dothi

Hi guys, I am currently trying to get set up with some help, but it feels like very few people are familiar with the term "adult children of alcoholics". I called the provincial services and when asked to choose my category, I decided to go with "sexual assault" (alcoholic father + raging, codependent mother = no supervision or interest in children's lives or whereabouts = high accessibility to pedophiles, at least in my family). I figured at least the recognition of past trauma will be more helpful than being treated like I have some kind of addiction problem (all addiction counsellors were for active addicts or spouses of active addicts).

As you might imagine, I am a high-functioning workaholic. I really, really hate trying to talk to people, and hear them tell me that it can't really be *that bad* because obviously I'm doing "so well". I KNOW I am not doing well. I am barely making it through each work day and then crying/sleeping my weekends away. Do you see this side of me day-to-day? No. I grew up hiding, hiding, HIDING my feelings away. It is very hard for me to open up and cry to someone. I spend a lot of time calculating how my vulnerability might be used against me, and how I would protect myself if that were the case. I've worked very hard on being more open with my partner, but lately the result has been frustration. He wants me to let go and start living. I want to let go and start living. But I'm stuck. And I know this from a severe bout of crying episodes this weekend.

Why is emotional pain worth so much less than a black eye or a bottle of pills? I'm doing what I'm supposed to, right? I'm reaching out for help.

Since I moved far away from my family, I've struggled in meeting people and making friends. I left a really, really good network of friends behind, many of whom have moved on with their lives. I believe my inner misery is hindering my ability to meet people. I can function fine at work (a little moodily, and so far I haven't erupted). But in my personal life, I am very unhappy. I don't enjoy old hobbies anymore. I feel I'm just going through the motions. Sometimes days are just about filling in time, and then feeling guilty about not doing more work (both hobbies and professional).

My partner and I have talked about family and kids one day (off in the future). But frankly I can't even think about kids until I can go at least one full year without this stifling depression. I promised my partner this weekend that I would seek counselling again.

I'm just afraid that they're going to look at me and decide that I don't really need help (I've felt this before). WTF should I do then - attempt suicide so that people will pay attention and figure, "geez, maybe she did mean it?" Obviously not, but sometimes it seems no one takes me seriously. Has anyone else felt this way before? I know push come to shove I will push forward and get this first appointment with a counsellor, and I know counselling CAN be really helpful (had a really good experience with the counsellor back when I lived close to my parents). It just feels like no one understands out there.

sailorjohn

Well, did you ever consider Al-Anon?

We're talking about the same thing, just not lumping it into that very specialized category of 'adult children'. I was raised in an alcoholic household-both parents,with a mother that is also bi-polar, probably a good percentage of the folks that attend Alanon were also raised in alcoholic households. I know it sucks that we're not given the attention, but it is what it is. We have to give ourselves the attention, but you can get love and support from those folks at the meetings. Some of the finest people I know sit at those tables, and they know exactly where I'm coming from.

Sorry to hear of your pain, but I urge you to try and reach out on that face-to-face level, it's carried me through some of my darkest days.

GiveLove

Dothi, sorry you're going through this. I can only assume it's part of your healing curve, though that doesn't make it any easier.

I did not go to a counselor for ACOA issues at first. I went for depression. For having exactly the symptoms you are having. I'd urge you to try that. Many times, once you've had a chance to talk with a counselor, he/she will know of others who specialize in the areas where you need the most help.

Maybe start there. And seek further help along the way, branching out once your foot is wedged in the door. Face to face help is essential for us to rebuild our face to face lives.

GL

ElegantlyWasted

There is a lot of overlap among AA, alanon, smart, private group sessions. ACOA has meetings in most major metro areas, as well as specific contacts from their website. Don't remember the url, but google it. Best of luck. There is a lot of great stuff out there for you to choose from.

Iwanttoheal

(((Hugs))) Dothi, hang in there.

I think this depression is so common in children who have grown up in dysfunctional families and it sucks and it is not fair, I know where you are.

I have been depressed since I was a child and have spent many long years battling it ie for me it is chronic depression as a result of growing up in an alcoholic home rather than being reactive to a specific problem (it took a while for that penny to drop).

I too would focus on getting treatment for your depression - don't discount taking medication if you need it. You can work Al-Anon / ACAO alongside this treatment.

Take care IWTHxxx

guiab

Dothi,
I cannot add anything, other than the personal observation that it can take time to find the right counselor.
And a good hug ((((Dothi))))

The two universities I attended had counseling services but I just did not have a good experience until I looked off campus. Other counselors are worth talking to, even if they are focused on addiction, as they might point you in a good direction. I know this REALLY requires patience as appointments can be 2-4 weeks away.

I did find a good counselor (in the Halifax phone book) and did a regimen of anti-depressants for a few years. I know of others who had shorter times on medication. In all cases the best progress occurred by combining therapy with the meds, not meds alone. The meds can allow one to get a better perspective for a while and make better progress than without meds.

It is weird that finding a counselor requires energy and a sense of self-preservation from a self that is short on both after a day of work. But you must, and you can.

Alanon can be helpful, if only because it can be good to take action like going to a meeting. This is a weird suggestion, but if you are put off by the older age of those at alanaon meetings, try a nar-anon meeting - it is usually a younger crowd. And addiction is addiction.
Take care!!

box3

Hi Dothi,

I can relate. I am a high achiever with a sometimes crippling perfectionist streak. I have had problems with therapists in the past ironically because I have a high degree of insight, and appear to be quite together even when I'm severely depressed, anxious or stressed. I've realised that I need to tell my therapists about this to make sure they don't take me at face value.

I'm now dealing with my past trauma for the first time. I've picked a psychologist who deals with addiction and trauma, not just depression and anxiety. I've had one appointment so far. I really hope you can start getting the help you need, too.

One way to get across how awful you feel (as opposed to how well you might seem) is the Depression, Anxiety, Stress Scales (DASS). You could download it, fill it out and take it to your appointment. You know something is wrong and you don't have to feel this way, please don't give up on finding the right help.

tromboneliness

That's how I feel. For most of my childhood, I felt that although I was certainly not going to off myself, it would have been preferable if my parents had decided not to have a second child (I have an older sister). There have been times when certain aspects of life -- achievements, mostly -- have made me happy. But my life, in and of itself, has been an unhappy one for 46 years.

I have to say that the (now-recovering, as of 13 years ago) alkie I got involved with about 16 years ago -- we're still married, as I've told you guys -- has been a help. But it's not her job to make me happy, any more than it's mine to do the same for her. Happiness has to be an inside job -- and I don't have it. For the past 10 years or so, I've had a deepening sense that I hate my life, I can't do anything right, my judgment is terrible, and -- once again -- wouldn't it have been better if my parents had stopped after one kid? I'm still not going to jump off a bridge -- my wife would probably not handle that well at all, and besides, our older cat is so completely imprinted on me that I flatter myself to think he'd be heartbroken if I disappeared. (Not sure if that's true, but it doesn't hurt to think so, at any rate.)

On the outside, I'm sure most people don't pick up on any of this. I'm a tournament bowler -- one of the top few dozen in the northeast, if I do say so myself -- and when I'm kicking the cr*p out of someone in match play, it probably doesn't occur to them that I hate myself... but at the end of the day, when the bowling balls are back in the bag and the shoes are off, I hate myself, still. (Although after a particularly good tournament, sometimes I feel a little self-satisfied -- what a concept!)

Anyhow, don't be afraid to see a counselor -- if they're any good, they will NOT tell you that your situation "isn't that bad" -- that's just what laymen who don't know any better will say. A professional will not say that, at least in my experience....

T

DesertEyes

Hi there Dothi

Yup, that's true over here as well. When I first looked for help 30 some years ago there was _nothing_. I ended up with a marriage counselor who was herself an ACoA and between the two of us we did a _lot_ of learning.

That sounds like a good plan. If that doesn't work out then GL's idea of "depression" is another plan.

I know. Been there, done that. That's why you've got _us_. And why we have _you_. Because the majority of those "earth people" are not trained as counselors, and have not experienced what we have.

I'm with you there. What worked well for me was to _not_ open up and cry to someone. I went and _interviewed_ many, many therapists. It was _them_ who had to prove to me that I could trust them with my "inner child". I had _no_ intention of opening up until _they_ proved themselves trustworthy.

I'm not so sure that you are "stuck". The impression I'm getting from your share is that you are progressing along the same lines most of us ACoA's do. Certainly the way _I_ progressed, and still do. I don't get well quickly. I have some insights, make a good bit of progress quickly, then I pause for awhile and learn how to live with my new awareness.

What I am doing is teaching my "inner child" a new set of skills. That part of me is emotionally at the level of a child, and like a child it has to learn by _doing_. The adult part of me learns by reading and observing, but children don't learn that way. They have to _do_ things, and repeat the actions many times, before the new skills become ingrained.

My emotional healing from the traumas of my childhood works the same way. I have to _practice_ the new skills for awhile before they feel comfortable, and before I can move on to the next one.

That's only the case with people who have very little experience with emotional pain. Those of us who have lived it can understand it better.

Yes. You are. And you are doing it very well indeed. You are just finding the same obstacles that all of us find, and which gave rise to places like this website. That is why SoberRecovery exists, because it's so hard to find good help in the real world.

That is quite common. It's exactly how I feel when I'm processing something deep and painful. Recovery has been like a series of marathons for me. Each new awareness is emotionally exhausting. I have to take some time to emotionally recover before I tackle the next challenge. That period of "emotional recovery" is just like recovering from a long race. I have to pause and _not_ feel for awhile, until I have recovered the strength to start feeling again.

Am I making sense with that? If I muddled it all up let me know and I'll try again.

That is very sensible.

No. That is not _their_ decision. _You_ are hiring _them_. Just like you hire a plumber or a mechanic. _You_ are going to decide if _they_ are qualified and skilled to perform the repairs you want done.

Here's what I do. I imagine I have a 7 year old child with me, whose life has been just like mine. I am taking this child to see a music tutor. It is my responsibility to care for this child, help the child grow into a healthy adult, and overcome all the trauma he has experienced. The music tutor is going to help this child be a little more creative.

This kind of "mental imagery" brings out the "Papa bear" instinct in me. That music tutor had better be a very kind, gentle and caring person, or I am _not_ leaving the child there. In fact, I may just watch thru the keyhole during the whole hour because this child needs a little extra love and oversight.

A therapist is no different than a music tutor. They don't get to have a say in whether my child needs tutoring or not. _I_ decide that. If they are not 100% up to my standards they don't even get to say "hello" to my child. Same goes for a therapist.

Your "inner child" is no longer alone in the world, Dothi. Your inner child now has _you_ to protect her. That includes protecting her from unkind people and therapists who have no business looking after wounded children. If _you_ are not 100% satisfied with a therapist, _you_ just walk right out of there and take your inner child with you.

Those who do not take you seriously, are not worthy of _you_ taking seriously.

We do, Dothi. We do. Just like you understand _us_.

Dothi, you are doing really well. You are progressing in your recovery exactly the way I did. In fact, quite a bit faster than I did. Give yourself permission to move along at your own pace, in your own time. You will reach a place where all this pain will be behind you and find a life that is truly happy, joyous and free. There's millions of us ACoA's who have found that life and so will you. We'll be right here cheering you along just like you have been cheering us along.

Mike (((( hugs ))))

takincareome

I'm just now seeing this. I'm so sorry that you're having such a rough time, Dothi. You are always such a rock for the rest of us, it's easy to forget that this is a journey we're all on together.

I echo what GL says. If you're having trouble finding a counselor for ACOA issues, see one for depression. You know what's causing the depression, so you're one giant step ahead of most.

And of course a very useful post from Mike. I don't feel I can add much that's more useful or better worded, so I'll defer to them for now. However, know that we love you and we are here for you. I'm happy to talk with you at any time. Online, phone, whatever. PM me if you want, and we can talk together.

Hugs. Know you're loved.

dothi

Thank you everyone for your replies. I'm really reassured by the thought that this is probably my "healing curve" and that progress is still happening for me. Maybe this is a few big pauses sort of stacked upon each other until I can figure out how to exist with this new awareness - thanks GiveLove and DesertMike In those low lows I can feel my frustration building at how it feels like nothing is changing - that this emptiness is all there is. It's not. I know damn well that it's not. Even worse, I have been happy and healthy before. Losing touch with that feels like failure.

Maybe this is the place to dump, maybe not, but in what I'm sure this is an understatement to everyone reading here, but my family (extended included) is a mess. Blurred boundaries in all the worst ways. SA (=sexual abuse) of children rampant - lots of substance abusing adults feeling sorry for themselves and figuring that getting what they need from children is justified. It's funny because I was debated going no-contact with my mom (in addition to my AF), and she hasn't called for about a month now. It's for the best. I can't stand to hear of another [preventable in any sane non-substance-abusing home] "tragedy" in my family. I just can't handle hearing any of it anymore - not now that I've let go of denial. I don't feel sorry for these people anymore - just outrage. Last time I was home my mom dumped some *new* info on me, and frankly, I just can't weather trying to make sense of it anymore. I'm tired of understanding because it's not making any difference.

sailorjohn, thank you pointing out al-anon because it does make sense that you guys would be talking about the same stuff. I really wish there was a non-religious alternative (religious talk makes me very, very uncomfortable, which is why I often recommend counselling rather than al-anon to forum newbies). But that may just be something I've got to leave at the door. I've googled and found a couple weekly evening meetings in my town that I will have to try. Who knows - there may be a good fit waiting.

Hey grewupinabarn, you're right about the process requiring patience. The town I'm in right now a little small with only a couple counsellors. I started seeing one in the summer, but it wasn't an effective fit (even he questioned the usefulness of me seeking counselling, which left me rather... well, frustrated). So I'm going to try the government route and that patience-trying 6-week average wait time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by box3

I am a high achiever with a sometimes crippling perfectionist streak. I have had problems with therapists in the past ironically because I have a high degree of insight, and appear to be quite together even when I'm severely depressed, anxious or stressed. I've realised that I need to tell my therapists about this to make sure they don't take me at face value.

Hi box3! Christ, I've had to learn to say to my partner, "I am upset right now. Seriously." Most of the time it seems silly because it rarely ends with me actually expressing that upset. But it's really the only effective way to let him know (and ensure that hugs are appropriately distributed). That form is a really good idea - a good place to start talking.

Hey tromboneliness, I often joke with my partner that he's someone to fill the time until we can afford our own place and accommodate a cat

IWTH, your post the other day about grieving had me thinking about something else that follows the lines of the stages of grief. Creating a new normal. This past year has felt like a massive loss in identity for me. The family I grew up with and relied on heavily in early childhood development (and a certain amount of adult development, some regretable) are now worse than strangers to me. And certain things including certain hobbies I did because at the time I anticipated some payoff (e.g. playing family events coordinator in hopes of recognition or praise). Now I realize there is no payoff since it's part of a deal I made with only my consent. But does that have to mean I can't enjoy those hobbies anymore without that hope of such a particular reward? Am I resenting those hobbies now because they remind me of that codependent past? Will I learn to enjoy them again? When I'm meeting people these days I feel so incomplete, like I once had something to offer but I lost it now.

haha, TCOM, I really love this site - it's the only place where my talent set for managing life's more unmanageable issues can shine (not to mention an incredibly rare place to add to that talent set). It's also crazy-rewarding to follow other people's stories of finding the tools and insight to eventually find their way to emotional freedom. It is freedom. It's finally owning your own feelings, for better and worse. It's also enjoying the trendy sound abbreviating your name makes (T-COM)

Please everyone, understand that I appreciate the feedback very much. This was extremely helpful!

Iwanttoheal

Hey Dothi, lots of (((hugs))) flying across the pond to you. It's a painful journey that we are all on BUT it is a good journey. There will be ups and downs as we move forward. My hope for myself is that I will gradually swing less between the extremes of the dramas and chaos and achieve a calmer, happier middle ground.


This jumped out your post at me big style. I can so relate to these feelings - I can't stand / take / handle anymore. I don't want anymore. I'm tired. I reached my own codependent bottom 4 weeks ago and it brought me here to you guys.

Please look after yourself, IWTHxxx

discontentmiser

hey

first of all, your story seems like my own, everyone saying I'm not that sick and yeah, I seriously considered self harm just to let people know that I really needed help. I do so well, and I'm so used to coping (ha ha, enduring) so, even when I was hospitalized, I acted quite normal and often don't interrupt my schooling when things are rough.

I totally hide that I was miserable all the time and just took days off to cry. I'm a hider.
Then, just to switch things up, I decided to be honest (and by that I mean I don't have a filter on my mouth. Progress not perfection. and sometimes I'm unintentionally funny)

When people asked "how's it going?" , first at alanon, then in the "real world", I ACTUALLY told them how I felt.
usually they were sympathetic and sometimes they'd share some story similar to my own.
Once a girl at school asked "ca va?", usually I'd lie and say "bien" (it's going good) but I said for once "non" (it's not going well) and she was actually really nice to me and us brought us kinda closer together for the rest of the year.

You'll be surprised how much love you get when you come out of hiding.

and alanon is a safe place with people who'll understand you
Also, al-anon is not religious. Yes, it's spiritual, but we don't discuss religion and we leave you to choose your understanding of a higher power. You might say a prayer at the end of the meeting, but usually it's the serenity prayer.

ANYWAYS, I totally relate to the can't-take-it-anymore, and I'm really slipping into the nothing-ever-changers again and all last year I was tired and exhausted; and still am.
(then again, I'm a teen and teens are always tired)


also, someone said you were like a rock to us. I thought you were some old lady with a long life behind you and doing tons of 12th step work (helping newbies), giving advice to to the rest of us, since you have so much to share. I guess you don't have your life under control like the rest of us.

So my train of thought (choo choo) has decided to go green and stop using coal, so I've run outta things to blab about

I'm so happy all you people are out here

DM

takincareome

This jumped out at me too. I'm so right there with you. I was joking with someone the other day that for the first time in my life, I have my parents right where I want them: at very-long-arm's length!

There are so many others here who are wiser and more eloquent than I (and I'm a writer! Go figure) but know that my care for you and for all of us here is very real; I identify so strongly with what so many of you are going through; and I'm here for you no matter what.

Hugs
:ghug3

T-COM. Just cause I kinda like that!

dolce7dolore

Hi Dothi. Every time I read one of your posts I find myself wondering if you're an older version of me

I completely agree with you on the fact that very few people are familiar with ACoAs. Honestly I think that needs to change and the public, especially current children living in those toxic messes called "families," needs to be exposed to more information. When I first went to counseling (only went for 3 months), the therapist informed me that there was nothing that even resembled an ACoA group on campus, but that there were random support groups for emotional issues, and that my town only had Al-Anon meetings. I tried the latter. I felt deeply connected with the one ACoA member who was close to my age, but so disconnected from the rest. How could I, someone who was forced into an alcoholic home by mere birth, connect with a woman who decides to stay with her abusive/alcoholic husband? Anyway, I think I had a bad experience with that also because of how negative and unwilling to actually open up to people I was at that time (I don't know if that's changed--haven't gone back). I also agree with you about the religious aspects of Al-anon, and I just can't force myself to get around that. I don't want to knock or discourage anyone from going there if it works for them, but for me... I don't believe in any "higher power" to give my feelings to, what ever that may be, so it simply doesn't work for me. However, you can form connections with some of the people there, and groups like that really do make you feel less disconnected and more understood. So if you could look past all the religious... stuff... it could be very beneficial, maybe even as a "quick" fix just to get you out of rough time.


"I really, really hate trying to talk to people, and hear them tell me that it can't really be *that bad* because obviously I'm doing "so well".

I've dealt with this a lot, especially when trying to tell my AF that I am just as dysfunctional as my brother. He doesn't believe me. I get quite angry at this myself and it's not right that we "heroes" get dismissed, but I think I'm starting to understand why people believe we are "okay." I mean, we spend/spent all of our time trying to be the perfect little face for the family--acting like everything is okay, being the perfectionist, working hard. As a society, we view these individuals as successful. Successful must mean happiness, right? NOT! Sometimes I think we even fool ourselves with all the acting we do. But, like you said, at the end of the day we cry ourselves to sleep (I know this is true for me when I'm having my "down times"). People don't see this side of us though and most of the time we don't want them to. So when we have our breakdowns, we feel those familiar feelings of isolation that we felt at home (no one to turn to there, that's for sure) and don't really know how else to behave.

"I'm just afraid that they're going to look at me and decide that I don't really need help (I've felt this before)."

It's been awhile since I've had a "break down" or felt these exact feelings (I seem to go through these up and down phases) so maybe that's why I can take a step back and look at this, rather than just full on agreeing with you. What you've gone through, what we've all gone through, was not right. These feelings go back to the core of the dysfunctional family about secrecy and denial, and this is why those feelings are so easy for us to rehash. Please, if anything else, don't feel like you're alone in your feelings. I'm not lying when I say that every time I read one of your posts, it's like if I changed some of the names and events, it would be my story.

dolce7dolore

Oh, just a thought. When I'm feeling down, I tend to listen to a lot of music and it really seems to help. Sometimes uplifting music, sometimes downright depressing/angry music. Most of the time, I listen to that music just for the lyrics regardless of whether or not I actually like the group. If you've never heard of Kelly Clarkson's song "Because of You," it's a great one. The Fray also have plenty of songs that fit most of my moods. For something uplifting (and from a great band), there's always Coldplay's "Fix You."

Anyway, sorry if I'm being annoying, but that was just an after thought of mine.

box3

Dothi, I had my second appointment with my new psychologist yesterday, and do you know what he said?

So I pointed him to my DASS score and reiterated the spiel about 'looking vs being'. You're not alone in your quest to find help. I'm positive it's out there though, sometimes it just takes a bit more work and explicit communication to find it.

dothi

Hey dolce7dolore,

Quote:

Sometimes I think we even fool ourselves with all the acting we do. But, like you said, at the end of the day we cry ourselves to sleep (I know this is true for me when I'm having my "down times"). People don't see this side of us though and most of the time we don't want them to. So when we have our breakdowns, we feel those familiar feelings of isolation that we felt at home (no one to turn to there, that's for sure) and don't really know how else to behave.

I think this hits the nail on the head for many of us heroes. The formula for dysfunction is still the same. We didn't get to learn how to ask for help or show weakness - we don't even know how to express it to ourselves. But those needs are still there - even if we don't understand these needs that we are having :crazy

re: music. I will make more time for this. The drive to and from work just isn't enough time. You're right - sometimes it's the one thing that helps. When I was going through the decision to move away from my family, I listened to a lot of angry metal. I went through a good Rammstein phase which was very liberating. During my masters I had some good friends who had lived in Germany previously. They introduced me to industrial metal and explained the more political aspect of this music. I was very happy to realize that what I enjoyed wasn't just random "hate" music. As a "mild-mannered" woman I felt like I was re-living the chance to have "normal" angsty teen feelings towards my parents - "normal" feelings that I missed out expressing in my teen years.

Hey box3, I had started seeing a counsellor over the summer and had an appointment with him last night. Even after I explained that I am concerned about my depression, he commented how strange that was since I gave off so much positive energy. I also got a speech on how now I can be the parent for my inner child (yeah, yeah, I get the inner child stuff, but telling me to go off and parent myself through depression is not a particularly useful suggestion IMO). Ummm, next please?

re: looking is not the same as being. It's a rare treat of honesty when you have someone who understands that how you feel may not be how you're looking. You don't even have to talk about how you're feeling - just to have that acknowledged is very unburdening.

I'm with you 100%. I know good help is out there. I know for myself that there are some loose ends that still need to be fixed because my brain/body is telling me that something somewhere needs work. Maybe in the end I'll have to figure it out on my own, but if I can be lucky enough to find that help, it'll help the journey - just as this forum has!

Thanks again everyone. It really helps to know I'm not crazy or defective for still going through these lows. I've had a lot of good things happen to me too that have gotten me to where I am now. It's hard not to get frustrated when I hit a low because it feels like what more can I ask for? (haven't I had enough help already?) Progress, not perfection

ICant

hi dothi
I can relate to the difficulty of finding the right therapist. I have been on and off in therapy since I was 18 and I am now 36. What is weird is when I was in my 20's, the therapists I saw wanted to talk about my childhood and my attitude was "you are kidding. My childhood was fine. It was normal. Yeah my dad was controlling and a little bit abusive but I never seeked his approval so his rejection didn't bother me. I want to talk about this particular situation with my friends/school/work" I always switched to therapists who did cognitive behaviour therapy.

Late last year after attending Al-Anon a huge light bulb went on and I had to admit of course my childhood affected me. So I went back to the therapy ready and willing to talk about my childhood. The twist is that this time they didn't want to know about it! They offered cognitive behaviour therapy again. I'm over it. I have rationalised my situation to death now. I need more.

The answer for me has been Al-Anon and a belief in a higher power. By the time I got to Al-Anon I felt broken. My frame of mind at the time was, if the steps can help alkies and junkies turn into decent people (excuse the language but that was my attitude at the time), then the steps might help me. I'm a year into the program, going through the steps and I have found relief from my depression and anxieties.