bugsworth

Animal lover myself...owner of a couple pit bulls...lol...why is that not a surprise?

Katie...I have found that not knowing the answer does not mean the question can't be answered. Everyone has a version of the truth in one way or another...the truth for me lies in the solution..don't drink.

Aysha

This topic is so sensitive and really has such a wide range of perception.

I myself have never and will never say , think or believe that I have a disease.
I know exactly what I was doing when I took that first hit. I knew exactly what I was doing everytime there after. I know that I made the choice to keep getting high and everythign else that came with my addiction.
And as far as just not getting high again being a choice. Well..That was a choice to not ride the urge out and I gave in. Alot to do with I wanted to get high.
It wouldnt have killed me to not go get high with all the urges in the world. I know that. And if I would have just stayed put and not caved. i would have beem fine. But I chose to let it get the best of me.
I wasnt goin to lose my mind or get ill or anything out of my control if I did or didnt go.
So I am not a believer as to my addiction being a disease.
But everyone has their own percpective and beliefs. I dont knock anyone for what they think. But thats just my take on my own situation.

Rob B

Interesting thread, reminds me of the you say potatoe I say potato rhyme. Katie, would defining it concretely as one or the other make any difference for you?

Bugs, I've got a questionn for you. I've recovered from the hell that was active alcoholism. So, am I suffering from a disease or an addiction? I know for certain that I have a reaction to alcohol that makes me crave more once I ingest any.SO I don't drink, I also know that I can't pull this off on my own will power so I am glad I have found a path that works for me.

So, is my alcoholism "dormant" at the moment or is it gone? Semantics maybe, you know my school of thougt, I'm not recovering today, growing and evolving as a human- yes, recovering no. Not cured, but recovered.

I'm Interested in objective feedback here kids, play nice.

OceanBound

I agree with a lot of what Freepath said. However, I feel if you push this thinking to the extreme, we can argue that mental illness is not a disease. And it's dangerous to go there.

For me, it doesn't really matter who calls it what. I don't have a choice over my alcohol cravings but I do have a choice to drink or not. The only problem I have with the disease thinking is that it's easy to justify any bad behavior as "My disease made me do it."

bugsworth

Rob...I have said it before and will repeat myself for clarification I believe alcoholism is an addiction. I too have the same reaction to alcohol as you do...so I don't drink it. I think we under estimate what we have done to our brains during active addiction...I know if I return to drinking I will return to the place I wanted to die to get out of. Dormant? I don't know...I do know that for me my addiction is not plotting and planning my next relapse and that I am now fully in control of my sobriety.

Katie09

Lol. Agreed. As a sidenote, your dogs could sure eat my dogs for a snack!!!

bugsworth

LOL..my pits are gentle....they would probably run away!!

Katie09

Woof! And my furballs would no doubt tear 'em apart. Ok, to inject some levity to this thread.

suki44883

Well, regardless of what anyone calls it...today is my one year sober anniversary and no one is going to rain on my parade!!

bugsworth

Happy anniversary suki!!!

Katie09

Wow, Suki, you go girl/guy! Sorry! Hard to tell from your user ID to me!!!

Gypsy Feet

Happy anniversary!!!!!!!!!! Wow, you go!

suki44883

I'm a girl, but don't tell anyone.

Ananda

well ok ... i'll try not to harp, but i just have to say one more thing here...it really really bothers me that people assume that because I believe in the idea of a disease model or i believe in a version of powerlessness...that it means i don't take responsiblity for what i do....

It just plain pisses me off cause i very very very much take responsibility...weather by choice or for some other reason I take bad action on a regular basis...i think it is part of being human.

I take responsibility for what i do....absolutely....I have a responsiblity to do my best to correct the damage i inflict knowingly or unknowingly and to try and do better in the future.

I guess what i am saying is that a lot of generalizations are getting made about people with different beliefs....

But then again i do that too....

Dee74

Good point Nands

I try not to get involved in semantic discussions anymore LOL - what I believe doesn't have to threaten anyone else, just as what they believe doesn't need to threaten me.

whatever my alcoholism is - and I've changed sides on this several times - I need to deal with it and keep dealing with it to be the person I want to be and live the life I want to live

D

suki44883

Amen to that, Dee!

Zencat

From the AMA
"The American Medical Association has given formal recognition to the disease concept since 1956. Their recognizing alcoholism and other drug addiction as an illness implies several things:

• The illness can be described.
• The course of the illness is predictable and progressive.
• The disease is primary – that is, it is not just a symptom of some other underlying disorder.
• It is permanent.
• It is terminal. If left untreated, it results in insanity or premature death."

I think because of neurobiological mechanisms; gene expression, brain metabolic activity, receptor availability and so on, addiction can be aptly named a brain disease. I don't so much ascribe to the powerlessness aspects as much as I believe one ability to make proper choices can be impaired due to fundamental changes within the brain. With greater lengths of abstinence the brain dose seem to rebound and yet relapse is still possible even though the probability of doing so is likely diminished.

suki44883

Rob B

Fair enough, I believe differently, but I am truly glad you have found something that is working for you. As far as the notion of my addiction plotting and planning, chalk that up to the "my disease is doing pushups in the parking lots" slogan you may have heard. This is utter rubish. Like you I am fully in control of my recovery, the difference with us is I don't keep myself sober I take actions and stay connected to a power that does. I am powerless over alcohol, this does not mean I am like a leaf blowing aimlessly waiting for my next relapse, matter of fact I have never relapsed nor has anyone else I personally know that does what I do. To each their own, I am aware this is the secular forum and try to respect that, I will say my observation is that there are a lot of folks who frequent this forum who are still suffering, my thoughts go out to them. Feel free to PM if I can be of service.

Dee74

Bugs and I were just saying today there seems to be a lot of people suffering from all over SR right now - it's a terrible affliction to have, no matter what you call it.

I'm glad some of us who've found something that works for us stay here to share it with others Rob

D

Zencat

Every time I see the word 'powerless' on the secular sub-forum I think;

"Powerless
Pow"er*less\, a. Destitute of power, force, or energy; weak; impotent; not able to produce any effect. -- Pow"er*less*ly, adv. -- Pow"er*less*ness, n." (Websters)

I'm with the empowerment camp here. And I can see this as...
...and ultimately my recovery outcome.