miamifella

Sometimes internal contradictions within a share, sometimes the current share contradicts a previous one, sometimes outside knowledge. My job is critical thinking, and it is hard to turn that off.

I think the desire to show how soberly one is dealing with the world and how successful one has become since sobriety motivates people to enhance what they share.

It happens everywhere, not just in AA. But it annoys me more there because I think it is more dangerous there.

Ken33xx

Yes, particularly if he person deep down doesn't believe what they are sharing. It's one reason members suddenly say, "f-it" and never return.

LadyBlue0527

When I'm hearing something I don't care for I try to remind myself to find gratefulness in the fact that the person is right where they need to be.

With that being said when someone chairs and says "I'm not going to spend time going through my drunkalogue....." then 10 minutes later you realize what you're listening to this person share is their drunkalogue.

If you need to give a drunkalogue then give it!

It's not anyone's place to say what you should or should not share. True, the solution should also be focused on but jeese, by all means, please, tell me how you got here. I need to hear it to remind myself why I am here and newcomers need to also identify.

The only other thing that gets me are groups that are so full of ego when AA is about absence of just that.

We all have problems with alcohol and if I woke up at 8 this morning and you woke up at 7 you have an hour more sobriety than I do today.

uncle holmes

Not much bugs me about AA. If I'm not comfortable at a meeting, there's always other meetings to go to in most cases.

Eventually each of us has to find our own way in sobriety if we want to remain sober.

Much of my attitude towards AA is due to my acceptance. It bugs me sometimes that AA is so tightly guarded with it's traditions and only their way at recovering from alcoholism.

But I realize there's reasons why that has to be. And that's the strength I get from AA. It strengthens my faith. The BB and many members tell me that if I go to meetings, don't pick up that first drink, have faith in God, that no matter what I'm going through it will be alright.

Ken33xx

Usually it`s the time/location which dictates the meetings I`m going to attend. So, if there are a couple of members who feel what they have to say requires almost ten minutes I make do.

JamesfrmEngland

My main one is that aa members usually tout theirs as the only way of recovery that works. Maybe this is just around my area but such things I hear by smug members are "no one who does the 12-steps relapses and if you do you didn't do them properly"

paulokes

I personally don't think it's useful to claim AA is the only thing that works. AA has never claimed to be that.

However I do kinda agree that 100% adherence to the program of recovery guarantees results. To be honest 100% adherence to ANY abstinence-based program of recovery probably guarantees results. Just as anyone who genuinely studies and revises for an exam is likely to pass, and anyone who honestly sticks to the weight watchers program is likely to lose weight. It's true I think that most of us get in our own way.

Personally I dont believe that getting and staying sober is a matter of blind luck.

P

paulokes

^^ The three legacies...Unity, Service and Recovery...personal recovery through the application of the 12 steps, doing service regregularly at the group level or above-the-group level, and Unity through being a fully fledged fellow in the fellowship of AA.

Genuinely I don't think I have ever seen anyone practising all three of these aspects of recovery in their life and go straight from that to drinking. Something is usually missing beforehand.

P

tomsteve

could it be that they are saying their way is the only way that works FOR THEM?

tomsteve

should ford be building chevys because theyre both cars?
should lear build boats? theyre both methods of transportation.
should sober recovery help people with moderation? they both involve alcohol.

uncle holmes

Yes you're right tomsteve. But that's just my point. What if you work at Ford and are a diehard Ford guy but you prefer to drive a Chevy?

What if you're a diehard Michigan football fan and bleed maize and blue but you also happen to like Ohio State?

What if you're in AA and are a diehard AA person but also use other methods to recover from alcoholism that aren't widely accepted in AA?

paulokes

Something that troubles me...the serial relapsers who come back each time and seem to feel almost useful to the newcomer...that their own frequent relapses are a warning to others. And sometimes the group responds in the same way..."I'm glad you went out...that shows me it doesn't work".

I'm never glad to see someone relapse and it breaks my heart when folks come to believe that becoming a living breathing scare tactic is the best they can manage.

I heard someone say recently..."Be an example in AA...not a warning".

P

tomsteve

you can drive a chevy
die hard michigan fans DO NOT like that college down there.
why should other recovery methods be accepted in AA?

its pretty simple- people that want to talk about recovery methods other than AA go to meetings for those methods.
in AA we talk about the solution as it pertains to AA.
its been workin since,what,1935? why should AA allow other methods to be discussed in AA?
it has been proven that meetings that stray from our primary purpose- carry THIS message to the next sick and suffering alcoholic-dont last long.
if it aint broke dont fix it.

uncle holmes

An example is when some people in AA say the are a recovering alcoholic, not a recovered alcoholic. The BB clearly says "recovered" many times in the BB.

I too believe we have recovered if you're successful in staying sober. But if some people insist they are not recovered and only a recovering alcoholic and have long term sobriety, then apparently that's what works for them.

Ken33xx

I think of myself as a recovering alcoholic who takes things one day at a time. If another member takes issue that's on them.

And if someone prefers exercise to prayer in order to relive stress. I say right on with the right on.

Where I draw the line is material. It is an AA meeting and only AA approved literature should be used.

Gottalife

There are people recovering in AA. They are usually quite new and working their way through the steps. The end result of that process is the removal of the obsession with alcohol, at which point we have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body, which is just what the program set out to do.

In terms of carrying the message effectively, the big book even asks that we introduce ourselves as recovered alcoholics. My guess is that has something to do with sharing hope that you can actually recover from alcoholism. It is pretty hope destroying for someone with long sobriety to stand up and say after all these years they have not yet recovered. In effect they are saying that the book is wrong about that, and in the mind of the newcomer, if they are wrong about that, what else are they wrong about?

This is not the AA message. It is from the rehab industry which, like all successful businesses, likes to have repeat business. They like you to believe that you can only stay sober one arduous day at a time, tomorrow could be the day you pick up, that you can never actually recover, that you will always be walking on egg shells, and anyway, if you think your are recovered, your next drink is just around the corner.

It looks pretty silly to the wider community too. A while back a friend of mine called the local office to ask if a recovered alcoholic was available to talk to one of his employees. He was told that there was no such thing, that we are all recovering. He was understandably bemused by that. He asked me does AA work or not? Yes it does.

Ken33xx

I was never in rehab and everything I learned about recovery was in AA. One day at a time and the term recovering alcoholic were used and resonated with me. Now was the way I learned incorrect? Could it be I am not a "real" alcoholic?

Meetings, sponsorship, interpretation of how to work the program often vary. (Not unlike bible study meetings.) When people talk about AA being this or that I believe this often depends on the meeting and/or sponsor.

The one constant is the way meeting usually open and perhaps close.

Gottalife

What you hear in AA can differ markedly from the program. People get told all sorts of crap, and some of them believe it. The only true reference point in AA is the Big Book as that is where the program resides.

I did one of those word search things and found the word recovering is used once, the context being the wife dealing with a newly sober alcoholic. Was what you learned incorrect? Not from your point of view, you are still sober after all. But is what you learned the AA message?

Whether you got sold a bill of goods in AA has nothing to do with whether you are a real alcoholic, as far as I can see.

Ken33xx

Yes and if what helped me helps other so much the better.

And as with Bible study you'll find disagreements.

My feeling is this discussion has been going on since the introduction of the BB. It's nothing new and members have been arguing/splintering off since the beginning. All you need is a resentment and a pot of coffee to start a new meeting.

Gottalife

"The tremendous fact for every one of us is that we have discovered a common solution. We have a way out on which we can absolutely agree, and upon which we can join in brotherly and harmonious action. This is the great news this book carries to those who suffer from alcoholism."

It is a pity you don't seem able to join us in this agreement. I have found working with the proven solution a lot more effective for the newcomer than when I was adding Mike's optional and unproven extras.