Jumping from 4mg tomorrow
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: out west
Posts: 63
Jumping from 4mg tomorrow
Hello everyone. I've been a member here for a little while but haven't posted in over a year.
Quick recap of my story: I used oxycodone for 4+ years. Really high doses. Most days I used at least 400mg but definitely topped the 700mg mark some days. During this heavy oxy use I was also using suboxone when I didn't have oxy. I basically always had one or the other, never going without (except the countless times I tried quit).
After using pills for over 4 years I discovered heroin. I spent about a year and a half using H.
Then, last January (1/27/14), I stayed clean for 36 hours and ended up at a clinic. I got on 8mg of suboxone per day and stayed at that amount for about a year. I'm proud to say that I haven't relapsed once in these last 14 months but am at a point where I don't feel truly "clean and sober" being on the subs.
A couple months ago I dropped to 6mg/day and 2 weeks later dropped again to 4mg/day, which is where I am now.
I have a few more 4mg strips but am giving them to a family member to hold because tomorrow I am jumping off the subs. Nothing else to really say at the moment, I just wanted to post this to familiarize myself with the current board members because I forsee myself spending a lot of time here in the near future.
Good luck with your own struggles and thanks for reading.
Quick recap of my story: I used oxycodone for 4+ years. Really high doses. Most days I used at least 400mg but definitely topped the 700mg mark some days. During this heavy oxy use I was also using suboxone when I didn't have oxy. I basically always had one or the other, never going without (except the countless times I tried quit).
After using pills for over 4 years I discovered heroin. I spent about a year and a half using H.
Then, last January (1/27/14), I stayed clean for 36 hours and ended up at a clinic. I got on 8mg of suboxone per day and stayed at that amount for about a year. I'm proud to say that I haven't relapsed once in these last 14 months but am at a point where I don't feel truly "clean and sober" being on the subs.
A couple months ago I dropped to 6mg/day and 2 weeks later dropped again to 4mg/day, which is where I am now.
I have a few more 4mg strips but am giving them to a family member to hold because tomorrow I am jumping off the subs. Nothing else to really say at the moment, I just wanted to post this to familiarize myself with the current board members because I forsee myself spending a lot of time here in the near future.
Good luck with your own struggles and thanks for reading.
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,125
Welcome back Sorb!!!
Good Luck making the jump. It is completely doable, but just be careful. What is the reason you are jumping from 4 and not tapering lower? Did your script run out OR just decided it is time?
I have seen people who have had a decent amount of time off H using Sub or Methadone and then decided to quickly taper or jump for whatever reason and ended up going back. I have also seen people get off successfully. It just seems like if you spent 14 months to get this far why the rush now?
Sorry not trying to be a downer. Just an observation. I am sure you will be fine. Anxiety might be up quite a bit, but keep reaching out for support and you can make a clean break. Take Care!!!
Good Luck making the jump. It is completely doable, but just be careful. What is the reason you are jumping from 4 and not tapering lower? Did your script run out OR just decided it is time?
I have seen people who have had a decent amount of time off H using Sub or Methadone and then decided to quickly taper or jump for whatever reason and ended up going back. I have also seen people get off successfully. It just seems like if you spent 14 months to get this far why the rush now?
Sorry not trying to be a downer. Just an observation. I am sure you will be fine. Anxiety might be up quite a bit, but keep reaching out for support and you can make a clean break. Take Care!!!
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Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Mi
Posts: 1,318
Hi Sorb,
Jumping from 4mgs is a very high dose to jump from. When people taper, they normally taper down to .25mg ( & even .125. )
I jumped from 2mg on Feb.25. It was hard, very hard. It was easier for me to kick H, than it was subs ( not trying to scare you...I just want you to be prepared. ) My husband's still using, but I'm never doing an opiate again ( or any other drug. )
You need to be willing to fight & fight hard. You need to remember the life of hell you had when doing all those pills & H. You need to know you can do this, no matter how long it takes. You need to reach out & ask for support.
Wether you decided to taper or jump, we are here for you. Let us know how you're doing k?
Hugs, Kz
Jumping from 4mgs is a very high dose to jump from. When people taper, they normally taper down to .25mg ( & even .125. )
I jumped from 2mg on Feb.25. It was hard, very hard. It was easier for me to kick H, than it was subs ( not trying to scare you...I just want you to be prepared. ) My husband's still using, but I'm never doing an opiate again ( or any other drug. )
You need to be willing to fight & fight hard. You need to remember the life of hell you had when doing all those pills & H. You need to know you can do this, no matter how long it takes. You need to reach out & ask for support.
Wether you decided to taper or jump, we are here for you. Let us know how you're doing k?
Hugs, Kz
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: Nashville
Posts: 685
Good luck sorb, I jumped at 8 almost a year ago and it sucked really bad. It's as bad as you already know it's going to be. I've read a lot of the stories and symptoms from those that jump at .25 and lower and it seems to suck too. It's not going to be fun or easy but through your tough times coming just know your symptoms are temporary. They'll pass if your patient enough and have enough will power to push through them. I also worked full time throughout my whole ordeal. Get your life back!!! It's possible....
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: out west
Posts: 63
Thank you all for the responses. Man Marcus, you hit the nail on the head. Not sure what day I posted about jumping but I know I didn't make it very long.
Saturday I found myself downtown. Then again Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday.
Wow what a back slide. I swear, I remember thinking while driving downtown to score on Saturday (first time in 14+ months) "man, I hope there's no one selling down there. Please don't let me score." BUT I COULDN'T STOP DRIVING OR TURN AROUND. ****.
Gotta do things the hard way I suppose. So my last H use was Wednesday about 3pm. Then yesterday I took about 4mg of suboxone but after my 5 day run I didn't get any relief from the suboxone. Wishing I didn't even take it now.
I'm finally coming to the realization that there is no easy way out. Not suboxone, not methadone, not tapering, nothing. Gotta pay the toll to cross this bridge.
I feel like absolute crap right now but don't want to take anymore suboxone. Dope neither. Don't know how I'm gonna make it through this. Feels like it'll never end. I called out sick from work today but can't help from thinking I'm still gonna be in the throws of it come Monday.
Not sure what else to do at the moment. Just gonna keep fighting minute by minute. Thanks for listening.
Saturday I found myself downtown. Then again Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday.
Wow what a back slide. I swear, I remember thinking while driving downtown to score on Saturday (first time in 14+ months) "man, I hope there's no one selling down there. Please don't let me score." BUT I COULDN'T STOP DRIVING OR TURN AROUND. ****.
Gotta do things the hard way I suppose. So my last H use was Wednesday about 3pm. Then yesterday I took about 4mg of suboxone but after my 5 day run I didn't get any relief from the suboxone. Wishing I didn't even take it now.
I'm finally coming to the realization that there is no easy way out. Not suboxone, not methadone, not tapering, nothing. Gotta pay the toll to cross this bridge.
I feel like absolute crap right now but don't want to take anymore suboxone. Dope neither. Don't know how I'm gonna make it through this. Feels like it'll never end. I called out sick from work today but can't help from thinking I'm still gonna be in the throws of it come Monday.
Not sure what else to do at the moment. Just gonna keep fighting minute by minute. Thanks for listening.
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,125
Sorry to hear that Sorb. I was kind of wondering where you disappeared to and was hoping maybe you just stuck with sub a bit longer and didn't feel like posting. I said what I said based on some first hand experience as well as seeing quite a few others take that path. Trust me I know the struggle at times so am not going to say I told you so OR see I was right. It doesn't make me feel any better to be right in this case.
Consider yourself a bit lucky that you didn't OD. My tolerance builds up really fast, but the first few rounds back on the H train after a long absence even when I was being cautious are quite dangerous (lets be honest any time using H is quite dangerous). The one time I did OD was after a decent break and even decided to snort it rather than shoot it for that very reason. It didn't matter. Obviously what I was getting was stronger than you would get off the street, but still just so unpredictable (whatever sub was left in your system probably helped).
That being said I don't think I have to tell you that you are in a dangerous place at the moment. Extra support is what you need right now. Even if you are not big on meetings might be worth getting out and talking to some people. Your mind is going to try to convince you that you need a few more bags. If you give in it will be back on the Merry Go Round.
Yes a 5 day run sucks, but could suck a lot worse. You have the weekend to get past the worst of the symptoms and can start anew. I just had 3 years clean and the thought of starting over if I even had the chance to start over again scares the hell out of me. I truly don't want to use today, but every now and again I get a random trigger or thought and think where the heck did that come from?
Keep posting, hang in there, and good luck!!!
Consider yourself a bit lucky that you didn't OD. My tolerance builds up really fast, but the first few rounds back on the H train after a long absence even when I was being cautious are quite dangerous (lets be honest any time using H is quite dangerous). The one time I did OD was after a decent break and even decided to snort it rather than shoot it for that very reason. It didn't matter. Obviously what I was getting was stronger than you would get off the street, but still just so unpredictable (whatever sub was left in your system probably helped).
That being said I don't think I have to tell you that you are in a dangerous place at the moment. Extra support is what you need right now. Even if you are not big on meetings might be worth getting out and talking to some people. Your mind is going to try to convince you that you need a few more bags. If you give in it will be back on the Merry Go Round.
Yes a 5 day run sucks, but could suck a lot worse. You have the weekend to get past the worst of the symptoms and can start anew. I just had 3 years clean and the thought of starting over if I even had the chance to start over again scares the hell out of me. I truly don't want to use today, but every now and again I get a random trigger or thought and think where the heck did that come from?
Keep posting, hang in there, and good luck!!!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: out west
Posts: 63
So right, once again Marcus. That first night using I was very afraid of an OD. Kept trying to keep myself awake all night. Very scary.
Congrats on 3 years man. That's awesome. Seems almost unattainable at the moment.
I know I'm not very far into this but I still don't feel like using anything. I just flushed 16 2mg strips down the toilet (out of the package, obviously). That felt kinda good. Still scared that things are going to get worse before they get better tho.
I'm thinking hard about getting a little weed. I feel like I'm being repeatedly kicked in the stomach and am ready for any kind of appetite. Idk. You have any personal thoughts on bud, Marcus? I haven't used bud since being on suboxone because of the random UAs.
Congrats on 3 years man. That's awesome. Seems almost unattainable at the moment.
I know I'm not very far into this but I still don't feel like using anything. I just flushed 16 2mg strips down the toilet (out of the package, obviously). That felt kinda good. Still scared that things are going to get worse before they get better tho.
I'm thinking hard about getting a little weed. I feel like I'm being repeatedly kicked in the stomach and am ready for any kind of appetite. Idk. You have any personal thoughts on bud, Marcus? I haven't used bud since being on suboxone because of the random UAs.
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,125
I wouldn't recommend the bud (this is a recovery website after all), but I am not going to pretend I never took some sort of comfort medication during and after a kick. It can be dangerous of course getting started again on something else and your appetite will return. Sleep will return. You will return too.
I have had problems with lots of substances over the years, but nothing took me down as hard and as fast as Heroin. I was a pillhead too for several years before that, but graduated from norcos to oxy to dope. I was up there with the oxy too and was already circling the drain, but started with H and was in detox within a few months. 2 grams of raw a day at my worst ($240) and detoxed off those amounts dozens of times over the years (10 years of "attempts" to get to where I am today). Detox while sucking hard just became part of the deal and I got pretty proficient at getting through it. Not that it was a good thing.
Obviously coming off the H is kicking your butt, but hard to say how much of it is also from the suboxone. It is good you are not craving hard because it is going to take a little time to recover, but like I said your body can recover. For me abstinence is the only way. I tried the marijuana maintenance program or just booze no drugs thing for quite a while and crashed and burned in one way or another again and again.
I was so sure I was never going to use Heroin again during those times then one day I found myself driving to the West Side of Chicago to score mad at myself, but wasn't going to turn back like you talked about. A kind of sick anticipation in my gut. Once I gave into the thoughts and the wheels to get high were set in motion there was almost no chance of stopping the train. I was hyper focused on getting high and nothing was going to get in my way.
I love waking up sober and clear headed and not dreading another day of having to shoot up just to get moving in the morning. It took some time to get to that point, but it is so worth it. Take Care and keep posting!!!
I have had problems with lots of substances over the years, but nothing took me down as hard and as fast as Heroin. I was a pillhead too for several years before that, but graduated from norcos to oxy to dope. I was up there with the oxy too and was already circling the drain, but started with H and was in detox within a few months. 2 grams of raw a day at my worst ($240) and detoxed off those amounts dozens of times over the years (10 years of "attempts" to get to where I am today). Detox while sucking hard just became part of the deal and I got pretty proficient at getting through it. Not that it was a good thing.
Obviously coming off the H is kicking your butt, but hard to say how much of it is also from the suboxone. It is good you are not craving hard because it is going to take a little time to recover, but like I said your body can recover. For me abstinence is the only way. I tried the marijuana maintenance program or just booze no drugs thing for quite a while and crashed and burned in one way or another again and again.
I was so sure I was never going to use Heroin again during those times then one day I found myself driving to the West Side of Chicago to score mad at myself, but wasn't going to turn back like you talked about. A kind of sick anticipation in my gut. Once I gave into the thoughts and the wheels to get high were set in motion there was almost no chance of stopping the train. I was hyper focused on getting high and nothing was going to get in my way.
I love waking up sober and clear headed and not dreading another day of having to shoot up just to get moving in the morning. It took some time to get to that point, but it is so worth it. Take Care and keep posting!!!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: out west
Posts: 63
Been reading through a lot of your old threads. It's like a diary of the good things/thoughts from recovery. Much needed.
One thing I think I'm realizing is that I can't remember a time trying to cold turkey. Like actually trying to quit. Not go a few days and line up some subs. Not go a few days and end up back on the street. I think this may be the first time I'm just completely submitting to the pain and wanting to out last it.
It's a good feeling - doesn't outweigh the ton of bad feelings from this w/d but yeah. Coming up on 72 hours since using dope and 48 since that 4mg suboxone that I wish I didn't take. I feel a little stronger today but also 10x worse.
If you don't mind me asking, did you cold turkey or taper off subs/methadone? Anything specific you would say to yourself at 3 days clean?
One thing I think I'm realizing is that I can't remember a time trying to cold turkey. Like actually trying to quit. Not go a few days and line up some subs. Not go a few days and end up back on the street. I think this may be the first time I'm just completely submitting to the pain and wanting to out last it.
It's a good feeling - doesn't outweigh the ton of bad feelings from this w/d but yeah. Coming up on 72 hours since using dope and 48 since that 4mg suboxone that I wish I didn't take. I feel a little stronger today but also 10x worse.
If you don't mind me asking, did you cold turkey or taper off subs/methadone? Anything specific you would say to yourself at 3 days clean?
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,125
How you doing today Sorb? Still hanging in?
When I finally got clean for good I tapered slowly off methadone. Methadone was an absolute last resort for me. I felt like I was out of options, but truth is before that I just wasn't ready. Even with a slow taper off methadone the after effects lasted several months. I had days where I just wanted to give up, but was able to hang on. I just knew how much I was going to regret the decision to use at that point. I never woke up the day after a tough day wishing I would have used. I have however regretted the hell out of my decisions to pick up again and again so just knew I couldn't keep repeating the past.
I had been on and off Suboxone for years. That is not saying Suboxone couldn't have worked, but it was more my mindset during that time. I often abused the sub OR just quit taking it so I could go get high. I guess the structure of having to go in everyday and dose was helpful for me, but trust me for every good story I hear about methadone there are 10 times as many bad stories.
Looking back now of course I wish I didn't have to use any replacement therapy. I had several stints of 2 months, 3 months, and even 6+ months once completely clean during that time (not saying that to scare you). Some days were easy, but I felt like I was trudging uphill much of the time.
Now cold turkey off dope is something I know VERY well. I was in inpatient detox 4 times (I know not quite cold turkey). Detoxed at home several times. Eventually since I have a wife and 3 kids I didn't want them seeing it anymore. Plus I always liked being left alone for the first 3 days at least. I just started getting hotel rooms and detoxing there (I will save you the gory details). It was a sick sick cycle I was in. Towards the end I didn't use for more than 2 weeks before I would detox and take another run at it. Although my tolerance built up so fast using heavy for 2 days meant some withdrawals for sure. Since I was working I would almost always plan it over a weekend (taking either Friday or Monday off) and time it so the sick was starting to come on as I got to the hotel. Going back to work sucked but I pushed through plenty of days like that.
Anyway not sure any of this is helpful. For me it wasn't getting off the dope, but staying off the dope. Not that getting off is any fun. There is no need to travel the road I traveled. I am thankful I made it to where I am today, but regret not getting it sooner. Lots of days I can't get back with my family and loads and loads of cash. Whatever you have to do to convince yourself you just can't use. I went to a lot of AA meetings, but am not saying that is the only way. Hit plenty of NA meetings too, but I just found AA to be more helpful believe it or not.
I needed someone to talk to during that time. Some people who related to the struggle. This site was a great addition, but I needed more. I often wonder if I just made it through a couple of those bad days early on where I eventually went and scored if things would have been different. No reason to dwell on the past now though. Hang in there and Good luck!
When I finally got clean for good I tapered slowly off methadone. Methadone was an absolute last resort for me. I felt like I was out of options, but truth is before that I just wasn't ready. Even with a slow taper off methadone the after effects lasted several months. I had days where I just wanted to give up, but was able to hang on. I just knew how much I was going to regret the decision to use at that point. I never woke up the day after a tough day wishing I would have used. I have however regretted the hell out of my decisions to pick up again and again so just knew I couldn't keep repeating the past.
I had been on and off Suboxone for years. That is not saying Suboxone couldn't have worked, but it was more my mindset during that time. I often abused the sub OR just quit taking it so I could go get high. I guess the structure of having to go in everyday and dose was helpful for me, but trust me for every good story I hear about methadone there are 10 times as many bad stories.
Looking back now of course I wish I didn't have to use any replacement therapy. I had several stints of 2 months, 3 months, and even 6+ months once completely clean during that time (not saying that to scare you). Some days were easy, but I felt like I was trudging uphill much of the time.
Now cold turkey off dope is something I know VERY well. I was in inpatient detox 4 times (I know not quite cold turkey). Detoxed at home several times. Eventually since I have a wife and 3 kids I didn't want them seeing it anymore. Plus I always liked being left alone for the first 3 days at least. I just started getting hotel rooms and detoxing there (I will save you the gory details). It was a sick sick cycle I was in. Towards the end I didn't use for more than 2 weeks before I would detox and take another run at it. Although my tolerance built up so fast using heavy for 2 days meant some withdrawals for sure. Since I was working I would almost always plan it over a weekend (taking either Friday or Monday off) and time it so the sick was starting to come on as I got to the hotel. Going back to work sucked but I pushed through plenty of days like that.
Anyway not sure any of this is helpful. For me it wasn't getting off the dope, but staying off the dope. Not that getting off is any fun. There is no need to travel the road I traveled. I am thankful I made it to where I am today, but regret not getting it sooner. Lots of days I can't get back with my family and loads and loads of cash. Whatever you have to do to convince yourself you just can't use. I went to a lot of AA meetings, but am not saying that is the only way. Hit plenty of NA meetings too, but I just found AA to be more helpful believe it or not.
I needed someone to talk to during that time. Some people who related to the struggle. This site was a great addition, but I needed more. I often wonder if I just made it through a couple of those bad days early on where I eventually went and scored if things would have been different. No reason to dwell on the past now though. Hang in there and Good luck!
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: out west
Posts: 63
Still here, still goin. Trudging uphill perfectly describes how I'm feeling. First day back at work (and thankfully I have a very easy job) but even it feels like too much work.
I feel better physically than the first 3 days but am only getting a couple hours of sleep a night so I'm constantly drained. No energy at all. It's no wonder opiates have such a high relapse rate. This is gonna take some serious determination, hard work, and time to start to feel "good" again.
No thoughts of giving up yet but I'm feeling a little depressed about what lies ahead.
I feel better physically than the first 3 days but am only getting a couple hours of sleep a night so I'm constantly drained. No energy at all. It's no wonder opiates have such a high relapse rate. This is gonna take some serious determination, hard work, and time to start to feel "good" again.
No thoughts of giving up yet but I'm feeling a little depressed about what lies ahead.
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