outofthedark2

ok, first, I apologise for intruding but I need some honest answers.
I posted last week about my ex addict, how he just through our family away and started getting high every night with a married CW and how he now says he is so in love with her...they've both Od'd and both have now I suppose fond memories of their "bonding together"
Now word has it that he's going back to Madison VA, which is the 30 day rehab where he went when he got clean just before coming out and professing that he'd always loved me and that now that he was clean, he wanted to start a family with the woman he respected and loved..
OKAY...I may be wrong...the whole last year, weve had virtuallly no contact except for when he's stated a couple of times that he really made a mistake in letting me go...

Have any of you guys "fallen in love" with someone while getting high, only to get clean in rehab and find out you were out of your mind? After you get clean for a bit, do you really start to remember the horrible things you said or did? Do you ever really want the "good woman" back at that point or is it just something you feel you may want back ONLY because you're clean again and think she make come back to "help you again" .
Is it ALL selfish, or do you sometimes really wise up and get clear about what you really had and gave away?

Part of why I'm asking is that I want to be prepared for when and if he DOES call me. I am a christian woman and don't wantto be mean, but part of me wants to just tell him off. Part of me also wants to let him know, I forgive him although that seems too easy for him and what he put me through.
I just want to KNOW...who's the REAL person...was it the few months BEFORE, when he was clean and swore he loved me? I can almost hear him saying "I loved you more than anything...I just knew you didn't deserve to get hurt again and knew the best way to end it was to just give you NO chance to come back and continue to get ****** up over my brokin promises...'
Do I believe that? Were you guys capable of any compassion after you were using again?
What's the best way to handle him? Do you guys look at us as "marks"...as I've now heard so many times? If he calls is it really because he wants to do that eighth step and really FEELS remorse or is it because he has no one else he can turn to who's not an addict and figures I'll STILL BE THERE...like I'm a weak wounded puppy who keeps getting kicked and comes back anyway...do you look at us that way?
And has ANYONE of you EVER stayed clean living with another recovering addict.Is it possible, that he may find the GREAT sex with her and his LOVE was only drug induced and that it wasn't ME?
I know this souunds so pathetic...but My love has never been contingent upon the other person loving me back...Should I just tell him where to go if he calls me to apologise? I want to tell him all the nasty things he did that he probably doesn't remember, but then we just sound like nags instead of the hurt people we are looking for some understanding or explaination....
please help if you can answer any of this? I really appreciate it

jcade

My dear Lady,
Let me say this! I am not a christian but if your gonna wear the armor then you have to be truthfull. Tell him you want nothing to do with him and that he is no longer welcome at your home! Do this for your on good and get all that trash out of your mind and set yourself free.

Your friend,
John

Live

Sorry for my ignorance but have you checked into the anon forums? I think that might be very helpful to you.

Gooch

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ddicts-do.html

teke

FIRST LET ME SAY TO YOU THAT I ADMIRE THE WAY YOU SEEM TO NOT BE AFRAID TO ASK ALL THE QUESTIONS THAT I NEED ANSWERS TO. BEEN MARRIED TO MY AH FOR 20YRS AND ITS BEEN ON AGAIN AND OFF AGAIN THE WHOLE TIME, LIKE YOU, I HAVE TRIED TO HELP AND BE THERE ALL I KNOW HOW. MY AH HAS BEEN IN REHAB AT LEAST 5 TIMES EACH TIME 30 DAY PROGRAMS, HE BEEN ORDERED TO DRUG COURT FOR 18 MOS OF IN-PATIENT-OUT-PATIENT TREATMENT, IN AND OUT OF THE CHURCH, IN AND OUT OF JAIL, EACH TIME HE GOT CLEAN, SEEMS LIKE I BECAME THE GIRL OF HIS DREAMS AGAIN. EACH TIME BEFORE HE WENT IN, HE DID NOT WANT TO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH ME AT ALL, MOST OF THE TIME HE DID NOT EVEN TALK TO ME AND IF HE DID, HE WAS SO MEAN. I AM SURE THERE WERE WOMEN INVOLVED.
WITH THE CLEAN TIME CAME ALL THE PROMISES OF HOW THINGS WERE GOING TO BE DIFFERENT AND HOW SORRY HE WAS AND HOW CLEAR THAT HE COULD SEE THE MISTAKES HE MADE AND HOW HE NEVER WANT TO DO ANYTHING ELSE TO HURT ME AND THE KIDS, BUT GUESS WHAT, IF HE EVER STAYED CLEAN MORE THAN 60 DAYS, I GOT TRICKED. BEFORE LONG HE WAS USING AGAIN AND NOT LONG AFTER, HE WAS BACK TO HIS SAME OLD ADDICTED SELF, JUST A LITTLE WORSE AND WORSE AFTER EACH RELAPSE.
HE'S BEEN GONE NOW ABOUT 6 WKS AND AS FAR AS I KNOW, HE'S NOT TRING TO GET HELP, HE LEFT TELLING ME HE WAS GONNA FIND HIM A WOMAN THAT HAS HIS BACK, AND I BELIEVE THAT THERE HAS TO BE SOME OTHER WOMAN, BUT WHAT CAN I DO. I KNOW THAT IF HE DOES NOT SEEK HELP AND REALLY COMMIT TO A PROGRAM, THAT WON'T LAST LONG. SOONER OR LATER, SHE'LL GET TIRED OR HE WILL ONE, EVEN THOUGH HE SAID THAT HE WAS NEVER COMING BACK, I AM NOT SURE ABLLUT THAT. ONE TIME HE WAITED ALMOST 3YR, HE MESSED AROUND AND SAW ME IN THE CAR WITH AN OLD FRIEND OF THE FAMILY AND HE HAD A FIT. I LIKE A DUMMY, TOOK HIM BACK AGAIN.
I AM A CHRISTIAN WOMAN TOO AND I HAVE HONORED MY VOWS FOR THIS LONG, BUT THINK THAT MY AH HAVE GOTTEN COMFORTABLE WITH THE FACT THAT I WILL ALWAYS BE THERE. HE KNOWS MY LEVEL OF COMMITMENT TO THE LORD AND THINKS,WHETHER HE IS AWARE OF IT OR NOT,THAT HE USES THAT AS A WAY TO MANIPULATE ME WHEN ALL ELSE HAS FAILED. SAYS THINGS LIKE " you are SUPPOSE TO BE A CHRISTIAN" AND I WENT FOR THAT THINKING THAT I WAS DOING WHAT GOD WOULD HAVE ME TO DO. WELL HERE I AM 20 YRS LATER STILL GOING THROUGH THE SAME STUFF AND I REALIZE THAT GOD WOULD NOT HAVE ME TO LIVE MY ONLY LIFE THIS WAY. I HAD TO ASK MYSELF IF I WAS MAKING AN IDOL OUT OF THIS MAN. I DON'T KNOW WHERE TO GO FROM HERE BUT I DO KNOW THAT IN CORINTHIANS IT SAYS THAT" IF THE UNBELIEVER WANTS TO GO, TO LET HIM GO, YOU ARE NO LONGER IN BONDAGE, I HAVE CALLED YOU TO PEACE". YES I KNOW THAT IT HURTS SO BAD AND IS SO UNFAIR BUT IF I CAN PUT MY TRUST IN THE LORD AND KNOW THAT NOTHING HAPPENS IN LIFE WITHOUT HIS PERMISSION. THAT HE HAS A BETTER PLAN THAN WE CAN THINK OR IMAGINE.
MAYBE GOD IS TRING TO SAVE THE BOTH OF US AND SHOW US A BETTER LIFE. AS HARD AS IT MAYBE, I KNOW THAT I HAVE TO LOSE MY LIFE IN ORDER TO GAIN A LIFE.
NOW I HOPE YOU DO HAVE TO LOSE AS MUCH TIME OUT OF YOUR LIFE TRING TO BE THERE AS I HAVE. DON'T KNOW HOW LONG YOUVE BEEN GOING THROUGH THIS, I STARTED AT 32 AND IS NOW 52 AND I HATE THAT I WAITED SO LONG. I STILL BELIEVE THAT HE'LL ONE DAY GET CLEAN BUT I THINK THAT IT WILL BE HARD IF HE STILL HAS AN ENABLER. DON'T WANT TO DISENCOURAGE YOU AT ALL, JUST SHARING MY EXPERIENCE, AND I WILL KEEP CHECKING YOUR POST CAUSE I NEED THOSE ANSWERS THAT YOU ASKED FOR MYSELF.

Phinneas

Please post this in the Naranon forum. I really think the relies you get there will be the most helpful.

Even though it is the same disease, each of us have different personalities and circumstances. I can't help you get into his mind any more than I can help you get into the mind of anyone else. It just doesn't work that way. A drug may be a drug may be a drug... but an addict is NOT an addict is an addict.

The healthiest thing for you is to focus on YOU. Take care of your needs and move on to a happy life.

lightseeker

I am a recovering alcoholic and invovled with a recovering crack addict. I hear a huge amount of concern about your addict and anticipating what he may or may not be feeling and saying. How are YOU feeling and what do you need to say? I agree that a good place to seek your answers is in the anon forums. You will receive the support and wisdom of those in your shoes. The recovering addicts here can't get you inside his head because noone can do that. The only head you can get into (ever) is your own. Good luck and hope to see you over in Naranon!

Luckyv2

My name is Vic as you know, I am an addict! You ask the question who's the REAL person? We are who we are!...We are both real, the one that is clean and the one that is using. We are two in one. Each of us have two different sides, the one that loves, understand, forgives, cares, etc,. and the one that don't give a sh!t about anyone other than ourselves. We are in fact two people and if you would read our literature it talks about the Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. Each of us have that in us.

I am sure that he does love you when he is clean! Most of us clean are very caring, loving, individuals. When we are into active addiction, we don't give a rats ass about anyone. It is all about us. I know that you probably will never understand, WHY, because you are not an addict. Yes I think that you need people that understand YOU, just as much as WE (addicts) need people that understand US. I think that you might want to search for answers for YOU, don't let the addict control you, take care of yourself.

Vic

outofthedark2

Teke, I'll be sending you a private message...I hope today is a better day for you

Thanks VIC and everyone else for your response. YES I READ a lot on the ANON forums, but unfortunately, to ME anyway, when I LOVE someone, part of my loving that person is also trying to understand them. Although the ANON forums are ENCOURAGING and provide a place of a sort of 'comraderie and fellow-suffering", it gives me no insight into what ADDICTS are feeling or why they do what THEY do.
Maybe I'm wrong, but to me, if an addict wants to ask a question of a person who isn't one.... to understand a different way of thinking...that can be a productive thing. I understand in my case I may very well be obssessing a bit...as well..
It hurts me to know that if all of us who are NOT addicts just say" you know what, they are just NOT HUMAN, you'll never understand them because their minds are f'd up, let them rot"..if we accept that...then it really is the "us against you" mentality. The reason for much historical injustice, homicide and perpetual racism and predjudice has come of such thinking. "Don't understand THEM...they're sub human...not worth it."
Am I the only one who sees the sadness in such thinking?

What really saddens me is that it seems that even addicts themselves say to MOVE oon and get as far away from another addict as possible. But what about when you are clean and WANT to live a normal life? That's what my EX wanted. How was I to know that when HE WAS CLEAN he was apparently still "just an addict" with addict thinking and NOT TO BELIEVE HIM WHEN HE SAID HE LOVED ME? Or for that matter, not to believe anything he said....Was I the fool for believing him...did he know all along he was conning me, or was it real...if it wasn't real, I would like to know and HE sure would never admit it wasn't....
Not being an addict, I can't relate to the "I love you, I would die without you" one minute, to 'I could care less whether you're alive and in my life or not, and as a matter of fact would probably even kill you myself for my next hit"
to the "now that I'm sober again I realize how ****** up i was and I'm sorry again"
Part of YOUR program is to make amends but how can we , the ones who have been destroyed by the very people we loved and believed in, believe your 'amends" are real if we don't know how you really think, sober and high both and how the two affect each other?

I don't know...I'm really sorry if I've offended ANYONE by asking questions...It's just not in my nature to "chalk" HIM up and say well **** him, he's just a messed up addict and you just can't understand them unless you're one of them. My mind and heart won't accept that sort of closure. And I can't numb them them to stop asking these quetions, believe me I wish I could...ITS SO PAINFUL...but if I can't numb it with a drug or alcohol, the best I can do to get through it is to try and understand it. Like a movie that's sooo good and complex, you love it, but then the ending comes, stops short with no explanation. You want to play it again so that maybe you can see what you missed that would've made your last two hours on the couch worth while...and if you can't even after playing it over and over , you decide to go directly to the MAKER of the movie or at least his friends who understood it a bit better...maybe then THEY could explain it to you...
I thank all of you for listening and once again I'm sorry if my posts were unwelcome.
take care all

Luckyv2

You didn't offend me and I for one am glad that you are here. I suppose it is hard for you to understand that we are in fact two people in one that is just my opinion. I have not said for you to get away from him I don't think, I know how an addict is because I am one. I know it is hard so I am going to tell you a little story OK..this is my life here that I am talking about, not a story but part of me, and yes it pains this addict to think of it sometimes.

In the year of 2002 I was busted for possession of meths. Now let me back up for the two years prior to that both me and the wife of my children (now ex) used almost everyday. I got busted and I always told her that if anything ever happened that I would take the blame, for my children needed someone to be there. Now during that period, I had other relations as well as her. The drug makes you do things that "NORMALLY" you wouldn't do or maybe it gives you more false courage to do the things you would like to do but can not because of the guilt and shame of it all.

Anyway, one night I walked into the house, and my wife was laying on the couch. She said "Vic, if you love me or the children, you will give me whatever you have in your pocket." I proceeded to go into the bathroom, did a big blast of METH and then I came out. When I came out she said "YOU"RE an A$$HOLE!" I said "NO, I am the biggest A$$HOLE and never forget it!", then I went downstairs and proceeded to do more dope. Now that was early January of 2002. I really don't remember anything in the months of Sept. 2001 Thur Dec 2001. I don't even really remember too much about 9-11 .

I left town to get clean again, but truly I believe that I was running to Texas where my sister lives to change my name. Sure that will fix it huh?! Anyway I got busted again for possession of METH. When I got out of jail I went back home, the kids came running out, the dog came running out but no wife came running out! I went in and she said Vic I don't want you here, I am through. Now I am here to tell you that if it wasn't for her (NOW EX) I probably wouldn't even be alive today. She had to give me something and that was life. I know that if she would have let me back in to her and the children's life that I would have kept doing what I have been doing.

I have struggled yes, but I have the desire, and hope, to keep plugging away at this until I get it right, if there is such a thing. Any day clean for an addict is a miracle. And I also know that the sober/clean Vic wouldn't have said those things, or acted that way back then. I have changed so much, and not always to the good, but have to keep trying one day at a time.

You know that as far as I am concerned you don't have to leave this forum, and I don't mind you being here. I can not speak for anyone else, but I can speak for me. Now mind you, I still am and will always be two different people, I have to work really hard to keep the one down. The only way to do that is to keep going to meetings, working on me, the twelve steps, sponsorship, etc. One thing also before I close, those amends that you are talking about. Sometimes the only amends that we can make, is to stay clean Just For Today. anyway

Sending good thoughts your way.

Vic

Didn't realize I wrote a book

BigSis

Hi Out...

My name is BigSis and I am an alcoholic. I stopped drinking/drugging in 1983 but did not get into a 12-step program until my 2 children developed raging addictions.... so I guess I am an Alanonic Alcoholic.

Anon forums do provide fellowship/fellow-suffering and comraderie... but if that is all you are seeing there, perhaps you might consider reading a bit more.

What I have discovered, is that as the addicts are addicted to their drug of choice, *I* am also addicted... to the addict.

To everything they say...to what they do... to how they think. When I was active in my disease of codependency, every waking moment was filled with my thoughts of my children and if they were using, who they were with and how they were obtaining drugs.

My LIFE became one long saga of trying to "get" them clean.

What I have learned in Alanon is that all I was doing was increasing MY pain, without having ANY...NADA... NO .... effect on whether the addicts in my life used, or not.

What I also know, is that I was not ready for Alanon, even when I found out what it "really" is (as opposed to MY idea of it - which was some sort of team work approach to curing alcoholism... grin)... I was not ready for it until I HAD tried many things. Until all those many things failed. Until my PAIN was so great and my tool bag so empty I had NO OTHER CHOICE.

I would love it if you did not have to travel down the road I did, but I understand that each of us has our own path, and if that is where you gotta go... then that is where you gotta go.

Please keep the Anon forums, or even better, face to face Alanon or Naraon meetings in mind if you ever need some additional support AND ideas on how to live a happier life. Alanon is a program of 12 steps, only one of which even mentions a drug. It is a program of introspection and learning and much, much more than "only" support.

I do wish you the best.

outofthedark2

Thanks so much Vic. Hehehe...I appreciate your "book"...God knows I can write quite the novel myself. Whats funny is that after I left my ex, I wrote him a SIX page letter and put it in his mail box. He hates to read but he actually took the time to read every page and respond (not exactly, he was vague on everything I had asked him, but he DID read it).
Everyone on the ANON forum thats written their addict a letter have all said "don't bother, they won't read it, will tear it up, won't give a **** what you have to say".....what really bothered me was that 6months after we were apart and he was heavily using, I stopped over there..out of weakness, and spent the night. (this was after he had been with HER, using all the time) After he left in the morning..he still had his job at the time which I believe he has now lost...I looked in his dresser drawer and there was my letter (as well as a letter my daughter had written him the night he first relapsed after rehab, about how we loved him and believed in him still..)..had them rolled up together and bound with one of my hair ribbons....
I never told him i found them...I assumed since he had told me we were so INCOMPATABLE, and that he had moved on that those letters would have been tossed..especially since he's not an emotional man to begin with...
I keep wondering why he kept them if he didn't really love us and got rid of us...but then I know now that he's FALLEN IN LOVE WITH HER, he's probably gotten rid of them for sure.
I just want to know how to handle him if he does call, you know? I know I could never trust him enough to take him back in an intimate sort of way but I MISS HIM.
You said your wife had to let you get to that point...that if she'd stayed it would have been detrimental to your recovery....I was gone the week he told me to leave, because I knew I couldn't subject myself or my daughter to him and his using behaviour...even after he begged me not to go the day I was leaving. And I believe if he's going into rehab again, he's hit a "soft" bottom again. You know, he's lost his job, or his keeping it may be contingant upon entering a rehab...or worse, he's so in love with this married cw that maybe they're both getting clean so they can be together...dunno...
After you got clean, did you want to be with your wife again? Did you ever actually care for or fall in love with another addict and think that your love for one another would help you get clean?
I just don't want to be the fool again. Part of me says if he calls me again clean it's only because he can't be around HER because she's using, not because he's clear headed and thinking "man, what was I THINKING, being with a married CW when I had something good with Michelle?"
He he he...and when he was clean and around ME and professing love, he was thinking " man, what am I thinking being with Michelle when I could be out with CW gettinh high and having fun!" Arrrgh.....
Vic, if he's with this girl and he's getting high every night...which also makes the sex soooo good, why would he ever want to get clean and have a normal relationship?
He's told me that he's HAPPY, been having FUN...
Does he really think she's gonna get clean for him and leave her kids and husband...is the drug that powerful that he can't see he might not actually want her when he's clean, just like he didn't want me when he was using?
ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGHHH...here I am rambling again, asking questions that he himself probably couldn't answer...I just want to slap him with the stupid stick and tell him to WAKE up. But then...maybe I'm THE ONE who's been asleep.....

Moontime

Hello- All I can say is that my perception on everything changed when I got clean. What I thought I loved and what I thought I really cared for was an illusion. We do an H&I meeting every thursday night at the Treatment Center in Madison, VA (Boxwood) I hope your ex listens to the message we bring there.

Locked_Maze

I'm a woman, however in the past year of myself using pain killers, & B/F is an addict before I, he is on Methadone, he got hooked on opiates due to back blew out, had an operation and his neck they can't touch for he can become paralized SP? He abuses the Oxy cottin SR, this has made him sick for it eats at the Methadone, so he told me...Life being both addicts and active can be a nightmare, some get along well and play the Game, take care of eachother, a saying don't get mad at the addict, but the game we all play in, in your situation this man is into another woman who is an addict, love is the last thing on any addicts mind that is active, the drug is #1, my advise is get on with your life and forget him, pray for him for he will need it. Your honest and sound like a wonderful woman, you will meet another man and love again, perhaps someone who shares your faith and religion, one who is not an addict, trust me when I say "Before" I was an addict I dealt with 4 years of B/F using and I dealt with it by not being around him, I knew I could not stop him, women were the last thing on his mind, sex was too...every addict is different the only thing we share is the chase and love hate realationship with the drug of our addiction and the addictional mind has no logic, so your ex maybe thinking in odd ways, such as an OD he had with this woman, he sounds like he really needs help ASAP, for someone to embrace death such as this or anyway really has other issues too much for most people to take on.

I wish you luck and to be happy, let go and live your life and pray for him...

cinderellawkids

OUt of the dark,

Do yourself a favor and focus on you. He's not himself or able to think clearly right now. He does not know what he wants or feels.

The best way for you to find peace is just let go.

Letting go is not a permanent thing, its for now. Live in the moment.


If you love someone set them free,,,,,,,

Please see the poem in naranon, about the hunger of addiction

GeorgiaPeach

I agree with Cindarella all the way! My husband is an addict and when he was using heavily, he could have cared less about me and at that time I didn't know he was using so I thought that he was just a horible person and that I had made a mistake marrying him. Once he opened up to me about his addiction and we started getting help, he is a different person. He still uses now but he is going to a clinic and he is using enough so that he doesn't go into withdrawals, not to get high anymore. I am hoping that after his treatment that he will be the same loving person that I fell in love with but he hasn't done all the things that your AH has done so I say, put up with what you feel comfortable putting up with and take care of yourself and your daughter. If you let go for now and see what happens and you can accept him afterwards if he comes to you then do it but if after you have found your own peace and you don't want to take those chances then DON'T. You must set boundaries for him and consequences for his behavior! Stand up for yourself and your daughter if that is not the road that you want to travel. Be strong. I have read that most of the time they regret what they have done whiloe in active use but sometimes they don't so you must be prepared for either one but just be strong and take care of you and your daughter first!!!!!!!

SaTiT

My ESH
As a recovering addict and been in relationships with recoverying addicts.
There's not a quick answer or a cure all.
Just becuase we stop using drugs or alcohol dosen't mean our problems
go away. We have an opportunity to resolve problems or deal with them,
now that we're not wacked out of our mind.
My experience/relationship with an addict in recovery working thier program
is an amazing experience. I wouldn't change it.
Not perfect, but do able or manageable

On the other hand, my experince with an addict that relapsed or not working thier program has been emmence.lol
This requires me to put my program through the acid test. Most of the time my ass falls off and lots of heart aches.

As an addict being clean and sober is not the easiest way for me to live.
Unconditional love is easier said than done, being in a relationship.
It can get confussing at times.
If you are seriouse about recovery...get into a relationship.lol

But there is God/HP...the grace that's been given to me.
I try to pass that on as much as I can, but I'm not a saint...honestly.

Anyways, the most important relationship i can ever have
is with my HP. It is everything. It's whats keeping me together.
It's the love that i need. Perhaps if I'm humble at times, theres
peace and love that gets pass on.

I'm powerless over drugs and alcohol and my life became unmanageable.
The principles are the same.
I'm powerless over peaple places and things and me life became unmanageable.
I do not lack will power,....trust me.

The only person I can work on or try to change is myself.
God willing.
I'm still alive, clean and sober....not as crazy or nutz.
So there you go, i must be doing something rigth
or perhaps God is doing something I can't do for myself.

Serenitry
Acceptences
Wisdom