Question?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,109
Question?
I have found an agnostic AA meeting in my neighbourhood that I'm thinking of attending. Has anyone been to one? Do they read from the same BB?
I was not originally going to go the AA route but I find myself doing some of the steps regardless. Taking an inventory and wanting to make amends. Also I want to be around other sober people in the flesh.... I'm starting to feel lonely with most of my social circle being drinkers.
I was not originally going to go the AA route but I find myself doing some of the steps regardless. Taking an inventory and wanting to make amends. Also I want to be around other sober people in the flesh.... I'm starting to feel lonely with most of my social circle being drinkers.
Meetings are different from one group to another, so I can't say what the format will be. But Toronto is famous for its agnostic AA meetings--let us know how it goes!
Does religion belong at AA? Fight over 'God' splits Toronto AA groups | Toronto Star
However, I think it's narrow minded for others to believe they can rewrite the steps and expect to still be considered AA.
I suppose Zen it would be like you and I deciding we liked SR in some regards and decided to change it. There are rules of order here, frankly a lot more than in AA! What if we believed AVRT worked for us, but wanted to tweak it stating - I may never drink again. This would be fine for us, but is it still AVRT???
And yes, the only desire for membership is a desire to stop drinking - all are welcome. The rest is only suggested in terms of How We Recovered.
A God of my understanding is pretty broad based. However a principal of AA is getting outside of trying to solve the problem of drinking on our own = self will run riot. Turning our problems over to a God of our understanding is foundation - whatever that God means to you . Many define their higher power as the fellowship/group itself. It's up to you!
Anyone is free to not follow AA suggestions, but don't set up shop as AA and attempt to re write the literature - Seems like narrow thinking to me.......
peace
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,109
Well that answers my original question. The secular groups are forced to keep the literature with all the God references. God curing me of drinking too much is never going to work for me and I do believe in some kind of higher power but I find it more in nature and the mysteries of the universe. I don't think it has a thing to do with my alcoholism. But different strokes for different folks.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,109
Nah. I'm not going to do the meeting thing this time around. I looked up the secular meeting because I was feeling a bit lonely that day. When it came time to go I changed my mind. AVRT and SR has been enough for me so far. If that changes I will reassess. What I need to do is focus on new activities and interests in my sober life. Which I am slowly doing, I've made a bunch of positive changes. But thank you for the suggestions.
I want to be helpful more than I want to be right today (but just barely) so I wont say much. BUT I'll bet you 10 to 1 that if you go to an agnostic meeting that you will like it, AND you will shortly go to another one. If that is incorrect I will mea culpa all over the place and at your specifications X10. Deal?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,126
There are lots of folks in AA with lots of differing opinions, and just because the majority says something is right (or wrong), it could just be that all the fools are on the same side.
(o:
NoelleR
Although there are no 'rules' in AA, there's a LOT of politics. I did some research into Toronto's agnostic meetings, and AAAgnostica in particular, and I found that even though their meetings may not be listed with the local AA Intergroup, and they may not be considered 'AA' by the local AA Intergroup, they are considered 'AA' by AA (New York).........go figure, showstagoya.
There are lots of folks in AA with lots of differing opinions, and just because the majority says something is right (or wrong), it could just be that all the fools are on the same side.
(o:
NoelleR
There are lots of folks in AA with lots of differing opinions, and just because the majority says something is right (or wrong), it could just be that all the fools are on the same side.
(o:
NoelleR
Disclaimer from their site;
AA World Services and GTA Toronto Intergroup neither endorses nor oppose such an interpretation. To ensure there is no confusion, this interpretation of the Twelve Steps of AA IS NOT A.A. Conference Approved literature. A.A. World Service has neither reviewed nor approved this content and does not necessarily agree with the views expressed herein.
Here's what is interesting to me are really the common thread for all of us who cherish AA regardless of ones view of God. This is step 12 as listed from the above website and their re writing of some steps;
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
For me this is critical and great to read. Agnostic, atheist or belief in a traditional HP - there is agreement about a spiritual awakening.
zenchaser,
secular 'guys' aren't kicked out.
a group or meeting which changes the steps is not considered AA. whether they change th3e steps to a secular, or Wiccan, or Jewish version.
it's not about the people in the meeting or about their beliefs.
i happen to go to a regular AA meeting. no changed steps, no changed literature.
of about 15 regularly-attending members, my best guess is that 14 are agnostic or atheist or anything other than theist.
it is definitely not an agnostic AA meeting.
it is fantastic to hear about how all these people can "do" the program with powers greater than themselves of their own understanding, which some of them have come to call god.
we have "religious" people doing secular "programs" (Lifering is an example) , just as "secular" and non-theist people can work the 12-step program with original steps or altered ones.
that altering the original wording makes a meeting unaccepted as an AA meeting by AA is a separate issue.
secular 'guys' aren't kicked out.
a group or meeting which changes the steps is not considered AA. whether they change th3e steps to a secular, or Wiccan, or Jewish version.
it's not about the people in the meeting or about their beliefs.
i happen to go to a regular AA meeting. no changed steps, no changed literature.
of about 15 regularly-attending members, my best guess is that 14 are agnostic or atheist or anything other than theist.
it is definitely not an agnostic AA meeting.
it is fantastic to hear about how all these people can "do" the program with powers greater than themselves of their own understanding, which some of them have come to call god.
we have "religious" people doing secular "programs" (Lifering is an example) , just as "secular" and non-theist people can work the 12-step program with original steps or altered ones.
that altering the original wording makes a meeting unaccepted as an AA meeting by AA is a separate issue.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,126
Again, AA Conference Approved only means that AAWS printed the literature. There is obviously lots of good literature that AAWS cannot print because the copyright may belong to another publishing company.
(o:
NoelleR
P.S. Here's a link to AA's official website where it discusses 'Conference Approved Literature.......................:
http://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/smf-29_en.pdf
P.P.S. "...a group or meeting which changes the steps is not considered AA..." Actually, I spoke with AA (NY office) and they said that if a group calls itself an AA group, then they are....and they specifically included AAAgnostica in this (they consider all this 'are they AA?'/'are they not AA?' to be an outside issue.
Again, AA Conference Approved only means that AAWS printed the literature. There is obviously lots of good literature that AAWS cannot print because the copyright may belong to another publishing company.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,126
(o:
NoelleR
Well that answers my original question. The secular groups are forced to keep the literature with all the God references. God curing me of drinking too much is never going to work for me and I do believe in some kind of higher power but I find it more in nature and the mysteries of the universe. I don't think it has a thing to do with my alcoholism. But different strokes for different folks.
Huh....? 'Conference Approved Literature' does NOT mean AAWS is still printing said literature, only that it did print it. They're no longer printing the 3rd edition of the BB; does that men that it's no longer 'Conference Approved'......................? So, I own a 3rd edition that WAS 'Conference Approved' BUT is no longer 'Conference Approved'................? C'mon........
Third edition is conference approved because AAWS still holds the patent on it.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,109
Gal220, there are some thing about AA that make sense to me regardless of how I feel about the higher power aspect. I think assessing where the addiction has left me and and taking some thought and action as to how to change going forward is a good thing. I also think doing some damage control and mending relationships would be healing and beneficial. Being of service to others, and yes the camaraderie. I just really think that if I quit drinking it's because I took my power back not a higher power but my own. I may end up at that meeting one night... it is walkable from my house and secular. I will probably know some people there! I did work at the local beer store for years. haha
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)