need motivation and inspiration to put these OCs down!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 598
Glad to hear you are still off the opiates rockstar!
As for the taper you are trying - I want to let you know that I get it, I really do. But I wanted to share some experience with you as I see AV chatter all over your posts. I can relate to how you are feeling as I was at the same dosage you were - 300 to 450 mgs a day. Scary, isn't it? Fifteen 30mg pills a day. I was right there with you.
Truth is, there is no comfortable way to do it. You are just prolonging the misery now. At day 7, you would probably be coming off the worst of the physical symptoms now. The anxiety and the emotional stuff is still going to be there when the subs are done. You are still going to have to jump off them, and you are still going to have to deal with the withdrawals. Sometimes it's better to just get it over with.
Just my opinion, I have no issue with the use of subs to help with opiate addiction and I think when used under medical supervision with a doctor and a program they are a wonderful tool that have helped many people come off and stay off. But it sounds like you are using them on your own just to suppress the withdrawals and I'm not sure how successful that will be without a doctor to monitor the dose or having the other support that usually comes along with it. Similar to just tapering using lower dosage opiates....and we all know how that usually goes.
You have my support 100%, but if you feel you really do need the subs I do wish you would see a doctor to help with that - I think you would be so much more successful with it. If it's just to try to make things easier, well - there just is not a way to make it easier. It takes work. Like I said, I really do get it. I had to work too and it was awful, but I made it through - as will you. Heck, in retrospect that was the easy part.
I'm really pulling for you. Hang in there, I know you can do this!
As for the taper you are trying - I want to let you know that I get it, I really do. But I wanted to share some experience with you as I see AV chatter all over your posts. I can relate to how you are feeling as I was at the same dosage you were - 300 to 450 mgs a day. Scary, isn't it? Fifteen 30mg pills a day. I was right there with you.
Truth is, there is no comfortable way to do it. You are just prolonging the misery now. At day 7, you would probably be coming off the worst of the physical symptoms now. The anxiety and the emotional stuff is still going to be there when the subs are done. You are still going to have to jump off them, and you are still going to have to deal with the withdrawals. Sometimes it's better to just get it over with.
Just my opinion, I have no issue with the use of subs to help with opiate addiction and I think when used under medical supervision with a doctor and a program they are a wonderful tool that have helped many people come off and stay off. But it sounds like you are using them on your own just to suppress the withdrawals and I'm not sure how successful that will be without a doctor to monitor the dose or having the other support that usually comes along with it. Similar to just tapering using lower dosage opiates....and we all know how that usually goes.
You have my support 100%, but if you feel you really do need the subs I do wish you would see a doctor to help with that - I think you would be so much more successful with it. If it's just to try to make things easier, well - there just is not a way to make it easier. It takes work. Like I said, I really do get it. I had to work too and it was awful, but I made it through - as will you. Heck, in retrospect that was the easy part.
I'm really pulling for you. Hang in there, I know you can do this!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Huntsville, alabama
Posts: 34
Day 8 no oxy is here! Reduced my sub dose to 1mg today!
STRANGER,
thank you for posting, its nice to know someone is actually reading my rambling haha. I want to let you know that I actually have been to a suboxone doctor in the past and got removed from the program because I wasn't taking as much suboxone as they wanted me to! All the docs around here wanted me to be on 16mg per day for a month and 8mg a day for a year after that before they would even consider lowering my dosage! I went for 3 weeks and they kicked me after testing my blood and not enough suboxone was in my system so they said since I can't follow directions they can't help me! At that high dosage I was literally puking from it and it was intoxicating me way more than oxy. In fact a big part of why my oxy tolerance and use shot up to 300mg a day was because of that period on high dosage suboxone. The point is, these docs really do not want people to come off of suboxone, they are in it to hook people and make lots of money (500 a month for me). Money is not my concern, but being addicted to the much bigger beast of suboxone was not something I wanted and that is what comes from these doctors. Maybe not all of them, but a large majority of them are this way, and if could have found a doc who was truly there to help people come off opiates I would have went. So coming to my taper, I'm actually following a pretty credible site which has helped many people come off opiates heres the link.
How to Quit Heroin with Suboxone
It has other methods besides suboxone like cold turkey and warm turkey. You should check it out it really is a well put together site. The author very highly stresses to taper fast and low dosage so people do not become addicts to suboxone. I'm using the 14 day taper (there are many kinds he lists from 5 days-40days and no more than 40 days). My dosage is actually lower than he mentions to use at day 8. I understand what you mean about getting it over with quickly and I want to. In fact I'm planning on jumping ship on day 10 because I feel I will be OK by then. I'm also working out a lot and building my strength and endorphins up for when I do jump ship. The sub is helping a lot with giving me energy to work, workout, and eat right without stomach problems. But I do understand that I cannot be on sub forever and eventually will have to deal with life completely clean. I just need a few days to get myself together and ease my symptoms. How did you come off opiates? Was it cols turkey? Did u use a taper? Did u use meds? How was life after withdrawals? How is life now? How do you cope with cravings and trigger situations? Are cravings still intense?
STRANGER,
thank you for posting, its nice to know someone is actually reading my rambling haha. I want to let you know that I actually have been to a suboxone doctor in the past and got removed from the program because I wasn't taking as much suboxone as they wanted me to! All the docs around here wanted me to be on 16mg per day for a month and 8mg a day for a year after that before they would even consider lowering my dosage! I went for 3 weeks and they kicked me after testing my blood and not enough suboxone was in my system so they said since I can't follow directions they can't help me! At that high dosage I was literally puking from it and it was intoxicating me way more than oxy. In fact a big part of why my oxy tolerance and use shot up to 300mg a day was because of that period on high dosage suboxone. The point is, these docs really do not want people to come off of suboxone, they are in it to hook people and make lots of money (500 a month for me). Money is not my concern, but being addicted to the much bigger beast of suboxone was not something I wanted and that is what comes from these doctors. Maybe not all of them, but a large majority of them are this way, and if could have found a doc who was truly there to help people come off opiates I would have went. So coming to my taper, I'm actually following a pretty credible site which has helped many people come off opiates heres the link.
How to Quit Heroin with Suboxone
It has other methods besides suboxone like cold turkey and warm turkey. You should check it out it really is a well put together site. The author very highly stresses to taper fast and low dosage so people do not become addicts to suboxone. I'm using the 14 day taper (there are many kinds he lists from 5 days-40days and no more than 40 days). My dosage is actually lower than he mentions to use at day 8. I understand what you mean about getting it over with quickly and I want to. In fact I'm planning on jumping ship on day 10 because I feel I will be OK by then. I'm also working out a lot and building my strength and endorphins up for when I do jump ship. The sub is helping a lot with giving me energy to work, workout, and eat right without stomach problems. But I do understand that I cannot be on sub forever and eventually will have to deal with life completely clean. I just need a few days to get myself together and ease my symptoms. How did you come off opiates? Was it cols turkey? Did u use a taper? Did u use meds? How was life after withdrawals? How is life now? How do you cope with cravings and trigger situations? Are cravings still intense?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Huntsville, alabama
Posts: 34
Stranger, I can't thank you enough for your words and concern. It really helps to know other people are pulling for me to beat this. I really want to and never want to use again. I really am so glad I found this site as support and I vow to continue to be active here and help others with advice and support once I'm through with these withdrawals. I really think that was a big piece that was missing before, I never continued to be active in my sobriety and never developed a support group of former addicts who also are clean.it must be easier to have that reminder everyday by reading other peoples struggles.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 598
Hey Rockstar 
Of course we are following your posts and story - and I guarantee I'm not the only one. You have no idea how helpful it is to others. I lurked around here for almost a year before I finally signed up and posted. And what I was doing was reading others journeys - and seeing the similarities to me. It took me time, but played a huge part in getting up the courage to quit myself. So putting yourself out there, believe me you are helping others
Interesting your experience with the sub doctor (but I am still glad you did see one at one point). Again, not something I know much about, but you are not the first that I have heard from about feeling that they were more about the money than the patient. And pushing higher doses than needed. I am sorry to hear that it was a bad experience
As for me, I tapered a little - used some 5mg percs so I wouldn't be tempted to crush and snort anything. In the past I have tried tapering and as most I failed more than I succeeded. At the amounts I was up to the fives didn't do to much anyway and I didn't want to prolong it any longer. Probably took them for 3 days, then I jumped off cold turkey. No meds other than Imodium which I took quite a bit of. It stunk, but I made it through.....I remember having a delayed withdrawal. Like I actually felt really good at first - it was weird. Then it hit me a few days in. I would say the hardest part was when I felt awful, either mentally or physically, not giving in to the thought that I could stop all that misery with one phone call. It was tough - but I stayed close to this forum and posted like a mad woman. Even if I was talking to myself at times it really helped me. I just poured out everything I was feeling - and once it was out I felt better. I don't really have anyone in my life that could relate to me....don't have family or friends that have faced addiction, so coming here was key for me. To get support and advice from folks that truly understand the crazy things you are feeling and thinking - that's what I did different this time around. And here I am now, almost 6 months I think. July 6th was the date.
How is life now, and are cravings still intense? Well to be honest with you, yeah - I still have the cravings. Thinking back though, they are certainly not as severe as they were in the beginning. But you also must remember, I had been using for almost 20 years. 20 years, damn. Certainly not as much as when I quit. It started recreationally in my 20's, then progressively got worse and worse. It's all I've known for so long, so I have a lot of healing to do and things to work on. The thing for me is, I'm still miserable so I yearn for that temporary relief - the happiness, even though I know it's not real. But reading here, knowing myself I know that it would just lead me back down the path where that happiness is gone. It just doesn't' work.
My life is much different now than it was years ago. I have limitations in mobility now, but I isolated so bad, and that has also become my reality that I have a hard time breaking. So I get up, go to work, come home. On the weekends I just look forward to resting, as I'm usually worn out by then. It's almost robotic and is not helping my recovery. So I finally came to the conclusion that I needed outside help, something more. I knew it a while ago, but just couldn't commit to it. After five months I finally gave in, and plan on seeing a therapist in the new year. I need to....I need help to get my life back to a place where I'm not miserable and can be happy again without the pills.
It's such a strange place these pills take you. They are wonderful...they helped with my pain and made me happy. Made me social and wanting to go out. I was chatty, happy, energized. Then suddenly one day you realize you are no longer happy. They are no longer helping with the pain. I was in this constant cycle of needing them just to feel "normal" but I didn't feel good anymore. I got so tired of the chase. So so tired. So tired of being sick at least once a week. Of spending my entire paycheck. Getting ripped off. Picking them up and worrying will this be the time I get caught? I've never even gotten a traffic ticket, I can't imagine what I would do. But most of all I was sick and tired of having these pills rule my life - because they absolutely did.
So truth for you - yeah, I'm still struggling. Some get better quicker than others and I just kept giving it time. I was so afraid of the thought of "never again" - it consumed me. And then a very wise member here, TiredEnough, told me something that I have carried with me and still do. "Give it 30 days, then reassess". And that's exactly what I have been doing. Just 30 days, and see how I feel about it then. For me that was key....I have read the success stories. And I believe everyone when they tell me "it gets better".
How are you today? I'm so proud that you have kept away from the kratom. I had actually never even heard until I came on here but I understand it's a kind of opiate so it has to be hard when it's that accessible to you. Just keep in mind you don't want to start this over. Once you get through this you don't have to ever again. Please keep writing and keep us posted. I'm so happy you recognized the problem at a young age and are ready to fix it. Like I said before, you don't want to look back and wonder where twenty years of your life went, believe me.
How's things with your family and girlfriend? Are they still supportive? I think that will be such a huge help to you, and remove some of that anxiety you had. You are doing the right thing, and you are doing well. Your actions will speak volumes to them. Keep on keeping on
Of course we are following your posts and story - and I guarantee I'm not the only one. You have no idea how helpful it is to others. I lurked around here for almost a year before I finally signed up and posted. And what I was doing was reading others journeys - and seeing the similarities to me. It took me time, but played a huge part in getting up the courage to quit myself. So putting yourself out there, believe me you are helping others
Interesting your experience with the sub doctor (but I am still glad you did see one at one point). Again, not something I know much about, but you are not the first that I have heard from about feeling that they were more about the money than the patient. And pushing higher doses than needed. I am sorry to hear that it was a bad experience
As for me, I tapered a little - used some 5mg percs so I wouldn't be tempted to crush and snort anything. In the past I have tried tapering and as most I failed more than I succeeded. At the amounts I was up to the fives didn't do to much anyway and I didn't want to prolong it any longer. Probably took them for 3 days, then I jumped off cold turkey. No meds other than Imodium which I took quite a bit of. It stunk, but I made it through.....I remember having a delayed withdrawal. Like I actually felt really good at first - it was weird. Then it hit me a few days in. I would say the hardest part was when I felt awful, either mentally or physically, not giving in to the thought that I could stop all that misery with one phone call. It was tough - but I stayed close to this forum and posted like a mad woman. Even if I was talking to myself at times it really helped me. I just poured out everything I was feeling - and once it was out I felt better. I don't really have anyone in my life that could relate to me....don't have family or friends that have faced addiction, so coming here was key for me. To get support and advice from folks that truly understand the crazy things you are feeling and thinking - that's what I did different this time around. And here I am now, almost 6 months I think. July 6th was the date.
How is life now, and are cravings still intense? Well to be honest with you, yeah - I still have the cravings. Thinking back though, they are certainly not as severe as they were in the beginning. But you also must remember, I had been using for almost 20 years. 20 years, damn. Certainly not as much as when I quit. It started recreationally in my 20's, then progressively got worse and worse. It's all I've known for so long, so I have a lot of healing to do and things to work on. The thing for me is, I'm still miserable so I yearn for that temporary relief - the happiness, even though I know it's not real. But reading here, knowing myself I know that it would just lead me back down the path where that happiness is gone. It just doesn't' work.
My life is much different now than it was years ago. I have limitations in mobility now, but I isolated so bad, and that has also become my reality that I have a hard time breaking. So I get up, go to work, come home. On the weekends I just look forward to resting, as I'm usually worn out by then. It's almost robotic and is not helping my recovery. So I finally came to the conclusion that I needed outside help, something more. I knew it a while ago, but just couldn't commit to it. After five months I finally gave in, and plan on seeing a therapist in the new year. I need to....I need help to get my life back to a place where I'm not miserable and can be happy again without the pills.
It's such a strange place these pills take you. They are wonderful...they helped with my pain and made me happy. Made me social and wanting to go out. I was chatty, happy, energized. Then suddenly one day you realize you are no longer happy. They are no longer helping with the pain. I was in this constant cycle of needing them just to feel "normal" but I didn't feel good anymore. I got so tired of the chase. So so tired. So tired of being sick at least once a week. Of spending my entire paycheck. Getting ripped off. Picking them up and worrying will this be the time I get caught? I've never even gotten a traffic ticket, I can't imagine what I would do. But most of all I was sick and tired of having these pills rule my life - because they absolutely did.
So truth for you - yeah, I'm still struggling. Some get better quicker than others and I just kept giving it time. I was so afraid of the thought of "never again" - it consumed me. And then a very wise member here, TiredEnough, told me something that I have carried with me and still do. "Give it 30 days, then reassess". And that's exactly what I have been doing. Just 30 days, and see how I feel about it then. For me that was key....I have read the success stories. And I believe everyone when they tell me "it gets better".
How are you today? I'm so proud that you have kept away from the kratom. I had actually never even heard until I came on here but I understand it's a kind of opiate so it has to be hard when it's that accessible to you. Just keep in mind you don't want to start this over. Once you get through this you don't have to ever again. Please keep writing and keep us posted. I'm so happy you recognized the problem at a young age and are ready to fix it. Like I said before, you don't want to look back and wonder where twenty years of your life went, believe me.
How's things with your family and girlfriend? Are they still supportive? I think that will be such a huge help to you, and remove some of that anxiety you had. You are doing the right thing, and you are doing well. Your actions will speak volumes to them. Keep on keeping on
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Huntsville, alabama
Posts: 34
Hey everyone I skipped some days of posting due to being very busy at work. But I believe its day 12 now. I'm still experiencing a lot of yawning and sniffling nose symptoms as well as my legs tightening up. Sleep has not been an issue at all I'm getting lots of sleep. Just still low moods I'm the morning which usually get better after a shower. Work still sucks and I get tired quickly. My girlfriend is still very supportive but she has firmly let me know that this will be the last time she can put up with this.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Huntsville, alabama
Posts: 34
Hello everyone. I think today is day 15! I've been off the bupe a few days and I haven't really had too much discomfort. A lot of it is mental I think. Its easy to kind of psyche yourself into thinking you feel withdrawals when u really may not be. I think positive thinking goes very far when one deals with withdrawals, the better you can think of your situation, the better you will feel. I know I have a long road of sobriety ahead of me but I must take this one day at a time. That's the easiest way to deal with myself. It seems scary to think too much of the future and how long life is etc..but I know I'm gonna enjoy life more free from opiates. I hate the viscious cycle of using and sickness and I hate spending all my hard earned money and worst of all I hate the guilt and imprisonment associated with being addicted. I really am ready to turn a new page and never come back to these nightmarish anxieties and fears of having to withdraw. If someone like me using iv pills for years can come off these drugs, so can you! And no matter what they say, tapering with suboxone, if used properly and not to get high truly works to snubb out a lot of the intense withdrawal feelings. As long as you are mentally finished with using and really want to be free, sub is a great tool. If you aren't ready to stop, then my friend you will be introducing yourself to a whole another demon....
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Huntsville, alabama
Posts: 34
Help! Its been two days without sub's and all of a sudden I'm getting pain and restlessness in my legs and all my back muscles just tightening. It sucks to go through this while working 12 hours a day. And honestly even though rehab is way overpriced, its nice to have that few weeks time to detox in a setting without work or anything to worry about and help from doctors. I know I have to tough this out even though there is abundant amounts of kratom within arms reach of me. I just don't want this getting high life anymore. Slavery to opiates or any drug just plain sucks balls. It is no way to live and doesnt bring anything but this misery in the long run. I just am fed up with it. But the withdrawals are the chains that hold me to addiction and now those chains are almost completely broken. Only little shards hold me still. I don't want to strengthen the chains anymore so I must abstain from taking anything to feel better.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Thailand
Posts: 824
Just come off subs myself thankfully I'm on holiday if I was working would be tough. Try and use the work to take your mind of it bro is what I usually do. Will get better day by day stick at it mate.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Huntsville, alabama
Posts: 34
Red man, yeah I mean sub come off especially at low dosages like I was taking isn't anywhere near as bad as a cold turkey jump from real opiates. Its just uncomfortable enough to be noticeable. And yes doing it while working does in fact suck. Just the not getting enough sleep part and long hours. This was the first night where I didn't get full undisturbed sleep. I woke up several times with my legs shaking and joints in pain. Should only be a few more days of this though. I'm in no mind to go back to using but cravings still persistent. I just try to distract myself as much as I can when they come and start talking about random things to myself lol. I probably look crazy.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Huntsville, alabama
Posts: 34
Hello everyone. I think its day 16. I may have lost count. Day 5 no sub's I think. Feeling a lot better physically. I want to say I went to Huntsville today from my family business in culman and I've had a SEVERE craving. Like I knew I could get the Roxy's and syringe and everything and was on my phone about to call my dealer but I didn't. I told myself, look how far you've come. Your almost out of the woods. If u use again you will just waste everything you worked for. Even though using again may not send me back to full withdrawal, its a symboloc thing. If I've come this far and use again it means I'm not finished with these things. But I want to be clean. I want to be done. I don't want to go through this again and I don't want to feel the guilt and self hate I will surely feel if I use again. To anyone reading this I want to say it is NOT WORTH IT to use after withdrawal. It makes no sense to get a few hour high to feel these withdrawals and psychological agony associated with drug use as an addict. On a one on one level, please, if you have wanted to stop using or are going through withdrawal and want to use again please don't. Its a torturous cycle of darkness. Utter hell on earth. Use your life to really love and live. The feelings of clean dopamine far outweigh the normalcy associa d with drug addiction. The natural high of life is so much better. You don't feel guilty or sick or highs and lows or the chains of slavery associated with addiction. Take my word for it I'm a veteran. This is it. I'm done with using. This craving sucked and was scary but I got over it. I beat the demons this time.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Jackson MS
Posts: 54
I understand the cravings and being close to calling your dealer dude. Glad you beat that this time. Keep in mind the things that matter most, the things you'll surely lose or never gain if you keep using. You sound a lot like me man young college students and plenty of life left we got this just keep what's most important in mind. This education won't mean much to either of us if we can't get clean, I'm happy to be on this forum with similar people trying to get clean. Have a nice night and happy New Years brother.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: U.S.
Posts: 43
I've been following this thread. Thank you for your honesty! I am going through the same thoughts. I was not an IV user but was on the opiates. Today is day 17 for me. It's been a rough day! I want to escape but I know it will only be worse tomorrow if I use.
RIP Maria
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: AR
Posts: 7,654
Hi Rockstar!
Good going on staying off the opiates!
Something I wanted to ask you though! You started this Thread with being scared to death of losing your GF and your dad kicking you to the curb because your brother found out you were using again! This is when you started your detox!
If it hadn't been for your brother finding out? Would you have started your detox? You need your clean life to be because YOU want to be clean! If you're doing this for family/GF reasons? The urge to use is going to strike you over and over! I mean it probably would any way, but you know where I'm going with this? If you're not doing it for yourself? There's going to be all sorts of reasons pop up to make you think you can slip one in here and there! Not saying you would use though!
I'm just wondering if you're doing this for yourself and not because you were scared stiff into doing it!
As a Recovering opiate user myself! I have to stand strong in my own shoes to stay clean. I can't let others around me affect my sobriety! This is truly a life and death situation when we use those pills. I've lost ppl in my life because of them and I've read many stories on SR where those have died from the opiates!
I do want to wish you lots of success on staying clean!
TOD
Good going on staying off the opiates!
Something I wanted to ask you though! You started this Thread with being scared to death of losing your GF and your dad kicking you to the curb because your brother found out you were using again! This is when you started your detox!
If it hadn't been for your brother finding out? Would you have started your detox? You need your clean life to be because YOU want to be clean! If you're doing this for family/GF reasons? The urge to use is going to strike you over and over! I mean it probably would any way, but you know where I'm going with this? If you're not doing it for yourself? There's going to be all sorts of reasons pop up to make you think you can slip one in here and there! Not saying you would use though!
I'm just wondering if you're doing this for yourself and not because you were scared stiff into doing it!
As a Recovering opiate user myself! I have to stand strong in my own shoes to stay clean. I can't let others around me affect my sobriety! This is truly a life and death situation when we use those pills. I've lost ppl in my life because of them and I've read many stories on SR where those have died from the opiates!
I do want to wish you lots of success on staying clean!
TOD
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