PLEASE help me - Marriage to an ACOA
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: FL
Posts: 3
PLEASE help me - Marriage to an ACOA
Please help me understand. I'll try and make my story as short as possible.
My husband is an adult child of TWO alcoholic parents. Dad was a career military man - very strict and unloving -- went to his grave 4 years ago without ever telling my husband that he loved him. Mom is still alive, but is also still and alcoholic and we KNOW to not call her after 5:00 p.m. as she will be smashed.
I dated my husband in high school and he was also an alcoholic during his teen years. We were engaged to be married in our early 20's, but because of his emotional abuse toward me when he drank, I broke off the engagement. He continued to be a heavy drinker on through his mid-30's. I never had any contact with him through the years up until our 20th high school reunion.
At our 20th high school reunion we had both been through divorces, and re-connected again. He told me that he hadn't drank for over 5 years --GREAT! I fell for him again almost immediately because I thought the "problems" would be solved now that he was no longer drinking. He seemed to be everything I was looking for in a husband. Liked the same things I did, was a collector of glass (I was an antique dealer), promises of long walks on the beach, etc., etc., etc. I now know years later that this was not HIM, but rather little white lies to once again have me in his life (in his eyes, I was the prize of happiness that got away 20 years ago). He also withheld the fact that he had lost his driver's license for 10 years (I assume there were SEVERAL DUI's). I know these little white lies should have been a red flag, but I LOVED him --- and still DO!
It became very obvious to be very soon into our marriage that he was no longer an active alcoholic, but rather a huge WORKALCOHOLIC. He is NOT a happy person unless he is working. I often tell people that he took two days off from work when I moved to be with him -- one to drive the U-Haul and one to help me unload it -- and I haven't seen him since. He has NO close friends and doesn't like to socialize at all - especially where there is going to be any drinking. His only friends are a couple women involved in his business with which he had constant contact (mostly single, but with boyfriends), although very little socializing with them, only contact by phone.
After the first year of being with him, I begged him to let me come to work part time where he worked as I felt so totally alone and isolated. He rarely talks or shares any of his feeling with me. He DID vocalize that he loved me often, but his actions always said the opposite. He is never personally happy and RARELY smiles. Everyone sees and knows this and has just always said --- "Well that's just HIM". When I worked at his place of business he just ignored me --- would get in his vehicle and leave without never so much as telling me hello or goodbye. I was in a constant struggle with him to make him see how much that hurt my feelings, but he acted as though he really didn't care. There were often employee functions where he wouldn't even mention or ask if I would like to go -- even ones that he planned to attend with his single women friends and never include or stop to think about me. He never seemed to acknowledge I was his WIFE!!! He treated me like I was the enemy!
If I was at home, he would never call me from work, as he said he was too busy. If I called him, he was too busy to talk. If I would stop by work either alone or with my children, he acted like we were intruding on his "world" and pretty much ignored us. I tried and tried and tried to make him see how his actions HURT me and that the way he treated me was totally uncaring -- even though he always said how much he loved me. IT JUST DIDN'T MAKE SENSE. He seems to have to have some type of friendship with only women who are single, but in a relationship, and unavailable so there is no fear of any long term commitment. As for me, he couldn't communicate with me in any way as he has a "problem with commitment". He says I intimidate him. It's soooooooo weird, as I am his wife and I love him, but he continues to push me out of his life in any way he can and has for YEARS!!!! If problems arise between us, he runs to work, as that seems to be the only place he is comfortable.
I do believe that he was attracted to me because I AM a happy person, full of life, a good sense of humor, have close long-term friends, a stable non-drinking family, etc. -- all the things that he is not and did not have as a young child. His isolation and "loner" way or life drove me crazy!!! He was all about WORK, and watching sports, and nothing else. He will not talk ("What do you not get about I'm not a talker?"). He absolutely will NOT deal with any type of conflict or confrontation in his work and especially in our marriage. He simply shuts down and WITHDRAWS each and every time. This left me always upset and frustrated as any problems we encountered (all mostly to do with his workalcoholic personality and lack of emotions) left me feeling hurt to the bone because he shut me out totally and withdrew or would just leave the house.
At the 5 year point of our marriage I insisted that we see a marriage counselor. He went VERY reluctantly and during our second session he said that he wasn't sure he even wanted to be married! WTH? He also admitted at this time that he was not and would never be a "communicator". He wouldn't go back, and I resigned myself that I would have to live a lonely, isolated existence outside of his world if the marriage continued. How can you have a relationship if they refuse to talk???
Our marriage drug on with him totally unable to communicate and me left in a world of hurt constantly because he couldn't see or understand my hurt feelings. I thought if I made us financially secure (which I did by investing in real estate) and that if he had his dream home on the water paid for (which we now have) that he would lose his work-driven ways and turn his attention to our crippled marriage -- after all he did love me. This has not been the case. During these last five years, I was kept busy with the demands of raising two teenagers, and my husband's attention was turned to only work. We merely existed together -- me totally confused and him closed up in his shell where no one could get close to him. Because of the lack of emotions or communication in our marriage, our physical relationship deteriorated to pretty much nothing during the last two years. He refused to address his problems in that area also -- only that he was afraid to keep trying for fear of failing again and again. I finally just shut down in that area too.
I plugged on -- even went to my doctor and had her prescribe ME anti-depressants thinking that if I could numb myself of any feelings just like my husband was, then I could stay in the marriage. It only made me MORE miserable. I openly admit that I tried everything that probably drove him further into his shell by nagging, badgering, and complaining that things weren't right --- something was wrong terribly with him --- he had major issues - and I let him know that probably more times than I should have but I was soooooo frustrated! He KNOWS he has issues, but has never been willing to do anything about it --- I was told to simply "Just get over it." more times than I can remember! I DID threaten divorce many times thinking that since he loved me so much that he would open up and make me a part of his world from fear of losing me. THAT didn't work! When the isolation of dealing with his unhappy, withdrawn, non-communication, unemotional behavior got to be too much I would leave and go to my other home in another state (where my elderly parents reside) just to regain my sanity. NOTHING got through to him. He would simply NOT call when I was away so he wouldn't have to deal with any conflict in our marriage. I just continued to be terribly HURT over him not calling or doing ANYTHING!
Soooooooooo ... that brings us to now. At Christmas, he informs me that he doesn't want to be married anymore. Knows he has issues, but will not address them. He LIKES being alone. Has never had a good relationship with anyone -- doesn't want one. Wants to grow old by himself. He now sees me as his "issue" It's not about me though -- it's about him and his inability to be in a committed relationship - that's what he says. He now thinks he only loves me a "tad" bit.
I've also discovered that he has been having an "emotional affair" (100's of cell phone calls to and from another woman) over the course of the last 5 months. She is in the same business he is in, and also follows his pattern of talking to single women who are already in a relationship as she has a live-in boyfriend. She's easy to talk to because there is no "commitment", no baggage, and he can be anything he wants to be as she doesn't really KNOW him. UGH!!!!!!!!!!
I've also discovered that over the course of the years that my husband was using pot on a several times a week basis to as he says "take the edge off" --- mostly when he was at work --- as he didn't do it around me and always kept that part of him locked away by just not ever letting me know it was going on as much as it did. He now says he has quit doing that about 3 months ago.
What's the matter with my husband??????? He has a good wife that has stood by him and loved him and yet he refuses to make a part of his life. He has this need to keep part of him walled up so that no one can ever get close to him or really know him. He is emotionally constipated (my description that I always told him), and doesn't CARE to even try to work on our marriage. Doesn't want a relationship -- although I know deep down that he doesn't always want to be alone!!! He does have problems from an abusive childhood that need addressing as he very rarely talks about his childhood -- well, he really doesn't talk about anything much. AND ... to add to this problem, he also just turned 50 this past month and I think that a "mid-life crisis" issue is simply adding to the turmoil he feels right now in his life. I don't want to divorce this man, or give up on him and simply walk away from what could be a great marriage if he would only open up to me or SOMEBODY!
I am so hurt and confused. I have been with him 11 years --- and now this. I LOVE this man and want to help him, but I just can't get through to him. PLEASE help me with your opinions and advice.
Thanks so very, very much --- and sorry for such a long post! WHEW!
My husband is an adult child of TWO alcoholic parents. Dad was a career military man - very strict and unloving -- went to his grave 4 years ago without ever telling my husband that he loved him. Mom is still alive, but is also still and alcoholic and we KNOW to not call her after 5:00 p.m. as she will be smashed.
I dated my husband in high school and he was also an alcoholic during his teen years. We were engaged to be married in our early 20's, but because of his emotional abuse toward me when he drank, I broke off the engagement. He continued to be a heavy drinker on through his mid-30's. I never had any contact with him through the years up until our 20th high school reunion.
At our 20th high school reunion we had both been through divorces, and re-connected again. He told me that he hadn't drank for over 5 years --GREAT! I fell for him again almost immediately because I thought the "problems" would be solved now that he was no longer drinking. He seemed to be everything I was looking for in a husband. Liked the same things I did, was a collector of glass (I was an antique dealer), promises of long walks on the beach, etc., etc., etc. I now know years later that this was not HIM, but rather little white lies to once again have me in his life (in his eyes, I was the prize of happiness that got away 20 years ago). He also withheld the fact that he had lost his driver's license for 10 years (I assume there were SEVERAL DUI's). I know these little white lies should have been a red flag, but I LOVED him --- and still DO!
It became very obvious to be very soon into our marriage that he was no longer an active alcoholic, but rather a huge WORKALCOHOLIC. He is NOT a happy person unless he is working. I often tell people that he took two days off from work when I moved to be with him -- one to drive the U-Haul and one to help me unload it -- and I haven't seen him since. He has NO close friends and doesn't like to socialize at all - especially where there is going to be any drinking. His only friends are a couple women involved in his business with which he had constant contact (mostly single, but with boyfriends), although very little socializing with them, only contact by phone.
After the first year of being with him, I begged him to let me come to work part time where he worked as I felt so totally alone and isolated. He rarely talks or shares any of his feeling with me. He DID vocalize that he loved me often, but his actions always said the opposite. He is never personally happy and RARELY smiles. Everyone sees and knows this and has just always said --- "Well that's just HIM". When I worked at his place of business he just ignored me --- would get in his vehicle and leave without never so much as telling me hello or goodbye. I was in a constant struggle with him to make him see how much that hurt my feelings, but he acted as though he really didn't care. There were often employee functions where he wouldn't even mention or ask if I would like to go -- even ones that he planned to attend with his single women friends and never include or stop to think about me. He never seemed to acknowledge I was his WIFE!!! He treated me like I was the enemy!
If I was at home, he would never call me from work, as he said he was too busy. If I called him, he was too busy to talk. If I would stop by work either alone or with my children, he acted like we were intruding on his "world" and pretty much ignored us. I tried and tried and tried to make him see how his actions HURT me and that the way he treated me was totally uncaring -- even though he always said how much he loved me. IT JUST DIDN'T MAKE SENSE. He seems to have to have some type of friendship with only women who are single, but in a relationship, and unavailable so there is no fear of any long term commitment. As for me, he couldn't communicate with me in any way as he has a "problem with commitment". He says I intimidate him. It's soooooooo weird, as I am his wife and I love him, but he continues to push me out of his life in any way he can and has for YEARS!!!! If problems arise between us, he runs to work, as that seems to be the only place he is comfortable.
I do believe that he was attracted to me because I AM a happy person, full of life, a good sense of humor, have close long-term friends, a stable non-drinking family, etc. -- all the things that he is not and did not have as a young child. His isolation and "loner" way or life drove me crazy!!! He was all about WORK, and watching sports, and nothing else. He will not talk ("What do you not get about I'm not a talker?"). He absolutely will NOT deal with any type of conflict or confrontation in his work and especially in our marriage. He simply shuts down and WITHDRAWS each and every time. This left me always upset and frustrated as any problems we encountered (all mostly to do with his workalcoholic personality and lack of emotions) left me feeling hurt to the bone because he shut me out totally and withdrew or would just leave the house.
At the 5 year point of our marriage I insisted that we see a marriage counselor. He went VERY reluctantly and during our second session he said that he wasn't sure he even wanted to be married! WTH? He also admitted at this time that he was not and would never be a "communicator". He wouldn't go back, and I resigned myself that I would have to live a lonely, isolated existence outside of his world if the marriage continued. How can you have a relationship if they refuse to talk???
Our marriage drug on with him totally unable to communicate and me left in a world of hurt constantly because he couldn't see or understand my hurt feelings. I thought if I made us financially secure (which I did by investing in real estate) and that if he had his dream home on the water paid for (which we now have) that he would lose his work-driven ways and turn his attention to our crippled marriage -- after all he did love me. This has not been the case. During these last five years, I was kept busy with the demands of raising two teenagers, and my husband's attention was turned to only work. We merely existed together -- me totally confused and him closed up in his shell where no one could get close to him. Because of the lack of emotions or communication in our marriage, our physical relationship deteriorated to pretty much nothing during the last two years. He refused to address his problems in that area also -- only that he was afraid to keep trying for fear of failing again and again. I finally just shut down in that area too.
I plugged on -- even went to my doctor and had her prescribe ME anti-depressants thinking that if I could numb myself of any feelings just like my husband was, then I could stay in the marriage. It only made me MORE miserable. I openly admit that I tried everything that probably drove him further into his shell by nagging, badgering, and complaining that things weren't right --- something was wrong terribly with him --- he had major issues - and I let him know that probably more times than I should have but I was soooooo frustrated! He KNOWS he has issues, but has never been willing to do anything about it --- I was told to simply "Just get over it." more times than I can remember! I DID threaten divorce many times thinking that since he loved me so much that he would open up and make me a part of his world from fear of losing me. THAT didn't work! When the isolation of dealing with his unhappy, withdrawn, non-communication, unemotional behavior got to be too much I would leave and go to my other home in another state (where my elderly parents reside) just to regain my sanity. NOTHING got through to him. He would simply NOT call when I was away so he wouldn't have to deal with any conflict in our marriage. I just continued to be terribly HURT over him not calling or doing ANYTHING!
Soooooooooo ... that brings us to now. At Christmas, he informs me that he doesn't want to be married anymore. Knows he has issues, but will not address them. He LIKES being alone. Has never had a good relationship with anyone -- doesn't want one. Wants to grow old by himself. He now sees me as his "issue" It's not about me though -- it's about him and his inability to be in a committed relationship - that's what he says. He now thinks he only loves me a "tad" bit.
I've also discovered that he has been having an "emotional affair" (100's of cell phone calls to and from another woman) over the course of the last 5 months. She is in the same business he is in, and also follows his pattern of talking to single women who are already in a relationship as she has a live-in boyfriend. She's easy to talk to because there is no "commitment", no baggage, and he can be anything he wants to be as she doesn't really KNOW him. UGH!!!!!!!!!!
I've also discovered that over the course of the years that my husband was using pot on a several times a week basis to as he says "take the edge off" --- mostly when he was at work --- as he didn't do it around me and always kept that part of him locked away by just not ever letting me know it was going on as much as it did. He now says he has quit doing that about 3 months ago.
What's the matter with my husband??????? He has a good wife that has stood by him and loved him and yet he refuses to make a part of his life. He has this need to keep part of him walled up so that no one can ever get close to him or really know him. He is emotionally constipated (my description that I always told him), and doesn't CARE to even try to work on our marriage. Doesn't want a relationship -- although I know deep down that he doesn't always want to be alone!!! He does have problems from an abusive childhood that need addressing as he very rarely talks about his childhood -- well, he really doesn't talk about anything much. AND ... to add to this problem, he also just turned 50 this past month and I think that a "mid-life crisis" issue is simply adding to the turmoil he feels right now in his life. I don't want to divorce this man, or give up on him and simply walk away from what could be a great marriage if he would only open up to me or SOMEBODY!
I am so hurt and confused. I have been with him 11 years --- and now this. I LOVE this man and want to help him, but I just can't get through to him. PLEASE help me with your opinions and advice.
Thanks so very, very much --- and sorry for such a long post! WHEW!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mountain West
Posts: 96
"I don't want to divorce this man, or give up on him and simply walk away from what could be a great marriage if he would only open up to me or SOMEBODY!"
Wow...I am so sorry you are having to deal with this. Such a hard situation, I am sure. You are 11 years into this marriage, and he is 50...look at what you have done so far??!! You have given yourself beyond all imagination, tried professional counseling, tried putting yourself closer to him at work, etc, etc, etc. I am sure you could list pages and pages of ways you have tried. Why do you feel that by ending the marriage, you would be giving up on him? It sounds like HE has given up on him...and is dragging you down with him. Have you tried counseling for just YOU???? Maybe someone can help you get a handle on your choices and your options, and what will be best for YOU.
Wow...I am so sorry you are having to deal with this. Such a hard situation, I am sure. You are 11 years into this marriage, and he is 50...look at what you have done so far??!! You have given yourself beyond all imagination, tried professional counseling, tried putting yourself closer to him at work, etc, etc, etc. I am sure you could list pages and pages of ways you have tried. Why do you feel that by ending the marriage, you would be giving up on him? It sounds like HE has given up on him...and is dragging you down with him. Have you tried counseling for just YOU???? Maybe someone can help you get a handle on your choices and your options, and what will be best for YOU.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,812
Welcome to SR.... Im glad you found us and it sure sounds like you needed to get that off your chest... Im glad you go that out.
I want to first tell you that my opinions are only that hon, my opinions.... Take what you want and leave the rest. I can only tell you what my experiences are and the similarities that I see.
I use to have a t-shirt that I loved.... of course being a ACoA I had such a hard time saying "NO" ... the T-shirt said "which part of the word "NO" dont you understand."
After reading your post I would have to ask you the same thing.... Which part of "I dont want to change or be fixed" dont you understand? You have tried for 11 years every trick, manuplation, begging, crying, threatening you could think of and none of it has changed one single thing... Why are you killing yourself. How many times did you use the word hurt in your posts hon??
Sweetie, not one place in your post is there anything about what you are going to do for yourself.... nothing on your personal counceling or going to a CoDA meeting ... It is pretty clear you know what and what he is doing.... but tell me, other then you love him, what are you doing for yourself? What is the trade off in this relationship? You sound Co-dependant and probably need just as much help as it sounds he does at this point. He does not want to change and you did not cause it, cant control it and you can not cure it.
Im sorry you are in so much pain, there is healing for this, there is hope and people who totally understand and are willing to help pull you out of this muck, but you have to want it. I look forward to getting to know you and watching your recovery and growth.... hang in there your not alone.
I want to first tell you that my opinions are only that hon, my opinions.... Take what you want and leave the rest. I can only tell you what my experiences are and the similarities that I see.
I use to have a t-shirt that I loved.... of course being a ACoA I had such a hard time saying "NO" ... the T-shirt said "which part of the word "NO" dont you understand."
After reading your post I would have to ask you the same thing.... Which part of "I dont want to change or be fixed" dont you understand? You have tried for 11 years every trick, manuplation, begging, crying, threatening you could think of and none of it has changed one single thing... Why are you killing yourself. How many times did you use the word hurt in your posts hon??
Sweetie, not one place in your post is there anything about what you are going to do for yourself.... nothing on your personal counceling or going to a CoDA meeting ... It is pretty clear you know what and what he is doing.... but tell me, other then you love him, what are you doing for yourself? What is the trade off in this relationship? You sound Co-dependant and probably need just as much help as it sounds he does at this point. He does not want to change and you did not cause it, cant control it and you can not cure it.
Im sorry you are in so much pain, there is healing for this, there is hope and people who totally understand and are willing to help pull you out of this muck, but you have to want it. I look forward to getting to know you and watching your recovery and growth.... hang in there your not alone.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: La Quinta, CA
Posts: 20
My heart and prayers are with you friend. You are suffering and that makes me sad. I know you feel hopeless. Please stop trying anything at all to do with him.....leave him alone. Focus on you, your heartbeat, your life....with or without him. PPPAAALLLEEEEAAASSSSSSSS start a vigerous alanon program...just take 3-4 weeks out of your life and work a serious Alanon program....get an online sponsor at stepchat.com or somewhere else....and go blackbelt for a short time. See if that brings you more peace. Whatever you do...I support and pray for you!
Nat
Nat
Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 12
Hi ACOA wife,
I was married to a man like that. He was an alcoholic and an ACOA. Besides his drinking and non-drinking times all he wanted was to be physically and emotionally alone. We had a perfect home and three beautiful babies and he would come home from work (after working overtime and 2 jobs 6 days a week) and sit (alone) in the garage until bedtime.
Like you, I loved this man and did EVERYTHING I could to get him to talk to me and change his ways. But got nothing back except the hurt feelings you describe. After 12 years I gave up and left him because I did something so out of character for ME that I shocked myself and saw how sick/insane I had become living with him.
Eight years later I married a man I met through Al-anon and had experienced the same kind of marriage with his alcoholic, ACOA ex-wife as I had. My present hubby and I TALK ALL THE TIME about every little thing. Then one day hubby says it's like what was said in a Rambo movie - " what we call HELL, he calls HOME ". So what WE call hell, THEY call home! I finally understood.
I probably haven't explained myself well here - but after thinking about that saying I realized and understood how the way my ex-husband lived his life was his kind of HOME. Even though I thought it was HELL on earth and tried and tried to the point of losing my sanity to change his mind.
Like Cynay said - "He does not want to change and you did not cause it, cant control it, and you can not cure it".
With alcoholism I believe drinking alcohol is only a small part of the problem and that there is a personality type (the 'ISM) that is a much, much bigger problem for them and us.
Concentrate on yourself ACOA wife, do what is BEST for you. Before YOU get sick or do something insane by constantly trying to change your husband's ways.
I wish you well.
I was married to a man like that. He was an alcoholic and an ACOA. Besides his drinking and non-drinking times all he wanted was to be physically and emotionally alone. We had a perfect home and three beautiful babies and he would come home from work (after working overtime and 2 jobs 6 days a week) and sit (alone) in the garage until bedtime.
Like you, I loved this man and did EVERYTHING I could to get him to talk to me and change his ways. But got nothing back except the hurt feelings you describe. After 12 years I gave up and left him because I did something so out of character for ME that I shocked myself and saw how sick/insane I had become living with him.
Eight years later I married a man I met through Al-anon and had experienced the same kind of marriage with his alcoholic, ACOA ex-wife as I had. My present hubby and I TALK ALL THE TIME about every little thing. Then one day hubby says it's like what was said in a Rambo movie - " what we call HELL, he calls HOME ". So what WE call hell, THEY call home! I finally understood.
I probably haven't explained myself well here - but after thinking about that saying I realized and understood how the way my ex-husband lived his life was his kind of HOME. Even though I thought it was HELL on earth and tried and tried to the point of losing my sanity to change his mind.
Like Cynay said - "He does not want to change and you did not cause it, cant control it, and you can not cure it".
With alcoholism I believe drinking alcohol is only a small part of the problem and that there is a personality type (the 'ISM) that is a much, much bigger problem for them and us.
Concentrate on yourself ACOA wife, do what is BEST for you. Before YOU get sick or do something insane by constantly trying to change your husband's ways.
I wish you well.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: FL
Posts: 3
Thanks so much for your responses. I DO realize that I can't fix this situation or cure it for my husband. I have horrible guilt feelings, however, over how I approached the problems during the time we were together. I keep thinking to myself -- if I'd onlly realized that his behavior was for a reason due to his alcoholic parents and the way he was raised, and then his own years of alcoholism. I just assumed that he was being cruel to me for no reason. Now that I have read extensively about the behavior of addicts, I understand better and would have used a different approach in trying to help him overcome his problems and been more understanding and compassionate.
With that being said, we are living apart as he doesn't think he can stay in a marriage where he is unable to talk, trust, or feel. He seems resigned to the fact that he needs to be alone in his little world, and that, of course, is where he feels the most comfortable because that's what he knows. It's so sad and hard to imagine that he will be happier living that kind of existence rather than with someone who has loved him (or tried to) for 11 years. Sadly, I cannot change this. I pray he will someday get help.
Meanwhile, I am trying very hard to detach myself from him emotionally. It IS a struggle for me. I DO need to concentrate on myself and my own personal happiness and I am trying daily to do that.
Once again, I sincerely appreciate the responses to my post. troubles -- I will always remember your comment as it explains it so well. "Their home is our hell." Nobody else but someone that has lived it would understand what a powerful, true statement that is!
((Hugs))
With that being said, we are living apart as he doesn't think he can stay in a marriage where he is unable to talk, trust, or feel. He seems resigned to the fact that he needs to be alone in his little world, and that, of course, is where he feels the most comfortable because that's what he knows. It's so sad and hard to imagine that he will be happier living that kind of existence rather than with someone who has loved him (or tried to) for 11 years. Sadly, I cannot change this. I pray he will someday get help.
Meanwhile, I am trying very hard to detach myself from him emotionally. It IS a struggle for me. I DO need to concentrate on myself and my own personal happiness and I am trying daily to do that.
Once again, I sincerely appreciate the responses to my post. troubles -- I will always remember your comment as it explains it so well. "Their home is our hell." Nobody else but someone that has lived it would understand what a powerful, true statement that is!
((Hugs))
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 1,086
One day at a time, One hour at a time, One minute at a time if you have to.
You sound like you have it all understood at the cognitive level, which means you're already past the hard part of recovery - admitting and believing that there's a problem, and that you can't do anything about it.
Even if you knew what the real cause was behind his behavior, you still couldn't change his behavior unless *he* wanted to change his behavior. None of us are powerful enough to change another person without their consent.
Mourn for the loss of potential you see in him, but please - don't feel guilty. If he is unhappy, he and only he has the power to change that. That's the reason all of us are here - we were unhappy with our lives and decided that the unhappy outweighed the discomfort of learning to be happy.
It is very hard to let go. At some point, for your own sanity and peace, you will do so.
You sound like you have it all understood at the cognitive level, which means you're already past the hard part of recovery - admitting and believing that there's a problem, and that you can't do anything about it.
Even if you knew what the real cause was behind his behavior, you still couldn't change his behavior unless *he* wanted to change his behavior. None of us are powerful enough to change another person without their consent.
Mourn for the loss of potential you see in him, but please - don't feel guilty. If he is unhappy, he and only he has the power to change that. That's the reason all of us are here - we were unhappy with our lives and decided that the unhappy outweighed the discomfort of learning to be happy.
It is very hard to let go. At some point, for your own sanity and peace, you will do so.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 12
Hi ACOA wife, thank-you, you made my day! As I often feel I don't have the skills to explain myself properly. So it was a gift to my heart to be acknowledged by you. (((hugs)))
I know the pain of loving and having to let them go and then the hard road of disentangling yourself emotionally from them.
I found Al-anon and ACOA meetings (plus a sponsor) a great help to me in the beginnning as I felt completely lost and "alone". I read and read and listened to everything I could about the disease of addiction. Till I finally understood (being an ACOA myself) that MY main problem was that I was "addicted" to him. Couldn't live with him, couldn't live without him!
Then I began the work on disentangling myself emotionally from him. Because, I assumed by making the decision and finally physically leaving him that this would automatically make ME feel better. This was NOT the case. I felt like I was 'bouncing around walls' a kind of withdrawal effect from living with him, I think. I couldn't concentrate/focus on anything, I was impatient with my young children because they kept interupting my thinking. My anxiety levels went through the roof !
Then baby-steps, I remember the first goal I set for myself was to do the crossword puzzle in the paper EVERY day. Even this I found difficult to focus on but eventually achieved it, and still do to this day. Then I kept repeating over and over in my head - keep your mind where your hands are, keep your mind where your hands are - like a mantra. Like for instance, if I was washing the dishes I MADE myself ONLY think about the actual dishes I was washing and therefore not him.
ACOA wife, treat yourself like you would a best friend. I remember, after the children were in bed asleep, I MADE myself have long relaxing bubble baths while listening to beautiful music instead of pacing up and down obsessing about him and how I could fix him.
This site (Sober Recovery) is a wealth of information, learning and support, and open 24/7 as well! So I hope you keep coming back and sharing with us.
I send my prayers and best wishes to you.
I know the pain of loving and having to let them go and then the hard road of disentangling yourself emotionally from them.
I found Al-anon and ACOA meetings (plus a sponsor) a great help to me in the beginnning as I felt completely lost and "alone". I read and read and listened to everything I could about the disease of addiction. Till I finally understood (being an ACOA myself) that MY main problem was that I was "addicted" to him. Couldn't live with him, couldn't live without him!
Then I began the work on disentangling myself emotionally from him. Because, I assumed by making the decision and finally physically leaving him that this would automatically make ME feel better. This was NOT the case. I felt like I was 'bouncing around walls' a kind of withdrawal effect from living with him, I think. I couldn't concentrate/focus on anything, I was impatient with my young children because they kept interupting my thinking. My anxiety levels went through the roof !
Then baby-steps, I remember the first goal I set for myself was to do the crossword puzzle in the paper EVERY day. Even this I found difficult to focus on but eventually achieved it, and still do to this day. Then I kept repeating over and over in my head - keep your mind where your hands are, keep your mind where your hands are - like a mantra. Like for instance, if I was washing the dishes I MADE myself ONLY think about the actual dishes I was washing and therefore not him.
ACOA wife, treat yourself like you would a best friend. I remember, after the children were in bed asleep, I MADE myself have long relaxing bubble baths while listening to beautiful music instead of pacing up and down obsessing about him and how I could fix him.
This site (Sober Recovery) is a wealth of information, learning and support, and open 24/7 as well! So I hope you keep coming back and sharing with us.
I send my prayers and best wishes to you.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
Hello ACOA Wife,
I can't improve on what's been said above -- the only thing we can do in these situations, when we've done our best and we've acted with love and honor, is focus on healing ourselves.
I was in a seven-year relationship with such a man, and went through the hell of trying to do, say, feel, try the right things so that he would become the man I NEEDED HIM TO BE, FOR ME. He was, as it turned out, perfectly happy to live in his little world, and was actually relieved when I left him because, as an acquaintance reported, "not having to deal with someone who constantly wanted him to change into something he wasn't."
Private counseling helped me to see this, to come to grips with it, to understand why I stayed, AND to make me healthy so I might some day meet someone who I was actually compatible with.
I am wishing you love, hope, and peace of mind on your journey. Remember: it's YOUR journey. What do you want to do with the precious moments of life you've been given?
GiveLove
I can't improve on what's been said above -- the only thing we can do in these situations, when we've done our best and we've acted with love and honor, is focus on healing ourselves.
I was in a seven-year relationship with such a man, and went through the hell of trying to do, say, feel, try the right things so that he would become the man I NEEDED HIM TO BE, FOR ME. He was, as it turned out, perfectly happy to live in his little world, and was actually relieved when I left him because, as an acquaintance reported, "not having to deal with someone who constantly wanted him to change into something he wasn't."
Private counseling helped me to see this, to come to grips with it, to understand why I stayed, AND to make me healthy so I might some day meet someone who I was actually compatible with.
I am wishing you love, hope, and peace of mind on your journey. Remember: it's YOUR journey. What do you want to do with the precious moments of life you've been given?
GiveLove
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: FL
Posts: 3
Once again, thanks so much for your supportive comments. It really means a lot to me during this time of struggling with my separation from my husband. In my mind, I have come to realize many things over the last 8 weeks.
First of all, I've never heard my husband openly admit that he is indeed an alcoholic. I suppose that I thought like he thinks -- and that is that he used to drink -- a lot. What I know now is that you are always an alcoholic, in recovery perhaps (he hasn't drank that I know of for over 15 years), but nonetheless still an alcoholic. I know now that many of his personality traits of being anti-social and unhappy (rarely smiles), and depressed (he doesn't THINK he's depressed), are those of an alcoholic. When he quit drinking years ago, he quit cold-turkey with absolutely no help or counseling. I never told him how proud I was of him that he had done that, I wish I had. While quitting took care of the drinking problem, he never addressed the underlying problems of WHY he drank -- obviously they still very much exist. He then focused on WORK even more (he's always been a worker) as a substitute for alcohol. AND, workalcoholic's wives suffer the same isolation as an alcoholic's wife -- work is just another drug. Work is where he feels the most comfortable as he can "just work" and not think of anything else. Then there is the occasional pot usage. I don't really know how long it was going on before our marriage, possibly since he gave up drinking. I did know that he occasionally had used, but I never knew to what extent. This was yet another thing that he kept to himself, hidden in his own private world. I think that he felt like if I didn't know it, it wasn't like he was lying to me. He never really understood that "lying by omission" IS still lying. What is bothersome about it is that it was not being used as a recreational, social type thing only, but rather in his time alone as a means to "take the edge off" as he says. Soooooooo ... not using alcohol to self-medicate or take away his unhappiness/depression, numb the pain, but now simply another means of doing it. THE UNDERLYING PROBLEM STILL EXISTS. I believe that he REALLY wants to be a truly happy person, but just doesn't know how to get there and it is his way of dealing with the way he is and the way he believes he will always be. Now, he says he quit smoking 3 months ago --- so again, no help or counseling. I believe in his mind, by getting rid of me and the marriage, he THINKS he is taking care of his "issues", when actually the root of the problems lie within HIM, he just doesn't want to or can't deal with the true problems.
I never gave much thought to it when he would say "What do you expect, I'm the product of two alcoholics." I should have taken the time to read and find out more about adult children of alcoholics WAY before now and really understood that his behavior was indeed like that of others who were raised in an alcoholic home. Then, perhaps, I would not have been so deeply hurt and resentful over the way he treated me -- I just thought he was doing it intentionally and being cruel. I would often tell him that the way he treated me was not the way a husband should treat his wife. When I would tell him how badly I felt over it, he would often say "Well, I don't do it intentionally." I would just be stunned that he couldn't SEE what he was doing. I now realize that this was EXACTLY how he was treated when he was a child --- the only way he knew. In his home, he was to be seen and never HEARD from, no closeness, no genuine love as he was isolated from his parents so that there was never the bond of love formed, no coping or relationship skills were learned. He spent a lot of time in his room while the parents drank and would get into arguments. His Dad was often gone long periods of time due to his years of military service. This of course explains his ability to feel very comfortable all alone without the need of any close friends or relationships. It explains how he doesn't need or want much communication, and why he avoids any conflict or confrontation. It explains the reason why he can't cope with problems, but rather sweep them under the rug and ignore the fact that the problem exists at all. It explains that when he feels love, although I believe he really wants that deep down, he pushes it away, but doesn't really realize he is doing it. It explains that it IS indeed hard for him to FEEL the same emotions that I feel because they were never truly learned within his family unit when he was a child. It explains why he has never developed any really close friends, and is very much a loner. And on and on and on. Now, I know that knowing this may have help, or may not have, but I would have at very least been better equipped to deal with it in a more loving, compassionate way rather than badger him to come forth with what he couldn't. While I thought that taking anti-depressants myself would help me deal with how he was, it not only made me more isolated and lonely, but I got so I didn't care about what was going on. I made the computer my companion because I couldn't have my husband. I would leave and go to my other home for weeks at a time thinking it would make him miss me, and it only lead to reaffirm his belief that he was happier when he was alone. It's really sad.
trouble - your posting here has been very helpful to me, as you sound like you lived what I too have lived and know what I'm trying to convey here. It is very hard for me to communicate how it is --- even though I AM a very big communicator. I would often say to my husband that I felt like I was some prize that he kept in a box on the shelf -- only to be taken down when he had the time to do so --- and then back in the box on the shelf -- ignored until he had the time again. Telling his prize possession that he loved it, but his actions always saying the opposite. I was always on the outside of his circle trying to beat my way in. Our marriage was always last on his list of priorities. Now don't get me wrong, my husband is a good person in a lot of ways which is why I have kept trying to make this marriage work. He is generous, I admire his loyalty to work, he's helpful, he's a talented carpenter, he has a dry sense of humor that I love, he's been good to my children --- but he is just unable to give of himself in a way that ever allows you to feel real love and closeness with him.
Sorry if this seems to be rambling, but this is just what it is -- my rambling to try and make more sense of what is going on. I guess that somehow it just helps to put my thoughts in print.
On to the other woman situation which has been the most painful thing to deal with. I don't really know the extent of their relationship, only that he says they are only friends. But there have been rumors (heard by my children) that he's been seen with her and that he's happy in his new relationship. I only have cell phone records of all the calls to and from her. It was OBSESSIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The calls actually started almost a year ago -- a couple of calls a month. But over the last 5 months were daily --- up to ten and twelve times a day sometimes. So, obviously he CAN communicate, but just not with me. I really don't know whether to believe him when he says that they are only friends, as he has lied by omission on other occasions (what I don't know won't hurt me). I now question my total trust in him, as I DID totally trust his commitment to our marriage, and I allowed him as much alone time as he needed without ever asking questions. I don't know much about this emotional attachment he obviously felt with the other woman -- only what he is willing to admit to which may or may not be the whole truth. Maybe it's the fact that she is in the same type business that he is in so he thinks she is a better match for him. Maybe it's that he can talk to her because she doesn't really know him and there is no commitment (she's safe) -- no fear of her wanting to have what he can't give. He has often said that he can't talk with me because I'm "intimidating", but I really don't know why he feels that way. Anyway, the affair is VERY HURTFUL, as he has given to someone else the one thing that I struggled for years to have, and that's communication and letting her be his friend. I think I would have been able to handle a physical affair better than an emotional affair (IF it hasn't become physical), as it would make more sense knowing how he is. I think it does show that he is still trying to have an emotional connection with someone, although he has admitted that all his relationships have failed because he only allows them to be on his terms -- period. What he doesn't realize, or maybe DOES realize and just doesn't seem to care, is the pain he is causing not only me, but our whole family. It just seems to be all about HIM and his needs. I DO believe, however, that if this other woman situation did not exist, that he would be more willing to see our marriage in a better light and possibly be more willing to seek help in salvaging what we have. Maybe I'm wrong -- maybe I'm right.
Meanwhile, I sit at our beautiful lake front home --- newly remodeled, boat on the lift at the dock which we never even got a chance to go out on --- ALONE! This place was all about finally making him HAPPY. Sadly, even this won't make him happy, as he would rather be alone with his demons. I KNOW I have concentrated on my husband far too long, as I feel like I have lost the "me" that used to be a happy, full of life person. Even my children say that I changed so much since I've been married to him. I KNOW I need to concentrate on my personal healing and happiness while I let go of what I dreamed our marriage could be. I DO still pray that he will see that I truly love him (he still doesn't trust deep down that I do), and he will want to get help for himself, and that possibly we can have a chance to have a happy, fulfilled life together. We have not yet truly been able to accomplish the intimacy needed in a healthy relationship, so I think that's why it is hard to let go of something that never had a chance to really be. It seems so easy to me, but so hard for him to see. Or maybe he does see it, and is just not able to cope with dealing with his "issues". It's just easier for him to be what he knows best. I hope that like some of you here, he will realize his unhappiness and seek help. I know it won't be easy for him, but I would stand by him.
With all that said, I know that I can't go back to the marriage the way it was. I don't want a divorce, but I don't want to live the way we were living. There will have to be changes and I can't make them all myself or for him. I pray daily that God (even though he has no faith really) will reach down and touch him in his darkness and show him the way. Meanwhile, I AM taking all the advice of others, and I am trying to do things for ME while I get on with trying to emotionally detach from him. I KNOW I have to "let go and let God".
Thanks you all so much for listening to my ramblings. It DOES really help!
(((Hugs to all)))
(Good grief -- this was supposed to be a SHORT post! UGH! Sorry guys!)
First of all, I've never heard my husband openly admit that he is indeed an alcoholic. I suppose that I thought like he thinks -- and that is that he used to drink -- a lot. What I know now is that you are always an alcoholic, in recovery perhaps (he hasn't drank that I know of for over 15 years), but nonetheless still an alcoholic. I know now that many of his personality traits of being anti-social and unhappy (rarely smiles), and depressed (he doesn't THINK he's depressed), are those of an alcoholic. When he quit drinking years ago, he quit cold-turkey with absolutely no help or counseling. I never told him how proud I was of him that he had done that, I wish I had. While quitting took care of the drinking problem, he never addressed the underlying problems of WHY he drank -- obviously they still very much exist. He then focused on WORK even more (he's always been a worker) as a substitute for alcohol. AND, workalcoholic's wives suffer the same isolation as an alcoholic's wife -- work is just another drug. Work is where he feels the most comfortable as he can "just work" and not think of anything else. Then there is the occasional pot usage. I don't really know how long it was going on before our marriage, possibly since he gave up drinking. I did know that he occasionally had used, but I never knew to what extent. This was yet another thing that he kept to himself, hidden in his own private world. I think that he felt like if I didn't know it, it wasn't like he was lying to me. He never really understood that "lying by omission" IS still lying. What is bothersome about it is that it was not being used as a recreational, social type thing only, but rather in his time alone as a means to "take the edge off" as he says. Soooooooo ... not using alcohol to self-medicate or take away his unhappiness/depression, numb the pain, but now simply another means of doing it. THE UNDERLYING PROBLEM STILL EXISTS. I believe that he REALLY wants to be a truly happy person, but just doesn't know how to get there and it is his way of dealing with the way he is and the way he believes he will always be. Now, he says he quit smoking 3 months ago --- so again, no help or counseling. I believe in his mind, by getting rid of me and the marriage, he THINKS he is taking care of his "issues", when actually the root of the problems lie within HIM, he just doesn't want to or can't deal with the true problems.
I never gave much thought to it when he would say "What do you expect, I'm the product of two alcoholics." I should have taken the time to read and find out more about adult children of alcoholics WAY before now and really understood that his behavior was indeed like that of others who were raised in an alcoholic home. Then, perhaps, I would not have been so deeply hurt and resentful over the way he treated me -- I just thought he was doing it intentionally and being cruel. I would often tell him that the way he treated me was not the way a husband should treat his wife. When I would tell him how badly I felt over it, he would often say "Well, I don't do it intentionally." I would just be stunned that he couldn't SEE what he was doing. I now realize that this was EXACTLY how he was treated when he was a child --- the only way he knew. In his home, he was to be seen and never HEARD from, no closeness, no genuine love as he was isolated from his parents so that there was never the bond of love formed, no coping or relationship skills were learned. He spent a lot of time in his room while the parents drank and would get into arguments. His Dad was often gone long periods of time due to his years of military service. This of course explains his ability to feel very comfortable all alone without the need of any close friends or relationships. It explains how he doesn't need or want much communication, and why he avoids any conflict or confrontation. It explains the reason why he can't cope with problems, but rather sweep them under the rug and ignore the fact that the problem exists at all. It explains that when he feels love, although I believe he really wants that deep down, he pushes it away, but doesn't really realize he is doing it. It explains that it IS indeed hard for him to FEEL the same emotions that I feel because they were never truly learned within his family unit when he was a child. It explains why he has never developed any really close friends, and is very much a loner. And on and on and on. Now, I know that knowing this may have help, or may not have, but I would have at very least been better equipped to deal with it in a more loving, compassionate way rather than badger him to come forth with what he couldn't. While I thought that taking anti-depressants myself would help me deal with how he was, it not only made me more isolated and lonely, but I got so I didn't care about what was going on. I made the computer my companion because I couldn't have my husband. I would leave and go to my other home for weeks at a time thinking it would make him miss me, and it only lead to reaffirm his belief that he was happier when he was alone. It's really sad.
trouble - your posting here has been very helpful to me, as you sound like you lived what I too have lived and know what I'm trying to convey here. It is very hard for me to communicate how it is --- even though I AM a very big communicator. I would often say to my husband that I felt like I was some prize that he kept in a box on the shelf -- only to be taken down when he had the time to do so --- and then back in the box on the shelf -- ignored until he had the time again. Telling his prize possession that he loved it, but his actions always saying the opposite. I was always on the outside of his circle trying to beat my way in. Our marriage was always last on his list of priorities. Now don't get me wrong, my husband is a good person in a lot of ways which is why I have kept trying to make this marriage work. He is generous, I admire his loyalty to work, he's helpful, he's a talented carpenter, he has a dry sense of humor that I love, he's been good to my children --- but he is just unable to give of himself in a way that ever allows you to feel real love and closeness with him.
Sorry if this seems to be rambling, but this is just what it is -- my rambling to try and make more sense of what is going on. I guess that somehow it just helps to put my thoughts in print.
On to the other woman situation which has been the most painful thing to deal with. I don't really know the extent of their relationship, only that he says they are only friends. But there have been rumors (heard by my children) that he's been seen with her and that he's happy in his new relationship. I only have cell phone records of all the calls to and from her. It was OBSESSIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The calls actually started almost a year ago -- a couple of calls a month. But over the last 5 months were daily --- up to ten and twelve times a day sometimes. So, obviously he CAN communicate, but just not with me. I really don't know whether to believe him when he says that they are only friends, as he has lied by omission on other occasions (what I don't know won't hurt me). I now question my total trust in him, as I DID totally trust his commitment to our marriage, and I allowed him as much alone time as he needed without ever asking questions. I don't know much about this emotional attachment he obviously felt with the other woman -- only what he is willing to admit to which may or may not be the whole truth. Maybe it's the fact that she is in the same type business that he is in so he thinks she is a better match for him. Maybe it's that he can talk to her because she doesn't really know him and there is no commitment (she's safe) -- no fear of her wanting to have what he can't give. He has often said that he can't talk with me because I'm "intimidating", but I really don't know why he feels that way. Anyway, the affair is VERY HURTFUL, as he has given to someone else the one thing that I struggled for years to have, and that's communication and letting her be his friend. I think I would have been able to handle a physical affair better than an emotional affair (IF it hasn't become physical), as it would make more sense knowing how he is. I think it does show that he is still trying to have an emotional connection with someone, although he has admitted that all his relationships have failed because he only allows them to be on his terms -- period. What he doesn't realize, or maybe DOES realize and just doesn't seem to care, is the pain he is causing not only me, but our whole family. It just seems to be all about HIM and his needs. I DO believe, however, that if this other woman situation did not exist, that he would be more willing to see our marriage in a better light and possibly be more willing to seek help in salvaging what we have. Maybe I'm wrong -- maybe I'm right.
Meanwhile, I sit at our beautiful lake front home --- newly remodeled, boat on the lift at the dock which we never even got a chance to go out on --- ALONE! This place was all about finally making him HAPPY. Sadly, even this won't make him happy, as he would rather be alone with his demons. I KNOW I have concentrated on my husband far too long, as I feel like I have lost the "me" that used to be a happy, full of life person. Even my children say that I changed so much since I've been married to him. I KNOW I need to concentrate on my personal healing and happiness while I let go of what I dreamed our marriage could be. I DO still pray that he will see that I truly love him (he still doesn't trust deep down that I do), and he will want to get help for himself, and that possibly we can have a chance to have a happy, fulfilled life together. We have not yet truly been able to accomplish the intimacy needed in a healthy relationship, so I think that's why it is hard to let go of something that never had a chance to really be. It seems so easy to me, but so hard for him to see. Or maybe he does see it, and is just not able to cope with dealing with his "issues". It's just easier for him to be what he knows best. I hope that like some of you here, he will realize his unhappiness and seek help. I know it won't be easy for him, but I would stand by him.
With all that said, I know that I can't go back to the marriage the way it was. I don't want a divorce, but I don't want to live the way we were living. There will have to be changes and I can't make them all myself or for him. I pray daily that God (even though he has no faith really) will reach down and touch him in his darkness and show him the way. Meanwhile, I AM taking all the advice of others, and I am trying to do things for ME while I get on with trying to emotionally detach from him. I KNOW I have to "let go and let God".
Thanks you all so much for listening to my ramblings. It DOES really help!
(((Hugs to all)))
(Good grief -- this was supposed to be a SHORT post! UGH! Sorry guys!)
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