my life. I hold no resentment against the roach. It's just a bug, doing what bugs do. And I am an adult, doing what adults do to roaches. My parents were roaches in my childhood. I'm an adult now, and when those old brainwash feelings come up I kill 'em with the tools of recovery. Toss the feelings in the trash, clean up the mess with a couple meetings and a call to my sponsor and move along with my life.
Mike
Dunno how old I was. I'm guessing 5 or 6 but I'm not sure. My mother drove me out to this huge building. Enormous doors, huge lawn out front, giant windows all over. She took me by the hand thru the front door and into this halway that went on forever. She stood me beside a huge door and told me to stand there and wait for her to come back.
She never came back. Turned out the building was the local elementary school. Took 'em several days to track down my parents and return me to them. Mother kept trying, dropping me off at grocery stores, department stores and such. I realize today that she was trying to get rid of me without just killing me, so I'm grateful to my HP for that.
I have met many people like her. Folks whose self esteem is so low they have to boost themselves up by putting other people down. The lower they can push somebody else the higher they feel. A child that cannot defend itself is the perfect victim. Today I can spot them before they even open their mouth. They have this disdainful look on their face, an arrogant walk, and a nit-pick attitude. They're bullies, using words as weapons.
There is something called "imprinting" that happens in animals. A baby animal learns lessons about the world that it never forgets. Like a baby duck will learn that "momma duck" is whatever face it sees when it first pops out of the egg, even if it is a human face. I think us people get imprinted to. I know I sure did. All that brainwashing that my parents forced upon me is still with me. The difference is that today I recognize it, and I can choose whether to remain a prisoner of their abuse or ignore it.
I have not found peace with the past, I decided that is not a goal I want for me. Instead I use my past as a reminder of why I want to improve _me_, so I never become like my parents. I keep those memories so I can share them with others who are just starting on this road of recovery. The "emotional wounds" I carry are medals, they help me deal with hardships today because I know I survived far worse things as a child.
When a cockroach gets in my kitchen I just kill it, toss the body in the trash, clean up the counter and move along with my life. I hold no resentment against the roach. It's just a bug, doing what bugs do. And I am an adult, doing what adults do to roaches. My parents were roaches in my childhood. I'm an adult now, and when those old brainwash feelings come up I kill 'em with the tools of recovery. Toss the feelings in the trash, clean up the mess with a couple meetings and a call to my sponsor and move along with my life.
Mike
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I can spot them now too, Mike. I work with a person just like that. I'm having to train other people I work with using my own recovery tools so that they can cope with her. She'll take any opportunity she can to put other people down. It's really kind of pathetic, in an annoying irritating way.
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I don't know how old I was when I first experienced this behavior. I don't believe there was ever a time when I did not experience it. But I remember vividly the day it became impossible to ignore. My son was 8 and in a play with all 10 and 11 year olds. Despite being the youngest he was given the largest speaking part. He practiced very hard and delivered his lines flawlessly and with quite a bit of dramatic flare. And I have the video to prove it. ;o)
But as we started into the reception for cookies and punch, I heard my Dad pull him aside and say, "You done good but you messed up one time there didn't you?" It hit me full force that moment. I had to do everything I could to protect my child from this man's poisonious influence. And did you catch that? The man with the ability to crush my spirit over an A- in advanced placement English, literally said, "You done good."
But as we started into the reception for cookies and punch, I heard my Dad pull him aside and say, "You done good but you messed up one time there didn't you?" It hit me full force that moment. I had to do everything I could to protect my child from this man's poisonious influence. And did you catch that? The man with the ability to crush my spirit over an A- in advanced placement English, literally said, "You done good."
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Wow. This is the very core of the problem with my mother and me.
She has never ever ever said, "thank you", or encouraged me in any thing at all that I wanted to accomplish. I remember wanting to go to college at age 32. All I heard from her was how I would NOT be able to accomplish that. How I didn't need to do that, because it wouldn't make my life any better. It was awful, and I resented her not being happy for me.
I did go and finish with a 3.8, of course, but that is the one memory I have that seems to be the strongest of her expectations of me.
She still pulls this on me. I am still never thanked for anything. I am "expected" to do what so ever she wishes without having a will of my own.
Since I have been growing, I find my will is stronger than ever, and I do not bow to her expectations. I just say, "I am sorry you feel that way".
Thanks Ginger. This was actually a relief getting this out.
She has never ever ever said, "thank you", or encouraged me in any thing at all that I wanted to accomplish. I remember wanting to go to college at age 32. All I heard from her was how I would NOT be able to accomplish that. How I didn't need to do that, because it wouldn't make my life any better. It was awful, and I resented her not being happy for me.
I did go and finish with a 3.8, of course, but that is the one memory I have that seems to be the strongest of her expectations of me.
She still pulls this on me. I am still never thanked for anything. I am "expected" to do what so ever she wishes without having a will of my own.
Since I have been growing, I find my will is stronger than ever, and I do not bow to her expectations. I just say, "I am sorry you feel that way".
Thanks Ginger. This was actually a relief getting this out.
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You're welcome. I think I'm going to talk to my therapist about this at our next appointment. I'm fine with the negating my accomplishments *now*, but I still seem to have leftover hurt from the past ones and I'd like to learn how to get past those. Accepting them doesn't seem to be working. I need to find a different framework.
There are many more stories I have like this. In college, because I messed up my coursework, one term I had to take 23 credit hours. I got 5 As, a B and 2 'passes'. First thing my dad said when he saw my grades? "Why'd you get the B?". Yeah, cuz surviving taking 23 credit hours isn't enough, surviving it while nearly pulling straight A's isn't enough. *eyeroll*
There are many more stories I have like this. In college, because I messed up my coursework, one term I had to take 23 credit hours. I got 5 As, a B and 2 'passes'. First thing my dad said when he saw my grades? "Why'd you get the B?". Yeah, cuz surviving taking 23 credit hours isn't enough, surviving it while nearly pulling straight A's isn't enough. *eyeroll*
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I still remember the pizza incident.
I was about 10, and had found a cookbook and decided I wanted to learn to make pizza, help out with dinner and all that. My A stepmother was a stay-at-home-mom who watched soaps all day, so not sure where my head was, but....anyway, I followed the directions to the letter and made the sauce myself, rolled out the dough, the whole nine yards. No help, just me. Really proud of myself.
My ASM said, at the dinner table, "the tomato sauce tastes overcooked. you shouldn't cook it first. I can't eat this." She picked at one piece and left the table (my dad and brothers scarfed the rest, so it must not have been TOO poisonous)
That was the same year they got drunk and fought nightly until the middle of the night, and I brought home my one and only "C" of any class, ever. (I had straight A's all the way from elementary school through college.) My dad looked at my report card and said, "What's wrong with you? "C" isn't even "good" -- it's "average".
That kind of stuff affected me for many years. Now, when they creep into my mind I know I've just gotta turn that over to my HP, or to Artemis, or write them off as just a couple more idiots for the planet to feed. Honestly. Sounds harsh, I know, but it's been a lot easier to get rid of any residual effects since getting mad (in therapy) and writing them off as a couple of stupid, ignorant, self-centered drunks who didn't know the first thing about a young girl's self-esteem and who don't deserve the attention my mind is giving them. The self-protective anger flashes up and burns up any remnants of their cruelty, says, "your loss, jerk" and then the ashes blow away and I'm calm, centered, and happy again.
By the way, I make great pizza. And Ginger, congrats on your 23-credit grind. I don't think I could even come close to that
I was about 10, and had found a cookbook and decided I wanted to learn to make pizza, help out with dinner and all that. My A stepmother was a stay-at-home-mom who watched soaps all day, so not sure where my head was, but....anyway, I followed the directions to the letter and made the sauce myself, rolled out the dough, the whole nine yards. No help, just me. Really proud of myself.
My ASM said, at the dinner table, "the tomato sauce tastes overcooked. you shouldn't cook it first. I can't eat this." She picked at one piece and left the table (my dad and brothers scarfed the rest, so it must not have been TOO poisonous)
That was the same year they got drunk and fought nightly until the middle of the night, and I brought home my one and only "C" of any class, ever. (I had straight A's all the way from elementary school through college.) My dad looked at my report card and said, "What's wrong with you? "C" isn't even "good" -- it's "average".
That kind of stuff affected me for many years. Now, when they creep into my mind I know I've just gotta turn that over to my HP, or to Artemis, or write them off as just a couple more idiots for the planet to feed. Honestly. Sounds harsh, I know, but it's been a lot easier to get rid of any residual effects since getting mad (in therapy) and writing them off as a couple of stupid, ignorant, self-centered drunks who didn't know the first thing about a young girl's self-esteem and who don't deserve the attention my mind is giving them. The self-protective anger flashes up and burns up any remnants of their cruelty, says, "your loss, jerk" and then the ashes blow away and I'm calm, centered, and happy again.
By the way, I make great pizza. And Ginger, congrats on your 23-credit grind. I don't think I could even come close to that
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Mine was at my wedding, my mother proceeded to tell everyone about a ballet recital I was at age 8 and what a klutz I looked like on stage. Can you imagine. People at the table just looked at her. There were no laughs, I think people where thinking "why would a mother talk like that" No praise ever came out of her mouth just putdowns. I suppose it is to boost there own ego's. I still dont quite get it.
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This is a bit different but when I was a child, my mother used to tell me my hair was lank and limp and looked like 'rat's tails' and so..... by the age of about 10, she was booking me at the hairdresser's for regular highlights and perms!! These looked so bad that at times even the school teachers would laugh at me.
She also used to make me put a full set of heated rollers in my hair every morning before school.
She cannot resist making a negative comment about my hair even now - virtually every time she sees me.
She also used to make me put a full set of heated rollers in my hair every morning before school.
She cannot resist making a negative comment about my hair even now - virtually every time she sees me.
Its_me_jen
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I'm still learning so much. Being about to recognize these things about myself has been helping me figure out who I am and why.
What I do know ...... is that I have unreasonable expectations of myself.
What I do know ...... is that I have unreasonable expectations of myself.
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I have two intertwined events that form my earliest memories of this type of thing. I was probably aroud 6 or 7. My great-aunty (alcoholic) told me that I'd "never be a scholar like my mother". I have no recollection whatsoever what led to this particular exchange, but I don't imagine it was anything of any real foundation, as she wasn't hugely involved in my life - either way, it's not an appropriate thing to say to a young boy who hasn't found his niche yet. Anyway, the next week at school, we were doing maths problems, and the teacher told us to take our time and do the first one. I figure I'd show them all that I wasn't stupid, so I quickly did the first question and read over the next few and figured out how to do them as well, and felt really proud of myself. Unfortunately the teacher didn't agree and all I got was being made to feel even more dumb by "disobeying instructions" and not stopping after the first question.
I have spent a lot of my life wanting to prove that I'm not stupid, and I think these two events may have a lot to do with that (they are only part of a bigger picture, but they're as early as I can remember it). It took an A+ average at university and a drink problem of my own to realise that I'd spent all this time trying to prove something, and none of it had made me happy.
Did anyone ever feel as a child/early adolescent that they were expected to come pre-programmed with all the knowledge required to them, and that they were somehow stupid or "useless" if they didn't automatically know how to do something, whether academically or around the house? I think feeling that has affected me a lot in my life.
I have spent a lot of my life wanting to prove that I'm not stupid, and I think these two events may have a lot to do with that (they are only part of a bigger picture, but they're as early as I can remember it). It took an A+ average at university and a drink problem of my own to realise that I'd spent all this time trying to prove something, and none of it had made me happy.
Did anyone ever feel as a child/early adolescent that they were expected to come pre-programmed with all the knowledge required to them, and that they were somehow stupid or "useless" if they didn't automatically know how to do something, whether academically or around the house? I think feeling that has affected me a lot in my life.
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blue, I also felt like I was expected to know everything already and was stupid if I didn't. This, in my family, including predicting the future. My husband and I now use the phrase "well why didn't you think of that beforehand?!" (said sarcastically) when I'm being too hard on myself and letting those old tapes run my life instead of *me* running my life.
I still occasionally fall into the trap of beating myself up for not "thinking about that" when, in reality, whatever the circumstance that happened, it was something no one could have reasonably expected (for instance, I keep my spare tire inflated and check it when I check the other tires, but if I got TWO flat tires, my parents would have asked me why I didn't carry TWO spare tires and I should have thought of that in the first place then I wouldn't be in that mess....but nobody I know carries two spare tires with them, and it's unreasonable to think that I could have known that on that day I would have not one but two punctured tires).
Yup, still working through that bit of baggage. Some days are better than others.
I still occasionally fall into the trap of beating myself up for not "thinking about that" when, in reality, whatever the circumstance that happened, it was something no one could have reasonably expected (for instance, I keep my spare tire inflated and check it when I check the other tires, but if I got TWO flat tires, my parents would have asked me why I didn't carry TWO spare tires and I should have thought of that in the first place then I wouldn't be in that mess....but nobody I know carries two spare tires with them, and it's unreasonable to think that I could have known that on that day I would have not one but two punctured tires).
Yup, still working through that bit of baggage. Some days are better than others.
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What is it about alcoholics that makes them put everyone else down?!!
The thing I find amazing about all these posts is that I think my alcoholic mom would say everyone was being over-sensitive and making a big deal out of nothing.
Yet I know all the 'small' things she did and said, and didn't say or do, had a profound effect on me. Small things matter.
The thing I find amazing about all these posts is that I think my alcoholic mom would say everyone was being over-sensitive and making a big deal out of nothing.
Yet I know all the 'small' things she did and said, and didn't say or do, had a profound effect on me. Small things matter.
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Sorry for posting twice in a row but I just remembered something else about my mom. I was a straight Grade-A student at school. In fact I was on a scholarship. I was really conscientious and hard-working.
One of my exams was Art and I had some coursework to do at home which would count towards my final score. I chose a fashion theme and was drawing some models in different designs. i was really enjoying it. My mom came in and told me it was too bad too submit, and she'd have to do it for me (which she did). She also did some of my other exam coursework for me because my own efforts were too poor (actually I was okay at art). Anyway I got an A but I always felt uncomfortable about it as of course, it was cheating.
It's weird looking back. I got eleven Grade A's overall. I think I could have got a B or a C quite comfortably without it damaging my further academic career!!! But she couldn't leave me alone to do just do my best and feel it was OK.
One of my exams was Art and I had some coursework to do at home which would count towards my final score. I chose a fashion theme and was drawing some models in different designs. i was really enjoying it. My mom came in and told me it was too bad too submit, and she'd have to do it for me (which she did). She also did some of my other exam coursework for me because my own efforts were too poor (actually I was okay at art). Anyway I got an A but I always felt uncomfortable about it as of course, it was cheating.
It's weird looking back. I got eleven Grade A's overall. I think I could have got a B or a C quite comfortably without it damaging my further academic career!!! But she couldn't leave me alone to do just do my best and feel it was OK.
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So sad,I was very lucky to have parents who were encouraging,my AH was not so lucky.
His mother never had anything nice to say,almost annoyed when something wonderful happened to him.
She then passed this on with my children.
My son and his friends found a lost dog they saw pictures of the dog posted on telephone poles.
He found the dog,saw a phone number on the collar and proceded to call the number with his buddies cell phone.
The family came to pick up the dog and were overjoyed. My son was given a small reward by this grateful family.
Well, I was so proud of my son,smiling from ear to ear as I told my husbands mother.
She looked at my son and sad "well I guess you think you are some kind of hero".
I snapped back "he is a hero."
Some people never should have been allowed to have children.
We wonder why there are so many hurting people in this world.
If you cannot get acceptance from the one person who is supposed to love and protect you,how do you ever go into the world with healthy self esteem.
So glad they are out of our lives............
His mother never had anything nice to say,almost annoyed when something wonderful happened to him.
She then passed this on with my children.
My son and his friends found a lost dog they saw pictures of the dog posted on telephone poles.
He found the dog,saw a phone number on the collar and proceded to call the number with his buddies cell phone.
The family came to pick up the dog and were overjoyed. My son was given a small reward by this grateful family.
Well, I was so proud of my son,smiling from ear to ear as I told my husbands mother.
She looked at my son and sad "well I guess you think you are some kind of hero".
I snapped back "he is a hero."
Some people never should have been allowed to have children.
We wonder why there are so many hurting people in this world.
If you cannot get acceptance from the one person who is supposed to love and protect you,how do you ever go into the world with healthy self esteem.
So glad they are out of our lives............
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GL, the Pizza incedent reminds me of the SPAGHETTI incedent when I was just 10 years old.
We sat down at the table. My cousin sat across from me, and mom and dad sat across from each other. He came to the table without a shirt on. Mom started nagging him. The entire time us kids were stone cold quiet while their bickering went on and on. Dad got quiet. Mom kept nagging.
Quiet
Nagging
Then all of a sudden with no warning my father put his fingers under his plate and flipped it up so that my mother was covered in spaghetti and sause.
Us kids sat quiet as mouses and didnt' say a word.
Looking back on it, my mother deserved it. To this day, when I get irratated with her complaining, I think back to that plate of spaghetti.
We sat down at the table. My cousin sat across from me, and mom and dad sat across from each other. He came to the table without a shirt on. Mom started nagging him. The entire time us kids were stone cold quiet while their bickering went on and on. Dad got quiet. Mom kept nagging.
Quiet
Nagging
Then all of a sudden with no warning my father put his fingers under his plate and flipped it up so that my mother was covered in spaghetti and sause.
Us kids sat quiet as mouses and didnt' say a word.
Looking back on it, my mother deserved it. To this day, when I get irratated with her complaining, I think back to that plate of spaghetti.
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Originally Posted by howatch 
What is it about alcoholics that makes them put everyone else down?!!
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