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clean up your act and others see you as arrogant

Old 11-18-2014, 03:53 PM
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zjw
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Any time one partner makes big changes the other one is going to feel insecure. You dropped a bunch of weight, started a whole new exercise lifestyle - I'll bet it required a big chunk of time away from her. Maybe she feels threatened? Like that you are having an affair or are thinking of leaving her?

Any time I feel insecure, what I want is to be validated and to be told that things are okay, and that there is nothing to worry about and that my partner still loves me and is not thinking about leaving. I would be very insecure if my partner suddenly did a 180* in his habits and appearance. It's unnerving. Especially if I were over weight like your wife. Add to that a bunch of arguing and it's bound to be tense.
shes said everything you stated with the excepton of admiting to feeling inescure or anything of fault on her end. Its all my fault however that she feels has to wory or be concerned about any of this because as she put it "i'm not the man she married" i've heard that a bunch of times.

how to make her feel more secure then I wonder?
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Old 11-18-2014, 03:55 PM
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strange thing is all at the same time she has told me she's happy i lost weight and sobered up etc... maybe shes happy for me but not happy with how it makes her feel?

I get the vibe she wants her habits etc.. validated. I no longer sit down and plow the ice cream along side her or what not simply not doing that tells her i'm not validating her behaivior. but what can i do? I'm trying to eat healthy and such.
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Old 11-18-2014, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by zjw View Post
strange thing is all at the same time she has told me she's happy i lost weight and sobered up etc... maybe shes happy for me but not happy with how it makes her feel?

I get the vibe she wants her habits etc.. validated. I no longer sit down and plow the ice cream along side her or what not simply not doing that tells her i'm not validating her behaivior. but what can i do? I'm trying to eat healthy and such.
Sometimes when we make such significant self improvements it holds up a mirror to those around us.....
IDK, All you can do is let her know how much you love her and do your best to make her feel secure....
(it kinda sounds like insecurity and perhaps a little resentment to me.) The fact that you have changed for the
better maybe in time will translate to a good example to follow...Perhaps not, in the end it is her choice what she eats.
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Old 11-18-2014, 04:31 PM
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As to the original question: No, lot's of people thought I was an arrogant ******* for a long time. My BIL thought(thinks?) it because I can do everything he can't and I go do it when my sister asks. I've tried to tell him that the only difference is I try and fail until I learn how to do it right. THAT pissed him off. To him, it was like I was saying he doesn't even try to do things. Well?

All you can do is be your new and improved self.
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Old 11-18-2014, 06:27 PM
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She sounds like a very dominant women. Good luck with that one.

Just look out for your own health and do what you know is right.

I know a lot about health foods and health in general and its a real pleasure to talk to a women who knows about it also. But its no fun to talk to a women who knows nothing about it or thinks its all rubbish and says things like, "you're gonna die anyways"

Do what you do and be proud of it.
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Old 11-18-2014, 07:55 PM
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There seems to be more than one issue here, zjw.

Yes, people are often threatened by confidence in others, and this can be intensified in a marriage when one of the two changes radically and becomes more confident as a result of those changes. If your confidence is at issue here, then what you describe is understandable. But I'm not there and I'm only getting one side of the story, so I can't know what's going on or what to do about it. The bottom line is, if you want your marriage to survive and flourish, something new needs to be tried. There are sliding-scale and income-based clinics that offer couples therapy that you might want to look into.

Radical changes also signal the changed person moving away from the previous relationship, and tends to make the other person feel insecure and often left out. This emerges with a new job, new interests and new perspectives on life, to say nothing of cutting back on shared experiences. It happens all the time.

Those other people -- friends, family, co-workers -- who are impressed by your progress and your ability to make meaningful changes in your life...none of them are your wife. They don't live with you, they haven't gone through what your wife has gone through with you while you were drinking. It's a whole different ballgame.

When you tell your wife that she's "taking it the wrong way," you are, in fact, erasing her feelings and further distancing yourself from her. Doesn't make you a bad person, but that's what she's telling you. It's only natural that she'd feel unheard and unseen, and this almost always leads to fear which, in turn, presents as anger and irritability. Most of us would much rather be angry than afraid.

On a previous thread, you talked about how you weren't ready to go through the pain and suffering you brought to your relationship while you were drinking and, as I recall, you tended to minimize that process. I don't know of any couple that can survive happily or survive at all if amends for past hurts are not rigorously confronted. As much as we may wish that this weren't so, making amends allows for growth, strength, renewed affection, trust and feelings of togetherness in relationships, while leaving past hurts on the shelf only destroys all of these things, sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly.

Sobriety, living a sober life, doesn't stop with putting down the drink and getting healthy. Most of us have hurt other people along the way, and that needs to be dealt with in a mature and caring manner. I think the best thing you can do right now, and since you can't find a way to get yourselves to therapy, is to revisit making amends with your wife. Not only will making amends reduce her fears and allow her to feel that she's still important to you, but it will allow you to move forward with your sobriety and with your life in ways that you cannot now imagine.
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Old 11-18-2014, 08:11 PM
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Sounds kinda like an addict: gaslighting, blame shifting, rationalizing, excuses..... Is she maybe addicted to food and feels defensive? I'm probably pretty addicted to food, and feel some of this myself around thin and or healthy people. However, I do my best to realize that I am actually feeling conviction to change myself and don't want to admit it at that moment.
I agree with the above poster; as long as you're not being obnoxious and preachy, you aren't really doing anything wrong.
Having said that, I just thought of something that may help. Why not cook her a healthy candle light romantic dinner and maybe rent her favorite movie, when the moment's right try taking to her and relate your concerns about having to walk on eggshells, and that you just want to be healthy. Maybe suggest a way that you could both be healthy together. That can be tricky, but if you do it in a sensitive, gentle way that conveys your love for her and your desire to grow old together and not have health problems get in the way of your golden years.
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Old 11-18-2014, 09:17 PM
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I think in general it's better to share less than more when it comes to quitting stuff. This is my general opinion.

I'm a believer in walking the walk and not talking the talk. If you quit smoking don't smoke cigarettes. You don't really need to talk about it though. You quit drinking don't drink alcohol. Again no big need to blather on and on about it. Lose weight? Take the compliments and feel better about yourself but once again we don't need to talk about it, people can see it.

I'm not saying you did all of these things I'm just sharing how I feel in general. No bigger turnoff than holier than thou people.
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Old 11-18-2014, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by EndGameNYC View Post
Most of us would much rather be angry than afraid.
That's a deep insight, set in a very insightful post. Thanks for that.
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Old 11-18-2014, 11:22 PM
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It definitely changes the power dynamic in a relationship when a sloppy drunk becomes sober. This was the case for me. People aren't quite sure how to take you when they can't automatically distrust you and look down on you. I've heard many times that a spouse can feel uncomfortable when their partner get Sober because they are no longer the superior one way.

It's kind of like how morning people tend to look down on people who sleep in. I am the type that enjoys sleeping in on weekends. A few times when I've gotten up really early on a weekend my partner is kind of annoyed with me because he can no longer look down on me for sleeping in. Lol
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Old 11-19-2014, 05:07 AM
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thanks I think everyones posts are pretty spot on.

I think i'm going to work on trying to not discuss my diet and exercise as much. I dont preach it but its is something i'm into and simply bringing it up I think she feels i'm preaching or something. I'm gonna try and make her feel more secure.

Its been difficult shes been breast feeding this past year adn the little ones been in the bed. The mattress is unbearable so between that and the little one I refuse to sleepin the same bed. it hurts my back. Its depressing too and it has he wondering if theres something wrong as it should and it depresses me too but nothing i can do the matress is killing me.

Anyhow I'm going to try and make her feel more loved and secure. I've distanced myself a lot since I sobered up because she rejects me all the time always has. So something like making a romantic dinner like one person suggested would be met with "you just wanna get in my pants..." and so I just avoid complimenting her I avoid doing things like that because I dont want to hear comments like that or get rejected when i am truely trying to get into her pants (hey least i'm honest).

But this distancing myself has really thrown her for a loop. I've shut off a lot of emotions just as a way to protect myself and when I let them back on and i get these sorts of responses from her its very painful and i get scared I'll falter and do something I shouldnt etc..

I'll try and tone down my rhetoric even tho I'm not trying to preach it shes probably just taking it this way. being the obsessive person that i am this will leave me very little to talk about. I'm not into much of anything but running and diet.

I hope she doesnt start to wonder why i'm so quiety now *sigh* I dunnot hat i'll ever win.
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Old 11-19-2014, 05:22 AM
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zjw,

A recent earlier thread of yours discusses at three years not having made amends. Do you not think perhaps you're ready for this step? What is your sponsors opinion?

Maybe some of the disharmony is due to in part to this???

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Old 11-19-2014, 05:27 AM
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zj, slide a sheet of plywood under that mattress. That will help and is cheap. And touch. Not sexy touch, just touch. It does wonders for a relationship. Just touch.
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Old 11-19-2014, 05:32 AM
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A recent earlier thread of yours discusses at three years not having made amends. Do you not think perhaps you're ready for this step? What is your sponsors opinion?

Maybe some of the disharmony is due to in part to this???
I honestly do not think that this disharmony is because of that maybe a little? but not much. That doesnt mean I dont have to or shouldnt make ammends tho in my mind.

I'm really stuck on making ammends with her. In my mind my actions speak volumes and that ammends. Its very possible that she still would very much like to hear an apology of sorts. I have a disconnect in my head as an apology the words would mean very little to me sure they might mean something to her but what meant a lot to me was the 3+ years of sobriety and action. So to now apologize and such feel it might be empty on my part to some degree. I guess I might even have some anger that hey how come my actions for the last 3 years where not good enough?

I keep telling myself she probably would just like to hear it and for her sake I shoudl probably just say it. But I'd like there to be some substance in my words and i'm just at a loss for the right words and when I thnk of something decent I think do i really mean this? I mean the actions for the last few years but this now? I feel as if i'm going through the motions IE its just a formality and I dont like that it feels that way.

Sometimes she will complain I do not compliment her. well I've tried to but my version of a compliment is diff. I might say something like you stuck with that new thing your where gonna do. (acknowledging it) rather then hey you stuck with that new thing your gonna do good job (complimenting). I also dont just give out compliments unless i mean them so they dont come easily out of me. Top that off with 99% of the time if i do compliment her i get hit with "you just wanna get in my pants" it pretty much turns me off with trying to dishout compliments (yes i've told her all this and she still does it).

what is everyones take on my issues with ammends. I probably just need to get over myself and apologize. I just wanna be sure I mean those words. Yeah I know i got the actions to back that up but apparently those actions dont mean much.
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Old 11-19-2014, 05:34 AM
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zj, slide a sheet of plywood under that mattress. That will help and is cheap. And touch. Not sexy touch, just touch. It does wonders for a relationship. Just touch.
Lol I thought i was crazy thinking of the plywood idea hahha. I have not tried it yet tho. I was going to put it on top tho and just sleep on that. I've been trying the whole touch thing. I'd almost prefer that sometimes what comes out of her mouth stings too bad.
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Old 11-19-2014, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by zjw View Post
Top that off with 99% of the time if i do compliment her i get hit with "you just wanna get in my pants" it pretty much turns me off with trying to dishout compliments (yes i've told her all this and she still does it).
Women who can't take a compliment:

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Old 11-19-2014, 06:06 AM
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Compliments and Self-Esteem

More often than not, how receptive we are to compliments is a reflection of our self-esteem and deep feelings of self-worth. Specifically, compliments can make people with low self-esteem feel uncomfortable because they contradict their own self-views. People actively seek to verify their own perceptions of themselves, whether those are positive or negative. For example, in one study, college students with low self-esteem showed a stronger preference for keeping their current roommate if that roommate viewed them negatively, than if their roommate saw them more positively.

Continues here.
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Old 11-19-2014, 06:07 AM
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poolsidegal haha yeah that video is about right. shes miserable and I feel so bad for her but I dont know how to make her unmiserable. Reminds me about me and drinking no one could get me to quit but me. I think no one can get her out of her pit but her. all I can do is sit there offering to be supportive and hope I dont get my hand bit off.
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Old 11-19-2014, 06:13 AM
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zjw, maybe you can encourage her to join you and do things with you and help her in changing? She may be feeling insecure and/or scared that she cannot change. She may also be feeling some jealousy since she wants to change, but hasn't. Seeing you change may be amplifying those feelings much more.
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Old 11-19-2014, 06:41 AM
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It does sound like there are many issues here, long-term issues about the relationship between you and you wife, and individual problems as well. I'm not surprised this is not easy to resolve or handle. I would second the suggestions regarding therapy; if you cannot afford it together, maybe individually? For example, you don't mention what's behind the lack of intimacy (or desire) that naturally bothers you on your wife's side, it sounds like perhaps working though it with some professional help might have some benefits.

You are saying that you prefer to express yourself with your actions rather than words, but then you also say that you have distanced yourself from your wife for a good while, and you two obviously have communication problems. Have you tried to have open, honest conversations with her where you would start saying you would really like to understand what's going on on both sides and find out what should be done differently to improve the relationship? Do you know what the sources of her insecurities are? You seem to be frustrated that your "years of action" does not have result as far as the relationship goes, but probably most of your actions have been targeted towards yourself, to straighten out your own life. Not the interface between you two.

I'm also the kind of person who thinks actions speak louder than any words could, but sometimes saying the right words, words that the other person likes to hear, can work wonders. It really is just a form of doing things to each-other that the other likes sometimes, even if it's not our most natural course of behavior. Not lies, but adding a few kind words... how can those hurt? Maybe just think about the support here on SR. People clearly have many different styles of expression and supporting others, and also what type of support they find most helpful.

As for amends, if you want to apologize for the past, I would not come up with it out of the blue, but would probably try to embed it in an open and honest conversation I suggested above. If your wife tends to have guarded, angry responses... have you considered writing a letter to her expressing your feelings and apologies? I once had a boyfriend who had tons of personal insecurities coming from far past issues and lots of others, and he had a real hard time with serious f2f conversations. But we could "talk" about anything in writing. Did that for a while, and eventually speaking had become easier as well.

The amends in my mind don't necessarily need to be actions targeting or relating to the past. Could be any kind of support regarding to present problems, something she is struggling with, things where you could help here and now. I would probably choose things (at least initially) that are absolutely not suggestive of your desiring anything in return, expecting intimacy, etc. More neutral, practical things.

I was in a ~3 year-long relationship at the time when I quit drinking that underwent some pretty intense changes in dynamic when I got sober and started doing things differently. Eventually we decided to end it, but that decision was preceded by many many long and honest discussions, the communication was very good. But of course I did a lot of bad things while I was drinking, not abusive, but I really distanced myself from my partner emotionally, did not keep promises, was lying, etc. So when I sobered up, we talked about these past things also a lot. We are still colleagues after breaking up, so what I try to do is help her with work-related things and other practical things when there is a chance, she appreciates it.

I think it's possible that your wife might not accept your amends or would have problems expressing any appreciation as it seems she carries many resentments right now. This is where it would be important to do it in a way that makes it as clear as possible you are not performing these acts in anticipation of any sort of reward.

I would not expect the relationship to be fixed simply by making amends though, in my mind it would just be a necessary step and lot more work would be required.
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