clean up your act and others see you as arrogant
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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haennie you bring up good points as do some other people here but some of the usual approaches dont seem to apply and or work here.
Having been married for 15 years the lack of intimacy has been an issue since before that even. Its partly due to some things in her past. She did get therapy for a time. But I'll be honest from how I can figure it the lack of intimacy is a problem for me but not for her so she sees 0 need to address it. Much like my drinking was not a problem for me for a very long time and i selfishly felt there was then 0 need to address it.
I try my dangdest to encourage her when she starts a diet etc.. I'll run myself broke if it means she can have healthy good foods to eat I dont care its so important to me. I want her to be healthy. But for one reason or another she falls down and gives up. Rather then dusting herself off and taking another crack at it she sits in her pit and beats herself up over it. I'm sure many of us know this game all too well from our drinking days. But how to rescue her? I'm like the last person she wants to take advice from too it seems with all of this.
Someone posted a video from a speaker on youtube "My case is different" her situation is liekt his with food and diet. Some how in her head her case is different. Just like I was a special snowflake with my drinking problem etc.. She too is a special case with her eating and depression etc.. Its almost a "how dare I' give hr advice at times. Other times she wants to mimic my diet and just eat whatever I'm eating and copy me. I dont know how to to get her to understand that these changes need to come from within her she cant simply copy someone etc..
see the mix of "how dare I" to then another min wanting to copy me to another min sitting in her pit of dispair biting my hand if i try to reach out to her well its hard to know what the right thing to do next is.
over the years I feel as if I have tried dang near everything to resolve various issues. I've resigned myself to thinking I can only do so much. Just like she could only do so much to get me to quit drinking. I can only do so much to get her to behaive different. at the end of the day some degree of acceptance on my part is needed and some degree of change can only come from within her. all i can do is be supportive of whatever.
Having been married for 15 years the lack of intimacy has been an issue since before that even. Its partly due to some things in her past. She did get therapy for a time. But I'll be honest from how I can figure it the lack of intimacy is a problem for me but not for her so she sees 0 need to address it. Much like my drinking was not a problem for me for a very long time and i selfishly felt there was then 0 need to address it.
I try my dangdest to encourage her when she starts a diet etc.. I'll run myself broke if it means she can have healthy good foods to eat I dont care its so important to me. I want her to be healthy. But for one reason or another she falls down and gives up. Rather then dusting herself off and taking another crack at it she sits in her pit and beats herself up over it. I'm sure many of us know this game all too well from our drinking days. But how to rescue her? I'm like the last person she wants to take advice from too it seems with all of this.
Someone posted a video from a speaker on youtube "My case is different" her situation is liekt his with food and diet. Some how in her head her case is different. Just like I was a special snowflake with my drinking problem etc.. She too is a special case with her eating and depression etc.. Its almost a "how dare I' give hr advice at times. Other times she wants to mimic my diet and just eat whatever I'm eating and copy me. I dont know how to to get her to understand that these changes need to come from within her she cant simply copy someone etc..
see the mix of "how dare I" to then another min wanting to copy me to another min sitting in her pit of dispair biting my hand if i try to reach out to her well its hard to know what the right thing to do next is.
over the years I feel as if I have tried dang near everything to resolve various issues. I've resigned myself to thinking I can only do so much. Just like she could only do so much to get me to quit drinking. I can only do so much to get her to behaive different. at the end of the day some degree of acceptance on my part is needed and some degree of change can only come from within her. all i can do is be supportive of whatever.
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shes an emotional eater will even admit to it. she honestly reminds me a lot fo an alcoholic in many ways shes just got some other vices other then alcohol. suggesting she go to a meeting heck even AA to maybe learn about my problems would probably be laughed off etc.. she would not be seen in a meeting like that etc.. I bet. and I get it there was a time i would have never been seen at a place like AA.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
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I would suggest you stay completely out of her food issues.
If you cannot live with the lack of physical closeness, that's a huge problem.
Both of you would benefit from counseling. Call your insurance provider and ask for help.
If you cannot live with the lack of physical closeness, that's a huge problem.
Both of you would benefit from counseling. Call your insurance provider and ask for help.
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Zion, Illinois
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Originally Posted by zjw 
I play that card My wife is pretty good at maken it my business like it or not however. The rest while it can bother me its easier to look the other way.
Trudgin
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,348
Originally Posted by zjw
I honestly do not think that this disharmony is because of that maybe a little? but not much. That doesnt mean I dont have to or shouldnt make ammends tho in my mind.
I'm really stuck on making ammends with her. In my mind my actions speak volumes and that ammends. Its very possible that she still would very much like to hear an apology of sorts. I have a disconnect in my head as an apology the words would mean very little to me sure they might mean something to her but what meant a lot to me was the 3+ years of sobriety and action. So to now apologize and such feel it might be empty on my part to some degree. I guess I might even have some anger that hey how come my actions for the last 3 years where not good enough?
I keep telling myself she probably would just like to hear it and for her sake I shoudl probably just say it. But I'd like there to be some substance in my words and i'm just at a loss for the right words and when I thnk of something decent I think do i really mean this? I mean the actions for the last few years but this now? I feel as if i'm going through the motions IE its just a formality and I dont like that it feels that way.
Sometimes she will complain I do not compliment her. well I've tried to but my version of a compliment is diff. I might say something like you stuck with that new thing your where gonna do. (acknowledging it) rather then hey you stuck with that new thing your gonna do good job (complimenting). I also dont just give out compliments unless i mean them so they dont come easily out of me. Top that off with 99% of the time if i do compliment her i get hit with "you just wanna get in my pants" it pretty much turns me off with trying to dishout compliments (yes i've told her all this and she still does it).
what is everyones take on my issues with ammends. I probably just need to get over myself and apologize. I just wanna be sure I mean those words. Yeah I know i got the actions to back that up but apparently those actions dont mean much.
I'm really stuck on making ammends with her. In my mind my actions speak volumes and that ammends. Its very possible that she still would very much like to hear an apology of sorts. I have a disconnect in my head as an apology the words would mean very little to me sure they might mean something to her but what meant a lot to me was the 3+ years of sobriety and action. So to now apologize and such feel it might be empty on my part to some degree. I guess I might even have some anger that hey how come my actions for the last 3 years where not good enough?
I keep telling myself she probably would just like to hear it and for her sake I shoudl probably just say it. But I'd like there to be some substance in my words and i'm just at a loss for the right words and when I thnk of something decent I think do i really mean this? I mean the actions for the last few years but this now? I feel as if i'm going through the motions IE its just a formality and I dont like that it feels that way.
Sometimes she will complain I do not compliment her. well I've tried to but my version of a compliment is diff. I might say something like you stuck with that new thing your where gonna do. (acknowledging it) rather then hey you stuck with that new thing your gonna do good job (complimenting). I also dont just give out compliments unless i mean them so they dont come easily out of me. Top that off with 99% of the time if i do compliment her i get hit with "you just wanna get in my pants" it pretty much turns me off with trying to dishout compliments (yes i've told her all this and she still does it).
what is everyones take on my issues with ammends. I probably just need to get over myself and apologize. I just wanna be sure I mean those words. Yeah I know i got the actions to back that up but apparently those actions dont mean much.
I was also instructed by my sponsor, specially with my wife in mind - to use the word wrong and not sorry.
" Honey, when I did xyz - it was wrong. Is there anything I can do to make you whole?" Then I was told just listen without interruption or knee jerk response. Again, this is to heal YOU with the benefit - perhaps - of healing the other person. It is done because we must ..... we will not regret the past.
Your point is well taken and I agree - each day we don't drink we make living amends to those we love and harmed. No doubt!!
I have been married 31 years......There are things I simply cannot change. That's life. But it was healing simply to say - I was wrong.
It is not recommended to do this ad hoc - a qualified sponsor should prepare one. We do not necessarily bring up issues, perhaps infidelity for example, in specific ways for example. UNLESS the other person pushes this and wants book, chapter and verse. We do not try to clear our conscious by dumping our old crap on someone else though.
This is my understanding.......
Kind Regards,
FlyN
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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I like the cleanup my side of the street approach and keeping my nose in my own business and not careing what others thing. this has served me well even with my wife. But in the end she has a way of YANKING Me over to her side of the street and rubbing my nose into my dirt?, her dirt?, our dirt? i walk away feeling guilty and tend submit to whatever it is with her there after. I have recognized this in me since I sobered up. and many many times I refuse to feel guilty I refuse to allow her to guilt me into serving whatever the agenda is. I dunno if she does this on purpose or if she even realizes shes doing this or not. I've mentioned it here and there and she laughs. So I think she knows and just finds it humerous even tho it does truely bother me. If i go further and say this does truely bother me she will pull something up that i did wrong and guilt me to death over it rather then staying on topic and addressing my issue.
Counseling might be good for us. Lord knows you guys are all telling me the same old things many others over the years that know both me and her well have said.
getting her to go along with counseling however I dunno. I dont have insurance i cant afford to pay for it no one to watch my kids and then getting her to go along and if she does go along god i dont want her to think our marriage is on the rocks becuase its not.
while I might be gripeing about a few tings here on this site the reality is i am very happily married over all.
I think I need to work on this ammends thing I'm thinking of writing her a letter that will then spur a conversation. I'll try and make her feel better about her self and tone down some topics I talk about diet exercise etc... I'll see where this takes me. if i see things improving great if not then maybe counseling will be in order at that time.
shes so hormonal too. the min she stops breast feeding things might improve tremendously as well for all i know.
Counseling might be good for us. Lord knows you guys are all telling me the same old things many others over the years that know both me and her well have said.
getting her to go along with counseling however I dunno. I dont have insurance i cant afford to pay for it no one to watch my kids and then getting her to go along and if she does go along god i dont want her to think our marriage is on the rocks becuase its not.
while I might be gripeing about a few tings here on this site the reality is i am very happily married over all.
I think I need to work on this ammends thing I'm thinking of writing her a letter that will then spur a conversation. I'll try and make her feel better about her self and tone down some topics I talk about diet exercise etc... I'll see where this takes me. if i see things improving great if not then maybe counseling will be in order at that time.
shes so hormonal too. the min she stops breast feeding things might improve tremendously as well for all i know.
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Eastern Us
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You changed the marriage dynamic when you got sober. If you read here long enough you will see this pattern again and again. The past is gone. Fix what you can and move on. If your wife seems committed to dragging you constantly back there, even after you have tried to address her concerns, you may need to think about hoe badly you want this relationship. The fact is not all marriages survive sobriety.
torquemax777
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Montrose CO
Posts: 350
Maybe drop in on an Alanon meeting, read some of the friends and family forums, check out that Co dependent No More book.... For one, you are in danger of becoming co dependent when you say stuff like, "I just want to fix her." For two, the friends and family forum can give you some ideas of how spouses of even "recovering" alcoholics feel and what they go thru when spouses quit drinking.
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
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Part of the journey of an alcoholic seems to involve conflict with others in one form or another at times. The steps promise a profound alteration in our reaction to life where these issues wont bother us. We will instictively be able to handle situations that used to baffle us. And the first thing I would like to say to you zjw is that you are not always in the wrong. Others can be wrong too.
Something that has been said by more than one poster might well point to the source of the problem in AA terms. (Relationship counselling I leave to those actually qualified). It reminded me of a discussion I had with a young man of some five years sobriety. His life had changed quite a lot in that time, he had a growing business, a lovely wife, and the means to head off on an overseas trip.
He was vexed that his wife and others did not show more appreciation of him. The words he used were that the people in his life were completey unappreciative and ungrateful for what he had achieved in getting sober.
Seeing it was all his achievement, he had nothing to be grateful for himself, but he expected those around him to show gratitude for him getting sober and not messing up their lives anymore. I wonder, was he still playing God. Didn't we read about this sort of thing on page 61 and 62. Aren't his actions described, and the reactions of the people around him? "And do not his actions make each of them wish to retaliate, snatching all they can get out of the show? Is he not, even in his best moments a producer of confusion rather than harmony?"
"Is he not a victim of the delusions that he can wrest satisfaction from this life if only he manages well?"
Perhaps if he were to put the credit where it belongs, to God, AA, and the people who have stuck by him, perhaps if he were to show a little gratitude through service to them without expectation, perhaps it was time for him to quit playing God.
I don't know if he was willing to do that. He was tired of the effort he was putting in and the lack of appropriate reward. He felt he had met his obligations to AA, "done all the service he was going to do". He was set to resign from AA. I don't know what happened to him. He may be fine, but on my last visit to his town, he was now where to be found.
Something that has been said by more than one poster might well point to the source of the problem in AA terms. (Relationship counselling I leave to those actually qualified). It reminded me of a discussion I had with a young man of some five years sobriety. His life had changed quite a lot in that time, he had a growing business, a lovely wife, and the means to head off on an overseas trip.
He was vexed that his wife and others did not show more appreciation of him. The words he used were that the people in his life were completey unappreciative and ungrateful for what he had achieved in getting sober.
Seeing it was all his achievement, he had nothing to be grateful for himself, but he expected those around him to show gratitude for him getting sober and not messing up their lives anymore. I wonder, was he still playing God. Didn't we read about this sort of thing on page 61 and 62. Aren't his actions described, and the reactions of the people around him? "And do not his actions make each of them wish to retaliate, snatching all they can get out of the show? Is he not, even in his best moments a producer of confusion rather than harmony?"
"Is he not a victim of the delusions that he can wrest satisfaction from this life if only he manages well?"
Perhaps if he were to put the credit where it belongs, to God, AA, and the people who have stuck by him, perhaps if he were to show a little gratitude through service to them without expectation, perhaps it was time for him to quit playing God.
I don't know if he was willing to do that. He was tired of the effort he was putting in and the lack of appropriate reward. He felt he had met his obligations to AA, "done all the service he was going to do". He was set to resign from AA. I don't know what happened to him. He may be fine, but on my last visit to his town, he was now where to be found.
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Join Date: May 2012
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Hey zjw - I'm from the "other side" but I wanted to share my experience in case you find it helpful.
I went through something similar to what you describe with my RAH when he got sober & healthier. It kinda lurked in the background & then surprised me with all these mixed feelings.
In my situation it was "How dare you" (as you put it,
) as in - How dare you get healthy & leave me sick? How dare you go from being so needy & problematic to having all the time in the world to work on your Self & your Health while I am still stuck in many of the same old dynamics in our lives..... caretaking for the kid, the house, etc. How dare you have time (as if he wanted to be unemployed) and how dare you get into shape while I can't seem to get the time to walk around the block (right, cuz he liked having to ride his bike everywhere due to his DUI/no license). I could go on but you get the idea.
His recovery as an alcoholic told him that he needed to make Sobriety his #1 priority & while I understand that NOW, at the time it just presented as yet another stage of selfishness in his behavior.
I didn't prioritize my own recovery but I expected HIM to, which is completely backward. I somehow seemed to think that by becoming sober he should be paying rapt attention to my every need without saying a word. I had expectations that were unfair & not expressed. I had to learn to make MYSELF a priority, stop martyring myself into thinking things were going to stay stuck that way, and TELL HIM WHAT I NEEDED. (which was a long process, first I had to identify for myself what that was.) I hope this helps, even just a little!
I went through something similar to what you describe with my RAH when he got sober & healthier. It kinda lurked in the background & then surprised me with all these mixed feelings.
In my situation it was "How dare you" (as you put it,
) as in - How dare you get healthy & leave me sick? How dare you go from being so needy & problematic to having all the time in the world to work on your Self & your Health while I am still stuck in many of the same old dynamics in our lives..... caretaking for the kid, the house, etc. How dare you have time (as if he wanted to be unemployed) and how dare you get into shape while I can't seem to get the time to walk around the block (right, cuz he liked having to ride his bike everywhere due to his DUI/no license). I could go on but you get the idea.His recovery as an alcoholic told him that he needed to make Sobriety his #1 priority & while I understand that NOW, at the time it just presented as yet another stage of selfishness in his behavior.
I didn't prioritize my own recovery but I expected HIM to, which is completely backward. I somehow seemed to think that by becoming sober he should be paying rapt attention to my every need without saying a word. I had expectations that were unfair & not expressed. I had to learn to make MYSELF a priority, stop martyring myself into thinking things were going to stay stuck that way, and TELL HIM WHAT I NEEDED. (which was a long process, first I had to identify for myself what that was.) I hope this helps, even just a little!
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,229
Hey zjw - I'm from the "other side" but I wanted to share my experience in case you find it helpful.
I went through something similar to what you describe with my RAH when he got sober & healthier. It kinda lurked in the background & then surprised me with all these mixed feelings.
In my situation it was "How dare you" (as you put it, ) as in - How dare you get healthy & leave me sick? How dare you go from being so needy & problematic to having all the time in the world to work on your Self & your Health while I am still stuck in many of the same old dynamics in our lives..... caretaking for the kid, the house, etc. How dare you have time (as if he wanted to be unemployed) and how dare you get into shape while I can't seem to get the time to walk around the block (right, cuz he liked having to ride his bike everywhere due to his DUI/no license). I could go on but you get the idea.
His recovery as an alcoholic told him that he needed to make Sobriety his #1 priority & while I understand that NOW, at the time it just presented as yet another stage of selfishness in his behavior.
I didn't prioritize my own recovery but I expected HIM to, which is completely backward. I somehow seemed to think that by becoming sober he should be paying rapt attention to my every need without saying a word. I had expectations that were unfair & not expressed. I had to learn to make MYSELF a priority, stop martyring myself into thinking things were going to stay stuck that way, and TELL HIM WHAT I NEEDED. (which was a long process, first I had to identify for myself what that was.) I hope this helps, even just a little!
I went through something similar to what you describe with my RAH when he got sober & healthier. It kinda lurked in the background & then surprised me with all these mixed feelings.
In my situation it was "How dare you" (as you put it, ) as in - How dare you get healthy & leave me sick? How dare you go from being so needy & problematic to having all the time in the world to work on your Self & your Health while I am still stuck in many of the same old dynamics in our lives..... caretaking for the kid, the house, etc. How dare you have time (as if he wanted to be unemployed) and how dare you get into shape while I can't seem to get the time to walk around the block (right, cuz he liked having to ride his bike everywhere due to his DUI/no license). I could go on but you get the idea.
His recovery as an alcoholic told him that he needed to make Sobriety his #1 priority & while I understand that NOW, at the time it just presented as yet another stage of selfishness in his behavior.
I didn't prioritize my own recovery but I expected HIM to, which is completely backward. I somehow seemed to think that by becoming sober he should be paying rapt attention to my every need without saying a word. I had expectations that were unfair & not expressed. I had to learn to make MYSELF a priority, stop martyring myself into thinking things were going to stay stuck that way, and TELL HIM WHAT I NEEDED. (which was a long process, first I had to identify for myself what that was.) I hope this helps, even just a little!
I'd be willing to bet she has some of the same feelings you have. I have not suggested it too much But more latly i drop a little bit of tidbits about how spouses of alcoholics need support too etc.. Hoping she'll seek some support of her own.
Its true its like I left her behind in my dust. I feel bad about that I really do but I new way back when that one of us had to clean up our act for the benefit of hte both of us and our family. And I had hoped that If i could do it. If I could be the strong one and get my crap together I could then reach out and help her. I did not really expect to get my hand bit off however.
I'm accepting of her. she'll come around in her own time but that doesnt mean we dont have out difficult moments in the meantime hence this thread.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
She does need support, but she needs to SEE that to reach out for it. I'll bet she has her hands full & can't imagine adding one more thing to that long list.
A lot of F&F also balk at their own needs for recovery because they see it as YOUR (the alcoholic's) problem, not THEIRS.... so why exactly should they need therapy for YOUR issues?
It's a difficult mindset to get around for sure, you think.... I've been through all of this Hell and now *I* find out that *I* need therapy/counseling/recovery? As if!
I'm sure having a baby in the last year & all the hormone changes that go with it & breastfeeding aren't helping the situation at all, but you have a great attitude about the situation despite the negative reaction you are getting. Hopefully she'll open up to the idea of Al-Anon or some kind of counseling. Wishing you luck!
A lot of F&F also balk at their own needs for recovery because they see it as YOUR (the alcoholic's) problem, not THEIRS.... so why exactly should they need therapy for YOUR issues?
It's a difficult mindset to get around for sure, you think.... I've been through all of this Hell and now *I* find out that *I* need therapy/counseling/recovery? As if!
I'm sure having a baby in the last year & all the hormone changes that go with it & breastfeeding aren't helping the situation at all, but you have a great attitude about the situation despite the negative reaction you are getting. Hopefully she'll open up to the idea of Al-Anon or some kind of counseling. Wishing you luck!
Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 219
Zjw-- Your wife sounds verbally abusive to me. "Walking on eggshells" is a common phrase used to describe how partners of abusers feel. It doesn't matter if she's insecure or upset about something-She shouldn't attack you when you haven't done anything to her, and she should be able to listen to your suggestions without mocking you.
I don't know what all's going on in your marriage but I'll just suggest doing some research into what verbal abuse looks like and different techniques used, particularly "gaslighting" and "crazy making". Guilting someone is what abusive control freaks always do to get their way. Like I said I don't know what's going on in the marriage or what the problems are but I get the impression she isn't being fair at all. Wishing the best for you both
I don't know what all's going on in your marriage but I'll just suggest doing some research into what verbal abuse looks like and different techniques used, particularly "gaslighting" and "crazy making". Guilting someone is what abusive control freaks always do to get their way. Like I said I don't know what's going on in the marriage or what the problems are but I get the impression she isn't being fair at all. Wishing the best for you both
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 219
Here copied and pasted from a domestic violence website (not that your wife is violent or scary but she could still be doing this to you)....
“You’re crazy – that never happened.”
“Are you sure? You tend to have a bad memory.”
“It’s all in your head.”
Does your partner repeatedly say things like this to you? Do you often start questioning your own perception of reality, even your own sanity, within your relationship? If so, your partner may be using what mental health professionals call “gaslightighting"
“You’re crazy – that never happened.”
“Are you sure? You tend to have a bad memory.”
“It’s all in your head.”
Does your partner repeatedly say things like this to you? Do you often start questioning your own perception of reality, even your own sanity, within your relationship? If so, your partner may be using what mental health professionals call “gaslightighting"
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,229
lovesymphony I grew up with a manipulative verbaly and physically abusive step father. and Have asked myself the same questions when it comes to my wife. Thinking oh god did i enter into another relationship like this ::facepalm::
Shes mild in comparison to how he was and I sometimes wonder if she even realizes what shes doing or not. But in order to combat that since I've sobered up and more so lately now and then I will purposely call her out on the game to let her know that I recognize the game that is being played and if she is conciesly playing said game she might want to rethink it that I'm no fool etc...
See I think when i was drunk all those years she was able to get away various things and i was too drunk to realize or care or both. Now that I've sobered up its not so simple. Not to toot my own horn but I'm pretty quick and sharp but I'm not always showing the other party my hand but rather watching whats going on to see how it plays out.
So yes to your point I dont think your coming out of left field with that idea. I've pondered it myself. Just trying to think of how to handle it in a peaceful fashion. I really dont want any trouble or issues etc..
Shes mild in comparison to how he was and I sometimes wonder if she even realizes what shes doing or not. But in order to combat that since I've sobered up and more so lately now and then I will purposely call her out on the game to let her know that I recognize the game that is being played and if she is conciesly playing said game she might want to rethink it that I'm no fool etc...
See I think when i was drunk all those years she was able to get away various things and i was too drunk to realize or care or both. Now that I've sobered up its not so simple. Not to toot my own horn but I'm pretty quick and sharp but I'm not always showing the other party my hand but rather watching whats going on to see how it plays out.
So yes to your point I dont think your coming out of left field with that idea. I've pondered it myself. Just trying to think of how to handle it in a peaceful fashion. I really dont want any trouble or issues etc..
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