Authenticity IV
Adventures In SpaceTime
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by Impurrfect 
Robby and Melissa - Keeping you and the cats in my prayers. I'm dealing with a "moderate migraine" for now the 8th day, but when I think of what you are going through, I'm humbled and inspired by what you are dealing with as well as many of us on Team Robby and Melissa.
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
Melissa and I are fortunate to have you in our corner!! And what a corner it is with so many others also helping us out in so many ways!!
Adventures In SpaceTime
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by haennie
Good morning, everyone 
Robby, I want to say special thank you for creating these threads and letting us share across such a wide variety of topics... Don't know how others feel, but for me these contributions and interactions are far more than simply support, it's pretty multidimensional and amazingly therapeutic, some themes more than others, but generally I get a ton of good out of these threads for myself. Thanks so much for being here, everyone. Just remembered to express this because the more recent discussion on the amends has been one of those topics for me that has deep significance, and something I've struggled with... very good to read all the different view points and experiences. And for me in particular, talking about the details of my case and then reading other stories has been very helpful already in a practical way -- I think I've just finally managed to make a series of decisions on how to handle the situations I spoke of yesterday... and I think they will be good ones. I'm always amazed at how fast these personal shares and discussions have an effect on me Thanks for creating it, dear friends.
Courage, I am very sorry that you are having a hard time digging up some old stuff. I agree with your stance and with what Robby said: if you don't feel ready to talk about the subject (here or anywhere), then don't. I'm generally very much into digging in the mind and past-present whatever, but I firmly believe there is right time and context for all that work.
Brynn, I also hear you. I had a few of those losses in my life that I never dealt properly with, or to be more precise, I dealt with them by "moving on" and displacing or suppressing the feelings. I personally don't mind revisiting these things at this stage of my life at all and I think this will be beneficial for me in the long run, but it's not like we have to. What I said above for courage about time and context. And for some past things, there is simply never good time and context, and it's best to leave them alone. Like Robby said, there is good reason behind the fact that we bury some things in our minds.
Another reason why the recent discussion has been so interesting to me is, once again, is to see all the different individual approaches, feelings, the variety. All the personal, authentic reactions and dealings with our lives. I also believe that things like guilt or remorse feel differently for different people from within, and so is hard to come up with one universal definition or process that all of us are "supposed to" experience as a result of past wrongs and making amends also. I believe these are all very individual, intimate processes and so while it can be discussed and some of us may benefit from guidance, there is probably just no one right way of doing and experiencing these.
Okay I don't want to expand the topic further, just wanted to say these few things as a response showing how meaningful these last few pages have been for me.
I'm a bit relieved for the week as I've finished a large chunk of work and just submitted... so will try to relax a bit more. Will go visit my dad in the hospital now. We may have found a reasonable solution for his longer term care but it's still uncertain; I will probably talk about it a bit on my thread next week.
Robby & Melissa, I hope you have a pleasant weekend together, with a little sunshine here and there
Robby, I want to say special thank you for creating these threads and letting us share across such a wide variety of topics... Don't know how others feel, but for me these contributions and interactions are far more than simply support, it's pretty multidimensional and amazingly therapeutic, some themes more than others, but generally I get a ton of good out of these threads for myself. Thanks so much for being here, everyone. Just remembered to express this because the more recent discussion on the amends has been one of those topics for me that has deep significance, and something I've struggled with... very good to read all the different view points and experiences. And for me in particular, talking about the details of my case and then reading other stories has been very helpful already in a practical way -- I think I've just finally managed to make a series of decisions on how to handle the situations I spoke of yesterday... and I think they will be good ones. I'm always amazed at how fast these personal shares and discussions have an effect on me
Thanks for creating it, dear friends.Courage, I am very sorry that you are having a hard time digging up some old stuff. I agree with your stance and with what Robby said: if you don't feel ready to talk about the subject (here or anywhere), then don't. I'm generally very much into digging in the mind and past-present whatever, but I firmly believe there is right time and context for all that work.
Brynn, I also hear you. I had a few of those losses in my life that I never dealt properly with, or to be more precise, I dealt with them by "moving on" and displacing or suppressing the feelings. I personally don't mind revisiting these things at this stage of my life at all and I think this will be beneficial for me in the long run, but it's not like we have to. What I said above for courage about time and context. And for some past things, there is simply never good time and context, and it's best to leave them alone. Like Robby said, there is good reason behind the fact that we bury some things in our minds.
Another reason why the recent discussion has been so interesting to me is, once again, is to see all the different individual approaches, feelings, the variety. All the personal, authentic reactions and dealings with our lives. I also believe that things like guilt or remorse feel differently for different people from within, and so is hard to come up with one universal definition or process that all of us are "supposed to" experience as a result of past wrongs and making amends also. I believe these are all very individual, intimate processes and so while it can be discussed and some of us may benefit from guidance, there is probably just no one right way of doing and experiencing these.
Okay I don't want to expand the topic further, just wanted to say these few things as a response showing how meaningful these last few pages have been for me.
I'm a bit relieved for the week as I've finished a large chunk of work and just submitted... so will try to relax a bit more. Will go visit my dad in the hospital now. We may have found a reasonable solution for his longer term care but it's still uncertain; I will probably talk about it a bit on my thread next week.
Robby & Melissa, I hope you have a pleasant weekend together, with a little sunshine here and there
being so cogent and yet also personally affirming so many commonalities for so many of us who contribute to these threads. Thank you haennie.
...holds the key
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,065
Good morning!
One more thought in response, Robby.
For the record....I subscribe to the idea of letting certain things alone. There's a reason we bury certain things or forget certain things and part of that is so we can get on with the business of living today. Unfortunately, some of those buried things have a habit of surfacing whether we want them to or not. Then we have no choice but to deal with them.
For me, the guilt I have regarding my late husband comes from the fact that he was trying to help me and I ran away...literally. I threw it all back in his face and hurt him. And at the time I didn't care. I saw his trying to help me as controlling.
I loved booze and pills more than I loved him. If I would have been sober and in my right mind I wouldn't have acted the way I did. Of course, then there wouldn't have been a problem in the first place either.
It doesn't rule my thoughts like it once did but there are times it comes out of nowhere and knocks the breath out of me. I don't share a lot of personal stuff usually and I have a hard time pinpointing specific feelings, but this is a biggie for me and has been for a while. It's one reason I want to make the most of my sober life. I find a lot of healing in just doing the right thing (staying sober) instead of heaping on all the regret and remorse of drinking.
((Courage)) my thoughts are with you today.
One more thought in response, Robby.
For the record....I subscribe to the idea of letting certain things alone. There's a reason we bury certain things or forget certain things and part of that is so we can get on with the business of living today. Unfortunately, some of those buried things have a habit of surfacing whether we want them to or not. Then we have no choice but to deal with them.
For me, the guilt I have regarding my late husband comes from the fact that he was trying to help me and I ran away...literally. I threw it all back in his face and hurt him. And at the time I didn't care. I saw his trying to help me as controlling.
I loved booze and pills more than I loved him. If I would have been sober and in my right mind I wouldn't have acted the way I did. Of course, then there wouldn't have been a problem in the first place either.
It doesn't rule my thoughts like it once did but there are times it comes out of nowhere and knocks the breath out of me. I don't share a lot of personal stuff usually and I have a hard time pinpointing specific feelings, but this is a biggie for me and has been for a while. It's one reason I want to make the most of my sober life. I find a lot of healing in just doing the right thing (staying sober) instead of heaping on all the regret and remorse of drinking.
((Courage)) my thoughts are with you today.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Morning bryyn
Good to hear you have a working and already effective process for looking after yourself with respect to yourself. Good to hear your confidence coming through in your shares. Want you to know now that I better understand the circumstances, that I too have confidence in your sobriety being the best journey forward to come to better terms with your past experiences. Thanks for bringing me up to speed.
Good to hear you have a working and already effective process for looking after yourself with respect to yourself. Good to hear your confidence coming through in your shares. Want you to know now that I better understand the circumstances, that I too have confidence in your sobriety being the best journey forward to come to better terms with your past experiences. Thanks for bringing me up to speed.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 2,459
I am one who likes to dig up and analyze what has been buried. For me (not generalizing to anyone else) it provides closure (I know that is an over used term). I think of it like this: we are today the sum total of all of the experiences we have had thus far. Good, bad and ugly. Some things get repressed (Freudian) and live outside of our consciousness. Usually these are painful experiences. Just because they are out of our realm of consciousness doesn't mean they don't effect us. They do. Unresolved issues, repressed issues can be harmful. By bringing them into the light of day, they lose their power to some degree. Once they are conscious, you can attempt to come to terms with context and meaning and process them. It can be painful, but once processed and understood, the uncomfortable feelings dissipate. By keeping them buried, they still manifest, but in unhealthy ways.
That is my psych lesson for today.
That is my psych lesson for today.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South East England
Posts: 8,009
I had this realisation today....I'm back to being 'me!'
It's ok being me you know. I'm a bit shy in social situations, and my heart beats quicker when I'm in company I'm not sure of. I'm quiet, happy being on my own listening to music, or just hanging out with special friends who like the real 'me' too. I like walking and reading. I hate ironing. I'm a loyal friend and devoted to my job. I'm a bit lazy at weekends...hours can pass while I'm lost in a book and oblivious to the messy house around me. I love my kids and would die for them, but the noise of the kids next door makes me bad-tempered. I like driving, but not being driven. I'm a perfectionist except when it comes to housework.
I'm a bit boring, I don't like going out much unless it's somewhere in the open air.
I had forgotten who the hell I was when I was caught up in fear and grief and alcoholic hell. It's been a year since I got lost I think...but now...I think...I hope...it's all over.
I just felt like I wanted to share that because it feels great being authentic again. I didn't know I was lost until I was found.
Love to you all
It's ok being me you know. I'm a bit shy in social situations, and my heart beats quicker when I'm in company I'm not sure of. I'm quiet, happy being on my own listening to music, or just hanging out with special friends who like the real 'me' too. I like walking and reading. I hate ironing. I'm a loyal friend and devoted to my job. I'm a bit lazy at weekends...hours can pass while I'm lost in a book and oblivious to the messy house around me. I love my kids and would die for them, but the noise of the kids next door makes me bad-tempered. I like driving, but not being driven. I'm a perfectionist except when it comes to housework.
I'm a bit boring, I don't like going out much unless it's somewhere in the open air.
I had forgotten who the hell I was when I was caught up in fear and grief and alcoholic hell. It's been a year since I got lost I think...but now...I think...I hope...it's all over.
I just felt like I wanted to share that because it feels great being authentic again. I didn't know I was lost until I was found.
Love to you all
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
Hi Robert and Melissa. I hope this day is a good one for both of you.
Ya know, Robert, the switch to 'Robert', though not "mandatory," seems a bit awkward at first, but I used my own experience as a reference. I was called 'Stephen' by family and other people throughout my childhood. Later on, when people started calling me 'Steve', and though it didn't offend me in any way, it just didn't feel right. I always introduce myself as "Stephen," but many people quickly took and take the shortcut, some asking if it's okay with me to do so. I grew up as 'Stephen'; 'Steve' could be anyone. Okay, I'm done with that.
This thread is extremely helpful, and has become something of group therapy for me. This is, I think, Robert, a measure of your natural ability to inspire others, which was evident long before your current struggles. I think that's also why so many of us love you. So many different revelations and sharing of intimate feelings related to anything from joy to horror. I imagine that, as is true for me, many of these expressions are cleansing, transformational or just eye-opening, though I do loathe attempting to capture such events with a single word.
It's become impossible for me, both in terms of time and emotional availability, to respond to each and every one of them, but I do read them all. I wouldn't miss a single one. (I can see that this is going to be a long post so, as I often do in such circumstances, I'll copy and save along the way, as Dee recently suggested on another thread in response to people reporting that they lost their comments. Just sayin'. I'll also admit that I've "lost" comments in the past and was better off for having done so.)
My recent contribution on amends led to others sharing their own thoughts, feelings and experiences in this area. I didn't intend to provide a template for everyone, but instead wanted to share my very particular experiences. Because I cannot recall with any precision who wrote what, I'll not mention everyone's name who contributed to this sub-thread. I'm also certain that I've misinterpreted what some people have written, and that's fine with me.
Yes, haennie. Guilt can be a powerful motivator, and may be a requirement in the process of making amends. I did not intend to communicate that guilt played a minimal role in the process or no role at all. Ideally, we learn as children that when we hurt someone else, often when we see them cry, we have a bad feeling about doing the hurting and interpret on some level that the bad feeling is a kind of "punishment" for what we've done. We sometimes immediately, but usually over time, attempt to avoid this internal punishment by avoiding the behavior that brought it on in the first place (a la Operant Conditioning). People within certain categories of psychiatric disorders (Narcissistic Personality Disorder, e.g.) never make this connection, or at least not completely, and consequently are more or less indifferent to the harm they bring to others. In extreme cases, such as in Anti-social Personality Disorder -- what we call "psychopaths" or euphemistically refer to as "sociopaths" -- not only is the feeling of guilt completely unavailable, but they experience both arousal and satisfaction in harming others, often in horrifying and grotesque ways, as can be seen with serial killers.
When the process of making amends stops at relieving guilt, we are in the same place as the child who has just learned that guilt is "bad," and is to be avoided. (This is, I think, along the lines of what Robert described as guilt being a step along the way, rather than some moral end point.) A higher-level appreciation of harm is required for what I refer to as "making amends." That guilt is not only a signal that I've harmed someone or have done something "wrong," but that I've crossed into a realm of my own existence that is not at all self-sustaining in terms of authenticity and other personal values. It doesn't at all make me less human, but it does, in my way of being, disrupt the greater Universe and, more importantly, increases suffering in others. It's a reminder that other people are as fragile as I am, and that my willingness to accept taking responsibility for caring for myself, though perhaps enlightening, is not always enough.
Making amends according the prescription in the AA Big Book is a serious matter that involves painstaking self-reflection. It is more about when I am ready to do so rather than my estimation that the person I harmed is ready in any comprehensive way. This is only one reason why the action part of making amends is in Step Nine of Twelve, and why it is recommended to do so under the guidance of a sponsor, spiritual adviser, or someone else who we trust. And the general idea is to do no harm: "Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others." "Others" includes the person making amends. I don't go to the husband of the woman I was screwing around with to apologize for reasons that, I believe, are obvious. And I don't necessarily tell my wife that I was cheating on her. There is no blanket solution for every case. If I've stolen from my boss, but I need to support my family, I can send a monthly payment, anonymously, via money order, e.g., until my debt is paid. The list is endless.
One could also make a good argument for the fact that some harms are not to be forgiven. Suffering continuous and regular abuse at the hands of our parents during childhood and after is an example of such circumstances. It's not up to me to decide who should and should not make amends or forgive in every circumstance. When the goal of making amends is to set things right in my own life, and to repair the ruptures I've created for other people (to the best of my abilities), there are several variables to consider, and easy choices are as rare as they are welcome. When I've made amends, it's never been a simple apology for being a dick. I almost always include positive things about the other person...about their generosity towards me, their acts of love and caring, their capacity for tolerance and patience, their willingness to help me through difficult times, their seemingly endless capacity for good will, and their very desire to include me in their lives. In terms of work, it's about someone having given me an opportunity to work, to expand my knowledge and skills, to find additional purpose in my life, and to allow me to continue working until doing so was no longer possible. Making amends, for me, is nothing without also expressing gratitude for having had a relationship with the person I've harmed. If relieving guilt were my goal, and if that's all that I've achieved, then, in that case, all I've gotten is another thing to be guilty about.
Back to my other point...I need to know, truly know, that I'm ready to make amends. That my intentions are more or less pure. That my motivation isn't grounded in my desire to "feel better." (Wanting to "feel better" is what got me in trouble in the first place.) That I have a clear idea in my mind that my making amends will result in some benefit, though the precise nature of that benefit currently eludes me, and may not be the benefit I desire. And that the possibility exists that I may never know what that benefit is. In the end, making amends is an act of faith.
Virtually all treatments and programs for alcoholism and other addictions offer opportunities to grow as people, to guide me towards being on intimate terms with who I am as a person. Despite my personal and professional bias, I've seen psychotherapy work wonders in this regard. And though what we refer to as "counseling" can help, the dynamics, the goals and the practices of counseling are not geared towards the in-depth work that is the hallmark of many psychotherapies. I practice a type of existential psychotherapy, in which believing that you are capable of making choices about who you want to be is a crucial element in the process. When things go well, people are able to discover, search for or assign meaning and purpose to their lives. Perhaps the greatest obstacle to these achievements is the inability to forgive ourselves, which we all know is a popular topic on SR. For me, making amends has been among the best ways for me to learn to forgive myself, and to move on and grow as a person.
It is both a clichè and a truism that those human activities against which we put up the most relentless resistance (with the exception of acts of bad faith and destruction) are the very things that will grant us redemption, allow us to flourish in our humanity and in our existence, and that will, ultimately, bring us to a much better place.
Ya know, Robert, the switch to 'Robert', though not "mandatory," seems a bit awkward at first, but I used my own experience as a reference. I was called 'Stephen' by family and other people throughout my childhood. Later on, when people started calling me 'Steve', and though it didn't offend me in any way, it just didn't feel right. I always introduce myself as "Stephen," but many people quickly took and take the shortcut, some asking if it's okay with me to do so. I grew up as 'Stephen'; 'Steve' could be anyone. Okay, I'm done with that.
This thread is extremely helpful, and has become something of group therapy for me. This is, I think, Robert, a measure of your natural ability to inspire others, which was evident long before your current struggles. I think that's also why so many of us love you. So many different revelations and sharing of intimate feelings related to anything from joy to horror. I imagine that, as is true for me, many of these expressions are cleansing, transformational or just eye-opening, though I do loathe attempting to capture such events with a single word.
It's become impossible for me, both in terms of time and emotional availability, to respond to each and every one of them, but I do read them all. I wouldn't miss a single one. (I can see that this is going to be a long post so, as I often do in such circumstances, I'll copy and save along the way, as Dee recently suggested on another thread in response to people reporting that they lost their comments. Just sayin'. I'll also admit that I've "lost" comments in the past and was better off for having done so.)
My recent contribution on amends led to others sharing their own thoughts, feelings and experiences in this area. I didn't intend to provide a template for everyone, but instead wanted to share my very particular experiences. Because I cannot recall with any precision who wrote what, I'll not mention everyone's name who contributed to this sub-thread. I'm also certain that I've misinterpreted what some people have written, and that's fine with me.
Yes, haennie. Guilt can be a powerful motivator, and may be a requirement in the process of making amends. I did not intend to communicate that guilt played a minimal role in the process or no role at all. Ideally, we learn as children that when we hurt someone else, often when we see them cry, we have a bad feeling about doing the hurting and interpret on some level that the bad feeling is a kind of "punishment" for what we've done. We sometimes immediately, but usually over time, attempt to avoid this internal punishment by avoiding the behavior that brought it on in the first place (a la Operant Conditioning). People within certain categories of psychiatric disorders (Narcissistic Personality Disorder, e.g.) never make this connection, or at least not completely, and consequently are more or less indifferent to the harm they bring to others. In extreme cases, such as in Anti-social Personality Disorder -- what we call "psychopaths" or euphemistically refer to as "sociopaths" -- not only is the feeling of guilt completely unavailable, but they experience both arousal and satisfaction in harming others, often in horrifying and grotesque ways, as can be seen with serial killers.
When the process of making amends stops at relieving guilt, we are in the same place as the child who has just learned that guilt is "bad," and is to be avoided. (This is, I think, along the lines of what Robert described as guilt being a step along the way, rather than some moral end point.) A higher-level appreciation of harm is required for what I refer to as "making amends." That guilt is not only a signal that I've harmed someone or have done something "wrong," but that I've crossed into a realm of my own existence that is not at all self-sustaining in terms of authenticity and other personal values. It doesn't at all make me less human, but it does, in my way of being, disrupt the greater Universe and, more importantly, increases suffering in others. It's a reminder that other people are as fragile as I am, and that my willingness to accept taking responsibility for caring for myself, though perhaps enlightening, is not always enough.
Making amends according the prescription in the AA Big Book is a serious matter that involves painstaking self-reflection. It is more about when I am ready to do so rather than my estimation that the person I harmed is ready in any comprehensive way. This is only one reason why the action part of making amends is in Step Nine of Twelve, and why it is recommended to do so under the guidance of a sponsor, spiritual adviser, or someone else who we trust. And the general idea is to do no harm: "Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others." "Others" includes the person making amends. I don't go to the husband of the woman I was screwing around with to apologize for reasons that, I believe, are obvious. And I don't necessarily tell my wife that I was cheating on her. There is no blanket solution for every case. If I've stolen from my boss, but I need to support my family, I can send a monthly payment, anonymously, via money order, e.g., until my debt is paid. The list is endless.
One could also make a good argument for the fact that some harms are not to be forgiven. Suffering continuous and regular abuse at the hands of our parents during childhood and after is an example of such circumstances. It's not up to me to decide who should and should not make amends or forgive in every circumstance. When the goal of making amends is to set things right in my own life, and to repair the ruptures I've created for other people (to the best of my abilities), there are several variables to consider, and easy choices are as rare as they are welcome. When I've made amends, it's never been a simple apology for being a dick. I almost always include positive things about the other person...about their generosity towards me, their acts of love and caring, their capacity for tolerance and patience, their willingness to help me through difficult times, their seemingly endless capacity for good will, and their very desire to include me in their lives. In terms of work, it's about someone having given me an opportunity to work, to expand my knowledge and skills, to find additional purpose in my life, and to allow me to continue working until doing so was no longer possible. Making amends, for me, is nothing without also expressing gratitude for having had a relationship with the person I've harmed. If relieving guilt were my goal, and if that's all that I've achieved, then, in that case, all I've gotten is another thing to be guilty about.
Back to my other point...I need to know, truly know, that I'm ready to make amends. That my intentions are more or less pure. That my motivation isn't grounded in my desire to "feel better." (Wanting to "feel better" is what got me in trouble in the first place.) That I have a clear idea in my mind that my making amends will result in some benefit, though the precise nature of that benefit currently eludes me, and may not be the benefit I desire. And that the possibility exists that I may never know what that benefit is. In the end, making amends is an act of faith.
Virtually all treatments and programs for alcoholism and other addictions offer opportunities to grow as people, to guide me towards being on intimate terms with who I am as a person. Despite my personal and professional bias, I've seen psychotherapy work wonders in this regard. And though what we refer to as "counseling" can help, the dynamics, the goals and the practices of counseling are not geared towards the in-depth work that is the hallmark of many psychotherapies. I practice a type of existential psychotherapy, in which believing that you are capable of making choices about who you want to be is a crucial element in the process. When things go well, people are able to discover, search for or assign meaning and purpose to their lives. Perhaps the greatest obstacle to these achievements is the inability to forgive ourselves, which we all know is a popular topic on SR. For me, making amends has been among the best ways for me to learn to forgive myself, and to move on and grow as a person.
It is both a clichè and a truism that those human activities against which we put up the most relentless resistance (with the exception of acts of bad faith and destruction) are the very things that will grant us redemption, allow us to flourish in our humanity and in our existence, and that will, ultimately, bring us to a much better place.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Speaking of Authenticity... mixed with all the purpose of this board.
I will share a very personal thing, even though I know it's far from my only interest here. The share is that my DOC, if I ever had to name or define it, is psychedelics. Addictive or not, it is a fact for me.
What do all of you think?
I will share a very personal thing, even though I know it's far from my only interest here. The share is that my DOC, if I ever had to name or define it, is psychedelics. Addictive or not, it is a fact for me.
What do all of you think?
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,590
It's curious because pot and I seemed made for each other but I didn't have great experiences with psychedelics like LSD shrooms, peyote etc, so my experience is limited.
Like Meth, they were something I tried but never wanted to revisit.
I understand that many other people got hooked tho and I look at those experience with an open mind and no judgement
D
Like Meth, they were something I tried but never wanted to revisit.
I understand that many other people got hooked tho and I look at those experience with an open mind and no judgement
D
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Originally Posted by GroundhogDay
Haennie, I knew people in high school that experimented with those. I understand they can be dangerous and lead to life-long flashbacks. Do you get flashbacks?
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Originally Posted by courage2
Haennie, are you making a distinction between your DOC and the substance you're addicted to? Or is your DOC & your addicted substance the same?
Yes my addictive (f****) is alcohol. I mostly have aversion, almost no love.
quat
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: terra (mostly)firma
Posts: 4,825
I think my DOC was mainly detachment, the bigger or more complete break or blank out on reality the better. Lsd and certain pot highs seemed to give more cerebral things to do, and still provide the escape. Alcohol was the curtain closer , always guaranteed to block all out.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,244
Back to my other point...I need to know, truly know, that I'm ready to make amends. That my intentions are more or less pure. That my motivation isn't grounded in my desire to "feel better." (Wanting to "feel better" is what got me in trouble in the first place.) That I have a clear idea in my mind that my making amends will result in some benefit, though the precise nature of that benefit currently eludes me, and may not be the benefit I desire. And that the possibility exists that I may never know what that benefit is. In the end, making amends is an act of faith.
yes.
and thanks again, Stephen.
hm.
it's why i'm not moving forward much or fast with the "big" amend. doesn't feel pure yet. i know the difference. this one for now still feels...uh....obligatory because "i'm doing the program".
when i sat and wrote the long letter (the one i won't send), i got a better sense of the harm i had done to this real person. the suffering i had caused, whether i heard about it in those terms or not.
and while at times it feels/i feel like i'm procrastinating out of fear or resistance or still-resenting, i am actually clear that at this time i'd do a half-assed "thing", which would be worse than nothing.
one more thought i had while reading some previous posts: when dealing with amends in the AA step, i'm not thinking about whether it will benefit the other person. i do look carefully whether it will cause harm, though. but whether it benefits...am i wrong or not understanding this step? i'm thinking a possible benefit to the other person is not for me to decide on in making an amend? what i mean is: it's not the reason to make an amend....
huh?
wishing everyone moments of appreciation.
i appreciate this entire thread and all contributors. thank you.
yes.
and thanks again, Stephen.
hm.
it's why i'm not moving forward much or fast with the "big" amend. doesn't feel pure yet. i know the difference. this one for now still feels...uh....obligatory because "i'm doing the program".
when i sat and wrote the long letter (the one i won't send), i got a better sense of the harm i had done to this real person. the suffering i had caused, whether i heard about it in those terms or not.
and while at times it feels/i feel like i'm procrastinating out of fear or resistance or still-resenting, i am actually clear that at this time i'd do a half-assed "thing", which would be worse than nothing.
one more thought i had while reading some previous posts: when dealing with amends in the AA step, i'm not thinking about whether it will benefit the other person. i do look carefully whether it will cause harm, though. but whether it benefits...am i wrong or not understanding this step? i'm thinking a possible benefit to the other person is not for me to decide on in making an amend? what i mean is: it's not the reason to make an amend....
huh?
wishing everyone moments of appreciation.
i appreciate this entire thread and all contributors. thank you.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
