soberhal9

AA is about teaching an alcoholic to apply practical spiritual principles in his life to remove the obsession to drink and drastically change his perception of the world for the better. It is a life altering experience when we apply these spiritual principles in our lives. The fellowship of AA provides support to the alcoholics. It is about receiving help, and giving help.

Joe Nerv

Well, actually.... Ummm....

Hmmm..

Damn.

freshstart57

I've read the BB and The 12 and 12, and I'm familiar with confession and prayers for divine assistance. But I keep hearing about some 'spiritual principles' here. What are they? What do they have to do with alcohol?

Joe Nerv

Some people believe alcoholism is a spiritual malady. If I remember correctly, you don't. And what you're doing to stay sober is quite different than what people in AA do. I question the sincerity of your question, and with good cause. I also don't have time right now to answer your questions more fully, or I would.

awuh1

I will attempt to follow the suggestion of Maxwell Maltz.. “always assume people have the best of intentions unless proven otherwise”.

I agree that AA approaches alcoholism as a spiritual malady. This notion is not exclusive to AA, nor was AA the first to view alcoholism in this way. Carl Jung, the founder of analytic psychology, also viewed it from this perspective. His approach with alcoholics was based on this understanding.

Alcoholics can be spiritually sick in many ways. Living a life based on spiritual principles removes a variety of causes that underlie an alcoholics drinking.

Here are a couple of lists of 'principles' involved in the AA literature. I tend to think of the principles just a bit differently, but this is a good starting point freshstart.
A.A. History - The AA Principles and Virtues
Principles of the Program

freshstart57

I understand these as listed in the first reference to be congruent to the seven cardinal virtues in the Catholic catechism of humility, charity, love, patience, chastity, temperance and diligence. Why not? They appear to come highly recommended. I guess where I depart here is the link drawn to alcohol addiction, which seems to be a matter of faith, and the assertion that they are spiritual principles as opposed to any other sort.

Thank you for replying in the spirit of my question, awuh.

Joe Nerv

My spiritual connection has been a bit off this past week . It's why I need to continue utilizing the 12 steps.

And while I say that somewhat in jest, it's very, very true.

awuh1

I tend to view spiritual principles as somewhat more general and all encompassing than principles from any specific religion or denomination, but I suspect that this goes back to the rather difficult task of defining what is spiritual.

As for the link to alcoholism I think its plain to see. I see alcoholics who have worked the program that are truly happy living a principled existence, as opposed to their former ways of attempting to take some of life’s shortcuts and ending up in the misery that was the result.

I guess this might be demonstrated with the principles stated above of humility, charity, love, patience, chastity, temperance and diligence. Do you think someone is more likely to maintain long term sobriety following them, or their opposites (grandiosity, malevolence, hate, impatience, fornication, intemperance and sloth)?

freshstart57

I don't think that there is anything particularly religious or spiritual about those principles, but a case can be made for both, and for either or neither for that matter. There is another list, about 'things I learned in kindergarten' that shows a similar congruence, and I don't think those principles are particularly spiritual or religious either.

I think that any of these lists do a dandy job as a blueprint for a principled life, and any one of them truly and deeply followed would at least lead to some degree of cognitive dissonance for the practicing alcoholic. And I agree, if one sets out to follow the seven deadly sins instead of the seven heavenly virtues, then being an alcoholic is wouldn't be a great stretch. It wouldn't be a necessary condition however, as I am sure that there are really bad folks who don't drink (they're everywhere). In the same sense, one could still try to live according to any or even all of these absolutes and still be an alcoholic, I suppose. Even good people have problems with substance abuse and addiction.

Which begs OP's question once again.

yeahgr8

My mistake! I could have written in my original post that I am looking for answers from people with real life experiences of how AA works or is working for them OR a brief summary of how a non-AA'er sees AA work.

A debate over the pros and cons of methodology of AA or of a life of adherence to the seven virtues vs seven deadly sins, then turning into a discussion on the meaning of existence is all too reminiscent of opinions floating around the Bar, maybe that's where these discussions should be left to be held, if at all?

freshstart57

Well said, and understood, gr8. Over and out.

paulokes

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. And look at the smile on my face

P

Db1105

As Dr. Bob said, it's all about love and service.

RobbyRobot

I think it important here to also make clear that Alcoholics Anonymous doesn't really make a claim to work as a solution to general alcoholism, but only is a real solution to alcoholism illness as suggested by AA itself. AA really doesn't claim to have the answers for alcoholism. Often enough Joe Public thinks AA generalizes its solution to everybody who problem drinks or is alcoholic. In fact, AA has a specific suggested solution to a specific class of alcoholics, as defined by AA itself, as having an alcoholic illness as described in its Big Book.

I am of the described type. AA's suggested program of recovery absolutely solved my problems with my alcoholism. My illness is arrested. My alcoholism is in remission. My sobriety is healthy and powerful. Living life the AA Way is a gift that keeps on giving much past the simplicity of my stopped alcoholism. Its not for everyone. Its best for those who freely accept in detail what AA suggests for alcoholism, and for the suggested treatment of that same alcoholism.

Great topic for a thread, yeahgr8. It's easy enough to see your of the same type as described. Awesome.

Joe Nerv

I think AA helps the alcoholic to recover in hundreds of different ways. The most imortant of them, IMO, being through a spirit of love. One person reaching out to help another. And loving and accepting them, just as they are. It also helps people to learn to live sober through lots and lots of practical advice and experience, and offers a spiritual soultion for those who want, and/or need it.

I'm also a believer that to be truly healthy human beings we need to work at and maintain physical, mental, spiritual, and social health. I believe that if any one of these are lacking, it will affect the others. I believe that this relates to my alcoholism in many different ways, too. Most obvious way is that if I were not healthy and happy drinking might one day enter my mind as an option. The flip side is that is that if alcohol DID enter the picture, it would quickly wipe out all 4 areas, which is a good reminder of why alcohol is deadly to me. Some people can drink, even to excess, and stay relatively healthy in every area... very a different picture for me .

AA, for me, is a perfect tool for the maintenance of my mental, spiritual and social health. From the time I was in 2nd grade, I rejected the Roman Catholic "spiritual" path I born into. What I learned in catholic school in 1967 made no sense to me, yet even at that early age I desired a relationship with a HP. My gut always told me there was more to existence than met the eye, and while I had no firm belief in anything I spent a good deal of my life praying for assistance and understanding, to an undefinable force. At 23 I felt my prayers had been answered, with crystal clear, hand written (at one time) directions on how I could lead the spiritual life I always desired. They were hanging on the shade on the wall in the hospital detox. And AA, plus the Bigbook helped clarify it all even more. Truly felt my prayers had been answered.

Getting back to my original point, I believe the meetings helped me immensely with my social and mental health. For lack of better words, I was a complete social ******. I was even beyond that, I was agoraphobic and couldn't function at all. AA helped me learn to socialize with people. Helped me form a network of friends who I could experience sober life with. Taught me it was possible to have fun in the world without alcohol. A LOT of fun. I don't ever want to forget or discount that. The people in AA kicked open doors that I can't imagine being kicked open in any other way. Meetings gave me a place to be, something to do every night in early sobriety. Something to fill the gargantuan void that alcohol left. And those meetings led to my being coerced into diners (something I NEVER enjoyed doing), dances, camping trips, softball, all kinds of things to do with sober people, even enrolling in college.... bla, bla, bla... yeah, it really helped me with my social health. And I needed probably the most work in that area.

The mental (emotional) part is a no brainer. By sharing at meetings and listening to others I got to learn through the real life experience of thousands upon thousands of wise people passing on what they had learned. An invaluable, to me, source of much needed information and tools.

I'm very grateful to be a member of AA.

Anyhoo... that's how I believe it works for me.

Would like to mention too that I really liked Robby's response. It was the clearest explanation I ever heard or read regarding AA's "solution" working for some and possibly not others.

jdooner

I just came from my therapy session and feeling good. I am chairing a meeting tonight and going to share my full story for the first time. A bit nervous actually.

I can't stop the thoughts I have from entering my mind. Sometimes I will be at a dinner like last week and think, "why can't I have a drink?" I know the answer but the thought will still come. Or I will hear a song, typically of house music that I got into for a couple years and think a line of coke would be great. The smell of diesel can also trigger the coke thought too, as good coke tastes and smells like diesel fuel.

What AA has given to me is a set of tools. Particularly the meditation tool, which I have expanded upon. Since I cannot stop the thoughts, without these tools, I would be destined for relapse. With a set of tools to deal with the thoughts and not acth upon them, particular the use of meditation, I am able to let my thoughts pass.

This has helped me beyond belief and has started spilling over into other areas of my life. People at work are noticing but many can't articulate it. They just sense I am better. I am becoming a better father and a husband - not a better husband but a husband as I was never one before.

I view AA as a lifestyle vs a technique. I don't take everything that is written or suggested but what I do take is helpful.

matt4x4

It gives you a set of instructions on living and how to deal with situations.
It gives you a Higher Power that you can rely on, to help with sobriety.
Meetings keep no one sober. Its working the steps that keeps a person sober.