Is there Buddhism in the 12th Step?

[Boleo]

"Having had a spiritual awakening (Buddha means THE AWAKENED ONE)
as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message
to alcoholics, and to practice these principles
(Dharma means practicing the PRINCIPLES of Buddha)
in all our affairs."

- All Big Book quotes from the 1st Edition -

[McGowdog]

If Buddhism gets you there, then do it!

I've been to some fantastic Buddha meditations. I'm very open-minded with that stuff... but I keep it plugged into A.A. as 11th Step work.

[bballdad]

I don`t think there is any buddism in step 12 of AA

[Quse56]

I am currently reading "One Breath at a Time; Buddhism and the 12 steps." I am getting a lot out of it. I think it helps those who have trouble with a man-like "God." Mind you, it is NOT a loophole for getting a Higher Power, praying, or turning over your will (I totally tried everything to avoid these things.) I do feel that there are parallels and this book is insightful, but really all it taught me is that AA can fit into ANY religion or spiritual practice. While it is not AA approved literature, it does not steer away from any AA prinicples. In fact, for me it enforces them. I am enjoying it. Along this vein is "Dharma Punx" a Memoir my Noah Levine that talks about his life in recovery and how he supplements his program with Buddhist teachings. It resonates with me and I dig it. Good luck!

[tommyk]

"Is there Buddhism in the 12th Step?"

If you want Buddhism to be there, then it is.

That's one of the facets of the program and the steps I can really relate with.

[MycoolFitz]

One of his students asked Buddha, "Are you the messiah?"
"No", answered Buddha.
"Then are you a healer?"
"No", Buddha replied.
"Then are you a teacher?" the student persisted.
"No, I am not a teacher."
"Then what are you?" asked the student, exasperated.
"I am awake", Buddha replied

The Buddha's wonderful insight was to see the pain arising from suffering as a symptom of a greater underlying problem. The answer lay not in numbing the self with intoxicants, food, or overwork, or to assuage it emotionally through others, or by love or sex addictions, or even compulsive religiosity, but to reach beyond the symptom to the disease itself: a misperception of our place in the universe.
__________________________________________________ _____________
Buddha, AA why not?

[keithj]

"Is there Buddhism in the 12th Step?"

Of course.

[miss communicat]

[QUOTE=Boleo;2282399]"(Buddha means THE AWAKENED ONE)

QUOTE]

actually, Buddha does not "mean" awakened one. The person, guatama, was and is often referred to as awakened.

The word "buddha" itself or "buddhic" in general refers to one of "the 8 great paths to knowing God". in this instance the BuddhA path, in original language it is called the Jnana Path, and that word literally tranlates to "the path of knowldege".

One who dedicates one's life to a Buddha or Jnana or Knowledge "path" may be called a Buddhist or that person may not take that designation.

For the record, this path involves living, breathing, walking, serving and working as well as perfunctory sitting in pristine meditative silence, for the purpose of "knowing" truth, and clarifying the mind chatter. Thus seated in truth, one may rest one's mind in one's heart, leading to compassion.

The Buddha path and the Christ Path are similar and different but are both beautiful. And, if one experiences a spiritual awakening one is in step 12, ready to carry the experience outward.

[tomvlll]

Is there any Buddha in Christianity? Most likely. The world's great religions were not founded in a vacuum

If you read Lewis Browne's book " This Believing World" , he explains how religions " borrowed major ideas and philosophies ' off other religions all the time.

This book was a major influence on Wilson, himself a great borrower of ideas. In fact ALL AA principles were borrowed from somewhere else.

[MycoolFitz]

Since things neither exist nor don’t exist,
Are neither real nor unreal.
Are utterly beyond adopting or rejecting—
One might as well burst out laughing.—Longchenpa

[digderidoo]

I find Buddhism compliments the 12 steps perfectly, but that's just me.

Paul

[Puddy]

Originally Posted by Boleo

(Dharma means practicing the PRINCIPLES of Buddha)

Forgive me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that Dharma meant "purpose" and that fulfilling your dharma meant fulfilling your purpose in life. I don't know that much about it though.

[Firehazard]

I have always looked at that as a dogma free zone. A personal spiritual awakening means exactly that and to me it is more of a Gnostic happening than attached to any of the major religions. I don't know though once I get there maybe there will be some buddism in it.

[preta]

Actually Buddha is the rough translation for "awake"...jnana in a Buddhist context is a pali word for a state of meditative absorption. The 8 paths you speak of are a hindu yogic system, and isnt Buddhism at all.
That being said, I find the steps in general are perfectly suited to a practicing Buddhist, as long as you WORK them and not read about them. That goes for all Buddhist principles as well. In both Buddhism and the steps, you cant tease apart the philosophy from the practice. I tried both separately and crashed and burned...I have to practice Buddhism and the steps as a single unit. This is my experience. Great thread!!

[navysteve]

If you read Lewis Browne's book " This Believing World" , he explains how religions " borrowed major ideas and philosophies ' off other religions all the time.

Great book but not for folks who don't appreciate logic as it applies to how religious ideas formed. Here is another I found fairly enlightened:

“12 Steps on Buddha’s Path: Bill, Buddha, and We,” by Laura S. | Wildmind Buddhist Meditation

[lostbutterfly]

If the major religions would look for similarities, and not their differences, they would find they have a lot in common!

[McGowdog]

Yes, I believe that to be true. I've heard they all have the same basic principles. But let me not seek the knowledge of those principles... but rather to experience them.

I'm in the chop wood/carry water phase of that right now.

[tomvlll]

Religions have always borrowed ideas from other other religions.

[ananda]

Originally Posted by navysteve

Great book but not for folks who don't appreciate logic as it applies to how religious ideas formed. Here is another I found fairly enlightened:

“12 Steps on Buddha’s Path: Bill, Buddha, and We,” by Laura S. | Wildmind Buddhist Meditation

thank you because of the nature of this thread i am posting here..hesitantly to be honest.

there is, in my very limited understading, a connection strongly between the 12 steps and buddhism. however i am finding it diffcult.

if i were a buddha..enlightened one... i would not..in fact within the teachings i follow..if i were enlightened, i probably wouldn't even follow the buddhist path but the cultural path of my nation which hapens to be christianity..if there is no diference as my teacher says..there is no reason to become a buddhist lol

i really like laura S.'s stuff much much more than keith griffin..who many people look too..but that is personal preferance..again..according to my understaning of buddism they are all the same...however i am a human born in the human condition..and it is hard for me.

I just drank after 2 years...and i did have 7 years once based on my budisum as well as my AA background.

is there budism in the 12 steps? of course ... all spirituality has a link..but..i have to say as someone struggling that it's hard sometimes to make the connection between a personal intervening god that so many rely on and the different approach of buddism.... they are the same..but i find it takes alot of translation to work through as a human with my own .... i dont know...who i am...and when i am in pain and really struggling.....AA is hard. I cant translate the language and stuff when i am sufering and its really really hard...

just trying to tell you where it is for some of us who believe in AA and the 12 steps but struggle...

for what it is worth there it is and i'm only 2 weeks sobr this time so i have4 to say my feelings are slam away...i've been honest and i'm not capable of being tricked into believing like someone else.. i see no reason buddhism and AA cant work but there are two sides of the street..i'll clean mine..would you please try to keep your side clean too

[one of]

Over 30 years ago, a friend of mine still in the Navy, (I was retired) brought me an AA medallion back from Japan where he had been going to meetings. He told me that one of the members said to him, "This is the first thing you Americans have exported to us that works the way you said it was going to. We simply change the word 'God' to 'The Good' and need make no other changes." Love and Blessings - one of

[tommyk]

There is if you look for it.

If it helps you, find it.

I encountered a spiritual awakening, which can be described in any way you like.

That's the beauty of the steps in my eyes.

[one of]

Originally Posted by Puddy

Forgive me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that Dharma meant "purpose" and that fulfilling your dharma meant fulfilling your purpose in life. I don't know that much about it though.

Hi Puddy,

Well, if we are going to throw all our eggs in the basket that there is something more to life than the billion to one possibility ( the chance that Richard Dawkins points to in his book that a tide pool containing amino acids combined with lightning and created the first DNA or RNA molecule) that all is completely meaningless, how many additional purposes to life should one expect there to be?

As MyCoolFitz points out, the Bhudda was pointing out the problem of thinking there was more than one reason for life. Jesus was pointing out the same problem. Since the stoics were teaching something quite similar in Jesus's day, (i.e. "let go and let God") Jesus probably got his awakening from them IMO, and spent the rest of his life trying to get the truth of it across to others.

Bill W. certainly saw the same truth. He filled the Twelve and Twelve with it. His teachings begin with the BigBook®: "The point is that we are willing to grow along spiritual lines." That, Puddy, is the single purpose for which all life is created if in fact it is created.

In the Twelve and Twelve, step 10, third page, Bill has the audacity to write: "It is a spiritual axiom that every time we are disturbed, no matter what the cause, there is something wrong with us." What is it that's wrong? We are selfish and self-centered. We have big egos and therefore have a great deal of ego-neediness. We spend most of our time trying to get our ego-needs filled and protecting our egos from other people's assaults upon it at all costs. This is animal. It is, as the first sentence in step 5 (12&12) states, "natural." And that same sentence also points to the only possible purpose of life. The wise and truthful teachings of daily living reduce the size of all egos. The only question is, am I willing to internalize my daily bread of humbling truths, or will I fight their internalization right to the point of needing to use mental anguish pain killers to manage the pain of that fighting?

With the reduction in size of the ego, the truth of humility takes its place. Slowly, an increment of experience at a time, the wisdom of humility replaces the ignorance of egoism. Read the 2nd paragraph of step 7 and see for yourself what the term, "growing along spiritual lines" meant to Bill W. See how he could state that, "we will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows. Self seeking will slip away."

Today, there's a fellow making himself a multi-millionaire pointing out that the one purpose in living doesn't change, and hopefully, his books will make it possible for those outside 12 step programs to not need to go down wrong roads to the point where they are finally willing to go to any lengths to get off them in order to become willing to grow along spiritual lines. His name is Eckhart Tolle and his book that I read was, "A New Earth." I didn't learn anything new, but would recommend the book to anyone sick and tired of being sick and tired that can't put a finger on why they feel that way. He has his own vocabulary of "spiritual words" but his base is the same. Spiritual Growth is all about getting rid of the ego.

As that growth materializes, the love available to the universe grows. Who needs for there to be any more purpose to life than that? Love and Blessings - one of

[preta]

I certainly dont think Bill W. saw the same truth that Jesus or the Buddha saw. (i dont even think Jesus and the Buddha saw the same truth but thats a different story)
Bill W. found a way for one drunk to help another drunk come to live a spiritual life and quit drinking for good. Thats all. He wasnt a holy man, and to elevate him to such status doesnt really do much good for AA..

[McGowdog]

Glad you made that wonderful point. Now I can go to bed.

Goodnight all.

[one of]

Originally Posted by preta

I certainly dont think Bill W. saw the same truth that Jesus or the Buddha saw. (i dont even think Jesus and the Buddha saw the same truth but thats a different story)
Bill W. found a way for one drunk to help another drunk come to live a spiritual life and quit drinking for good. Thats all. He wasnt a holy man, and to elevate him to such status doesnt really do much good for AA..

Hi preta,

You may be right. My sharing is for people who have a similar IQ to my own, who came to the program with similar pre-sobriety ideas to my own, who are near worshippers of logic as I am, and who are willing to go to any lengths to stay sober despite the many difficulties they might have with the "God concept" as I have done. My sharing obviously won't be of use to those who have a firm and unshakeable belief in a God Who they came to know through participation within one of the 7 or 8 major religions of the world. That's why diversity is valuable, isn't it. I can help a few people with my views, you can help a few people with your views, etc. It keeps the mind of AA always open to new truth. The teaching portion of the BigBook® includes in its final message the words, "We realize we know only a little." Me too, Peta. I realize I know but a little. The unknown, to my belief, is far, far, far, from being a void. The only thing I can do in order to feel honest within myself is to share what seems to me to be the truth. But you are right, I certainly don't know the entire truth any more than does anyone else. All the information is simply not out there yet.

The BigBook® Appendix labelled "Spiritual Experience" speaks to the necessity of maintaining attitudes of Willingness, honesty, and open mindedness." I expect that means something different to you than it does to me. I don't know what may be good for AA and what may be bad, but I do know that not only on these message boards but when I speak at meetings, there are many who have thanked me for sharing whatever it was that I shared that day, and that helps me to believe my open-minded sharing is usually a help, rather than a hindrance. The fact that you felt that my post was elevating Bill W. to the status of whatever it means to be a holy man, doesn't mean that that was my intent. It wasn't. And the same applies to Eckhart Tolle, bless his heart. Love and Blessings - one of